Rep Grayson said that the president can direct the IRS to keep the existing tax rates...

[eleny]

...as a new bill is negotiated.

He just said it on "The Last Word" with Lawrence O'Donnell.

[dennis4868]

1. Grayson gets alot....

wrong so can anyone confirm this?

[robinlynne]

2. Grayson gets a lot right!!!!

[eleny]

3. Nobody on the program said he was wrong about his assertion

Seems to me like when you drill down, the presidency has more powers than I've ever imagined.

[struggle4progress]

20. Then you should be able to give a USC or CFR reference for this alleged power

[eleny]

21. Perhaps you can write to his office and ask him for one since he made the assertion

[struggle4progress]

30. It seems to me too implausible to pursue

I apologize if I misunderstood an intended sarcasm on your part

[eleny]

32. Okkeedoke! - Do see my Reply #27 below as an illustration

Apparently a president has done it.

[struggle4progress]

35. The withholding tables do not affect the tax rates; they affect

how much is withheld from pay checks or interest payments; lowering the withholding rate does not lower the ultimate tax bill

[eleny]

28. P.S. Please see my Reply #27 below to at least see where it has already been done by a president

[struggle4progress]

33. Thanks. So that is not the tax tables but the withholding tables

[eleny]

38. Whatever it is, Grayson asserted that the looming tax hikes are a myth

Bottom line is that he said that the president can act to keep things the same after the end of this month as a new bill is being written.

[struggle4progress]

46. Sorry. I don't believe the claim, whether or not Grayson made it

[eleny]

47. Perhaps someone will post something definitive

It was done by President Bush in 1992 as evidenced by his 1992 State of the Union Address.

I hope you can find some reference to support your own belief on the matter. I'm up for learning more.

[bullwinkle428]

6. As compared to Lawrence "There's no way in the world that Congress

can possibly pass any kind of health care reform" O'Donnell (before they actually did)?

[eleny]

9. Lawrence is due a dose of his own Rewrite segment

[sasha031]

4. I saw that,

what is going on here, we have a supposedly dem president who fights and blames his party,

[eleny]

5. It sure got the "wtf" double take from me as I watched the show

[sasha031]

16. I don't know if I can ever forgive him, the way he berates Democrats

I'm done...

[eleny]

18. I'm worried that the Dems in the House will cave, too

We could wind up being pissed at everyone.

[sasha031]

23. I believe they will try their best

look what they are up against,

[BzaDem]

7. The only thing they MIGHT be able to do is delay changing withholding tables, since those take

awhile to change. But that doesn't affect the final tax owed -- that just affects (slightly) when it is owed. And it is open for debate whether they can even do that -- it would certainly be challenged in court and struck down for violating the law if they were deliberately delaying.

[eleny]

11. I got the impression that he could ask them to delay as a new bill was being negotiated

Does that strike you as being constitutional?

[pa28]

8. George the 1st did it and so can Obama.

No additional money will be sucked out of the economy but middle class earners will be facing a tax bill at the end of the year.

That puts pressure on Republicans to allow a middle class extension or face all the blame as the public writes huge checks to the IRS.

[dkf]

10. So if McCain had won he could have kept the Bush tax cuts with a snap of his fingers?

[eleny]

13. Not permanently

It sounded to me like Grayson said the president could direct the IRS to delay the new rates while a new bill was being negotiated.

Perhaps there will be a video coming soon so we can all look at it. Btw, so far nobody on the panel tonight has said that Grayson was incorrect. If someone does I'll post it for sure.

[ProSense]

12. This makes no sense.

How can a President dictate tax rates?

Even if he could, why is Grayson suggesting leaving the tax cuts for the rich in place until the Republican Congress negotiates a deal?

What about the rest of the package, the stimulus provisions, that expire at the end of the year?

[pa28]

14. He's talking about the President directing the treasury to change the IRS tables.

Taxpayers would face a bill at filing time unless Republicans acted to extend the cuts. It's a tactic Bush 1 used.

[eleny]

15. Thanks for responding

By choice I can't view Reply #12.

[Dawson Leery]

19. Do you have more details?

[pa28]

25. Best place to look is the 1992 State of the Union address.

He directed the treasury to change IRS withholding tables to allow workers to temporarily keep more of their income.

[eleny]

27. Here is the sentence from the 1992 State of the Union address...

"And I have, this evening, directed the Secretary of the Treasury to change the Federal tax withholding tables."

Scroll down to the middle of the page or just do a word search for "tax" and it can be found.
http://www.c-span.org/executive/transcript.asp?cat=current_event&code=bush_admin&year=1992

[ProSense]

29. He did not change the IRS tables

he proposed changing the withholding, that's simply giving taxpayers the option on how much they want to have withheld.

