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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 05:06 PM
Original message
Venezuelan government deliberately targeting opponents
Amnesty International urged the Venezuelan authorities to stop targeting government critics following a series of politically motivated arrests. At least three individuals seen as opposed to President Hugo Chávez were arrested and charged in March alone. "Charges brought for political reasons against critics are being used to silence dissent and prevent others from speaking out" said Guadalupe Marengo, Americas Deputy Director at Amnesty International.

Read the rest at http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=ENGPRE011162010〈=e

And when you read it, please note that this report is dated April of this year, and that the gist of Amnesty International's complaints/reports targeted at the Venezuelan government add up to "potential for suppression of political dissent."

I also invite to you peruse Amnesty International's reports on Colombia. You'll find the overall tone of the reports is that the Colombian government has been conducting a campaign of systematic torture and murder on a vast scale for over a decade, meanwhile receiving ever increasing amounts of money from the US government.

I also invite you to google both "human rights Colombia" and "human rights Venezuela" (or use the search engine of your choice) and briefly compare the results and decide for yourself if the news coming out of Venezuela is as important as what's going on in Colombia.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. the news coming out of colombia is more important
And it is worse.

Is your point that we should not print bad news about Venezuela? Is your point that Chavez is good just because Venezuela is not as bad as Colombia?

I ask this because you seemed to be upset the other day that not all of us think Chavez is doing the greatest job in the world due, in part, to the very high murder rate.
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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Chavez isn't perfect and there are problems in Venzuela
Edited on Mon Dec-13-10 06:39 PM by mudplanet
but focusing on the situation in Venezuela while ignoring or minimizing or even distorting the situation in Colombia is like a doctor seeing a cancer patient and focusing on the patient's acne.

And some of the poster's seem to think FARC is the problem in Colombia, while FARC may be the solution.
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. There are two "patients"
One thing which really bothers people is when their nations are lumped together or they are all considered "little brown people". The problems in Colombia are quite different from the problems in Venezuela. Your leanings are evident, you are proposing the violent overthrow of a government by a marxist guerrilla, right?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. You mean, do I think it would be a good thing if FARC won. Absolutely.
I ain't proposing it, I'm saying that the FARC, in this fight, is "the good guy" and I'd celebrate a victory of humanity if and when it overthrows the current government.

I'm also fairly sure that you can't tell the difference between Marxism and communism.

If you're looking for what raygun called "the moral equivalent of the founding fathers" than you can look to FARC. Unlike the corrupt mercenaries he was referring to in Nicaragua, whose leaders can now be found living it up in Miami on my tax dollars.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I think it's somewhat beside the point to try to evaluate the better side in a 70 year civil war.
The purpose of all outside parties should be to try to bring the violence to an end--and certainly NOT by more violence; rather by a peace negotiation.

Even Castro has said the FARC should lay down their arms. But he said it in the hopeful context of late 2007, when Uribe had asked Chavez to negotiate with the FARC for hostage releases, when so many Latin American and world leaders and others were working to get a peace negotiation going, and when FARC commander Raul Reyes was still alive, the FARC's major hostage release and peace negotiator, whom I believe was trying hard to end it. He was the key leader within the FARC who wanted to do so.

The U.S./Bushwhacks and Uribe violently ended all those efforts and hopes when they dropped 500 lb U.S. "smart bombs" on Reyes' temporary hostage release camp just inside Ecuador's border--slaughtering 25 sleeping people--an act which almost started a war between the U.S./Colombia and Ecuador/Venezuela. This was totally unnecessary and unjustified--not just an egregious violation of international law--but a massacre that had no point, other than ENDING HOPES FOR PEACE.

