Why Matthews Matters (Plame Thread #11)

[H2O Man]

" ‘Wilson’s wife is fair game.’ " Those are fighting words for any man, and I’d just had them quoted to me by MSNBC’s Chris Matthews. It was July 21, 2003, barely a week since a column by Robert Novak in the Washington Post had named my wife, Valerie, as a CIA officer, and now the host of Hardball was calling to tell me that as far as the White House was concerned, they had declared open season on my family.

In his signature staccato, Matthews was blunt: "I just got off the phone with Karl Rove. He says, and I quote, ‘Wilson’s wife is fair game.’ " Before abruptly hanging up, Matthews added: "I will confirm that if asked." As head of the White House political office and one of President George W. Bush’s closest advisers, Rove was legendary for his right-wing zeal and take-no-prisoners operating style. But what he was doing now was tantamount to declaring war on two U.S. citizens, both of them with years of government service. – The Politics of Truth; Joseph Wilson; page 1.

In the past week, testimony and court exhibits have documented the role that Chris Matthews and Hardball have played in the Plame scandal. On 1-25-07, Matthews askedHardball correspondent David Shuster, "David, I guess our show was mentioned there today?" Shuster responded, "Chris, absolutely. … (Catherine) Martin said she was directed by the vice president to pay particular attention to Hardball because, Chris, you were the one focusing so heavily on the questions about, what does this mean? How did this claim get into the State of the Union about Niger? Did the vice president get told about it? Did the vice president know, in fact, Wilson’s conclusions before that got in the State of the Union?"

On July 6, 2003, Joseph Wilson’s op-ed was published in the New York Times. Wilson also appeared on Meet the Press that day, and "describes his trip, and why he came away convinced that no attempt by Iraq to purchase uranium from Niger had taken place." (Wilson; page 453)

On July 8, 2003, Chris Matthews was reporting on the issue. He asked, "Why would the vice president’s office, Scooter Libby, whoever’s running the office, why would they send a CIA effort to down in Niger to verify something, find out that there wasn’t a uranium sale and then not follow up by putting that information out, or correcting that information in the president’s State of the Union? If they went to the trouble of sending Joe Wilson all the way to Africa to find out whether that country had ever sold uranium to Saddam Hussein, why won’t they follow up on that?"

In "Hubris," authors Michael Isikoff and David Corn quote Adam Levine, a member of the administration’s communications staff, as saying that, "Scooter was going nuts" over the media coverage that Wilson’s op-ed was getting. Libby was particularlu upset by Matthews: "He talked about it repeatedly to Levine and Catherine Martin, Cheney’s chief spokesperson. … Libby ordered Levine and Martin to review the transcripts of everything Matthews was saying on the subject." (Hubris; page 265)

It’s important to remember that Libby prided himself in his ability to stay out of the news. "Libby had a good lawyer’s understanding of caution, patience – and silence. Both Cheney and Libby were artists at just going quiet …It was an unusual appearance of his name in the newspaper, and he was excruciatingly uncomfortable," Bob Woodward wrote of an earlier article in a newspaper that mentioned a Libby disagreement with Colin Powell. "I don’t like to see my name" in the papers, he told another administration official. (Plan of Attack; pages 49-50)

Thus, when Matthews said, "It sounds to me (like) a hawk in the vice president’s office, probably from Scooter Libby on down," had advocated putting the yellow cake lie into the president’s State of the Union address, Scooter was furious. Night after night, Chris Matthews was reporting on the Plame scandal.

Even after the Office of the Vice President forced CIA director George Tenet to fall on his sword, and accept responsibility for not removing the infamous "16 words" from Bush’s speech, Matthews continued. He recognized that the idea that Cheney and Libby would go to the Agency’s HQ six times, and pressure them for intelligence on WMD, including the request that they review the Niger rumor, and then not have any follow-up on it, was not believable. As he has reported, when he asked Tenet about this, the CIA director would only say, "Ask him." But Cheney isn’t speaking to Chris Matthews.

Court exhibit 1609 has four typed pages of OVP "talking points" that address a number of what they called the "false allegations" of Chris Matthews. But the OVP response did not stop there. Libby ordered Adam Levine to call Matthews to complain. Levine, who had once worked as a senior producer for Hardball, told the authors of "Hubris" that he called Matthews, and the two engaged in a "shouting match." Levine attempted to pressure Matthews by saying, "Some of what you’re saying about this sounds anti-Semitic." It was a cheap shot, and one that the authors say both Libby and Paul Wolfowitz were pushing. (page 266)

When Levine told Libby that he "had gotten nowhere" with Matthews, they decided to go a step farther. Levine recommended that Libby call Tim Russert to complain. According to information reported yesterday, Mary Matalin also told Libby to call Russert. On July 10, Libby made the call. In the next few days, we will hear Tim Russert’s testimony on that fateful call.

"Hubris" reports that Russert called Neal Shapiro after the call from Scooter. Shapiro would call Matthews’ executive producer, and "urge him to have the talkshow host throttle back a bit. ‘Hey,’ Shapiro recalled saying, ‘this guy is still the vice president’." (Hubris; page 267)

It is in this context that we should view Karl Rove’s call to Chris Matthews, in which he said that the White House would go to any length to destroy those who opposed them.

[mmonk]

1. Plame daily recommend.

[Me.]

2. Previous Plame Threads

Research Forum & Threads 1,2,3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x192

Rosesaylavee has done a fantastic job of posting the Plame threads in the Research Forum.


The Relative Deprivation of Dick Cheney

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x47102

[Me.]

19. Govt. Documents/Exhibits Have Been Updated

A joy to behold:

http://wid.ap.org/documents/libbytrial/index.html

[H2O Man]

22. Thank you.

We should all be taking a close look at the court exhibits.

[JNelson6563]

3. I'm really enjoying these posts from you

Great stuff. Many thanks for doing such a great job keeping it all together so we who cannot follow it real time do not miss a single thing.

:toast: We are in your debt.

Julie

[0007]

39. I'll second that!

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. So, all we have to prove is that Rove knew Valerie Plame was covert

before he made that call?

That's the whole enchilada, isn't it?

[Hepburn]

14. I thought that Cooper testified...

...that Rove told him that Plame worked in the area of the proliferation of WMD. Would that indicate that Rove knew that Plame was covert? IMO, it may not be total proof ~~ but it sure looks like Rove knew a hell of a lot about the status of Valerie Plame and would therefore know her actual CIA status. Let's face it ~~ Rove is a total and complete snake and to pull of his dirty tricks, he would have done a hell of a lot of digging to find out anything he could about any people he felt were adverse to Bush and could expose the lies of BushCo. So...to me at least the tip of the iceberg is showing from Cooper's testimony about Rove knowing about Plame's employment beyond just the fact that she worked for the CIA.

If I am headed the wrong direction with this and other facts of which I am not aware would lead to a different conclusion on my part, someone please help me out and head me the right direction. I have paid some attention to the Libby trial ~~ but not not enough to be up on the details like some others on DU.

Thanks!

