To all those on this "He Caved" trip ...

[Kweli4Real]

Let me ask a couple of questions:

Do you have a job? If not, are you really saying that you and your family would rather starve, than give millionaire more money?

If you do have a job, are you really saying that you would rather let others starve so that you (or the President or the Party or whomever) can make a bold, principled statement?

And finally, one of the biggest criticisms I/we have had about the teapartiers is that they are so willing to deny other, what they would claim for themselves. For those placing principle (but really pride and ego) over people ... living, breathing people, are we/you really any different than the hypocrisy filled teapartiers?

No one likes the deal that was cut; but I would ask that before you write your scathing "He Caved" posts, consider it is easy to stand on principle when you cannot see yourself suffering the negative effects of your stance.

[DainBramaged]

1. meh

:eyes:

[Scurrilous]

2. He caved! He caved!

Get w/ the program. :P

[Cosmocat]

16. He caved ...

and I like him a lot ...

Folded bullets to an off suit 2 and 7 ...

The level of cave on this cannot be overstated ...

[PBS Poll-435]

53. He caved! He caved! He caved!

Just wanted in on the action.

[Hello_Kitty]

3. I'm unemployed and don't qualify for UI

But the one part of this deal I like is the UI extensions that will help other people in my position so you can shove the guilt trip. Why don't you pay attention to all the valid reasons people have for being pissed about this and address them instead of engaging in cheap emotional blackmail?

Unrec.

[area51]

9. +1 n/t

[MurrayDelph]

38. I'm unemployed and DO qualify for the extension to UI

and I still wish he hadn't caved.

[GoCubsGo]

66. Ditto.

I'd rather see that money being put toward putting people, like myself, back to work. And, I'm sure all those whose families might allegedly "starve" would rather have decent permanent incomes than collect the pittance unemployment pays.

[MadHound]

4. Sorry, but Obama didn't have to give away the farm

He could have taken care of the unemployed by using the unspent stimulus funds.

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9710114>

Instead, he gave away the farm, for no good reason. The real kicker on this is that McConnell is making noise about forcing Obama to pay for the UI extensions out of the unspent stimulus funds anyway.

[Jackpine Radical]

5. You do realize, don't you, that the extensions do not apply

to those who have been out of work for 99 weeks or more?

You know that, right?

You think we're supposed to be happy that he managed to buy a little time for the newly unemployed, but nothing for those whose jobs crashed 99 weeks abo?

[alfredo]

45. I think he knows the deal will falter. All it will take is one

Republican Senator to gum up the works. There are some who will not accept a temporary extension of the tax cuts. We will have to wait and see. Bachmann is going to try to torpedo the deal in the house.

[DearAbby]

74. Side note...

I love how Bachman is becoming the Joe Lieberman of the GOP


*Makes me smile

:evilgrin:

*Makes me smile

[alfredo]

75. She's had a taste of power, and it is like blood in the

water to the shark.

[Egnever]

51. Yes you should be happy those people were helped

or is it just about you?

[Jackpine Radical]

54. Right. It's all about me.

Actually, I have been quite fortunate in my life and have never collected unemployment.

But I sure as hell have a lot of compassion for the long-term unemployed. My point is that Obama got far too little for what he traded away. And it now looks like Mitch is gonna make him pay for it out of the unspent stimulus funds, which he could have done in the first place with no crap like this giveaway happening.

[Dappleganger]

60. Exactly.

I keep saying this and nobody seems to pay attention. This bill completely ignores the current 99'ers.

[aquart]

Starving is off the table. THIS YEAR.

But, because of that huge giveaway, it is on the table for next year because food stamp programs are already being cut back in state after state.

So, yes, HE CAVED. My mom has started calling him Spaghetti.

[LibraLiz1973]

10. Exactly. This is a double whammy.

People are so stupid they aren't noticing all the state budget cuts that are making this an even worse "deal".

[Jackpine Radical]

50. Starving is ON the table for those unemployed more than 99 weeks.

That is the greatest shame. Even 13 months of UE for 2 years of payoffs to the rich pales by comparison.

[LibraLiz1973]

6. Excuses excuses.

He campaigned on this. Promise broken. Again.

We don't even TRY to fight back against the Rethugs.

