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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:26 PM
Original message
What Our Minds shall Conceive, We Can Achieve....
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 02:36 PM by FrenchieCat
and so it holds true that what our mind does not conceive cannot be achieved.

If we talk like losers, walk like a losers, and talk about losing, we lose......

For weeks after the Inauguration we heard from the media non stop,
how the Republican party was obsolete,
washed out and a minority party for the next 40 years.
This was a narrative presented to us by the Corporate media for a reason,
to allow us to concentrate on anything but the Republicans.

Then in the last few months, of course, as the media loves to do,
the story has been about a Republican comeback, and the demise of the Democrats,
more than anything else.

This only goes to show the power in repeating the same thing over and over again,
especially when holding big microphones can certainly make it come true.

Without doubt, I admit that Democrats haven't helped themselves much on this.....
But more to the point, the more ranking Democrats (that's us) concede that we are losers,
the more that will be the inevitable result.

I have read enough throughout the blogosphere to realize that
many are deeply disappointed with our elected Democrats,
because these disappointed folks say so every single day.....

I personaly don't believe that things are nearly as bad as some repeat it is day in, day out,
but certainly they have good points, and even I believe a lot of what they say to be justified.

So we can talk about the demise of Democrats in the 2010 election all we want,
and we can feel perfectly right in our assessment,
but we should also note that this talk that we speak,
also is contributing to that downfall.

We ought to agree that it is not surprising that we have the capability to do this,
talk Democrats right out of power (and some believe that this has been earned),
but the surprise is that we would actually want to do this,
as it will not serve us well in the end. In fact, I doubt that it will solve even
one important issue, let alone the many that we discuss out in the blogosphere.

It is understood that the media pushes the downfall of Democrats for its own obvious reasons,
as corporate media is part of corporate America after all,
and Corporate America has its own agenda to follow, one most of us are familiar with.
However, there is no reason that we should be buying into the negativity in the way that we are,
except if we ourselves also want that narrative to end up as the reality.

I would suggest that no matter our thoughts on this,
we should thoroughly realize that just like the economy can be talked down,
because a big part of the entire system relies on the mentality of those affected,
so too does our attitude here on the web contribute to the state of mind of the general public.

The Corporate media loves the fact that so many in our ranks are negative at this time,
as this is exactly the result that they seek.....
and unfortunately for us, many are playing right into their hands, even if it is for their own and very different reasons......
so don't think that I don't understand that.
But still, no matter, those folks are still contributing to the negative aura
that will soon become a mindset that will not easily be undone.

Certainly, there are some in our ranks who specifically want to achieve just such an end,
and so I can only request that those who really wish this nation well to comprehend that
for each negative opinion stated on the web about Democrats,
the opponent cheers them and encourages exactly that state of mind.

I respect dissent, but I also hope that folks understand that at the end of the day,
voters will only see the overall message of the pile-on in general,
and very little about specific discord in particular.

I only wish the best for Democrats in general, if for no other reason,
than because at the end of the day,
I fully realize that it will be this nation that will be made to suffer, if we should fail.

I for one will be keeping my eye on the prize, and the prize is not for Democrats
to suffer massive loses in 2010. That's a Republican prize....and a corporate prize.

Like Rush rightfully stated for himself and those of his ilk early on,
a few short days following the President's inauguration,
he hoped that this President fails.

I for one will not give Rush that assistance,
or help him attain a win on this subject,
regardless of what I personally feel,
and the fact that I could easily criticize the Democrats into oblivion
if that is what I truly wanted to do cannot play a part.

In fact, I will, not so much for myself, but for the sake of our shared future,
attempt to boost Democrats and to support them throughout the rest of this election season,
and offer constructive suggestions without beating them over the head each and every day.

Once the elections results are in,
I will critique what I see as their/our failings.
But that's after the 2010 elections.

That's my Democratic gameplan for this election season,
and I'm gonna be sticking to it....
because this nation's future depends on it.

I'm a Democrat, and because I am, I want Democrats to succeed,
and Republicans to fail. That folks should be the motto as elections near.