[H2O Man]

16. Right.

If we consider the cover story -- that they thought Plame was simply an officer worker at the Agency -- how in the heck would she have known that VP Cheney requested the Agency investigate the yellow cake business? How could she possibly have advocated for her husband to take the trip? That makes no sense at all.

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. The dots are connected.

An ordinary desk clerk wouldn't have had any idea that there was even a Yellow Cake issue in Niger.

[Fovea]

141. Who crafted their cover story?

Who has such a perfect blend of hubris and cluelessness?

[Garbo 2004]

32. Not necessarily, The CIA also had WINPAC in the Directorate of Intelligence working on WMD.

WINPAC: Weapons Intelligence, Nonproliferation, and Arms Control. Just because a CIA employee was working in/on WMD did not mean that the person was covert. The person could be an analyst rather than a covert operative. In fact Libby, who knew Plame worked in CPD, told Judy Miller that Plame worked at WINPAC. Judy presumably would know that the CPD was in Ops, where the covert agents were. WINPAC was a safer thing for Libby to say and he knew it.

IIRC, and H20 Man can provide more info (I have to go to work), Wilson in his book suggegsted perhaps Rove didn't know her covert status. He repeated the story told him ny his sources that Rove was furious with the OVP when it turned out that the leak may have been a serious Fed offense.

[H2O Man]

40. Right.

It's important to remember that Rove is a political operative. He had no serious background in foreign policy, and certainly none in intelligence. He is, of course, an extremely obnoxious fellow, and many reacted to his personality .... Certainly, Joseph Wilson's "frog-marched" comment can be understood as a husband who is angry that Karl threatened his wife. And I suspect that Wilson wanted to put pressure on the weak link.

However, the war in Iraq isn't a Rove project. His assignment was to sell the war, much as he would sell any product, from Bush to kitty litter. The war in Iraq belongs to the neoconservatives such as Wolfowitz and Libby, and to the two politician/bureaucrats they transformed, Rumsfeld and Cheney.

Libby, unlike Rove, had a background in dealing in foreign policy and intelligence. Libby, unlike Rove, had a documented history of advocating invading Iraq. Libby, unlike Rove, was connected with OSP operations, and had accompanied Cheney a half-dozen times to CIA HQ to pressure analysts.

And again, on pages 443-444 of his book, Wilson tells how Libby shared information with Rove, who then ran his big, stupid mouth, and told numerous administration and neoconservative folks about Joe and Valerie. When he found out that he may have violated the law, he "turned on Cheney and Libby and made it clear that he held them responsible for the problem they had created for the administration."

I think that Rove should be held accountable for what he did. It is stunning that he still enjoys a security clearance. I'd like to see him frog-marched. But the two primary targets of this investigation are, in my opinion, Cheney and Libby.

[LonelyLRLiberal]

110. H2O Man, what do you think the chances are that Cheney will go down on this?

I try to follow your reports, but certainly am not informed enough to have a feel for how close Fitz is to taking Cheney out.

[H2O Man]

115. Well, that's a good

question. I think the information that has been made public in the trial at this point would seem to point to Cheney's playing a role that should result in legal consequences. It remains to be seen if, for example, after he testifies, if Mr. Fitzgerald might press charges, perhaps similar to those Scooter is going to be convicted of.

There is also the possibility that the Congress will take this serious enough to investigate and impeach Cheney. And there is also the Wilson's civil case; the evidence that their attorneys are getting seems to show that Cheney was engaged in illegal behaviors not protected by his status as VP. I think it is becoming increasingly likely that his attempts to have his name dropped from the case will be rejected.

[LonelyLRLiberal]

116. Thanks. Mystery sealed indictment may be versus Cheney?

If Cheney goes down, Fitz will be the biggest American hero in a long, long time.

[H2O Man]

118. "I can tell you

right now, there are no secrets. There's no mystery. There's only common sense." -- Onondaga Chief Oren Lyons; quoted in "Wisdomkeepers"; page 64.

If our democracy is regaining its health, Cheney will be investigated and impeached, as a result of people at the grass-roots level exercising the rights defined in Amendment 1 of the Bill of Rights, and convincing Congress to "Do the Right Thing."

It's important that we respect Mr. Fitzgerald for showing leadership. But that display on his part should inspire us to take those small actions that Robert Kennedy described in South Africa, that send out tiny ripples that combine to make the tidal waves which change the course of human history.

No matter if one believes that there are sealed indictments or not, we should all be taking steps to pressure Congress to investigate and impeach. We should enjoy the on-going Libby trial, and use it as a source of information for letters-to-the-editor, and letters to Congress.

[LonelyLRLiberal]

130. H2O Man, you are the best.

Good advice.

I'll write my congresscritter.

[Hepburn]

92. Thank you for the additional info! n/t

[Joe Chi Minh]

58. I believe that, in an article quoted on here, Elizabeth De Vega, a former

Public Prosecutor, destroyed any notion that they could avoid culpability, citing chapter and verse of the relevant legal documents relating to such matters. There was no ambiguity or grey area.

[Garbo 2004]

33. ? The conversation between Matthews and Rove was after Novak's column. n/t

[spanone]

5. Meanwhile, who the hell was running our nation? Gets better day by day.

[global1]

6. It Is Interesting To Note How They Intended To Use This Anti-Semitic Thing ......

against Matthews.

'Levine attempted to pressure Matthews by saying, "Some of what you’re saying about this sounds anti-Semitic." It was a cheap shot, and one that the authors say both Libby and Paul Wolfowitz were pushing. (page 266)'

What about any of this 'sounds anti-Semitic'?

Why was this even trotted out?

Is 'anti-semitic' a clever ruse to silence any critic in any situation?

Isn't it interesting to see how we are manipulated?

I'm glad that Matthews didn't fall for that and back off.

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. Correct.

It's amazing how we've not only been trained to react to certain stimuli, but how people have learned to use it against us.

[seemslikeadream]

7. Some of what you’re saying about this sounds anti-Semitic."

n/t

[Patsy Stone]

9. Swampland Blog: Time Mag (Ana Marie Cox)

http://time-blog.com/swampland/2007/01/everyone_hates_chris.html

"Russert's presumed distaste for Matthews (so difficult not to speculate on its cause! Is it stylistic? Does someone hog the newsroom donuts?) came up in reference to the prosecution presenting notes taken by Libby during a conversation with former vice president aide Mary Matalin. She 'has a colorful way of speaking' (something the press corps does know), and in the course of advising Libby on how to deal with the "Wilson issue," and in particular Matthew's attacks on the vice president, she advised Libby to call Russert to complain and she told Libby that Russert would have an especially sympathetic ear: 'Call Tim. He hates Chris - he needs to know it all.'

"She also gave a talking point: 'Wilson is a snake.'

"The prosecution wanted the jury to see this note, saying it went to "Libby's state of mind." The defense, wisely, choose to argue the note was prejudicial. 'If they believe that Mr. Libby agreed with what Ms. Matalin was saying, they might think he'd do anything to get back at Wilson.'" (author's emphasis)

----

I have to go to work now. :(

[H2O Man]

12. Work?

Doesn't your employer know that I have given everyone two weeks off, paid vacation, to follow this case?

