Noose Closes Around Pro-Wikileaks Vigilantes

[Avalux]

Operation Payback is facing a little payback of its own. First Twitter closed the pro-Wikileaks hacker movement's account. And now we hear the Feds are shutting down some online discussion of Operation Payback attacks.

Some sites have received federal court orders to cease any further online documentation of the attacks, which targeted Visa, Mastercard and other financial companies who froze Wikileaks accounts, a source close to the situation tells us. Among the sites where content is coming down is Encyclopedia Dramatica, which we're told received one of the orders. The 4chan-affiliated reference wiki within the past hour had the number three Google hit for a search on "Operation Payback." It has since deleted its article, though the entry remains accessible via Google cache (NSFW).

http://gawker.com/5709789/noose-closes-around-pro+wikileaks-vigilantes

I wonder if DU will be forced to stop talking too?

[Catherina]

1. Chilling. Absolutely chilling. Rec'd n/t

[Creative]

79. Not really...they are stealing credit card numbers now.

That is over the line.

[Catherina]

90. NO they are NOT. Please inform yourself before spreading bullshit

Right on the Mastercard homepage:

MasterCard has made significant progress in restoring full-service to its corporate website. Our core processing capabilities have not been compromised and cardholder account data has not been placed at risk. While we have seen limited interruption in some web-based services, cardholders can continue to use their cards for secure transactions globally.

http://www.mastercard.com/index.html

I'd give you the other details but it's up to you to educate yourself before repeating bogus information.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

107. You are absolutely correct. n/t

[Creative]

184. It appears that they are...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/08/mastercard-deemed-unsafe-_n_794164.html

[TalkingDog]

211. Quote the line where it says they are stealing card numbers, please

I can't seem to find it.

And your user name?

[Lord Magus]

147. No, they're DDoSing credit card sites.

That doesn't have anything to do with credit card numbers.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

167. where to people get this stuff?

Serious, where do you here it? Because it boggles my mind that people are getting upset about false information. In short, it makes me really angry.

[Creative]

185. Here, for one...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/08/mastercard-deemed-unsafe-_n_794164.html

[Glassunion]

193. Did you read the article you linked?

"MasterCard, for its part, is denying the rumors. It stated in a tweet, "Recent rumors of a security breach are false & cardholder numbers that were published are fictional. Your info is secure."

[lukasahero]

195. So now we choose to believe MC and not the hackers?

The hackers say they have the info, MC says they don't. Do we only believe the hackers when it supports our interest or do we think maybe MC has some interest in denying they've been breached?

[Glassunion]

204. I was simply replying to a post.

Personally I doubt they do have that information and what they did post was fake. If you look at the mybanktracker.com article, you'll notice that some of the card expiration dates are over 15 years from now, some close to 20. I have never heard of a credit card with expiration dates that far into the future.

But that was not what I was pointing out. In the article, it was not confirmed at all that the card numbers were leaked and that is what I was pointing out.

I do see your point however. MC may very well be lying as well as it would serve their interests to do so. Now if those are not Expiration Dates "MM/YY" and are Last Valid Dates "MM/DD" then they very well could be valid card numbers, however they would be useless without the Expiration Date. Under current regulations Visa, MC, Amex, etc... will not process a transaction without a valid Expiration Date.

If they were indeed valid numbers however(even without expiration dates), I would be pissed at both MC and the Hackers.

However, If you follow the attacks, they were aimed directly at the company's websites, not the card processing portion of their networks which are completly separate and in all likelyhood in different physical locations. The vast majority of transactions go through 3rd Party authorizers and all are encrypted. I.E. I go online and use my card on Company A's(Sears, Victoria Secrets, Best Buy, etc...) website. Company A will encrypt(3DES) then route the information over a secure P2P network to an authorizer(3V, Concord, VeriPhone, etc...) who then communicates to the bank (Visa, MC, Amex) on a different and completly separate P2P network. These networks are virtually impossible to hack as they are not(technically) on the internet, and even if they were hacked, the data would need to be decrypted(each retailer has their own set of encryption keys unique to their company) I'm not saying it cannot be done. But the probability is quite low.

[lukasahero]

232. "These networks are virtually impossible to hack"

Well, yes and no. I can tell you this - I was recently responsible for re-writing the software used to send sensitive information from company a (the second biggest data breach in history) to company b (the biggest data breach in history). Obviously, my experience says it can be done.

I agree the probability that, in general, these particular "hackers" (Do "denial of service attacks" really count as a hack these days? If so, damn standards have really fallen.) really broke into the systems and got that kind of information is quite low.

I was more interested in pointing out the fickle allegiances of DU where we believe who/what suits our purpose. Either these "hackers" are really taking these sites out and capable of "making these companies pay" or they're not.

[Sheepshank]

210. but then the article says this:

MyBankTracker captured a screenshot of the numbers tweeted out by Anonymous, blurring out part of them to protect privacy. They appear to be credit card numbers and expiration dates.

[Glassunion]

212. That is not what I was contending.

Also... Did you look at the "Expiration" dates on the mybanktracker website? 15 to 20 years to expire? See Post 206

[gateley]

2. Heil Hitler! nt

[PeaceNikki]

3. Cybercrimes are cybercrimes not just when they target people we like.

[glitch]

11. Is discussing cybercrimes now a cybercrime too? nt

[PeaceNikki]

13. If one is conspiring to commit them it is.

[RegieRocker]

20. There are no conspiracies ever never lol

[Lord Magus]

149. Except that's not what's happening.

What's happening is that sites are being pressured to remove articles that discuss the crimes.

Just because those discussions are approving doesn't mean they're illegal. It's perfectly legal to say you approve of a crime. Even if it's a far more heinous crime than DDoS attacks.

[Celtic Raven]

194. Only with freedom of speech

Looks like WikiLeaks has pulled the curtains back before TPTB were quite ready for the people to know freedom of anything is just an illusion.