The U.S. "war on drugs" was segued INTO the U.S. "war on terror" by the Bushwhacks. Thus, the U.S. ended up not just aiding and abetting Colombians killing Colombians, and expanding Colombia's civil war into a major war profiteer boondoggle (with at least $7 BILLION in military aid), and attempting to expand that war into neighboring countries, but I strongly suspect that U.S. forces--either military personnel or military 'contractors'--have been actively engaged in the killing. This is pretty much incontestable in the bombing/raid on Reyes camp. The Ecuadoran military stated that Colombia just doesn't have the capability to do what was done--the surveillance for a nighttime pinpoint dropping of U.S. "smart bombs" or the plane and the pilot to do it. (The U.S. military contractor Dyncorp is the likely participant.) But there are some additional pointers to possible U.S. involvement in the general "turkey shoot" that was going on against non-combatants in Colombia--against peasants, trade unionists, human rights workers and others. Recently, for instance, the U.S. State Department "fined" Blackwater for "unauthorized" "trainings" of "foreign persons" (don't know who) IN COLOMBIA "for use in Iraq and Afghanistan."

There is quite a bit of this kind of circumstantial evidence, indicating a U.S. scandal that is being covered up. I won't go into it here. I just want to make the point that, while numerous other parties were trying to broker a peace, the U.S. and Uribe were acting to prevent it--actions that included outright treachery against Chavez on the hostages negotiations that he was asked, by Uribe, to undertake, including endangerment of the hostages' lives, the bombing of Reyes' camp, and the later "miracle laptop" absurdities right out of Donald Rumsfeld's playbook (whom I think was personally involved in that series of events).

You can't bring about peace by heavily arming and aiding and abetting one side in a long civil war. What you create is general mayhem and horror--with one side dropping 500 lb "smart bombs" on people armed only with rifles or maybe some rockets (or, in the case of Reyes at that time, not fighting at all--trying to arrange hostage releases) and instigating or committing the murders of all sorts of OTHER people who are "suspected" of sympathizing with the "wrong side" (the leftist guerrillas), or are just political opponents of the U.S.-supported fascist regime--and fostering other horrors, such as the Colombian military recruiting boys with offers of jobs, murdering them and dressing their bodies up like FARC guerrillas, to up their "body count" to earn bonuses and impress U.S. senators (to keep all that military booty coming).

All outside parties should be trying to STOP the violence--which is, at this point, a true "cycle of violence" in Colombia that the participants themselves may be addicted to (cannot stop of their own volition, have been through too much)--in order to find a peaceful solution. Colombia has a lot of resemblances to Vietnam. It also has a lot of resemblances to Israel/Palestine and has some resemblances to the IRA/England. All three were/are civil wars (nationals of the same country killing each other). In the first two cases, the U.S. could have been what used to be called "an honest broker" (that old phrase from a more hopeful time), at several points along the way, even if the U.S. was inclined toward one side. It could have done so and it didn't. In Vietnam, the U.S. deliberately escalated what was a civil war into a massive slaughter (2 million Southeast Asians killed, all told, and more than 55,000 U.S. soldiers). That was a war that could easily have been stopped in 1954 with UN sponsored elections. The U.S. nixed those elections and created and armed a highly corrupt U.S. client state in the south that did not have majority support. In Israel/Palestine, the U.S. helped create a legitimate state (Israel) but time and again failed to insist on fairness to the Palestinians--the core problem that has dragged the people of the U.S. into the "war on terror." In both cases, more and more armaments to one side--all driven by war profiteers--is somehow narrated as a "solution" when it is not. And now the U.S. has done the same thing in Colombia--arming one side in a civil war, and abandoning what could have been--peace.