[Patsy Stone]

67. Forwarded your directive on to my VP.

She's thinking about it. :)

[rosesaylavee]

103. Will you write a note for my employer too?

Man, this is incredibly frustrating to be so busy right now when I would much rather watch this unfold moment by moment. Your essays are essential my day-to-day understanding of this important moment in history. Thank you so much for these!

[H2O Man]

106. Yes.

All DUers are to be excused from employment duties next week. They are to be paid time and 1/2 for reading the Plame Threads.

[rosesaylavee]

134. Now, if I only

worked for Democrats that I could send this to ...even in jest. (sigh)

[Me.]

10. The DU Love & Hate Affair With Mathews

may be less hateful in the future. There are times when he drives me crazy, like when he'd get gooey eyed about * or Allen. But in regards to Plame he has been honorable and stellar.

As for OVP and Levine, well that speaks for itself. What a despicable bunch.

In Plame 10, I posted a comment from Christy at FDL. She thinks it could be Matalin who is the mystery witness. Or, after reading this, I can see where it might be Levine. Either would be a good day for us.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. Well, my respect of him is rising.

Maybe he did earn that sunroom in Nantuckett?

[blm]

26. I'm in the same boat - Matthews started out great then clammed up and let too many

GOP operatives slam Wilson's credibility. Sure he was pulled in by those in charge at NBCc, like Russert who headed the team, but still, he let Wilson get raked over the coals for an antire year before the election, while the truth was always there.

It was like Matthews knew he wasn't ALLOWED to go too far to speak definitively what that truth was - and now we know why - Russert was with Matalin all the way on this story. To reveal the truth that was known and stand by it was to indict Russert along with them.

No way would NBCs allow that. Too bad for this nation.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

153. When Chris Mathews is good, he is very, very good...When he is bad..

He drives me up a wall. In This case, Mathews has been GREAT!

P.S. No more disrespect using Tweety, for me.

[maine_raptor]

13. Once again, nice work H20 Man.

I've noticed that lately, Matthews is focusing on the OVP's defense that they "never received a report from the CIA on Wilson's trip". To me this is the key. If they did receive such a report, then it's obvious that they buried it. It very well could be that the REAL motive behind the "get the Wilsons" plan was to deflect and hide the fact of the OVPs deliberate cover-up of the falseness of the Niger claim; for if that falseness came out, then the "Mushroom Cloud" reason for war would be shown for the smoke and mirrors act that it really was.

[H2O Man]

15. "It defies logic"

(to borrow a Patrick Fitzgerald phrase) to have an I-couldn't-remember-because I was way too busy concentrating on WMD issues defense, and then to admit that while the Vice President requested the CIA to investigate the yellow cake business, that the OVP was unaware of Wilson's conclusions. This is especially difficult to believe, when one considers that Tenet had told Hadley in an e-mail and a phone call to remove the Niger reference from a Bush speech in October, 2002.

[maine_raptor]

17. Which begs another question.

When did Wilson finalize and present his report? And how many copies were made and does the the distribution list still exist?

(Ok, a couple of questions......... :rofl:)

If it can be shown (via physical evidence) that the OVP was deeply aware of Wilson's report and buried it in favor of promoting a non-existent nuclear threat, then would that not be evidence of a crime being committed.

Maybe not a "criminal matter", but certainly a political crime. And for that type of crime you need a political remedy: Impeachment.

Note: this is NOT to demean the seriousness of outing a CIA operative; that was just collateral damage in the committing of the political crime.

[H2O Man]

18. It was

an oral report. I believe that a summary report was then prepared for others. It would not, in any sense, make this a "political" crime (though that is a Libby support group "talking point"), any more than Watergate was not a "criminal matter," but rather merely political.

[maine_raptor]

59. Sorry H20 Man

but I had a problem getting into DU after my post above. Just got back on.

Yes, I do remember hearing that the results of Wilson's report were delivered orally. However, knowing the way bureaucracies work, I suspect there's a distribution list even for THAT.

Within the American Governmental Compact - made between the governed and government via the Constitution - is an "understanding" that those who govern will lead the country in non-venal way.

One of the claims of the OVP is that the VP had the right, under various Executive Orders and such, to "de-classify" Plame. But as the trial is now showing, the OVP's reason for changing Plame's status was not "the nation's security interests" but rather "for political considerations". In other word: venal.

When any administration does that; the best and only remedy is impeachment.

I'm hoping that after the trial, the Senate (and/or the House) will conduct a full-blown televised hearing into this whole sordid mess. It may not end up as "sexy" as Sam Ervin's show, but it would make my day.

"Watergate" was a combination of both criminal and political. Used in the broadest sense, it does cover Nixon's enemies list, use of the IRS, etc, along with his criminal participation in the cover-up of the break -in.

[H2O Man]

60. "...the OVP's reason

for changing Plame's status...." I'm not sure what you mean.

[maine_raptor]

65. If, as they claim, he had the power to do that, then WHY do it.

What was so important that caused Cheney to de-classify an American Intelligence Asset?

What was the reason for the move?

Oh, I know we all figure that they needed to discredit Joe.

But when a high governmental official makes the decision to reveal a secret, there is supposed to be a National security Reason. Right?

Because if there was no National Security reason then it was only and solely to discredit Joe. And that, my friend, is what I mean by a political crime.

[Patsy Stone]

70. Parts of the NIE were de-classified

(Go, Stop, Go) so that Libby could get out to Judy what they wanted her to type regarding the use of the 16 words and the Niger claims. It wasn't about de-classifying Valerie's status. Her status was supposed to be a "hush, hush ... on the QT" tidbit -- and that's the illegal part, along with the ongoing debate about whether Darth could de-classify things himself. He thought he could, but just to be safe, he asked Shrub to do it.

Cheney, Libby and Rove weren't sure if the NIE was declassified. If it wasn't, they were in trouble.

[WinkyDink]

85. I don't agree that Cheney thought he had the legal power to reveal a spy's ID.

I think he's lying in this aspect, as well as everything else.

Moreover, if Cheney as V-P HAD the authority re: Plame, he DIDN'T have that same permission to reveal an ON-GOING COVERT action, thereby DESTROYING it.

THAT? Is the very definition of TREASON.

It is Joe Wilson who is tangential, not his wife.

[Patsy Stone]

93. I never said he thought he had the authority to reveal a spy's identity

I said he thought he had the power to de-classify parts of a National Intelligence Estimate. This is not where Valerie's name was, this was where the "Iraq is buying yellow cake" was.

Two different things.

[H2O Man]

71. I'm not sure

what you are saying. It almost sounds like you are saying that Cheney decided to change a CIA NOC's status. Are you saying that you believe Cheney has claimed he had that authority?

[maine_raptor]

143. That is exactly what I am saying.

Cheney believes he has the authority to change her status. I can't find the links, but I do remember reading a couple of Executive Orders that gives the VP that power.

Bottom line: even if Cheney does have that power, his changing of her status compromised a National Security Asset for political purposes, not a legitimate security one. And if so, then that was a breach of the public trust.