[socialist_n_TN]

101. BINGO! Succinctly stated............

And that's what it sounds like. Message control. Can't have the workers knowing that something might work against the capitalist class.

[yodermon]

23. Then the original DDOS attack against wikileaks was a cybercrime. n/t

[PeaceNikki]

45. Agreed.

[slay]

175. Cyber "crime" really? More like a cyber annoyance - drawing attention to a government obsessed with

control, power, and secrets - having morphed into little more than an enforcement arm of their masters - the super rich and The Corporations.

People need to wake up - watch V For Vendetta. 1984. It's not joke. It's a warning. So is what's going on with wikileaks and the DDoS attacks. It's power to the people or power to secretive, lying, corrupt corporate governments, mega banks, etc. The Infowars have begun. I wish I could say Obama was on the side of the people but evidence proves otherwise. Some Dems are - Bernie Sanders is. Many people in Europe are speaking out. I find the whole thing fascinating. At least some people are fighting back.

[PeaceNikki]

177. Yes CRIME. You don't know anyone who is in IT at all, huh?

Or depends on the internet to conduct all or some of their business? You wake up.

In the United States, the relevant code is Title 18 Part I Chapter 47 § 1030(a)(5)(A)(i), which says that anyone who:

(i) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer;

is in violation of the law and can be fined and imprisoned for up to one year (unless there intrusion causes medical or physical harm, or unless they are already a convicted felon, or unless they seek monetary gain, in which cause the penalties go up).

So, is Paypal or Visa's website a protected computer? No, probably not. But any computer engaged in Interstate commerce is a protected computer. For example, all of the computers belonging to your ISP, which you are placing load on by your criminal activity. If it turns out you were collaborating with others in order to cause this activity to occur, say for instance, all of your buddies on Twitter, then you could also be said to be part of a conspiracy.

[Name removed]

203. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PeaceNikki]

209. :*

[Name removed]

214. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

215. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slay]

224. I AM in IT and it is NOT a crime

this is my 3rd time trying to post this. can i at least state what i said in the topic without having it deleted? wtf.

[clyrc]

178. One man's cybercrime is another man's cyber-resistance

[PeaceNikki]

179. One man's "cyber-resistance" can and should still land his ass squarely in prison

In the United States, the relevant code is Title 18 Part I Chapter 47 § 1030(a)(5)(A)(i), which says that anyone who:

(i) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer;

is in violation of the law and can be fined and imprisoned for up to one year (unless there intrusion causes medical or physical harm, or unless they are already a convicted felon, or unless they seek monetary gain, in which cause the penalties go up).

[readmoreoften]

190. Naturalistic fallacy. Just because something exists doesn't mean its good or right.

Homosexuality was illegal in the US until 2003. That didn't justify its illegality.

[Celtic Raven]

196. Assange is Australian

not American. Or have we become so arrogant that ALL of the people of the planet must obey our laws regardless of the laws of their own countries? Don't answer that, it's rhetorical.

We are a country on the verge of closing down, and anyone reporting the truth will be criminalized and dealt with harshly.

[PeaceNikki]

208. lol - this discussion is about Anon, not Assange.

[Celtic Raven]

226. Wrong place

too late to edit.

:hi:

[Name removed]

206. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Matariki]

4. "Feds are shutting down some online discussion"

Right. Here we are, then. What would you call the "shutting down of online discussion"?

[PeaceNikki]

7. If you read it, it says "Feds are shutting down some online discussion of Operation Payback attacks.

Meaning people who conspire to commit crimes.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hissyspit]

22. How do you know there's conspiracy?

What about about people not facilitating the attacks Who are discussing?

Do they have warrants?

[PeaceNikki]

27. *I* don't. Jesus, read the article.

[Hissyspit]

59. Did not click link, true. O.k. Fed court order.

Original question remains: you say "some discussion" means "people conspiring to commit crimes." then you say you don't know that?

[socialist_n_TN]

105. But what does that actually MEAN?...........

We've been "discussing" Operation Payback attacks for a little while now. As far as I know, there's been no "conspiracy" to commit any crimes. But by the sentence you quoted, we could be shut down JUST FOR DISCUSSING IT. And yes I know we haven't been shut down....yet.

Don't we still have a First Amendment? Or does that only apply when you SUPPORT government overreach?

[Matariki]

115. I read it as discussion of the attacks. Not as planning the attacks.

There's a difference. If my reading of it is the correct one, then it is horribly chilling and should alarm anyone who values democracy and free speech.

[tcaudilllg]

121. Don't be alarmed. Take action.

[Avalux]

132. "discussion" - which means merely talking about it.

It is chilling - and we should be mad as hell by the attempt to stop it.

[PeaceNikki]

180. Then you read it wrong and are a bit paranoid.

They are shutting down the "discussion" when the "discussion" is collaborating with others in order to commit crimes.

[slay]

176. You can find them on their IRC servers

information is always out there. Real time chat. "Crime" is a very relative term - especially in these circumstances. Assange - was wanted by INTERPOL (INTERPOL seriously how is that justifiable) - now in jail in Briton for a "crime" of a broken condom committed in Sweden - where one of the girls wants nothing to do with any of this and has fled the country? Well... we all know why he's REALLY in jail now don't we. Who's really committing the crime here?

Nobody's saying anyone has to participate, but it's fascinating to watch people fight back against power.

irc.anonops.net port 6667 or +6697 for SSL.

Power to the people.

[Glassunion]

216. Huh? What is it we are doing here?

I thought we were having an online discussion of Operation Payback attacks.

I am conspiring to do nothing more than vow, that I will indeed have a beer when I get home from work today. Other than that we are just talking and not conspiring to do anything.

[NightWatcher]

5. ever played Whack A Mole, what always happens when you push one down?

[TNLib]

77. In this case one won't come up but a predict many

the feds may have poked the bear with this.