There is only one honorable thing for the U.S. to do in Colombia, at this point, and that is to butt out. This will not likely happen because of the war profiteer element and other multinational corporate intentions. The U.S. also owes the Colombian people a real investigation of the horrors that have been committed there, including full disclosure of any U.S. complicity, and restoration of justice (including no longer protecting Uribe from Colombia's justice system). Neither is that likely to happen. (The opposite is clearly happening.) Although death squad murders have continued this year, there is some hope that the Santos regime, which has succeeded Uribe (and is of the same rightwing party) may want peace in the region and possibly at home. I hope and pray that that is the case. It will not be an easy peace with so much economic injustice in Colombia-- bound to continue with the rightwing in power--and so many psychological wounds to get over, but it could be a beginning. It cannot likely be done without outside help. I hope and pray that the "honest brokers" in the region (and I think Chavez is one of them; also Lula da Silva) are called upon to help and will not suffer treachery for their efforts, as they did before. I think a peaceful settlement is a possibility, but won't be for long. The Puke Congress here is full of foaming-at-the-mouth Miami mafia warmongers, salivating at their Diebolded return to power. They want blood. They have said so.

A peace effort would begin with the cessation of violence. The process of a real settlement and end to this long civil war will take time. It won't be easy. But it CAN be done, as the IRA and England have shown. And even the worst horrors of U.S.-supported "dirty wars" of prior decades CAN end in democracy being re-established--a peaceful way for all parties to participate in the political process--as numerous countries in Latin America have already shown, including Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Bolivia, Ecuador, Uruguay, Paraguay, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, Venezuela and others. Brazil and Uruguay now have former leftist guerrillas--people who were jailed and tortured--as presidents of the country. Chile until recently had a president whose family members were tortured to death by Pinochet. Paraguay now has a president whose family was persecuted by the fascists. Nicaragua has a president who headed the armed leftist revolution of the 1980s. El Salvador elected a president (too young to have fought) from the once-armed revolutionary party. It CAN be done. The peace consensus is overwhelming, even with the giant war machine to the North likely trying to sabotage peace. It could be the signature achievement of this entire generation of new leaders in Latin America. They cannot do it without being invited to. That is up to Santos and other parties in Colombia. I hope and pray that that is what they want and that they, too, understand that achieving peace in Colombia is the most important gift they can give everyone in their country and the region. I am convinced that the help is there, if they will only ask.

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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Good points and points that miss entirely
Civil wars happen for a reason. In El Salvador it happened after people who acted within the law and the system were targeted by a corrupt oligarchy which began a systematic and widespread campaign of torture and murder.

It happened in Colombia more or less the same way. And in Guatemala. There were differences, but the dynamics were almost identical.

In Argentina, Brazil and Chile, there was no civil war. Fascist and militaristic forces took control of (reasonably) democratic governments and proceeded with long campaigns of torture and murder of anyone they suspected of not supporting their aims and sharing their "anti-communist" fervor.

There was a lot of violence on both sides, but the overwhelming weight of the evidence shows that the vast majority of crimes were and continue to be committed by the right in every case.

I use "systematic" a lot when describing the campaigns of torture and murder that these fascist and militaristic governments engaged in because it is important to recognize that their crimes weren't aberrations or sudden responses to provocations but well thought out and deliberate strategies of terror over long periods of time. And in every case, after they lost, they demanded immunity for their crimes. And most often they got it.

There is a right and wrong side in these conflicts, and a good and bad guy. In almost every one of these conflicts one side was working to improve the lot of the average citizen, and the other side was working to protect the privileges of a wealthy elite.
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Why assume those who disagree with you are ignorant?
I'd like to know what you think is the difference between Marxism and communism.

I'm not looking for a ray gun. I'm interested in debating issues in general, as long as I know a bit about it. I wonder, what do you make out of Santo's victory? He did steam roll Antanas Mockus in Colombia. Do you think a FARC candidate would do better than Mockus?

Mao said "Power flows from the barrel of a gun", one has to acknowledge a rifle is a very powerful change agent. But in the end, the rifle has to be backed by ideas. And if the ideas don't convince a large portion of the population, then the rifle is useless. I remember when Cuba had the civil war, in 1958 the government had most of the guns, planes, tanks, you name it. But the movements had the people. I was there, and I assure you, there was no doubt in anybody's mind who was going to be the eventual winner.