[H2O Man]

144. I think you

are confusing Bush's order, which Cheney believed gave him the right to declassify things such as the NIE, with exposing Plame. The VP has never taken the position that he can change the status of a CIA NOC -- legally, anyhow. Her status is based upon her employment, not upon the president or vice president's ability to declassify documents. Those are two very different thngs.

[maine_raptor]

145. Right, her status is based upon employment, but

I do believe Cheney did take Bush's order to mean that the VP had the same power as the President when it came to classifying/de-classifying info (NIE or Plame).

One of the first defenses I heard way back when this case started, was that the VP did have the authority to release her name and therefore did not violate the Agents Identity Act.

If that is the case, and I disagree with it by the way, then even if Cheney is not legally culpable, he is at least guilty of the aforementioned political crime.

I guess all I am saying is that there are two faces to this: one, the legal violation (if any) and two, the breach of Public Trust (outing an asset for political purposes).

[H2O Man]

146. I think that

you are alone in that interpretation. The fact that no one else has taken the position that this has anything to do with this case should be a clue.

[maine_raptor]

147. Ok, my turn to be confused

Alone in what? That Cheney THINKS he has the authority to de-classify her identity?

[H2O Man]

148. Right.

You can read any official document regarding the theory that Cheney can declassify anything -- and they ONLY have to do with the question of if he can declassify documents. In the hundreds of pages of pre-trial motions and transcripts of pre-trial hearings, all of the discussions about declassification of material involves the NIE.

Further, the research requested by a democratic member of the House of Representatives, to the Congressional Research Service, which resulted in Rep. Waxman's 4-6-06 letter to President Bush, is ONLY about the question of "disclosure of security classified information."

There is no serious person who takes the position that there is any question of if the Vice President can expose the identity of a CIA NOC. That isn't an issue in this case. No one involved at any level, including Scooter's supporters, make such a claim.

[maine_raptor]

149. Actually I do remember a "Scooter supporter" making that claim.

Back when the indictments were first announced, I remember seeing Tucker Carlson (and we all know who his dad is) and hearing him say something to the effect that even if Plame was a covered employee, it was ok that her identity was released, because Cheney was the one who probably OKed the release and he had the authority.

Look, my theory is simple in this regard, H20 Man. Yes, the legal papers, etc. talk about documents, but I'm willing to put dollars to donuts that good ol'Dick really does think that he had the right to say to Scooter, "Release the Hounds". That such power is his right as due the office of VP. It fits in, very well in my mind, with Cheney's view of the Executive Branch.

Let me ask you another question, if you do not mind.

When you write, "There is no serious person who takes the position that there is any question of if the Vice President can expose the identity of a CIA NOC", are you saying that every one agrees that Cheney did not have that power?

Yet we now learn that on AF Two, Scooter and Darth talked about leaking her name. Where is the "document" in that?

Ok, so if Cheney said to Scooter: "Leak her name" (ie declassify), then was not Cheney exceeding his authority?

[H2O Man]

150. Dick Nixon

spoke about many things, too. It didn't make them legal. You won't find a single serious source that takes the position that what you are putting forth here is at issue. It's nonsense.

[maine_raptor]

151. LOL

Believe me I' don't think he has the power. But I do think that he thinks he does. Maybe that argument isn't widespread now but you wait, it will be. As more info about Cheney's role comes out, that will become the next line of defense.

By the way, don't forget that Nixon once said that "if the President does it, it's legal."

[druidity33]

76. easy one...

to out Brewster Jennings and ruin any chance of good intel in the near future on WMD in Iraq and Iran. That way they can "fabricate" any intelligence needed, no one will be the wiser and forward the agenda of a war with Iran. I sometimes believe that the Judy Miller embedded unit was meant to plant WMDs but Kelly found out or something went awry... and that BJ was outed in relation to the evidence planting operation.

That's not just a political crime... it's the highest kind of treason.

[bobbolink]

44. The challenge is to get the citizenry to SEE that juxtaposition!

Talk about keying into the USians fear!

:evilgrin:

[Tatiana]

46. Matthews said when he questioned Tenet about Wilson and the yellowcake business

Tenet told him to "ASK CHENEY!"

I don't think Tweety is lying.

[H2O Man]

48. That's very important

Let's look closer:

(1-25-07) Matthews: "What we have been trying to do on this show back to 2003 is just find out one simple bit of information. I can't get it from the former CIA director, I can't get it from him or anybody. And this is it: George Tenet won't tell me, he wouldn't answer the question. I said, how could the vice president ask the CIA about whether there was a deal to buy uranium by Saddam in the country of Niger? The CIA sends somebody down there, Joe Wilson, to check out that story. If they gave any word back to the vice president .... Why did it happen?"

(1-26-07) Matthews: "I've asked George Tenet of the CIA that simple question and he says things like ask Cheney.'

(1-30-07) Matthews: "Well, we also know that the vice president spent six different trips over at Langley, at CIA headquarters pushing for evidence to justify a war. And I know that George Tenet, the CIA director at the time, when I asked him, 'How could the vice president have triggered a trip to send somebody to Africa, with all the money that cost, and not have gotten a report back from the CIA?'

"And George Tenet said to me, to my face,'Ask him, ask Cheney'."

[H2O Man]

51. Also, an article

by Sidney Blumenthal (2-1-07) on Salon.com titled, "How Libby became Cheney's pawn" provides fascinating information. It is subtitled, "The vice president knew the intelligence for the Iraq war was cooked. So he launched his aide to smear the man who took the information public."

He writes, "Cheney was distraught over Wilson's revelation .... Cheney was not trying to correct the record, but to suppress it. he knew that what Wilson had written .... (was) accurate. ....

"Cheney was not seized with a feeling of injustice or a need to inform the public of the truth. Cheney is not a fool. 'Cheney knows how to read intelligence reports. He knows how to read classified information,' Richard Clarke ... told me. Of course, Clarke said, 'Cheney had read the reports' that disproved the administration's line. 'Cheney knew it was false,' Clarke said."

Blumenthal also tells about the reports from the State Department's INR and the CIA report, both of which centered on Wilson's investigation, both of which were known to Cheney in early 2002.

[Tatiana]

57. "Ask him, ask Cheney." This is significant.

Those are powerful words. It appears that Matthews, perhaps on the sly, is trying to point us in the right direction. We know that Matthews is the one who gave Wilson the "heads up" that Rove said his wife was "fair game." We know that he questioned Tenet repeatedly about the yellowcake claims. We know that Libby complained to Russert about Matthews' coverage.

I'd love to find out exactly what Matthews knows. I think he knows a bit more than he has reported.

THANK YOU for providing those quotes above and the Blumenthal article.

[H2O Man]

62. For a couple of years,

I've commented on the DU Plame Threads that "Matthews knows." He's know the deal since before the op-ed. And that is why he was a target, too.

[Tatiana]

68. Hardball is the place for the best analysis of this trial, bar none.

And it's obviously because Matthews knows exactly WHO the players are and WHAT they have done. He talked about the phony invasion back in Feb. 2003, way before the op-ed. He was the ONLY person on tee vee against the war and he knew the deal with the media giving the administration a pass on everything at the time.