[msongs]

6. meanwhile the out of control US military vigilante runs amok across the planet unfettered nt

[Violet_Crumble]

8. But don't you understand?? Denial of service attacks are illegal!!!!

C'mon, people! Focus on the important stuff! ;)

[PeaceNikki]

12. WTF is so importantly gained from attacking Mastercard and Paypal and Amazon?

[Violet_Crumble]

14. Rock the fuck on, Nikki! People need to leave these poor businesses alone!

Imagine trying to change to subject to the slaughter and destruction the US military is responsible for around the world! The cheek of some people! ;)

[PeaceNikki]

17. Nice dodge! What is gained by attacking them? Anything?

At all?

[Violet_Crumble]

21. Let's work together on getting everyone focused on the big stuff!

We need to focus all our energy on complaining about denial of service attacks against big businesses and ignore the sneaky attempts to divert attention to the US military's slaughter of civilians around the world. Work with me on this and we can get all of DU focusing on the big issues like expressing our sympathy to Mastercard and Visa for any inconvenience they've suffered!

[Catherina]

28. Thank you. You said it a lot more politely than I could right now n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

38. Thanks, Catherina...

:)

[walldude]

49. It's a warning from people who were assumed to have

no power. Frankly the fact that I see liberals getting upset about this confuses me. Maybe it's me but what I see here is someone standing up and saying "you cannot continue to do this, and if you think you hold all the power you are sadly mistaken, you may want to think twice before you bury a man for telling the truth."

[originalpckelly]

53. Everything is gained. DON'T FUCK WITH US ANYMORE YOU SOBS!

That's what's gained. Pointing out the empire is completely naked.

[Pavulon]

113. Is that before or after moot turned over logs on the palin kid?

I wonder how a server can host so much child porn anyway...

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/fbi/turns-out-4chan-not-lawless-it-seems

[Raksha]

172. It amazes me that anyone needs to have it spelled out for them, especially on DU.

Re "Everything is gained. DON'T FUCK WITH US ANYMORE YOU SOBS!"

The PTB will do ANYTHING to avoid admitting in public that they got the message, and it scares the living crap out of them.

I LOVE IT!!!

[Lord Magus]

151. That's irrelevant.

It doesn't give the government the right to pressure sites to delete discussion of the attacks.

[TheMadMonk]

169. If nothing else it points out that "shit" can rise up from below as well...

...as descend from above.

The specifically targetted entities are now getting the message that folding to an illegal threat from above will invite illegal attack from beneath.

[personman]

201. The cost of business as usual has gone up...

Next time they consider stifling dissent, this just might factor in to their little cost/benefit ratio analysis.

What would be gained? Freedom to dissent.

[xiamiam]

183. + 1000000 for clarity..thanks..nt

[madmax]

199. Thank you +100 nt

[Lint Head]

10. Freedom of speech is under attack!

What are we going to do?

[Pavulon]

16. DDOS is not first ammendment anymore than a molotov cocktail

deal with it, grow up.

[NuclearDem]

18. Molotovs are violent

DDoSing someone's site isn't.

I mean, come on, is shutting down Visa or Mastercard's website REALLY going to hurt them in the long run? It's not like someone firebombed their headquarters buildings or even scribbled graffiti on one of their ATMs. It's a bunch of people taking a symbolic attack against people who are doing some downright awful things, and making their displeasure with them known without hurting anybody or causing physical damage.

Never thought I'd see the day when people at DU were ATTACKING nonviolent demonstrations...

[PeaceNikki]

24. It's not a "nonviolent demonstration" it's criminal activity.

And the only "attacks" on DU are coming from the people who support this criminal activity.

[NuclearDem]

29. And tell me who exactly is getting hurt by this "criminal activity"?

When a crime isn't resulting in any harm more than temporary inconvenience and embarrassment, it's not a crime.

[PeaceNikki]

40. ISP's and their customers whose bandwidth is used

Websites who pay for bandwidth. Customers who can't do what they need to do. IT staff who are working 23 hour fucking days fighting this shit.

A few off the top of my head.

[NuclearDem]

48. Maybe Mastercard, Visa, et al. should have considered those ramifications

BEFORE they caved to petty political bullshit.

[Luminous Animal]

52. Who got hurt by the soda fountain boycotts? Why, the soda fountains' customers!

[Pavulon]

80. yes the b tards are blacks sitting at the counter in greensboro..

fucking has to be the internet to reach that level of stupid.

[Luminous Animal]

103. Defenders of civil liberties come in many shapes and colors.

[xiamiam]

186. a few uncomfortable experiences in order to encourage world transparency

i'm ok with that...big picture

[Pavulon]

81. How bout you post you external ip in /b and see what happens..(nt)

[Better Believe It]

47. Unless it is being done by governments against WikiLeaks. Right?

Where is the uproar in the corporate media against those government sponsored cyberattacks against WikiLeaks?

You don't think it's really just anonymous private persons engage in those cyber attacks, do ya?

And let's say some of them are "private".

Why isn't the media condeming them?

Not even a whisper of protest!

[Pavulon]

82. got any evidence or it that the assange rape claim..

all false with no evidence?

[Forkboy]

85. LOL...you demanding evidence!

God, you're awesome! :rofl:

[Pavulon]

87. So the CIA is attacking wikileaks.. I mean sure

because you and the rabble say so. Sounds like church, I'll just take your word for it.

Please. I dont demand shit, just know that the howlers have no evidence the government did a damn thing.

[Forkboy]

89. Speaking of howlers that have no evidence.....

Thanks for playing! :hi:

[Pavulon]

92. Still never seen one post from you with content, guess that is a gold standard(nt)

[Forkboy]

94. Why tell me? Alert the mods.

[Pavulon]

96. meh. rather call it out you can complain to them if you like(nt)

[Forkboy]

100. Then quit your fucking bitching about it then and be a man.

[socialist_n_TN]

111. Didn't the VP of PayPal SAY that the State Dept............

pressured them to shut out WikiLeaks? Isn't DoS government? Or do you BELIEVE everything the government says when it denies?