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SalviaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Great post!! I agree totally.
Any time you find yourself agreeing with what M$M is telling you, it should be a wakeup call. They control a powerful medium that can change minds and shape opinion. Question everything. The most insidious reports come from the Good Morning America type shows and the evening news shows and the little snippets at the breaks in radio shows. Meme's are repeated as if fact and therefore become fact in the long run. Make no mistake about it, every word is crafted for a very specific reason... and its not to further our democracy... it is to further the interests of the corp media owners and their corp contributors.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. and mind you......
certainly we may end up agreeing with some of what they say for our own personal reasons,
but at the end of the day, it doesn't help us to agree with the Pundit CW.....
never has and it never will.

In fact, we have to fight these memes, because the end results if we don't
is too extremely dire.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. "I'm a Democrat, and because I am, I want Democrats to succeed, "
here here!

I agree ..... yes, even the stinky ones.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. That's really the bottomline, isn't it........
That my choices are to work for the party, work against it,
or do nothing. Of course, in the end, I would suggest that
those who do nothing or work against the party, should no
longer be relevant if we end up losing....because in reality,
they will have been a party to it. Harsh but true.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
19.  That is your opinion. Opinions are not the same as fact..
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 08:37 PM by saracat
the only ones who will be responsible for losses in November are those who work against the interests of the people. Not ALL Democrats are good.In general there are better Democrats that Republicans but the gap has been closing. I will never vote for a Republican but there are some Democrats that do not deserve support either. I will not support any anti-choice Dems .I will not support a Democrat who doesn't support Civil Rights.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. You got it right!
"the only ones who will be responsible for losses in November are those who work against the interests of the people."

Not just some, but all....I agree.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. The point being that not ALL elected Democrats represent the interests of the people.
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 08:41 PM by saracat
Anti-Choice, Anti Civil Rights, Anti- environmental, and Pro-Corporate/Anti-People Democrats don't represent the interests of the people and should not be supported.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Name a current Republican in power who is better than a Democrat in power.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Susan Collins is better than Ben Nelson.I wouldn't vote for either.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Collins is not better than Ben Nelson!
At least Ben Nelson voted for cloture!

Here's your sweetheart doing her talking.....

Collins focuses on the "lawyering up" of the Christmas airplane bomber by Obama Justice officials after less than an hour of interrogation -- and without consultation with administration intelligence experts.

She calls it an "irresponsible, indeed dangerous, decision."

"When the Obama administration decided to treat Abdulmutallab as an ordinary criminal, it did so without the input of our nation’s top intelligence officials.

The Director of National Intelligence was not consulted.

The Secretary of Defense was not consulted.

The Secretary of Homeland Security was not consulted.

The Director of the National Counterterrorism Center was not consulted.

They would have explained the importance of gathering all possible intelligence about Yemen, where there is a serious threat from terrorists whose sights are trained on this nation. They would have explained the critical nature of learning all we could from Abdulmutallab. But they were never asked.

President Obama recently used the phrase that ‘we are at war’ with terrorists. But....
... unfortunately his rhetoric does not match the actions of his administration.

The Obama administration appears to have a blind spot when it comes to the War on Terrorism.

And, because of that blindness, this administration cannot see a foreign terrorist even when he stands right in front of them, fresh from an attempt to blow a plane out of the sky on Christmas Day.

There’s no other way to explain the irresponsible, indeed dangerous, decision on Abdulmutallab’s interrogation. There’s no other way to explain the inconceivable treatment of him as if he were a common criminal.

This charade must stop. Foreign terrorists are enemy combatants and they must be treated as such. The safety of the American people depends on it.


I’m Senator Susan Collins from Maine. Thank you for listening."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/01/weekly-remarks-why-stop-interrogating-terrorists.html


She's a fucking liar, and a fearmonger! :thumbsdown:
and the sad part about it is that she's from a much more "liberal" state
than Nelson is from.