Q: What's driving the president?

Matthews: With Bush, it's probably a combination of oil, the father, the politics of the evangelicals in the South, who support Israel, and Jewish voters. It's very dangerous to speculate about motives, though. It doesn't get you anywhere. All it does is agitate people. I believe the president. I believe the words that come out of his mouth. I believe he wants to be a liberator. I think he believes the neo-conservative tracts -- he's adopted the lingo of this crowd. "Weapons of mass destruction." "Regime change." They own the Op-Ed pages. I keep wondering: Is there such a thing as a neo-conservative who doesn't have a column? I'm serious about this. Is it required to have a column to be a neo-conservative? I don't know anybody who doesn't have some kind of column who's a neo-conservative.

On edit

Just want to add that Matthews knows that the CIA did report back to OVP regarding Wilson's trip. I think he's trying to get someone to go on record admitting to that fact.

[otherlander]

86. But then why did he TELL Matthews?

Why would Rove tell Matthews that? Did he want word to get out? Did he think Matthews wouldn't say anything?

[Me.]

102. It Was A Veiled Threat To Mathews Himself

See what we can do. We can do it to you too. Was one part of it. And I've always wondered if Rove, going for a twofer, was also trying to ensnare Tweety, hoping he'd repeat it publicly.

[bleever]

122. I agree.

[Patsy Stone]

66. That article was amazing.

Favorite part: "Libby's obedience produced a comedy of errors wrapped inside a conspiracy." Oh, yes!

[creeksneakers2]

120. My key to that mystery

When Cheney's briefers originally told Cheney about the Niger/uranium intelligence, they told him the story lacked credibility. Cheney wanted to make use of the false intelligence, so like he did with other analysts, Cheney insisted that the story be checked again. Cheney hoped that he could pressure the CIA into confirming the otherwise disbelieved tale. Wilson was sent to cover the CIA's ass.

Over at the CIA, they knew all along that the Niger story was bogus. Since Iraq already had enough uranium for 50 nuclear bombs, and didn't have and wouldn't have the ability to develop a nuclear weapon, everybody at the CIA knew the tale was false.

That's why when Wilson came back his debriefers said his verbal report "added nothing new." Alarms don't go off about matters everybody is already aware of, so no special report was created. Nobody wanted to go tell Cheney the story was false, because whoever did would gain Cheney's disfavor and probably just be sent back for another look. Cheney used repeated requests for second looks to pressure analysts elsewhere in the agency.

Did Cheney just lose interest in the matter? I don't think that's possible. If Iraq obtained nuclear weapons, that would constitute a severe threat to the United States. The threat wouldn't be the kind of thing somebody would just forget about. If Cheney followed up no further, it was because he knew all along the Niger/uranium intelligence was false. His briefers told him that much from the beginning.

[Me.]

20. Eckenrode Is Not On Witness List

Why not?

[H2O Man]

23. Good question.

It will be interesting to see if there are any changes in response to the defense's case.

[Annces]

24. The Free Press being an arm of the people

I am glad this dirty laundry is coming out.

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. Oh my. Now I have to say I have a newfound respect for Chris Matthews.

That took a lot of chutzpah to stand up to Levine and the OVP. I almost want to apologize for every snarky thing I've ever said about Matthews....almost. His testimony is going to be riveting! I REALLY like the fact that he called Joe Wilson and gave him a heads up and said, "I will confirm that if asked." It makes me think Chris Matthews has ETHICS.

I am looking forward to Chris Matthews' testimony. KKKRove is in big trouble, no? I wonder what kind of deal he made with Fitz? If KKKRove called Matthews and said what he said, then he is a player in the outing of Plame. How the hell was he NOT indicted? Hmmmm.

I might add, Tim Russert is a tool and has been for years. I'm so glad he's finally been exposed.

OOPS! on edit....Thank you for another great essay! I absolutely LOVE how you lay out all the hard to follow FACTS of this trial. It's such a pleasure to read.:hi:

[Cameron27]

27. This is fascinating,

I still don't understand on what basis they were trying to push the anti-semitic angle. I know it was a cheap shot, but how did they even nudge that in?

No surprise about Russert, but I'm impressed with Chris Matthews. What a chilling backstory, all their manipulations to push their agenda in the ME. What drives these guys? $$$$$$$ ? Power? Why PNAC? I just cannot understand people like this.

:scared:

[H2O Man]

41. Power.

And they are willing to crush anyone who they think stands in their way.

[Patsy Stone]

28. Also please remember:

In all of this, Fitz only needs to prove the charges in the indictment. All of the other arguments and testimony are there for other, "future" reasons (i.e. appeal, further indictments, etc.). It pays to not get caught up in all the minutiae right now, although we should all file this trial and its arguments and exhibits for future use.

Fitz needs to prove means, motive and opportunity.

No matter what Walton allows in from Scottie (transcript, video, whatever), Fitz has already proved means to lie and obstruct (meetings, phone calls), and the opportunity to lie and obstruct (access to people to get the story out).

The "goes to motive, yer honor" arguments now re: Scottie are about whether Scottie actually did "clear him" from the podium at the behest of the VP. If he was "cleared", he would have no reason to think now, so long after the fact, and absent of this BS reason at the time of either the FBI or GJ testimony, that he was being "thrown under the bus".

Fitz is trying to prove that if he wasn't "cleared" by Scottie, he was fearful of losing his job -- as Scottie's presser indicated was the likely outcome for "leaking". Add to this the fact that Scooter signed a boatload on non-discloure agreements and, thus, there's motive for lying to the GJ.

Remember: Scooter is NOT charged with leaking classified info as retaliation...yet.

Also, one last note on the "the Pres" thing from Cheney: If the press secretary made a statement from the podium on Scooter's behalf, that would seem to have come from the President -- because (at least to the unknowing public) the press secretary is there to get out what the president wants to get out. Therefore it would make sense that Cheney's first draft (in Cheney's mind) would have Scottie say something referring to what "the president" wanted to have put out.

I'm still not sure this implicates Bush as we'd like it to, but it still proves means with regards to Cheney's office spinning the tale to the press.

[fooj]

81. A flash from the past...

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0703nj1.htm

Bush Directed Cheney To Counter War Critic
By Murray Waas, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Monday, July 3, 2006

President Bush told the special prosecutor in the CIA leak case that he directed Vice President Dick Cheney to personally lead an effort to counter allegations made by former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV that his administration had misrepresented intelligence information to make the case to go to war with Iraq, according to people familiar with the president's interview.


Bush told prosecutors he directed Cheney to disclose classified information that would not only defend his administration but also discredit Wilson.


Bush also told federal prosecutors during his June 24, 2004, interview in the Oval Office that he had directed Cheney, as part of that broader effort, to disclose highly classified intelligence information that would not only defend his administration but also discredit Wilson, the sources said.

But Bush told investigators that he was unaware that Cheney had directed I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the vice president's chief of staff, to covertly leak the classified information to the media instead of releasing it to the public after undergoing the formal governmental declassification processes.
<snip>

Hi Patsy
:hi:

Things are heating up, aren't they?