I also wonder, have you seen what happens to a person when a bullet makes a hole in their body? I have. I don't advocate violent resolution of conflicts, it's such a waste. Maybe you should reflect upon what you just posted, and defuse some of that anger, re-think what you are going to do the rest of your life, and whether you will be in the end, no better than that which you hate so much. I know it's trite, but Yoda was right, you have to be able to control the Dark Side of the Force.
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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Have I seen what a bullet does to a person when it makes a hole
in their body? I've spent time in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras so, yes (not that I'd have to leave Houston or New Orleans so see that). I've seen what bullets do to bodies, and I've seen what a systematic campaign of government terror does to minds as well, such as having one's brother "disappeared" and then having to go to the sites where bodies are reported dumped daily, naked and obviously having been tortured to death in the worst possible fashion. This is an ongoing thing in Colombia and it's being done with my tax dollars, and you seem to think that I'm suggesting violent resistance to it without considering what it really means. You're so awfully grown up.

If you're not angry about your government supporting that kind of action, what kind of person are you? Even Jesus and Gandhi got angry about injustice. And Gandhi didn't win the battle on his own: a lot of brave Indians died in violent struggle to make independence happen.

Maybe I should reflect on what I posted? Maybe you should think before you speak.

You seem to think that by not being angry about being made complicit in mass torture and murder against your will you'll end up, in the end, somehow better than those who are angry and dare to take a stand against evil. I guess all those soldiers who fought and died in WWII and all the people who supported them were morally substandard because they believed that all the moral superiority in the world wouldn't stop ruthless murderers or close death camps so they got angry, put down their plows and took up their swords and fought the bastards who were committing the crimes. Fuck me, what was I thinking. We could have formed prayer groups and had book discussions and letter writing campaigns and eventually the Nazi would have succumbed to our moral superiority, left France, Poland, Holland and Belgium and resurrected those 25 million dead Russians and rebuilt their homes. Just as, eventually, through our passive resistance and morally superior attitude, the Colombian murderers will decide that it would better in the long run if they allowed people to exercise their political rights to work peacefully for change, and then they'll resurrect those 50 thousand unarmed people they murdered and reunite them with their families, and we'll all live happily ever after.

I'd have some respect for your superior attitude about violet resistance if I thought you actually paid a price for it, i.e., if you could show that same dispassionate moral superiority after your husband or wife was found naked and dead, dumped in a ditch outside of town after being brutally raped and tortured by your government because she dared to show up at a meeting in support of the right of the mother's of other children who had "disappeared" to know where the bodies were.

Or, maybe you should read a little history. About El Salvador, for example. The government ran a campaign of systematic torture and murder for over a decade, and they used my tax dollars to do it. It went on and on. It didn't matter how many people were tortured and killed, as long as it wasn't their children. And finally, around 1990, some of the leadership of the FMLN got wise to what was going on. So they took the battle to the neighborhoods of the rich with a "mini-Tet" right in the best neighborhoods in San Salvador. And a miracle happened overnight. Suddenly the Salvadoran government became intensely interested in ending the conflict and within a year a peace accord was signed and elections happened. The violence didn't end entirely, but to a large extent El Salvador became a functioning democracy in which everyone had the right to exercise their political rights without fear of being murdered with impunity. Yes, ideas, but ideas AND guns and the moral fiber to stand up for what is right and fight against what is wrong.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. I disagree totally..
maybe if they won 30 years ago, but FARC has just devolved into a narco-gang like the militias
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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. How would you suggest that they fund the revolution? I'm sure that
if they had the patronage of the largest economic and military power on the planet, they'd be more than happy to forgo engaging in drug trafficking and kidnapping to finance their revolution. At least when the FARC kidnaps someone it doesn't torture and kill them while having a drunken party - like the Colombian government forces do.