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Susan Collins is pro-choice. Ben Nelson is not. And she is not my sweetheart.
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 01:35 AM by saracat
interrogation of this particular criminal and how he is tried is a subject upon which intelligent folks might differ. A women's rights to determine her own medical care and her parity as an equal human being is not a subject that is up for debate. I have no respect at all for Ben Nelson.and yes, I do think Susan Collins is better.She cares about women.Ben Nelson works against women.His record on Choice as well as his involvement in the Senate HCR Bill says it all.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. But I guess to some, choice isn't a real issue.Winning the game
is what counts.Human rights issues must be kept off the screen so that "winning" issues merge forward.This is why criticism cannot be encouraged.Guess what? The same folks that campaign against it, vote against it.But it matters not to some. Just that we win. What we win doesn't matter.And that idea of "moving the agenda forward " because we were the winning team? Apparently we can't do that or we won't win again!
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. Criticism is necessary
Otherwise nothing ever changes. I would concur that the best means of gaining change is from within. Take over your local Democratic party and subvert it from within, as Thom Hartman says.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. The same criticism every single day, without ever discussing
the positives, and there are certainly some is not required.

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. It isn't the same criticism everyday . New mistakes keep being made. As for the
progress, it is mentioned but it has been little in comparison. We will continue to complain until corrections are made.We have a Democratic Administration and have a right to expect competent leadership. The problems must be exposed before they can be fixed. if folks hadn't been screaming the public option would not now be even being reexamined. The time for complaining is before bills are passed and the time for fixing things is NOW while we still have a majority.We have no time to wait.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Kick Start!
Corporatemedia brainwashing..it's their job. Not to inform of the progress made by the Obama White House and the Democratic Party but to instill negativity and FEAR among the citizenry..and by gum it works on so much of the population.. or our country would not have fallen for the bushcheney coup!

The results of the coup were so Enormous that even the mediawhores couldn't stop the Perfect Storm..but, they're doing everything they can to get those Regressives back in Power.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. Even Ahmadinejad's mind? His conceives the elimination of the State of Israel.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Fail.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. In other words, if the admin does something wrong or stupid, and you mention it here.
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 05:28 PM by freddie mertz
The media will see it and report on it, which will mean It is YOUR fault that they are losing ground.

Therefore, the best the thing to do right now is to shut up and stop criticizing our elected officials, if they are Democrats anyway, until after the election, when it will be too late to change the course.

This looks like circular reasoning to me, and for this reason, as Spock would no doubt opine, seems "Highly Illogical."

At least to me.

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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Going by the same logic
People like Ed Schultz, Thom Hartman, Randy Rhodes and Rachel Maddow should also pipe down and tow the line, lest woe betide us all.

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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. You're right. Well said.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm guessing by the unrecs that
there are those in this forum who don't want anything to do with Conceiving Democratic Victories in the Fall?

Yeah, they can unrec all they want but that's not going to stop Progress being made.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Maybe some just reject the argument that our criticism leads by definition to Dem defeat.
I would submit that the DC Dems are doing very well at screwing things up on their own.

They need no help from us.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. I am a Democrat but I do not support ALL the actions of ALL Democrats and I will not vote blindly
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 06:06 PM by saracat
in lockstep. I wish the best for this nation and if the democrats want the best for the nation, I will support them.
I will not support anti-choice Dems. I will not support anti-LGBTL Dems. I will not support pro corporate/anti- people or pro war Dems. I will not support bills containing any language supporting those issues. I will not support democrats who support the dismantling of the public education system and the demonetization of unions. Folks like that are not real democrats in my opinion because they do not support the values we use to describe ourselves as Democrats.

And it is not "understood that the media pushes the downfall of the Dems for obvious reasons". That is merely your opinion. We have many real journalists who speak the truth such as Helen Thomas and Christiane Amnapour and countless others. We have talking heads, Like the O'Reilly's and such but we also have our own. Those are simply blowhards on either side of the aisle.

The media promotes what sells. There were no complaints when they sold Obama in 2008. Questions are being asked and it is a good thing they are. Questions should be asked of ALL politicians on either side no matter how much dish detergent they sell.