[Patsy Stone]

105. Cheney: Meet Mr. Run Amok

Drunk with power and pretty certain he was invincible, he used all possible avenues to "counter".

I quote Nelly: It's getting hot in heeerrrre.

Patrick Fitzgerald is one reason why it's wise to keep believing.

:hi:

[H2O Man]

107. You have to

admire Mr. Fitzgerald's sense of timing. To send the jury out for the weekend, after hearing that Libby said that he and Cheney "might" have discussed exposing Plame while they were on AF2 .... well done, Mr. Fitzgerald. I'm sure the defense attorneys were pleased. Bet Dick is, too.

[Patsy Stone]

109. A wise man once said

Things are good.

Somehow, I don't think the Super Bowl will make it on to the to-do list this weekend for the defense. Pity.

[bleever]

113. Great reminder, fooj!

:thumbsup:

Contradicts the notion that today's testimony created more distance between Shrub and the crime.

[fooj]

136. Little Lord Pissypants is vindictive by nature.

We'll have to see how this plays out. Fitzgerald has the weight of this country on his shoulders, doesn't he? He must realize that this is for all of the marbles...

:patriot:

Stay safe and stay strong, Mr. Fitzgerald.

[bleever]

138. My guess is that

while his voice might have been shaky in initial arguments, it was only because he knew the full import of what he had (with his team) undertaken in the course of their duties, and that the implications were in fact quite vast.

:hi:

[Me.]

29. Now This Is Interesting

The prosecution is asking to admit (if I have this right) evidence of the non-disclosure agreements that I Liar signed. They want it admitted as proof that he knew he had done something wrong and therefore had a movtive to lie to the GJ and FBI. It looks like the judge is going to allow at least a good part of this in. What I find interesting is that it will be on the record that the liar signed non-disclosures and then, later, revealed classified info. What I also find interesting is something that was discussed on an earlier Plame thread that may lead to this having broader implications, later, down the road.

“There is a footnote on page 28 of Mr. Fitzgerald’s 37-page affidavit that is interesting: "15. If Libby knowingly disclosed information about Plame’s status with the CIA, Libby would appear to have violated Title 18, United States Code, Section 793 if the information is considered ‘information respecting national defense’." It will be interesting to see if Mr. Fitzgerald or Team Libby have any surprises for Judith.”

“about Title 18, United States Code, Section 793
It might be interesting to note that Title 18, United States Code, Section 793 is NOT the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.
It is Espionage.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x79653

[Me.]

30. From FDL

“Bonamici: I would say there is sufficient evidence in the record that Libby had concerns. Addington testified recently that Libby had conversation with Addington that Libby had not done "it." He was making statements to VP and McC through VP that he had not disclosed classified info. What that establishes in part is that Libby was concerned about that nugget. Libby got info from a channel as high as potentially Tenet. Libby tailored his statements so he got the info through non-official channels. if you look at how he tailored his testimony. Schmall raised this issue. Libby's GJ testimony made clear that he was well-aware that it was being asserted that classified info had been disclosed. The non-disclosure agreements make it clear that he was under obligation not to disclose classified info. It was his obligation to check that before disclosing it to people who were not entitled to receive.

B Agreement specifically state that he has been debriefed wrt his obligations.

B: We agreed in our motion to a cautionary instruction. The govt has agreed repeatedly to admit evidence regarding classified nature of Ms Wilson's employ. I think it's ridiculous for the defense to think we'll get up to argue that he actually did something wrong. The defendant has taken the position in this case that defendant had not motive to lie. He opened and said Libby had no motive to lie.

B Your honor, he stamped a number of his documents with SCI and Top Secret, including the note from Cheney. Whether or not he would believe this would fall into the other areas.”

www.firedoglake.com/2007/02/01/libby-live-fbi-agent-bond-2/#more-6957

[robertpaulsen]

37. Uh-oh, I've fallen behind.

Who is Bonamici? Is he with Brewster Jennings?

[Patsy Stone]

38. She

is on Team Fitz.

[robertpaulsen]

52. Who is FBI agent Bond?

Is Marcy just being funny?

[Me.]

53. Debbie

as in Debbie Bond, FBI

[Patsy Stone]

54. I did like the "Bond. Debbie Bond" joke.

:)

[Me.]

55. Bond. Debbie Bond

:rofl:

(she's the agent who took over from Eckenrode)

[mmonk]

100. .

[seemslikeadream]

34. E-S-P-I-O-N-A-G-E

E-S-P-I-O-N-A-G-E

[H2O Man]

42. Yep. n/t

[Spazito]

73. Hmmm, Fitzgerald has someone from the counterespionage

section sitting at the prosecution table, from what I read on firedoglake. Her name is Kathleen Kadien. Here is a small tidbit on her taken from an article about Fitzgerald's team involved in the Libby trial:

snip

Also from Washington is Kathleen Kedian, a relative newcomer to the counterespionage section. Her role in the case involves handling much of the grunt work, like sorting through stacks of documents, says the former DOJ official.

snip

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1130499505379

[H2O Man]

74. Counterespionage ....

On July 24, 2003, in accordance with Executive Order 12333, an Agency attorney left a message with the Chief of the Counterespionage Section of the Department of Justice about concerns that there was an operation to expose Valerie Plame. In September, 2003, the Agency made two contacts with the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice. It seems that there may have been an unstated "hold" put on the referral; some suspect that AG Ashcroft was in no hurry to take this case on. Anyhow, by September 29, it was back to the Counterespionage Section. Those people took it very seriously. They do not "play." And the people who helped Mr. Fitzgerald on this are patriots, in my opinion.

[Spazito]

77. It is interesting that Ms. Kadien is sitting at the prosecution

table, rather than in the background, during a trial, strictly speaking, about perjury and obstruction of justice rather than the outing of a CIA agent. Until it was mentioned on firedoglake, I had no idea an agent from the counterespionage section was actually on his legal team for this trial. It certainly makes me even more confident Fitzgerald has NOT finished his investigation into the outing of Valerie Plame much as some would like us to believe otherwise.

Edited to add clarity due to missing word.

[H2O Man]

91. It's the same division

that has been investigating the neocon/AIPAC espionage case.

[Spazito]

96. Interesting, VERY interesting!

There has been such a wealth of "riches" in the Libby trial itself that I sometimes forget to keep the other branches of the treason tree in mind while trying to separate the "wheat from the chaff". Thanks for that important reminder, H20 Man!

[antigop]

99. When does the neocon/AIPAC espionage case go to trial? n/t

[H2O Man]

101. This spring. n/t

[Me.]

84. Now That Is Fascinating!

Oh the conclusions we can draw. I wonder what the effect will be, when all the breath that's been held for sooooooooooo long is finally exhaled.

[mmonk]

69. He first needs the conviction on the current charges.

Then espionage can safely be charged since the other charges are proven.

[Patsy Stone]

72. Yep

And it is within the scope of the original investigation (obstructed by Libby) we find which espionage statutes were (I'll do the "alleged" thing, tongue in cheek) violated.