The Colombian government DOES have the patronage of the largest economic and military power on the planet and YET THEY STILL ENGAGE IN NARCOTICS TRAFFICKING. Just do a google search on paramilitaries and you'll discover that 1) they are, for all intents and purposes, an arm of the Colombian government, 2) they engage extensively in narco-trafficking (who do you think is building those drug submarines?), and 3) are also closely tied to wealthy corporate interests in Colombia. The militias are the Colombian government.

FARC's involvement with the cocaine trade is a smoke screen and, to a very large extent, the government's struggle against the FARC is a struggle for greater market share.
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Maybe the best solution is to avoid violence
Have you considered an option whereby violence is avoided, the FARC is demobilized, and then people are free to live in peace without fearing kidnapping and bombs? The Colombian left can then try to win power via the electoral process. I say give peace a chance.
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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Actually, my stance is that Chavez IS good. And that what is happening
in Venezuela is, for the most part, good. Ditto for what's been happening in Bolivia, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, and El Salvador. It's called democracy. It's really fucking messy and the worst possible system of government imaginable except for all the others.

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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. I like Chile's politics
They seem to have fair elections, and they have a free media. Brazil also seems to be doing fine. And check their economic growth rates, they are outstanding. Argentina does have some problems, I just visited and there are many structural problems, including the use of fake inflation data, which is really hurting the working class.

Venezuela's democracy seems to be a very odd sort, the President just asked and got a law passed by Congress which allows him to rule by decree. This is a very bizarre practice, for one of the branches of government to hand power over.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I think the point of the post has to do with balance.
Edited on Mon Dec-13-10 09:18 PM by Peace Patriot
It's not that no story that points to problems in Venezuela, or that points to misssteps, failures or bad tendencies of the Chavez government should never be published or promulgated. It's that, while there are many palpable, provable, obvious and at times startling achievements of the Chavez government, NONE IS EVER COVERED by the corpo-fascist press. Not ONE! EVER!

Something's wrong with this picture.

Venezuela was just designated THE MOST EQUAL COUNTRY IN LATIN AMERICA on income distribution, by the US Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean. Is that not important news? Is that not the bottom-line condition for democracy to work--according to most political scientists--narrowing the gap between rich and poor? And should that not be one result of a good working democratic system--that everybody has fair play, a chance to improve, upward mobility of the poor? Well, here it is. That's what's happening in Venezuela. NOT ONE STORY. Not one!

This has been true of EVERY Chavez government accomplishment. No, it is not a perfect government, democracy or country. But Jeez! WHY has it been voted for, three times, by big majorities? There's another story NEVER covered--WHY? Not to mention HOW (in a transparent election system--far, FAR more transparent than our own--that has had international election monitoring groups crawling all over it).

Nothing. Nada.

And then, when somebody criticizes the Chavez government for something, it is not only the only kind of coverage that the Chavez government ever gets, it is often itself distorted, as a news story--clarifying context entirely left out, historical context entirely left out, Chavez defenders not quoted, only rightwing opposition quoted, often anonymously (as with the infamous Associated Pukes' "His critics say..."). We see negative headline after negative headline after negative headline, sometimes referring to something negative that is real, on its face (such a the murder rate in Venezuela and slowness of the Chavez government to do something about it), more often referring to something that, while it may be real, is presented in an unfair, distorted context or no context (such as Chavez's non-renewal of RCTV's broadcasting license), and including entirely made-up negative shit (such as that Chavez is anti-semitic) handled without even a remote gesture at fairness.

And that's it. On the spectrum of downsides to upsides, as to governments, it's ALL downsides. There is NO upside. So what's wrong with Venezuelan voters? Are they stupid peasants or what? They've voted for a completely ALL-DOWNSIDE government, time and again, by big majorities, and they--what?--don't realize what a terrible mistake they keep making?

How Chavez and his government are treated by the corpo-fascist press is not only unfair and propagandistic, it doesn't make any sense!

Chavez supports gay rights and equal rights for women. Do you EVER see these arguably courageous positions for a Latin American leader mentioned, anywhere in the corpo-fascist press? THAT is a news story--one of many that are NEVER EVER EVER covered. But we hear all about the blackouts, inflation and street crime, over and over and over again.

