"Obama has decided to drive his 2012 campaign off a cliff. How do we get Democrats off the bus?"

[Better Believe It]

United Auto Workers under fire for supporting trade deal
By John Maggs
December 6, 2010

The labor rancor about the Korea pact spilled over Monday at the monthly meeting of AFL-CIO legislative directors, where representatives of the different unions that make up the labor federation expressed anger and confusion about the UAW’s sudden embrace of free trade, which it has fought for decades, said Matt McKinnon, legislative and political director for the International Association of Machinists.

They heard a presentation from Barbara Somson and Doug Meyers, two UAW trade negotiators who reportedly urged King to oppose the deal. “They know it is a bad deal for auto workers,” said McKinnon. “They were forced to go a long with it.”

McKinnon said there was overwhelming opposition to the Korea deal among the AFL-CIO member unions at the meeting, and a widespread feeling that the trade pact was bad news for Democrats. He agreed with the sentiment of another union representative at the meeting, who said “Obama has decided to drive his 2012 campaign off a cliff. How do we get congressional Democrats off the bus?”

McKinnon said he is baffled about how King could endorse a deal that will dramatically increase the nearly 500,000 Korean-made cars now sold in the United States, while boosting U.S. auto sales in Korea from less than 10,000 now to eventually as high as 55,0000.

Read the full article at:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1210/46037.html

[notesdev]

1. From where I sit

we're under the bus not on it

[Liberalynn]

4. Exactly we have to lift the bus off us.

[AndrewP]

2. That's a concern I have too. Regardless of the White House, how do we get the House & Senate

to both be under Democratic control in 2012. I have a feeling it'll have to be without guidance from the White House.

[Scurrilous]

3. K & R

Politico ROCKS!!1!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[inna]

28. not surprised by your inane comments, in fact, used to them, by now

[Autumn]

5. No we need a jack, preferably a crane

to lift it off of us.

[Individualist]

12. +1

[Autumn]

14. It's a damn big bus.n/t

[Tx4obama]

6. Obama has a ton of republican bricks on top of him, we needs to help dig him out.

President Obama has a thankless job.
The huge mess the republicans left him with is disgusting.
And if we dems turn on him while he is trying to turn our country around then it will be even more disgusting.

[Tansy_Gold]

7. I politely must disagree

Mr. Obama had nearly two years, from the time he began his campaign in Feb 2007 until the time he took office in Jan 2009, to prepare himself to deal with the "mess" he willingly and eagerly took on. No one forced him to do it. He chose this job of his own free will.

Much of the ADDITIONAL mess he's had to deal with is of his own making. Had he followed a policy of more left-leaning stances on issues, things might have been better. But since he chose, again of his own free will, to espouse positions that are much more center right, then he has to deal with the results.

Sorry, no pity from


Tansy Gold

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tx4obama]

10. And I will politely disagree

The job losses started getting bad in the middle of 2008 under Bush.
There's no way Obama could have known how bad they would become by the time he took office in 2009.
See graph here (Red=Bush/Blue=Obama): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9501285

Also the BP gulf mess was due to the Bush Administration's oil industry deregulation - Obama had no way of foreseeing that mess.

There are also other messes that Bush left (including this tax-cut expiration that a Bush aide said that they left for 'the next' president).

So, we can agree to disagree ;)

[AtomicKitten]

11. He was handed a shit sandwich the day he was sworn in. nt

[notesdev]

16. "There's no way Obama could have known how bad "

Hell, I knew how bad it was at that time. It's not as if Hank Paulson hadn't come to Congress (while Obama was a sitting Senator) and tell them it was so bad that if the government didn't fork over $700B ASAP to the banksters, the economy would collapse immediately and there'd be "tanks in the streets".

So with all due respect I don't buy that for a moment. He also had professional economic advisers... ones involved in causing the mess, no less. You'll have a very hard time convincing me they didn't know.

[Better Believe It]

17. I knew! And a lot of top economists who were not responsible for the crisis knew.

[Tansy_Gold]

21. You weren't alone. A whole lot of people right here on DU knew it

And we weren't shy about making our opinions known.

But the president chose to follow the advice of people he thought knew better than we. None of them suggested doing any of the things we thought might help. He followed their advice and things aren't a whole lot better, and in fact some things are distinctly worse.

Now, some people might think that it might be wise if Mr. Obama stopped listening to the advice of the people whose suggestions didn't work too well and maybe he should start listening to people whose suggestions haven't been tried recently.

Indeed, some people might think that.


TG, TT

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[notesdev]

35. Did we ever

http://www.democraticunderground.com/searchresults.html?q=notesdev+%2B%22fire+geithner%22&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&sa=Search&domains=democraticunderground.com&client=pub-7805397860504090&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en

[Tansy_Gold]

36. We did indeed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=497189

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7922946#7923729


:cry:


TG, TT

[readmoreoften]

13. If the most powerful man in the world is helpless against the minority party

there isn't much "we" can do to help him. Especially when he isn't "helping" himself.

[bobbolink]

24. When he gets rid of the Republicans he put in his cabinet, there will be fewer bricks.

[AtomicKitten]

9. Pull the bell cord and get off at the next stop. nt

[Forkboy]

19. A lot of people are doing just that.

Personally, I think that sucks, as it doesn't help us at all. How do you feel about it?