The past is prologue.

[porphyrian]

31. I'll kick that. - n/t

[Tatiana]

35. I'm convinced Matthews has been threatened.

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2003/02/14/chrismatthews/index.html

February 14, 2003

<snip>

"Hardball" lost some of its edge in the early days of the Bush administration. Matthews needs an enemy, or at least a cause, to keep him charged. But the show has become must-viewing again for anyone tuned into the nation's latest political drama (one that cable news poohbahs also hope will boost ratings): Who wants to bury a dictator? This time around, though, Matthews is bucking the right. He's the only mainstream cable host who's openly opposing the administration's rush to war, and almost every night he battles bloodthirsty Iraq hawks and rails against spineless Democrats who won't muster the power to stop them.

<snip>

And then what? On to Iran, on to Syria? If you talk to the conservatives who come on my show, they want to squeeze Iran and Syria, maybe Lebanon too. And I don't know how much of this is the president's policy himself. You don't know whether he's thought through how this is going to affect the Middle East. I mean, they contend we're going to be received as liberators, not aggressors or colonizers. Well, how do they know? I mean, somebody honest like Ken Pollack will say, "You know, we don't really know." We're taking on a billion people. A battle for Baghdad could ignite a war with Islam. I think people in the Muslim world are going to see this as the Second Crusades. Every geography book in the world is going to say "American-occupied Iraq" over the map of Iraq. That's going to be the most glaring indignity the Arabs have ever faced. Every school in the Arab world will be a madrass school.

more....

This was back in February 2003.

[bleever]

36. There was a point back there when "Hardball" started advertising itself

as "not just politics" anymore, broadening out to include more celebrity and culture type reporting.

At the time, it looked like they were watering-down their political coverage, and it sure seemed to me to be in response to pressures that everyone in the media were experiencing.

The "not just politics" phase didn't last very long. Thankfully.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

43. Aren't the Wilsons sueing Bush and Cheney privately?

maybe all this will come out when that ever gets heard?

[H2O Man]

45. Cheney, Rove, Libby

and Armitage. Not Bush.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

87. Armitage?

but I guess B* was reading another chpt of my pet goat while all this was going on? Leak...what leak?

[mmonk]

75. Details on the civil suit and you're free

to help their cause if you so choose.
http://www.wilsonsupport.org/

[Rosa Luxemburg]

88. thanks

I didn't know there was such a site

[CatWoman]

47. Man oh man

the way you lay this stuff and and connect the dots.

SUPERB!!!!!

Your'e the best!!!! :hi:

[Uncle Joe]

49. Thanks for the thread H2O Man

Kicked and recommended

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

50. This explains much I did not know about Matthews.

I guess I have had difficulty separating what Matthews does at the behest of his paymasters, and where he exerts his journalistic credentials. He shucks and jives and looks a little wacky sometimes, with bad makeup and drooling and talking too fast, but maybe he ust knows that he needs to conserve his energy and focus - he has only so many bullets, and he keeps them for his Plame segments, using Schuster to nail things home.

I am astonished that I can be surprised by what I am learning even this very day. The enormity of the hatred that resided in the White House is absolutely shocking - it was so pervasive and so over-the-top!

It is like a perfect storm of Ideology, Ignorance and Fear, culminating in the white heat of genuing Hate. I can hardly imagine the rage, as I have only hated two people in my life. But I have a conscience.

[autorank]

56. K&R Matthews had it, clearly;l Russert tried to suppress it...my read.

Damn, H2, you're on a roll. Thanks so much:

H2OMan: On July 8, 2003, Chris Matthews was reporting on the issue. He asked, "Why would the vice president’s office, Scooter Libby, whoever’s running the office, why would they send a CIA effort to down in Niger to verify something, find out that there wasn’t a uranium sale and then not follow up by putting that information out, or correcting that information in the president’s State of the Union? If they went to the trouble of sending Joe Wilson all the way to Africa to find out whether that country had ever sold uranium to Saddam Hussein, why won’t they follow up on that?"

This the logical question that explodes the whole scandal. What's wrong with the rest of MSM, oh, it's that they behave like Russert below.


"Hubris" reports that Russert called Neal Shapiro after the call from Scooter. Shapiro would call Matthews’ executive producer, and "urge him to have the talkshow host throttle back a bit. ‘Hey,’ Shapiro recalled saying, ‘this guy is still the vice president’." (Hubris; page 267)

Which means what. Agnew was a Vice President.

This is great stuff. Matthews gets a hats off. He referred to this war as Napoleonic and opposed it. Nobody backed him up. But he was right. Amazing stuff.

[H2O Man]

61. Thank you.

I think that as the trial progresses, things are falling into place .... both in court, on programs like Hardball and Countdown, and even on DU.

[Joe Chi Minh]

63. I know this could not be more inappropriately frivolous, but I hope

somewhere along the line,we're going to have the opportunity to witness Ben Veniste taking the rise of this crew. I'll never forget how he slowly changed Armitage's bluff, Mr Nice Guy expression into a mask of rage, during his persistent questioning of him concerning his deputising for La Rice, mysteriously absent from that putative Abou Ghraib enquiry.

When Ben Veniste kept bating Armitage with the question, and Armitage repeatedly stone-walled, he'd look around, smiling and all but winking at his colleagues on the panel!

[byronius]

64. Kicked. Wow.

[MasonJar]

78. That said, "Why has Matthews spent so much time pimping for this

crew?" Is it the threats or something else?

[fooj]

79. Update...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x103152

FBI Agent: Cheney told Libby about Plame

[H2O Man]

80. Time to get

VP Cheney on that witness stand!

[fooj]

83. What's your take

on post #81? Does this put B*sh in any type of jeopardy? Thanks again, H20 Man! You lay it all out beautifully.

[H2O Man]

90. Bush had the

authority to declassify the NIE. What is interesting is that he okayed Cheney having Libby reveal only parts of it to Miller (and to lie about other parts!) More, others in the administration were unaware of this acyion; reading the Rice/Fleischer press "gaggle" shows that Condi was unaware it had been declassified.

It is not likely that Bush will be charged with anything on this case, in my opinion. I do not share the belief that some have expressed that Mr. Fitzgerald has his eyes on Bush. I'm confident that Mr. Fitzgerald views this as an OVP operation.

[Catherine Vincent]

95. I think so too.

The Fitz knows this was Cheney's doing. Fitz had his talk with Bush and he realizes that Bush is totally out of the loop on many things.

[brer cat]

98. Please, please let that happen.

crashcart is INCAPABLE of telling the truth, so Fitz will nail him!

This has been a very informative thread, as ususal, H20 Man. Thanks for all the work you do for us. It is MUCH appreciated.

[Alamom]

82. EXTRAORDINARY !...as always Thank you, H2O & all.

[Catherine Vincent]

89. Once again, Thanks H2O Man!

Good Lord! Back in October 2005, Fitzgerald said the bulk of this investigation is done. I'd hate to see how things would be if it weren't!