And I have, this evening, directed the Secretary of the Treasury to change the Federal tax withholding tables. With this change, millions of Americans from whom the Government withholds more than necessary can now choose to have the Government withhold less from their paychecks. Something tells me a number of taxpayers may take us up on this one. This initiative could return about $25 billion back into our economy over the next 12 months, money people can use to help pay for clothing, college, or to get a new car. Finally, working with the Federal Reserve, we will continue to support monetary policy that keeps both interest rates and inflation down.

link

He goes on to propose some tax changes for Congress to address.

[pa28]

34. I'm not sure I get your point.

Are you saying the Treasury Secretary declined? Changes to the table don't require legislation as it does not change the amount of tax owed it only changes when they owe it.

[ProSense]

40. Right

"Changes to the table don't require legislation as it does not change the amount of tax owed it only changes when they owe it."


So his solution is a gimmick to continue the tax cuts for the rich and let the Republican House and negotiate the deal.

How does this address the problem? What about all the stimulus provisions that will expire at the end of the year?

[laughingliberal]

26. As already said here, George the 1st did it. The President can change the withholding rate.

George the 1st did it in 1992. It doesn't change the person's tax rate but it can keep their paychecks the same until a bill can be passed to restore the current middle class tax rate.

[ProSense]

37. "It doesn't change the person's tax rate but it can keep their paychecks the same until a bill "

Games. That will have a minimal impact on lower income Americans and does nothing to address the tax cuts for the rich.

Grayson is simpy for kicking the can to the next Congress damn the consequences.

The tax cuts for the rich continue, and Democrats lose any leverage they have.

[laughingliberal]

42. Whatever. The point is Grayson was right. The President can set the withholding rate to buy...

time.

I'm dead set against lowering the FICA tax.

[BeyondGeography]

17. Grayson's close tonight was excellent

Obama needs to find a way to reignite his base. There is no center. His success will depend on the Democratic vote that went off a cliff in the midterms, giving us the worst electoral result in 116 years.

The tax issue would have been a perfect place to start.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

22. He also said "We do it all the time."

No challenge from O'Donnell, who was a real prick Tuesday night to his guests because they had never written tax law.

That was pretty sweet.

[eleny]

24. Nobody challenged it yet

True that nobody else on the panel has been in the Congress. But when Lawrence didn't challenge him either my eyebrows went up.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

31. Grayson was outstanding tonight.

Unbelievable, they have yet to receive anything in writing. WTF!

This is so beyond deceitful on Obama's part I just can't believe

what I'm learning as each day passes.

[eleny]

36. The DeFasio interview following the panel was illuminating, too

He said that no caucus ever took on the president of their own Party in this way. A first in our history.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

44. Outstanding show all the way around.

I think O'Donnell got a lot of heat for his interview with Grayson last night.
He sure made up for it tonight.

[eleny]

45. Yeh, the whole show was like an hour long version of his Rewrite segment

Way into the show I thought to myself that he was going to break out of his sweetness and maybe bite off his own hand or something else as crazy.

He deserves an A+ for effort and a stiff drink after tonight's magnificent kitten-like performance.

[Individualist]

39. K&R

[pacalo]

41. I hope MSNBC will continue having Grayson as a guest during the next two years.

His point of view is trusted because he's not afraid to say what he thinks. Continue to give him exposure until he can run for congress again.

[eleny]

43. His ongoing commentary on the guy who won his seat could be interesting

Having been in Congress and living in the district he surely would have some thoughts on legislation.

[customerserviceguy]

48. I would expect that any tax bill that gets passed this year

will have a provision that the existing withholding rates be maintained until new tables can come out and be implemented. I would expect that any tax bill coming up in the next Congress will have provisions to adjust withholding for the balance of the year, to compensate for overwithholding done since January 1, 2011.

That's the way they do these things.

[eleny]

51. "That's the way they do these things."

Grayson said similar when he said something like, "We do it all the time". Sounds like he was referring to the process you detailed in your reply.

[customerserviceguy]

52. Possibly

He could have been referring to the use of an executive order. I was talking about something that would be contained in a real bill that would become law after passing through Congress and being signed by the President.

[Statistical]

49. He spoke impercisely. Taxation is set by Congress. President can direct IRS to change WITHOLDING

rates.

The problem is that if they do that and tax rates do rise they you are stuck with too little withheld.

[eleny]

50. His point was that it would be temporary while a new bill was being written

So, in the end, the obligation wouldn't be changed for 98% or so of Americans.

[Statistical]

53. If the new bill passes....

which is my point. There is no reason to consider Republicans will be any "nicer" in the new year.