In fact, I think that had Obama said Fuck no to their shit agenda, we would be in a position of power.
We could have made this what it NEEDS to be: a war on criminally uncaring republican assholes.
Do you REALLY think they would have let 6 MILLION people lose their benefits?
That was a guarantee to lose in 2012. They would have caved. Sad thing is, we caved first. As usual.

[Goblinmonger]

7. The party in power let those two unrelated things be tied together.

They aren't. They shouldn't be. The unemployment benefits should have been extended and the tax cuts not. That isn't impossible.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

28. That's worth reiterating!

These two things were UTTERLY unrelated, and the President, via profound weakness, allowed them to be fraudulently conjoined.

It is the epitome of hypocrisy to think that every time the struggling working class in this country gets a crumb, the rich must get a twelve course meal. It simply isn't true.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

39. Dupe Self-delete n/t

[Supersedeas]

40. a great question for the leadership in Congress to field

[Bok_Tukalo]

8. For all those who wanted a second stimulus, you now may have one

It is just the opposite of the last in the tax cuts vs spending increases category. But it will probably fall just as 800 billion hard on the American Full Faith & Credit Card.

[ladjf]

11. If the rich were taxed at a fair progressive rate, the debt would

disappear, jobs would be created and the middle class would begin to expand again. This compromise is totally counter productive for the American people even though it does have some help to the currently unemployed.

As long as the rich keep getting larger and larger percentages of the wealth, the people are going down the tubes to abject poverty.

[midnight]

12. The questions you ask don't begin to show the disparity impact

of making people choose food and more profits for the elite or more profits for the elite and no food.... Can't we expect something more from our elected Democrat leaders?

[BlueJac]

13. I don't have a job.............

haven't for years now. I want all tax cuts ended. This Republican bullshit is destroying this country.


Yes he caved, and that is his MO. Obama has no balls or he is a Republican wannabe! Don't tell me we can't have an extension of unemployment and end the tax cuts at the same time. We still control congress and the Presidency. There is no need to put things together so someone can leverage you into their position, period.

[PassingFair]

14. "Trip"....you're tripping if you can't see this for what it is.

Smoke and mirrors.

[Dawgs]

15. I have a job and I'd like to keep it. I'd also like to see those on unemployment have one.

Widening the gap between the rich and poor does nothing to create one new job. In fact, it makes it worse.

And, why do you assume this is the only way to get what we want?

There are other, much better, options.

[EstimatedProphet]

17. You caught us. That's exactly what we're saying.

We're all secretly hoping that everyone who is unemployed starves to death in the streets.

Had you looked into this, you would have realized that the original plan that went through the House would have given EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY A TAX CUT. All of them. Every one of them. The repubs canceled that, because they want money only for themselves.

But instead, you decided to use a cheap ad hominem attack against us because you disagree. Nice job.

[jp11]

18. Way to make assumptions.

Got a job, if I didn't I wouldn't say I and my family want to starve over giving millionaires more money. I can further add I refuse the idea that the only option if I am unemployed is give millionaires a tax break to not starve.

Again got a job, no I wouldn't want others to starve so that a statement can be made, reject that the only way not to let them starve is to cave.

Thanks for trying to say I am like hypocrisy filled members of the teaparty and that I place pride and ego over real people.

I'd ask you to keep your wild assumptions based on nothing but your own ideas to yourself since you seem to only accept your own views on what is/was possible negating anything else you don't like.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Loge23]

20. Speaking of caves...

Lest anyone forget, the country is in an enormous hole - partly dug by funding a ultra-modern military force that spends significant sums on chasing people in caves (mostly unsuccessfully, I may add).
There used to be many threads on these pages pointing out how the Idiot Bush waged these wars without the sense of a shared sacrifice from the American people (except, of course, for those who actually fight this thing). We just bailed (OK, caved) on installing that sense of shared responsibility.
The ill-advised and unfunded tax cuts were meant to be temporary and so they should of been - all of them. BY all accounts, the upper tier cuts (>250K) will add an unnecessary and thoroughly avoidable estimated $60B a year to the deficit. That portion could of been the horse-trading for the unemployment benefits. Instead, in his ever-present attempt to be all things to all people and avoid conflict at all costs, Obama has stamped his own seal on what will eventually be remembered in history as where it all went wrong for the U.S.