Meanwhile, we find out that, next door, during the Bushwhack (and U.S. taxpayer supported) ($7 BILLION!) Uribe regime, political opponents of the government have been all grouped together by Uribe as "terrorists" and have been terrorized by the Colombian military and rightwing death squads--trade unionists, human rights workers, teachers, community activists, journalists, academics, political leaders, peasant farmers--MURDERED, in the thousands, getting death threats, living in fear for their lives, and ROBBED of their livelihoods and possessions--mostly peasant farmers FIVE MILLION of whom have been displaced from their lands, mostly be state terror and U.S. "war on drugs" toxic pesticide spraying--THE worst human displacement crisis on earth--with the peasants' lands then given to Uribe's cronies, big drug lords and multinational corporations. We find that Uribe has been illegally spying on everybody in Colombia whom he considered an "enemy"--judges, prosecutors, members of congress and all of the above. We find that 70 of Uribe's closest political cohorts are under investigation or in jail, for bribery, spying, ties to the death squads, drug trafficking and other crimes. And now we find that this horrible leader is being coddled and protected by the U.S. government--which has acted to remove witnesses against Uribe from Colombia and put them out of the reach of Colombian prosecutors--and that he has claimed "sovereign immunity," here in the U.S., from even having to give a deposition (in the death squad case against Drummond Coal), and will probably extract this monarchical status from the U.S. State Department (which is clearly trying to cover something up in Colombia, probably Bush Junta complicity in some of these Uribe and Colombian military crimes).

This is not a political misstep, an over-enthusiastic ruling party, a highly popular party and government taking advantage of its power to get a little more power, as virtually every known highly popular party and government throughout history has done (including the Democrats during the New Deal era). This is not Venezuelan prosecutors getting a bit enthusiastic about targeting rightwing political corruption--a known hazard of every justice system in democratic countries in the entire world. What has been happening in Colombia is NOT NORMAL. It is HEINOUS. It is mind-bogglingly EVIL.

The Chavez government may be making missteps and taking unfair advantage but there is nothing they are alleged to be doing that is not "bread and butter" politics here in the U.S. and everywhere else. The check on any such missteps or powermongering in Venezuela is the Venezuelan people themselves. They hold honest, transparent elections. They even wrote a recall provision for the president into their constitution. (The rightwing, aided with U.S. taxpayer money, tried that once, and lost, big time.) They have not seen murder and mayhem all around them, inflicted by their own government and military, for decades. They have firmly established their human and civil rights. They have had a government that has fostered and expanded their human and civil rights, including encouraging maximum political participation, especially by previously excluded groups. Venezuela is a fully functioning democracy, with aspects to it that are better than our own. Here, the poor have no say in any goddamn thing. They are the majority, though they have virtually no representation in government. Venezuela is much more balanced--politically, socially, economically--than it has ever been.

(Edited to add: The Venezuelans can throw Chavez out, if they don't like him. They did inflict a sting on him in the prior by-elections--though the socialists did well in the recent second by-elections. That's the breaks. FDR also had up's and downs (and ran for and won four terms in office, and was also called a "dictator" by the rightwing press!) Uribe is an entirely different story. If the truth were known, it took the CIA to get rid of him. That's what I think happened. He was planning a coup to stay in power and Panetta said no, for his own reasons--probably the need to start hushing up Bush Junta activities in Colombia. And Uribe's successor, Santos. was CIA vetted and approved. The U.S. has a $7 BILLION investment in Colombia (at least). Nobody rules over that much U.S. largesse who is not U.S.-approved. Again, things are NORMAL in Venezuela. It is a normal, functioning democracy--kind of amazing actually--given the rightwing coup attempt in 2002 and other destabilization efforts, funded by you and me. That is not true in Colombia. Colombia is neither a functioning democracy nor an independent country. It is a U.S. client state.)