[bleever]

94. Schuster's on now, on Hardball.

:thumbsup:

[H2O Man]

97. Yes, he is.

Explaining how he & Cheney discussed revealing Plame's identity.

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

104. Visual aide for the occasionally confused...

Here is a handy chart to help keep track of the players:

[Patsy Stone]

111. Oh that makes it MUCH clearer

:rofl:

[LonelyLRLiberal]

112. Thanks! n/t

[Me.]

114. Very

IMPRESSIVE!

[Quakerfriend]

117. Very nice visual! And, a mucho gusto to H2OMan and to Me,

for keeping us all up-to-the-minute.

And, prayers for Fitz's safety and well being throughout.O8)

[Me.]

121. How Lovely Quakerfriend

to see you here.

[Catherine Vincent]

123. That's not correct.

I don't see Clinton's name in there anywhere. :hi:

[mmonk]

125. Do I get 3D glasses with that chart?

[Spazito]

126. Great chart!

What is most fascinating to me are the dates from beginning to end, all take place within a time frame of less than a month, including the Novak article that ended the leak and began the investigation.

It seems there were two primary time frames that become clear in your chart:

The first is from 6/10 - 6/12 where the information on Valerie Plame started circulating "in-house"

The second is from 7/7 - 7/12 where the information was deliberately leaked to the press.

Thanks for your work on this, I have bookmarked it!

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

127. Emphatically NOT my chart...

It's by a guy named Eric Brewer at BTCNews.com. I found it really helpful and took the liberty of posting it here, figuring the attribution on the graphic itself was adequate.

[Spazito]

129. Oops, sorry about that! Eric's chart is great and...

thank you for posting it. I was so interested in checking the chart itself I didn't look any further.

[Patsy Stone]

108. FDL has a list of all of their Plamegate posts from Feb to July 2005

http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/02/01/traitorgate-postings-at-fdl-from-the-start-to-the-present-2905-to-71705/

It appears it will continue as a series, since it says "start to present".

Feb 19, 2005, titled "If it Quacks Like a Duck...", which is about Rove and Gannon/Guckert's relationship and its benefits:

"G/G knew about the secret CIA memo Valerie Plame had written about Joe Wilson. He bragged about knowing of the bombing of Iraq before it happened, information which could only have come from someone with extreme insider knowledge. He managed to get daily passes to white house briefings for two years when Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times journalist Maureen Dowd was turned down."

[Me.]

119. I Think It's Fantastic That There Is So Much Info Out There

I remember very well when Jane Hamsher began writing about Plame. Her articles were/are terrific, especially the ones that had a bit of snark, and I have always appreciated Christy's lawyerly viewpoint. Some newer DUers may be surprised to learn that the first Plame thread/s (now stored in the research forum) on DU were in July 2004. These last two weeks have been a long time coming.

[bleever]

124. Do we know

if Fitz's office has said that its business is concluded with this case?

I've heard that mentioned a couple times, but I don't know if they would let that be known.

[Patsy Stone]

132. AFAIK, there's still an empaneled GJ

How long do they sit? 18 months? He still has time.

Yay!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/07/AR2005120700545.html

New Grand Jury in CIA Leak Case Hears From Prosecutor

The CIA leak investigation returned to a more active stage yesterday as a special prosecutor presented information to a grand jury for the first time in six weeks.

Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald's decision to enlist a new grand jury comes as he continues to investigate possible criminal charges against senior White House adviser Karl Rove. Rove faces possible legal consequences for not telling investigators for months that he had provided information about CIA operative Valerie Plame to Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper in July 2003.

---

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/28/leak.probe/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The CIA leak investigation is "not over," special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald said Friday after announcing charges against I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff.

Fitzgerald said he will be keeping the investigation "open to consider other matters." But, he said, "the substantial bulk of the work in this investigation is concluded."

---

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10097830/

Patrick Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor who has been investigating the leak of the CIA operative’s identity, is continuing his probe and will present additional evidence to another grand jury, according to court papers filed Friday.

He declined to comment when asked whether his investigation was ramping back up after Libby’s Oct. 28 indictment on perjury and obstruction charges. The term has expired for the grand jury that indicted Libby.

[bleever]

135. So "the substantial bulk of the work in this investigation is concluded",

according to Mr. Fitzgerald.

Methinks some have taken this as proof positive that his work as Special Prosecutor is done after this.

That would be mistaken.

And yet: it would also be mistaken to conclude that because he sought and received clarification about whether the SP's mandate included crimes discovered in the course of the investigation that were not cited in the initial directive, that he would pursue justice (as I see it) through every misdeed under every overturned rock.

Maybe Mr. Fitzgerald sees a place where his mandate has ended, but where that of the U.S. Congress might be expected to begin.

But I have a strong feeling that no matter what, the consequences will be good for American democracy.

[Patsy Stone]

139. I think that means the substantial bulk of the "leg work" is done

I think that most of his original case (the outing) is complete (he knows who did it), and this trial is dotting some i's and crossing some t's, implicating Cheney, and, legally, this might have to (or it may be beneficial that it should) come first.

Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.

But I have a strong feeling that no matter what, the consequences will be bad for Dick Cheney. :)

"Sir, have you no sense of Waa?"

[bleever]

140. Cheney will fend for himself, asbestos he can.

That we can count on.

[speedoo]

128. FBI Agent Bond in court today. Bad, bad day for Scooter.

First, even before any testimony today, the arguments by Fitz and Team Libby re, the admissibility of evidence (primarily Scottie McMoonface's press conference video tapes) were absolutely riveting. Even to a non-lawyer like me. Team Libby desperately trying to keep it out, but Fitz argued steadfastly that Team libby's opening arguments about the WH supposedly "sacrificing" Scooter opened the door. And the Good Guys won.

Then, Agent Bond's testimony, as revealed by FDL wonderful live blogging was almost too good to be true. She testified about Scooter's inconsistent statements to the FBI, which Fitz says were lies, and my bet is the jury is in agreement at this point.

[gordianot]

131. I have heard Matthews use those words "fair game" before.

Matthews does not distinguish who may be damaged in pursuit of his "hardball game". He is truly amoral and defines the meaning of media whore. NBC needs to clean house of those connected with this sad episode.

[me b zola]

133. k&r

[bleever]

137. Late night musings on guilt and responsibility:

Bush is not guilty, in the way we'd like to see him proved.

We will not prove that he improperly ordered a CIA agent's cover blown.

We won't see him convicted of lying to a federal authority.

He will not be caught publicly in a falsehood that makes his repudiation a single, remarkable event in American history.

But the ground around him will erode, with his lieutenants guiltlessly dismissed, the blame unassigned, until he stands alone on a tower of sand.

His fall, while inevitable, will not be attributable to anyone; it's just a shame.

And that shame, in history's eyes, will be George's responsibility.

I don't even care about George. I just don't want this to happen again.

[BigBearJohn]

142. Shivver me timbers. That is scary. Purely amazing to see it out in the open.

[Caretha]

152. Thanks H2O Man

From all the lurkers like me who rarely if ever post. We're watching and reading daily, and I for one am grateful to have such an articulate, intelligent man sharing his insight and knowledge with us.