[hay rick]

21. Pay the ransom!

And pay it again in 13 months when this deal expires. There are no good choices here, but I think this is one of the worst. My wife collected for 99 weeks and now gets nothing. I understand what having the benefits means to a family and what not having them means.

Accepting the payoff to help the unemployed for the next 13 months is also an agreement to allow the continued looting of our society by the uber-rich and adds increased-deficit fuel to the cut-Social-Security fire that the reich wing is busy building. Taking a stand in the future will only be harder and more expensive.

Yeah, he caved.

[SidDithers]

22. Always easier to be principled with someone else's life, eh?...nt

Sid

[Kweli4Real]

62. Exactly ...

And then get all offended when someone calls you on it.

[Davis_X_Machina]

23. Every revolution...

...demands, and claims innocent victims, but in the long sweep of history, their sacrifice is necessary, if that's what it takes to finish off the GOP.

I am sure if we asked them, those so inconvenienced would admit as much.

One question -- what's the best memorial to them? Commemorative stamp, or something tasteful and not too showy, on the Mall in Washington?

I'm torn.

Lenin is alive, well, and posting on DU.

[rurallib]

24. Jesus Christ. The Admin had 2 years to prepare for this

and they let themselves get held hostage????

[EmeraldCityGrl]

29. Riiight. Notice when these developments occur, Obama always

sounds as if he didn't see it coming. I guess with everything we know about the
American and Global financial meltdown, it never occurred to Obama the unemployment
rate would still be high.Surprise, surprise, surprise.

[closeupready]

25. Unrecced

n/t

[EmeraldCityGrl]

26. Using pathetic emotional blackmail to cover OB's ass.

Let's reward the very people responsible for the starving masses. Repukes sold American's
security during the bush years when they escalated the Obama wars ( yes they are now his wars)
and hoarded the wealth partially with the soon to be Obama Tax Cuts. A strong leader with a long term
plan for recovery doesn't resort to this type of bribery. Obama is not a leader, he's a spokesman
for the corporate elite.

[TBF]

31. +1 nt

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

33. Agree. I've been posting that everywhere

We became emotionally blackmailed by our own rhetoric about 2 million unemployed left to starve to death at Christmas if they don't get their benefits extended. I've been through this process. Each time I got kicked off because the Republicans wanted to grandstand, benefits were extended within a week or two *retroactively*. (Full disclosure: I face losing my benefits if they are not extended.)

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

36. I should add...

Yesterday was December 6th. Congress hasn't yet to go on recess.

[treestar]

48. This is a reward to Republicans?

Hey, they'd have more starving masses. No unemployment at all. No taxes for the rich. To Republicans, the rich deserve it all because they work hard.

What bribery? The US Senate is subject to bribery if the opposing party does anything? Does this apply when the Democrats do the same thing? When Bush was President, did you expect the Senate Democrats to do what he wanted or be guilty of "bribery?"

[emilyg]

52. +100

[Individualist]

27. No sale.

Fuck DLC.

[neverforget]

30. The unemployment benefits expire in 13 months so he has to renegotiate

this bullshit again! What are the Republicans going to get out of him then? And the topping on the this shit sandwich is that the tax cuts expire in 2 years! What a deal! :eyes:

[Iggo]

32. He caved.

[WilliamPitt]

34. Derp.

[DainBramaged]

41. Double derp

I agree (hows the non-smoking going?)

[WilliamPitt]

42. One week today.

:)

[DainBramaged]

44. Good on you!!!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[spanone]

35. he spelunked

[donheld]

37. So that's what it's come to?

Give the billionaires more money or we're gonna let the peasants starve.

[tpsbmam]

43. How about Obama fucking fight it out instead of CAVING like he's always done?

How about he shout from the rooftops about what the Rethuglicans were advocating and why? Why was every Democrat not at microphones in their states calling the state's Rethuglicans out by name and informing voters about the Rethuglican ploy to keep taxes low for the megawealthy......and themselves?

Yea, he fucking caved.

[Kweli4Real]

65. Isn't that a little backwards ...

Wouldn't the approach best be for PRESIDENT Obama shouting from the rooftops about what the Rethuglicans were advocating and why? (which he has done ... as much as a president can do and maintain the dignity of the office)

And then for every Democrat not at microphones in their states calling the state's Rethuglicans out by name and informing voters about the Rethuglican ploy to keep taxes low for the megawealthy......and themselves? (Which they haven't come close to doing until today)

And then, based on the first two occuring, PRESIDENT Obama can fucking fight it out instead of having to compromise.