In any case, there is a BALANCED story in Venezuela, that receives NO balance in our corpo-fascist press. They flip the board over and flick "the other side of the story" into the trash bin. It is beyond the beyond biased and unfair.

And compared to Colombia, Venezuela is like night and day. That's is why about a quarter of a million Colombians have fled over the border into Venezuela for refuge from the Colombian government and the Colombian military and its death squads. They hear that peasants have a right to life, in Venezuela. They don't in Colombia. They have a right to nothing, in Colombia. They also hear that workers have decent wages. They hear that even the poor can get a college education. They hear they have a chance, there, for a decent life. And THAT burden gets inflicted on the Chavez government, again with no notice by the corpo-fascist press (except perhaps where they see a chance to criticize Chavez--he hasn't done enough for Colombian refugees!) They promulgate all the crap that that pathological liar Uribe can throw about Chavez "harboring FARC guerrillas" and SAY NOTHING about what Colombia's 70 year civil war has done to Venezuela's border areas, through no fault of Venezuela's or the Chavez government. Instead, Uribe wants to spread that murder and mayhem into Venezuela, a well-known Rumsfeld technique for destroying societies and robbing them blind.

Some of Colombia's horrors have made it into the corpo-fascist press. Things are so bad there that it can hardly be entirely ignored--funded by $7 BILLION in U.S. tax dollars. But, on the whole, the corpo-fascist press has taken the CIA's tack of coddling and protection of one of the most awful fascists that the U.S. has ever supported. Meanwhile, they can't get enough of beating up on Chavez, day after day after day, negative story after negative story (not to mention the vitriol on the editorial pages and on our PUBLIC airwaves). You'd think he was Josef Stalin. You'd think he was Hitler. He has done NOTHING to harm ANYBODY. He's just a president, struggling to govern in the Bushwhack-induced Depression, like every other leader of the free world--a president with significant achievements in poverty reduction, economic growth and improvements in human and civil rights. That's what one U.S. diplomatic cable called him--Hitler!

It's Uribe and the Bush Junta who have actually committed crimes that could merit that name. Chavez has done nothing to merit it. NOTHING!

Where is the balance in the corpo-fascist press on these matters? It does not exist. The treatment of Chavez and his government is THE most egregious example of Stalin's "Big Lie" propaganda technique, of repeating a simplistic lie over and over, to paralyze the human mind's ability to think for itself, and to create stupid robots, that I have ever seen in our so-called news media. They are the Stalins, not Chavez.

--------------------
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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. There are different standards of proof
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. That's ridiculous. Tell you what, when they find mass graves in Venezuela
I'll take you seriously.
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Better read the thread carefully
You are kinda lost.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. No. Maybe you better read it again.
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Chavez doesn't hide bodies in mass graves, and you know this!
Psssst. Check the trunk ...




;)

:hi:


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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. Anytime someone tries to fight corruption they are accused of stifling political opponents
There have been enough threads started by Chavez detractors accusing Venezuela of being the most corrupt country in the universe to know that corruption is a problem, and at the same time any efforts to fight corruption are sited as examples of authoritarianism and political oppression. I'm also going to go out on a limb and suggest that opponents of Chavez are probably more guilty of corruption based on their behavior during the 2002 coup attempt.
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Beta Pictoris B has the most corrupt government in the Galaxy
Beta Pictoris Betians are famous for their corruption, which is caused by the overall lawlessness in the planet's main continent, Fantagoria. There are no statistics for the whole universe, we're still waiting for figures from the Magellanic Clouds.

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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Get off the internet and go back to your Festivus Party
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I'm not using the internet, I use Galactic-net
We have a repeater station on Deimos.
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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Where can I get some?
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. You have to join the Galactic League - Costs $5
Plus you have to swear upon a holy book of some sort you will not advocate violence or support anybody who does.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. They must be socialists, then.
Damn them!
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