[Oilwellian]

166. You obviously haven't been to Wikileaks

They published the very documents you claim don't exist. :rofl:

[Better Believe It]

108. No. It's simply how the Chinese, Russian and other government spy agencies operate.

But, would you be shocked to find out this is what's happening in leaked cables or government documents a year or so down the road.

Just study their history.

It's the sort of thing they do!

Really!

Ever hear of Cointelpro?

[Pavulon]

112. Yeah, I've read the books. thats why ddos is so silly

if everyone on his staff disappeared i would be thinking some tla bagged them and dropped them off a boat somewhere.

[NuclearDem]

120. hahahahahaha oh this again...

Thank God my popcorn's finally ready... :beer:

[Celtic Raven]

197. +1

It's only a cybercrime when it's against gov't/corporations which are morphing into one entity before our eyes.

[socialist_n_TN]

117. Growing up in the South in the 50s and 60s...........

I'll GUARANTEE you that nonviolent demonstrations ARE considered criminal activity by many, and maybe MOST, of the power structure. It was then and it is now.

[Pavulon]

118. Well I'm sure they will bring dogs and firehoses when they arrest

a gaggle of little pud pullers for attacking bank sites.

[socialist_n_TN]

124. I don't doubt it at all. I'm sure they're going to ..........

bring the full intimidation arsenal when, and if, they DO arrest somebody over this. There'll be 20 cops, FBI, etc in full regelia, with drawn guns busting into the place screaming and threatening. You know, kind of like they do when they bust somebody for marijuana possession in a lot of places. They've got to make sure that nobody gets the idea that they might be able to challenge the PTB.

[Pavulon]

130. When they arrested the kid who lived with his mom near Raleigh

it was just a few agents. He is still in federal prison. 16 and fucked for life.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,532042,00.html

[socialist_n_TN]

134. Ah yes a link to Faux News.........

No further comment about THAT needed.

This will be different. It's gotten WAY too much international publicity. It will be full fledged INTIMIDATION theater when and if somebody gets arrested over this.

[Pavulon]

137. Another source, same little asshole. You going to stand up for a kid

calling in bomb threats. People stealing credit cards? Hopefully someone(s) plural. Begin convicted of a felony is a bad thing, it follows you.

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20101018/LOCAL04/101019544/1026/LOCAL04

[socialist_n_TN]

145. I'll stand up for anything that pokes the capitalists .............

in the eye. This guy didn't make any threat as a political statement. The matter we've been discussing is a POLITICAL matter. Capitalism is Evil and it's KILLING ALL OF US. Even the capitalists. Of course, they don't care because they'll trade the end of the world next week for profit this week. That's the way a capitalist THINKS. Profit only. So if some guys can make trouble for the capitalist system in defense of free flow of information then, yeah, I'm going to be OK with that.

I prefer being free. I actually WOULD rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

[Pavulon]

150. So you invison a USSR like structure, maybe that of gasp sweden?

china, which new overlord will become the dominant system?

At then end of it all you are dead. I assume you are not a peasant in china who depends on the rain to live.

So how does your perfect world function?

[socialist_n_TN]

154. Envision, not invision. And this is not the thread to get into it...........

But I'm not a fan of statism or Stalinism. And China isn't even very socialist any more.

[Pavulon]

158. Sweden is pretty socialist, maybe a nice strongman like hugo

or castro to lead us.. dear leader model works in the north.

[NuclearDem]

165. Dude you're on DU and you're shocked that someone here isn't a capitalist?

I'M SHOCKED

[Pavulon]

219. Realist is the shocking part. Everyone wants to break shit, no one wants the broom.

if you dislike the system you have to replace it. You can NOT leave a vacuum. Tommy Franks learned that the hard way.

[Pavulon]

86. Its just property. It has no owners. If someone burn your home,

its all good, as long as you are not home.

Post your external IP in /b and post a challenge enjoy the ride.

PS your isp will cut your ass off and still collect your bill.

As a matter of fact why dont you post a screen cap of you external ip here?

http://www.whatsmyip.org/ if you dont know how to get it.. remember post it infront of your signed in DU page...

I mean its all peaceful until your on the ass end of it.

[originalpckelly]

37. No Tories allowed.

[Forkboy]

69. What, the rape card all worn out?

[Name removed]

83. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tcaudilllg]

133. And neither is changing the rules mid-game.

Slavery rises. The bad guys are on the move -- Wikileaks will only be the first. This is the first wave of the counter-attack.

There is a new intellectual wave coming -- a new era of accountability founded on analytic psychological principles, in which people like Newt Gingerich and Sarah Palin, who intend to corrupt the government, will have no place. Don't think they are going to go down willingly -- this is an all out bid for absolute control, and Wikileaks is only the first sign of concrete proof that they will do every thing they can to keep the government corrupt.

[Pavulon]

141. Soulds like Gault to me..

so is atlas shrugging here with the wikidick manning conspiracy.

[sendero]

181. It's Galt..

... dumbass. God you are one stupid mofo.

[madmax]

200. .....

:rofl:

[Pavulon]

225. Aww, dodge on a spelling error, no content. Feel free how the smart people revolt

is not parallel. Fell free, lazy ad hom bastard.

[Lord Magus]

153. DISCUSSION of what the DDoSers are doing IS 1st Amendment.

All Americans have the right to talk about what criminals are doing, even those who approve of the criminals.

[Poll_Blind]

15. I doubt the federal government could force Skinner to switch from Woolite to Tide.

:rofl:

PB

(Not that there's anything wrong with Tide)

[pipi_k]

19. I think there might be a difference

between discussing it and cheering it on, or encouraging whatever illegal activity might be taking place.

[Luminous Animal]

39. Cheering it on is merely expressing an opinion. You think that should be illegal?

African Americans, in some parts of the country, were legally barred from eating with whites. There were plenty of organizations who cheered on their illegal civil disobedience. Should the Feds have just down their communications, too?