[AtomicKitten]

20. This flutter of reactivity is human nature.

It's also exhausting. I am torn on much of it. I want the Dems in Congress to filibuster the deal brokered by the WH but at the same time I'm mindful of the world of hurt many Americans are facing economically. What is perceived as crumbs for them brokered in the WH deal may be the difference between going hungry and survival; I just don't know.

Pres Obama was hired to make these decisions and IMO beating him like a rented mule isn't helping. I don't buy into the campaign of character assassination that litters these boards. A reasonable discussion cannot be had with the incessant harangue of negativity.

As my backpacking buddies used to tell me when I felt spent, one foot in front of the other. It's the only way out.

edited: typo

[Forkboy]

22. Do you feel it really is just a flutter?

Or something bigger? My gut (such as it is these days) tells me it's something a lot bigger than just a flutter of reactionary people. I can't give you graphs and polls, but not a single person I know is happy with Obama. This in itself wouldn't be a big deal knowing me, but many of these same people were as enthusiastic as you were to vote for him. What's changed?

A reasonable discussion cannot be had with the incessant harangue of negativity.

While true, so is the inverse. A reasonable discussion cannot be had with the incessant harangue of, "You must want President Palin", and the attitude that all Obama does is a godsend.

I long for people who see between two points and not just the points themselves.

[AtomicKitten]

27. I'm not responsible for how others approach these conversations.

What I'm finding is huge diversity of opinion on policy and it's almost always an eye-opener to see where people land and stand on issues. The people I surround myself with don't rely on vitriol and obnoxious hyperbole, and that in turn fosters productive conversations.

People will have a chance to weigh in again in 2012. That's how democracy works. In the interim, kicking him repeatedly like a rented mule is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive.

When receiving the Gershwin award at the WH earlier this year, Paul McCartney said to Pres Obama: "Billions of people are rooting for you." I am rooting for him too. If he does well, we as a nation do well, and the final chapters of his presidency have yet to be written.

[Forkboy]

29. "The people I surround myself with don't rely on vitriol and obnoxious hyperbole"

Well, that's a rather back patting comment, if I may be so bold. The intent of such a comment seems to be to say that any disagreement falls under the umbrella of "obnoxious hyperbole". Some of it it is. I can assure you that much of it isn't though.

In the interim, kicking him repeatedly like a rented mule is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive.

Subjective. Depends on what he's being kicked for. Your words here suggest that anyone disagreeing with him should be quiet, as it won't help them and only helps the enemy. I don't see it that way (and I bet deep down that you don't either).

If he does well, we as a nation do well, and the final chapters of his presidency have yet to be written.

And if he does badly, so do we, hence the apprehension of many. It's true his final chapters have yet to be written, and I truly hope it's better than what's been entered into the historical log so far.

[AtomicKitten]

30. No, it's not back-patting. It's a choice.

It's a choice I make to seek out information on all sides of issues (sans gratuitous vitriol), mull it over and discuss it with others I trust; that's how I formulate my opinion.

Notably your take of what I've written is prefaced by "seems to be" or "suggests" and in each instance your interpretation is wrong. I, in fact, don't think "any disagreement falls under the umbrella of obnoxious hyperbole" and I don't think "anyone disagreeing with him should keep quiet."

That's precisely the kind of unproductive conversation that causes nothing but indigestion. You are talking past me, not to me.

Peace out. :hi:

[Forkboy]

31. That's a fair enough response.

Two last questions...

Do you feel that an answer like "Pull the bell cord and get off at the next stop" is talking to someone or past them?

And what do you think of the stomach problems it may be causing? :P

[AtomicKitten]

32. It was a simple answer to the question: "How do we get off the bus."

A simple, straightforward answer that could be construed as a smartass response; I blame that on the burgeoning comedian in me.

Stomach problems. Oy. I had surgery 14 years ago and am scheduled for another go in the new year.

:scared:

Cheers.

[Forkboy]

33. I hate comedians.

:P

Sorry to hear about your health problems, and hope whatever comes up (so to speak) isn't serious. Take care of yourself.

[delightfulstar]

15. Change routes.

If you were trying to get to sunny Sanibel, but found out your bus was headed to shivering Siberia, wouldn't you? Of course, he was handed a lousy bill of goods on day one, no denying it. But it's sometimes less about your predicament, and more about how you deal. Even in the worst of times (like right now), Obama still smells like a rose compared to Dubya, who had the perspicacity of a doorknob, even when he was riding on those high approval ratings post-9/11. But Obama could have culled more support where and when it counted, instead of doing the kind of things he's done (or, rather, not done) this week, out of sheer apathy. He strikes me as just not giving a damn right now, and that's not who I voted for.

[Stinky The Clown]

18. I will give your post a rec, but I will not go to Politico.

[Better Believe It]

34. That's OK. You don't have to.

I go to all kinds of websites for information and sometimes I find articles at websites like Politico or the Wall Street Journal that are informative and interesting. Not most of the time, but it does happen!

[Catherina]

25. How come Democrats have to get off the bus? Maybe the driver needs to be replaced instead. n/t

[Hardrada]

26. Exactly

[bluestate10]

37. Block every republican initiative, except those that make sense.

Democrats should block and circumvent for two years like republicans did. A key part of that strategy is to force tough votes that will expose republican senators and House members from blue states as hypocrites that kee tow to the whims of southern republicans, to the benefit of southern republicans, with no benefit for their districts and states. Because Obama has lost his way does not mean that republicans that are remaining in Congress after January 1 have to loose their way too.