A sitting president can raise holy hell when he has 100% support of his party's delegation's support. But a sitting president cannot afford to lose a fight, especially when he loses because his own party doesn't support him.

[KansasVoter]

46. Wow, short sighted as usual!

[Kweli4Real]

67. No ...

reality-based, as usual.

Millions of starving people don't give a damn about the hundreds eating steak. They can only afford that luxury once they are no longer facing starvation.

[treestar]

47. They are convinced of their simplistic middle school playground metaphor

That had Obama just clocked them all and beaten them to a pulp, they'd "respect" him and presumably, now be willing to vote in single payer, 100% corporate taxation, an immediate end to all war - Republicans would do that, because they would respect the President's toughness if he just walked away from any deal.

If things are that simple, they don't have to read too much and worry about too many details or stressful balancing of factors and use of human judgment. Kind of like the way the far right looks at things.

[Kweli4Real]

56. I keep saying ...

that the left seems to want, not a president or a democratic leader, but a dictator or a messiah.

[Kweli4Real]

57. I keep saying ...

that the left seems to want, not a president or a democratic leader, but a dictator or a messiah.

[Kweli4Real]

58. I keep saying ...

that the left seems to want, not a president or a democratic leader, but a dictator or a messiah.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. Would you prefer, "Surrendered"?, "Sold out"? "Folded"? "Collaborated"?

[BzaDem]

55. I think the problem is the incorrect description, not the word used. n/t

[Rex]

59. He caved.

As a zillion other people here have pointed out.

[RetroLounge]

61. unrec for more BS spin

:puke:

RL

[DearAbby]

63. You assume the GOP wouldn't have been pressured

to cave themselves? Only Democrats bend over and grab their ankles correct? You don't believe the GOP would have been pressured by Public Opinion?

How do you stand up to Bullies? Do you bend over and grab your ankles or do you phucking stand up to them once and for all?

[Kweli4Real]

69. Would you be willing to bet [b]your[/b] ability to eat and the roof ...

over your head on them "caving"?

[FrenchieCat]

64. Actually, he's been braver than most........

He knew the "base" would be totally outraged,
and yet, he thought more of the millions (98% of Americans)that will be affected by
the tax cuts expiring as well as those who would be denied unemployment extensions.

The cowards are the ones that whine on forum boards, and in essence
don't really care, but only pretend to.

[Greyhound]

68. Could you please cram a couple more false analogies and logical fallacies into your post?

And no I don't have income, but starvation is not the only alternative.

And it is the lack of principle that has yielded this disaster. And yes, I have personally suffered an absurd number of negative consequences for standing on mine.

:kick: & U

[Kweli4Real]

72. No income ...

and yet you have internet access. Yeah, right. I guess the public libraries are open late in your part of the world.

[Greyhound]

76. Yes. No income and internet access. right here in the house.

I'll give you every detail you want just as soon as you put your name and address on the board.

Oh, and yes the computer is mine, and I've got clothes too. I guess I'm not really poor, right?

[Greyhound]

77. Now, about this BS post you made, got any answer?

Maybe you want to start with how there's nothing between employment and starvation? No?

[Greyhound]

79. What? Post your reich-wing crap and then run away? How typical. n/t

[Jakes Progress]

70. If you think that your silly analogies are real

then you probably couldn't have done any better than Obama did.

[Kweli4Real]

73. Stop the madness ...

Ask the next person whose U/C benefits are set to continue how well PRESIDENT Obama has done. And then ask him/her whether they would trade this small measure of security in order that the wealthy don't get a tax extension.

[Jakes Progress]

71. If you think that your silly analogies are real

then you probably couldn't have done any better than Obama did.

[Milo_Bloom]

78. Oh stop with this silly spin already.

This UI issue has come up several times in the past couple of years and each time the GOP caved without the dems having to give up ANYTHING.

Do you understand that the GOP had MORE to lose in letting UI expire than the dems?

Do you realize that extending benefits for 13 months only maintains the status quo?

He gave them EVERYTHING and got NOTHING THEY WEREN'T GOING TO GIVE ANYWAY in return.


in short.. HE CAVED!