[pipi_k]

56. Segregation...

involved a violation of Civil Rights. People were morally right to cheer on its demise.


What Wikileaks has done is morally reprehensible in and of itself, especially if it involves leaking information on private citizens...or the suggestion that it might...

Besides whatever illegality of what they're doing, people who cheer on what might end up hurting or destroying innocent people...well, I have nothing good to say about them.

[originalpckelly]

58. No, what they leaked was a PRIVATE GOVERNMENT'S INFORMATION!

Some of us think our government should be public, some believe it should be private.

[Luminous Animal]

65. Actually, what they did was leak secret government information. Information that belongs us...

given that we are the government.

[originalpckelly]

73. Just look at the tax deal and tell who this government is serving these days.

It sure doesn't look like it's us.

[Luminous Animal]

74. It's a good theory, anyway.

[pipi_k]

91. And some think that there are lots of gray areas

Some things we need to know, and some things we don't.

Unfortunately, there are individuals who can't get beyond the all-or-nothing mindset.

[Luminous Animal]

60. What Wikileaks, a news organization, is doing is no more illegal than what the NY Times is doing.

The NY Times is also publishing the cables. Doing so is a Constitutionally protected activity. Would you advocate that the government advise financial institutions to shut down access to the NY Times?

[originalpckelly]

64. EXACTLY! But no one's talking about that.

[Luminous Animal]

67. Except for Lieberman, of course. He thinks the NY Times should be investigated.

[martymar64]

88. People cheer it on because they are modern day Bonnie and Clydes, sticking it to the man

People cheered on bank robbers like Bonnie and Clyde and John Dillinger during the Depression. Back then people hated banks and the rich for the same reasons.

Only difference is they don't need Tommy Guns to get their point across.

Sure, what they're doing is illegal. But so is waging aggressive war on a country that was not a threat based on a lie and continuing that war in the face of this fact.

Who's the bigger criminal?

[socialist_n_TN]

114. Why would even "cheering it on" be illegal?

Or for that matter encouraging it. Anybody who sticks a finger in the eye of the capitalists has my "Bravo". They've been fucking us for centuries.

[tcaudilllg]

135. I'm cheering.

And I will keep cheering.

Forever.

[NuclearDem]

25. DDosing isn't a crime anymore than staging a die-in in front of a recruitment office is

No one's getting hurt, and people are making their grievances known in a nonviolent fashion.

[Catherina]

30. Please don't interfere with a perfectly entertaining meltdown.

:)

[NuclearDem]

35. My bad, I'm just pissed I didn't get my popcorn ready in time

Let the meltdown rreeessssuuummmeeeeee! :crazy:

[Catherina]

84. Trust me, this one's entertaining enough without popcorn! n/t

[PeaceNikki]

31. Except there's specific federal code against it.

In the United States, the relevant code is Title 18 Part I Chapter 47 § 1030(a)(5)(A)(i), which says that anyone who:

(i) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer;

is in violation of the law and can be fined and imprisoned for up to one year (unless there intrusion causes medical or physical harm, or unless they are already a convicted felon, or unless they seek monetary gain, in which cause the penalties go up).

So, is Paypal or Visa's website a protected computer? No, probably not. But any computer engaged in Interstate commerce is a protected computer. For example, all of the computers belonging to your ISP, which you are placing load on by your criminal activity. If it turns out you were collaborating with others in order to cause this activity to occur, say for instance, all of your buddies on Twitter, then you could also be said to be part of a conspiracy.


Here's what can happen to you:
http://media-newswire.com/release_1133513.html

[originalpckelly]

42. Empires have no law. They sure don't give shit about following the US Constitution.

They wouldn't be in this boat if they hadn't jumped in it. They're the ones who made themselves targets. Not Anonymous.

[PeaceNikki]

43. Oh. The drama.

[Forkboy]

71. Oh the cop out.

[martymar64]

93. Setec Astronomy

[Luminous Animal]

50. The history of the U.S. is filled with activist who broke the law. What's next? Turning off their

telephones? Stopping their mail? No arrests have been mailed, there are no charges of conspiracy.

[PeaceNikki]

51. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9728886&mesg_id=9729125

[Luminous Animal]

54. I reel in the amazing amazingness of your dazzling debating techniques.

[PeaceNikki]

55. Back atcha, sunshine. :*

[pipi_k]

109. Wrong.

It IS a crime.

Granted, this site says that most DoS incidents are not prosecuted in court...but some are. Because they're, you know....

crimes.


http://www.rbs2.com/ccrime.htm#anchor111666




The following is one case involving a famous series of DoS attacks:

* The Yahoo website was attacked at 10:30 PST on Monday, 7 Feb 2000. The attack lasted three hours. Yahoo was pinged at the rate of one gigabyte/second.
* The websites of amazon.com buy.com cnn.com eBay.com were attacked on Tuesday, 8 Feb 2000. Each attack lasted between one and four hours. CNN reported that the attack on its website was the first major attack since its website went online in August 1995.
* The websites of E*Trade, a stock broker, and ZDNet, a computer information company, were attacked on Wednesday, 9 Feb 2000.
* About fifty computers at Stanford University, and also computers at the University of California at Santa Barbara, were amongst the zombie computers sending pings in these DoS attacks.
* The attacks received the attention of President Clinton and the U.S. Attorney General, Janet Reno. The FBI began to investigate. A CNN news report posted at 18:44 EST on 9 Feb 2000 quotes Ron Dick of the FBI's National Infrastructure Protection Center as saying "A 15-year-old kid could launch these attacks. It doesn't take a great deal of sophistication to do."
* His remark was prophetic, because, on 18 April 2000, a 15-year-old pupil in Montréal Canada was arrested and charged with two counts of "mischief to data" arising from his DoS attack on CNN. Because he was a juvenile, his name can not be publicly disclosed, so he was called by his Internet pseudonym Mafiaboy. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police seized Mafiaboy's computer.
* CNN reported that Mafiaboy was granted bail, with the following conditions:
o "may only use computers under the direct supervision of a teacher."
o "prohibited from connecting to the Internet"
o prohibited from entering "a store or company where computer services or parts are sold."
o "barred from communicating with three of his closest friends."
* On 3 August 2000, Canadian federal prosecutors charged Mafiaboy with 54 counts of illegal access to computers, plus a total of ten counts of mischief to data for his attacks on Amazon.com, eBay, Dell Computer, Outlaw.net, and Yahoo. Mafiaboy had also attacked other websites, but prosecutors decided that a total of 66 counts was enough. Mafiaboy pled not guilty.
* In November 2000, Mafiaboy's bail was revoked, because he skipped school in violation of a court order. He spent two weeks in jail.
* In December 2000, Mafiaboy, now 16 y old, dropped out of school (after being suspended from school six times since the beginning of that academic year, and failing all of his classes except physical education), and was employed at a menial job. He was again granted bail.
* On 18 Jan 2001, Mafiaboy pleaded guilty to 5 counts of mischief to data and 51 counts of illegal access to computers. As part of a plea agreement between his attorney and prosecutors, the prosecution dismissed the remaining ten counts.
* On 20 June 2001, a social worker reported to the court that Mafiaboy "shows no sign of remorse" and "he's still trying to justify what he did was right."
* On 12 Sep 2001, Mafiaboy was sentenced to spend eight months in a juvenile detention center, then spend one year on probation. Because Mafiaboy was a child at the time of his crime, the maximum sentence that he could have received would be incarceration for two years. In issuing the sentence, Judge Gilles Ouellet commented:

This is a grave matter. This attack weakened the entire electronic communications system. And the motivation was undeniable, this adolescent had a criminal intent."

The above facts are taken from reports at CNN, CBC, CNEWS, and the sentence is reported at wired.com.

[socialist_n_TN]

122. Segregation was the law too............

Uganda might have a law imprisioning gay people for life. All laws are created equal? If the law is bad, it needs to be challenged. That means you break it.

[Avalux]

126. Agreed. n/t

[NeoConsSuck]

26. This is too good to be true

It's like throwing water on a hornet's nest, expecting them to fly away.

[Catherina]

34. Well said n/t

[EFerrari]

41. Yep. Brilliant.

lol

[originalpckelly]

44. They jumped into this sinking boat, and now they're pushing it away from the shore.

They've just fucked themselves good.

[ipaint]

68. +1 yup. nt

[TNLib]

78. Yep

nt

[Celtic Raven]

198. That's so apt

I had a picture of someone trying to lasso a flock of birds, but you nailed it.

:thumbsup:

[originalpckelly]

32. TYRANNY

There's a point in the first Star Wars where Leah is brought to the big guy on the Death Star, Governor Toth. She tells him that as he closes his grip, more and more systems will fall through his fingers. Or something to that effect.

As they close their grip, more and more people will slip through their fingers. I love this. Their tyranny card is being forced. The more and more it is forced, the more and more people will realize what's going on. And there will be some people who will no matter what.

I am one of those people.

You should be too.

[walldude]

66. It was Grand Moff Tarkin

Sorry Star Wars nut.... :)

And I for one am loving the crap out of this. These guys are showing the government that the people aren't as powerless as they think. Not nearly as powerless. And I for one applaud the warning that is being sent by the hackers.

Back in my hacking/pirate days we did it mostly for fun or to see if we could do it there were very few malicious hackers out there. I have been out of the game for a long time now but I have always hoped that the next generation was as good as mine was. Turns out they are better, and they have a purpose. I can't wait to see how all this unfolds...

[Lint Head]

33. I wonder if we are being monitored by more than the DU moderators.

I hope DU has a way to tell.

[Pavulon]

123. You can bet every packet crossing telecom backbones

is duplicated and redirected. google calea, why monitor a site when you can be in the middle of every conversation.

someone can step in and you will not even see you RTT change, if you are looking.

[Better Believe It]

36. Are the feds shutting down cyberattacks on WikiLeaks or organizing them as anonymous people?

I'd say organizing them.

[Luminous Animal]

57. Ha!

[krabigirl]

46. Tyranny.

[Toucano]

61. DO YOU WANT TO PLAY.. A GAME?

Global Thermonuclear War.


(It's not the same without the voice)

[Avalux]

63. I watched that movie last night. n/t

[Toucano]

70. I haven't seen it in ages...but I loved it when it first came out. n/t

[Avalux]

72. It's kind of hokey now....

but at the time it came out, scared the crap out of me. The computer voice especially. ;-)

[martymar64]

98. The movie Sneakers is more relevant

Setec Astronomy

[Toucano]

125. Sidney Poitier and Robert Redford?

I haven't seen that one in ages either.

[Gregorian]

62. Cyberwar.

Complete with cybermen. There's a movie in this. (Sorry about trivializing )

[mmonk]

75. How in the heck can they order that?

If those that discuss it have money, can they talk about it since money is now speech?

[TNLib]

76. That is scary

I don't know if the feds can put a clamp on something like this. I think it would just piss the hackers off more and instead of 1 4chan tomorrow morning their could be many Operation Payback hacker sites.

[Pavulon]

95. Or they could start arresting people on felonies and holding them with no bail

4chan has enough kid porn to jail all of Nebraska for 200 years. Its the same as the KKK, people hiding behind a mask they think prevents them from public exposure.

Well the kid surrounded by crusty socks and his moms hand lotion is not anonymous.

[Avalux]

97. Please provide evidence of your claim.

If what you say is true, I'd like to know. Back it up.

[Pavulon]

104. Take a look at /gif /b I'm not linking

that. Its a 10 year charge to have it on you spindle so you may want to just take my word for it.

