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White House: Social Security trust fund will not lose revenue

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Frank Booth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 02:35 PM
Original message
White House: Social Security trust fund will not lose revenue
The proposed Social Security tax cut would apply to virtually every working American. For one year they would pay 4.2 percent of their income, instead of 6.2 percent, to the government retirement program, fattening U.S. paychecks by $120 billion in 2011.

Someone earning $40,000 a year would receive a $800 benefit, and a $70,000 earner would save $1,400, officials said. More than three-fourths of all Americans pay more in these so-called payroll taxes than in federal income taxes.

The White House said money from other sources would be shifted so the Social Security trust fund loses no revenue.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101207/ap_on_bi_ge/us_tax_cuts


Assuming this is true (and I know it hasn't been safe to assume much of anything with this administration), I don't see a problem with the 2 year cut on payroll taxes.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, great, so they're going to play with numbers, and presto chango, no deficit!
Edited on Tue Dec-07-10 02:37 PM by closeupready
:eyes:
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why? Was it ON THE TABLE?
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haikugal Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. In Two Years
Edited on Tue Dec-07-10 02:44 PM by haikugal
do you think the Repugs will raise the tax again? I doubt it...this is part of a strategy to get to SS. (sorry I was responding to the OP)
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. This is 100% correct, thanks.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. That's exactly what it is.
Done even more cravenly than usual.
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xloadiex Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's also going to fatten the employers
Because they are not going to have to match those funds. Why should employers give people raises when the government is already giving them a break? They'll just line their pockets once again.
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. The trick will be letting that tax expire, which will be impossible for our leaders.
Just imagine this huge debate in two years during an election. No president as unpopular as Obama is going to want to "raise" taxes.

Read Nancy Altman's analysis:

Given that unwillingness to raise taxes by less than a nickel on every dollar earned over $1 million, I find it unfathomable that a more conservative Congress, in two years, in an election year, will increase the payroll tax by 2 percent on the very first dollar, and every other dollar up to the cap, earned by virtually every single worker in the country. Consequently, I think we have to assume that the payroll tax holiday will be extended beyond the two years the president is proposing and quite likely could become permanent.

That means that the federal government will have to continue to transfer $120 billion to the Social Security trust funds each and every year even as it has to transfer more and more interest payments as the trust funds continue to grow and as interest rates return to more normal levels. Unless Congress acts to restore Social Security to solvency, the Treasury bonds held in trust will have to be redeemed, again on top of that new $120 billion transfer from the general fund, starting fifteen years from now, assuming Congress even continues to make the $120 billion every year before that point. These dollars will be competing with dollars for defense, environmental protection, education, school lunches, Food Stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, SSI, Pell grants for low income college students, and every other good and service financed by the federal government.

A permanent two percent cut in Social Security contributions doubles the 75 year projected shortfall. Scrapping the cap (eliminating the $106,800 maximum on earnings), tonally eliminates the shortfall today. If FICA is cut by 2 percent, scrapping the cap gets Social Security only halfway there.

The pressure to cut Social Security in a slow, gradual way for younger workers will be enormous. Progressives will not want to cut benefits for the low-income – and they shouldn’t be cut; they should be increased. Despite the fact that there are few beneficiaries who do not desperately need their Social Security – 2/3rds of the elderly and 70 percent of people receiving disability benefits rely on Social Security for half or more of their income and most people think even more people will be dependent on it in the future – nonetheless, means-testing Social Security will become a viable option. (Eliminating the benefits of those who don’t need them will make no difference to the solvency of Social Security, but will introduce administrative complexity, because it will require everyone claiming benefits to reveal their income and assets, to show they are of insufficient means to get by without it, and will destroy the universal, insurance nature of Social Security.) Changing the benefit formula in the manner proposed by a majority of the Catfood Commission, will appear attractive, even though it would gradually and inexorably eviscerate the benefits of the middle class, and with it, their support for the program.

http://my.firedoglake.com/nancyaltman/2010/12/07/the-end-of-social-security/
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's bad because --
they will then have to borrow the same amnount to offset what SS will be losing. So we now have to borrow for tax cuts for the rich AND to compensate SS.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. Obama newspeak
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Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. Now just how dumb is this? wtf.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. "so the Trust Fund loses no REVENUE" - what does that even mean?
If it means that the general budget is going to replace the $120 B loss straight across, in every aspect (future interest as well), one wonders why the feds didn't just cut checks directly out of the general budget.

OTOH, replacing lost "Trust Fund REVENUE" can mean something other than that. Strictly speaking, you could say all the "revenue" forecast as going to the TF next year comes from interest & taxation of benefits ($154 B, exactly the forecast growth in the TF).

There are lots of games they can play if they care to.

Table IV.A3

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/2009/IV_SRest.html#271967

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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Maybe because the 2009 projection for 2011 has been revised?
You reference the 2009 report.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html

For 2010:

"Social Security expenditures are expected to exceed tax receipts this year for the first time since 1983. The projected deficit of $41 billion this year (excluding interest income) is attributable to the recession and to an expected $25 billion downward adjustment to 2010 income that corrects for excess payroll tax revenue credited to the trust funds in earlier years. This deficit is expected to shrink substantially for 2011 and to return to small surpluses for years 2012-2014 due to the improving economy."

This dates to before 8/2010, and it's likely that revised projections for 2012 would probably not be so rosy. (Elsewhere they point to small deficits ending in 2015.)
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. The changes are irrelevant to the point: Forecast for 2011 from the 2010 report is:
Edited on Tue Dec-07-10 10:40 PM by Hannah Bell
Revenues =

$707.5 B from the payroll tax
$147.3 B from benefits taxation & interest to the TF

Total = $854.8 billion

Outgoes =

$730.1 billion in benefit checks
$11.6 billion in administrative & other costs

Total = $741.7 billion


New Trust Fund "Revenue" = $113.7 billion (about $40 billion less than in the 2009 report).

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/2010/IV_SRest.html#126084


The point remains: what do *they* mean by "revenue"?

All SS revenues that aren't used to cut checks or pay administrative costs get BORROWED INTO THE GENERAL BUDGET IN EXCHANGE FOR US SECURITIES.

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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. What about the people that receive SS what the fuck do we
get THREE YEARS BENIFIT FREEZE!
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. Jesus H. Christ the money will be shifted from other sources,
there isn't any money, it is borrowed from China. How f---g dumb do they think we are?
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. They hope we don't read the fine print. Well, we do.
:mad:
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