[Avalux]

106. Whatever. n/t

[Pavulon]

110. moot turned over logs on the palin hacker

and may turn over info on CP posters (as he should) link to correlation to child porn and /b

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/fbi/turns-out-4chan-not-lawless-it-seems

[Lord Magus]

155. CP posters are already given permanent bans and reported to the authorities.

moot hasn't made any secret of that. The only explanation for the continued posting of CP is that the trolls doing it use proxies.

[Pavulon]

161. The palin hacker kid?

he got dimed out. Not to anonymous. Well turning over logs is not quite dimed out. I was surprised they kept them that long, very surprised. Most sites dont do that..

CP has been there for the years I have visited the site. camwhores seem to be getting younger and younger.

Kinda like the ottoman empire / turkey during ww1, they choose the wrong side and no longer exist.

[Truth2Tell]

174. You sure know a lot about kiddie porn at 4chan

why would you continue to frequent a kiddie porn site "for years?"

[Pavulon]

218. /b is not a kiddie porn site. /b is responsible for the lolcat

and any number of genius things you see on the internet. However it has problems that should have been taken care of. Those problems are why I left years ago.

[toddaa]

188. m00t's bans are notoriously capricious and frequent

4chan itself has been a frequent target of its own users, requiring m00t to set up a blog with a status of the site's availability. He's been known to ban people just for fun and to broad ranges of IPs. Basically, when you run a site frequented by people hiding behind multiple proxies, there's going to be collateral damage.

Aside from the notorious /b/ board, 4chan has some pretty good stuff, if you are looking for high quality images. I"ve nabbed a couple of really good wallpapers from their /wg/ board. And /b/ can be fun, provided you wear asbestos. I frequent the site, and rarely see much that qualifies as child porn. You're correct about the boardline self posts, but nothing blantant. More frequently, its racist banter that is most offensive. My favorite, aside for the various image boards, is /x/, which spawned creepypasta. As a horror fan, you can't beat creepypasta.

4chan is one of the few sites left on the internet that hasn't been taken over by corporate fascists and still values the early days of hacker culture. Yes, most of its users are adolescent morons, but 4chan is also a place that values anonymity. It reminds me of the glory days of fidonet and alt.* usenet. It's also m00t's personal site and you play by his rules, which is fine by me. That's the way the internet should work.

One interesting point about Wikileaks, is that the 4chan community is pretty divided in its support for Assange. Wouldn't surprise me if some of the attacks against Wikileaks are coming from a faction of 4chan's rightwingers.


The internet has been ruined by Facebook, be thankful that 4chan is still alive and well.

[Pavulon]

220. Agree 100% on everything you said. I stopped visiting years ago when the current cancerous

problems they have did not go away. I am not willing to trade my career for the brilliance hidden among the turds there. That said it is the one of the best sites on the internet.

/gif was a classic. Again it needs some chemo.

I have not had time to go visit through a few proxies on a throwaway Virtual Machine. I always stayed away when it looked like someone may be looking at the site.

[Are_grits_groceries]

189. You repeat the kiddie porn meme with authority.

If you know it has enough to jail all of Nebraska, you must be trolling the site regularly to keep up.

If it is posted, it is taken down and the posters are banned. 4chan will take action. They have been investigated and even shut down at times. However, if they were truly a kiddie porn site as you say, the government would have taken them down forever.

My guess is that the government follows those who do post such images on 4chan.

Repeating the 4chan kiddie porn meme is a tried and true tactic to make people turn against the site without folowing up on any of the charges. So is reporting that they post credit card numbers. The numbers they posted were FAKE:

MasterCard Credit Card Numbers Leaked by WikiLeaks Supporters
This is getting personal. Operation PayBack has moved from attacking financial corporations to individuals. An unlucky group of MasterCard holders are in for an unpleasant surprise as hackers have posted individual credit card numbers.
Update: MasterCard calls credit card leak fake, site is back up.
MasterCard has tweeted, that the recent leak of credit card numbers published are fake.
http://www.mybanktracker.com/bank-news/2010/12/08/mastercard-credit-card-numbers/

[Pavulon]

222. THe problem is the SAME files. It is not terrible challenging to scan directories

for a blacklisted file or file content. Obviously this could degenerate to a technical conversation, just think the basics of "faces and places" on mac can identify black files.

There have been some pretty big arrests off of /b users comments and actions. Most are fucking morons who deserved it.

[jimlup]

99. We are watching the pretext of the 1st Amendment die before our eyes

[Pavulon]

116. you dont have a legal right to run a ddos attack any more than you

can run sql injection scripts or use credit card numbers you skim from places they come from. its illegal, deal with it.

[Luminous Animal]

119. I don't believe the poster claimed anything of the sort. I think we can all agree that the attacks

are illegal.

[Lord Magus]

156. You do however have every right to discuss the occurrence of the DDoS attacks.

Even if you say you approve of them.

[Pavulon]

162. Of course you do. Thanks for not calling them hacks

fucking media never gets anything right.

[jimlup]

192. You are correct, but speaking about it is not a violation of any law...

And they are now enforcing censorship at that level. The 1st amendment is in fact in jeopardy and it is indeed failing to hold back the government censorship so sorry, I disagree at a very fundamental level with your tone. Strictly yes, obviously you do not have a right to attack a web site but you do have a right to talk about that as long as it is not conspiracy to do it. There is a difference and the government is not recognizing that.

The Wikileaks question itself is going to be a huge test of the 1st amendment. The government will not be on the side of the constitution. We can be certain of that.

[Fearless]

102. They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

[HEyHEY]

152. Then they came for the cliche's, I didn't speak up because that wouldn't be cliche

:P

[Fearless]

191. How cliche of you!

:P

[snot]

127. NOTE: The article linked to suggests that a page MERELY DISCUSSING the attacks

has been ordered deleted by the U.S. gov't.

See what's left of the page in the Google cache (linked to in the article) for yourself, at http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cky3wmSMsSQJ:encyclopediadramatica.com/Operation_Payback+operation+payback&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Canuckistanian]

128. Since when does Twitter close down someone's account?

Especially when they haven't even been ACCUSED of a crime, let alone COMMITTING one?

This is bullshit.

[Avalux]

129. Yes it is bullshit.

What we are witnessing is a desperate attempt to squelch dissemination of information to the world - it isn't going to work.

[Pavulon]

131. Pretty sure rape is a crime. even in sweden

he is accused. cant have attackers making cash off their victims suffering.

[Canuckistanian]

142. Well, prove it in court,then. THEN ban Assange.

Neither you or any one else condemning him is a Swedish judge.

The English judge is even having problems seeing an actual crime, based on the evidence presented.

[Pavulon]

144. Commonwealth law not a friend to assange, he will go back to sweden

do time for rape then be extradited here, maybe be extradited here first. Wonder if the rest of his people will get nabbed?

forcible rape is serious.

[Canuckistanian]

146. Wow, you've convicted him already

Say, can you tell me the next Powerball lottery numbers?

[Pavulon]

148. I'll take bets on his ass being back in sweden

and standing in the dock on rape charges from 2 women. I like those odds.

[Lord Magus]

157. How about the bet on him being convicted.

After all, the evidence is rather lacking. It consists entirely of very dubious and unsubstantiated accusations.

[Pavulon]

159. If TWO women testify he raped them by the definition of the law

he may go to prison. one maybe not, but doubles are a problem.

[Lord Magus]

160. Two separate accussations.

They can't corroborate each other.

[Pavulon]

163. I wonder how the law in sweden works there.

probably not like the US system. At the end of the day two rapes is a bad charge.

[Lord Magus]

168. The number of charges doesn't increase the amount of evidence.

Which is basically none.

Sweden has presumption of innocence as part of their legal system, as an original signatory of the European Convention on Human Rights.

[Nevernose]

170. He's not accused of rape; what he did is a crime nowhere else in the world

He's accused of having consensual sex without a condom. It's rarely prosecuted in Sweden and carries a whopping $700 fine.

Key word there is "consensual." Since it's not a crime anywhere else, Assange probably didn't even know it was illegal.

You seriously look at the frozen bank accounts, the state dept pressure on credit card companies, the twitter blackout, the accusations and arrest of some obscure Swedish law than even most Swedes have never heard of, and don't think there's an organized pattern?

[Ex Lurker]

136. Agent Steve has never seen the likes of 4chan

this will get interesting.

[Pavulon]

138. Maybe 4chan is agent steve..

moot and the palin kid.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/fbi/turns-out-4chan-not-lawless-it-seems

[Avalux]

139. LOL!

You have a knack for the absurd.

[Pavulon]

143. How can so much kid porn stay in one place..

boggles the mind. read the article. dimed that kid right out, not so anonymous.

[HEyHEY]

140. The more they close the noose, the more they make it dangerous for themselves

[sabrina 1]

164. They started a cyber war. I wonder if they knew that's what

were doing?

You can't shut down a whole news organization and not expect a reaction.

The Empire Strikes Back! .

[tpsbmam]

171. Jesus. Beam me up, Scotty. I've landed in Orwell's land and I don't like it one bit! nt

[DearAbby]

173. You are all under arrest for discussing

discussing Operation Payback, against that wall over there ------>

this is scary, now it's a crime to speak.

[PeaceNikki]

182. A) They're shutting down sites, not throwing people against the wall

B) They're being shut down for organizing crimes

[Name removed]

187. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lord Magus]

205. No, they're being shut down for TALKING ABOUT crimes.

Which is a flagrant 1st Amendment violation.

[d_b]

202. Anon can't be stopped

it should be fun watching the feds try though.

[Name removed]

207. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

213. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

217. Here's what you do to put a stop to that...

Make sure there's nothing in yr posts that break any rules. Just have a second read through yr posts before you hit the post button and check to make sure they're fine. That way if someone is targetting yr posts, it will annoy them no end when they find nothing in yr posts that they can alert on. I find it works well for me :)

[Name removed]

223. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

228. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TBF]

221. First Amendment? What First Amendment? Folks, this is Obama's DOJ. nt

[Bullet1987Reborn]

227. Yep...this is fascism at work

Except no one is calling it what it really is.

[slay]

229. I'd comment on this

but some mod keeps deleting my posts (oh the irony) without giving me a chance to edit them nor will they send me a message and tell me why they are doing this like I have asked them too. I guess I'm going to have to email Skinner about it. :shrug:

[pmorlan1]

230. Excellent Guardian Editorial

Here's the Guardian's take on Operation Payback

In a cyber attack known as Operation Payback, a group of online activists called Anonymous targeted the websites of companies that had treated WikiLeaks like a bad smell. Visa, MasterCard, Paypal and Amazon have all had their websites, and in some cases their services, affected. Welcome to the world of the chaotic good. It is chaotic. But is it good?

These companies all considered that their association with WikiLeaks damaged their brand image, a reflection prompted in some cases by a helpful call from the US state department. In essence they are trying to have it both ways: pretending in their marketing that they are free spirits and enablers of the cyber world, but only living up to that image as long as they don't upset anyone really important. At Amazon there is real confusion between the two roles: it refused to host WikiLeaks but continued to sell an eBook of the leaked cables online.

The hacktivists of Anonymous may be accused of many things – such as immaturity or being run by a herd instinct. But theirs is the cyber equivalent of non-violent action or civil disobedience. It disrupts rather than damages. In challenging the credit card companies and the web hosts in this way, they are reminding these businesses that their brand reputation relies not only on how the state department sees them, but also on how they maintain their independence in the eyes of their users.

For the rest of the editorial go here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/10/cyber-attacks-payback-time-editorial

[Avalux]

231. Yes, excellent article.

Freedom of speech, of dissemination of information....that's what's at stake here.