I am a Democrat, and if my questioning , or criticizing causes a Democrat to "lose" in 2010, or 2012, it is likely they didn't deserve to win to begin with. I would not have voted for Joe Jefferson in LA or any number of folks just because they had a "D" after their name.Harry Truman said it best, And Obama has often quoted him, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

Ronald reagan said the first commandment was "thou shalt not talk ill of a fellow republican". That is a Republican maxim. We Democrats are free to criticize our own because we believe in the search for truth and not putting lipstick on a pig.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Why do you hate our freedoms?
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 07:37 PM by freddie mertz
Just kidding!

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. LOL - that's a great poster. nt
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. It's not the healthy dissent that I am talking about.....
I'm talking about the nonconstructive repetitive name calling and absurd criticism, including the posting of dumb pictures..... about everything and anything.

Folks are free to do it, but when it comes time to determine who is to blame,
don't come up with an excuse, because you will have been part of the problem,
and I will point it out everytime.

So it ain't about Uncle Sam telling us shit,
it's about having enough common sense in trying not to defeat our own self,
and then trying to believe that blaming someone else will do the trick.

Doh!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HuV_NHMdPd0/RyF5EqIFknI/AAAAAAAAAZ8/jSiiMqDhCGc/s320/donkey+suicide.jpg
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #20
34.  But doing all that you state above in support of a favored politician is
wonderful, no matter how absurd it looks and no matter how many folks are run off by the sheer dogmatism and silliness of it all.:sarcasm: Some of us have our own opinions that have been developed by years of effort and activism and do not need to hear lectures from the newly evolved.Some of us are out working for the candidates we believe in and trying to recruit others to replace those who have failed in their job performance.The politicians alone are to blame for any failures.The buck stops at their desk.It is foolish to blame Democratic voters and activists who are be searching for a better way. The fact that all Democrats do not agree with your premise does not make them wrong or responsible for failure.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. You don't have to agree with me.
You don't even have to post multiple times in this thread.

I didn't expect everyone to agree.....
I just didn't expect anyone to hijack this thread
and make it be all about them; it ain't.
It's about the future of this country.....
and if was up to you, Obama wouldn't even be President...
so you're not an indicator as to what we should do
in order to move forward, that's for sure.
You've been mad since before election day and then some!
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. Since when is responding to an argument posted in an online forum "hijacking" a thread?
My critique is aimed squarely at the logic of your argument, and has nothing to do with you personally.

You claim that "certain" kinds of criticism or dissent are or will be responsible if the Democrats have a bad election this year.

I disagree, and propose that it is certain Democratic leaders, from the White House to Congress and the DNC, who are laying the foundations for failure.

Since this is a still at least the shadow of a democracy, and our internet forums are not shut down for posting criticism, as they are in China or Iran, then I think you just have to accept that diversity of opinion will continue to flourish across the interwebs for the time being.

As for Obama, I am pretty certain that my votes for him in the PA primary and the general election helped get him elected.

So let's be clear about that, since you are making about "me," or "us," or whomever.

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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. Disagreeing with you is not hijacking a thread and you do expect everyone to agree with you
And you get upset when they don't. Then you cry about how mean people are to you. Except when you are doing the insulting, THEN it's okay. Frankly YOU are no indicator of what is right either. You do nothing except defend and applaud everything the president does or says while drooling over pictures of him at the beach. Very few take you seriously anymore. When we see your name, we already know what the thread will say. blah blah blah blah.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. You do seem to expect everyone to agree. If they don't you state they will be responsible for the
possible democratic losses.And how have I hijacked any thread? By responding to statements I disagree with.You continue to discuss your OP and I respond. That is NOT hijacking.And I, and any other poster have the right to respond multiple times to what I consider to be an mistaken concepts.

I voted for Pres.Obama and I am a Democrat. You insist because he wasn't my primary choice I am not an"indicator of what we should do in order to move forward" How dare you? Broad brushing and dismissing large numbers of Democrats and American citizens because they didn't agree with YOUR primary choice?

Are you implying some sort of superiority? That is just arrogant, an misinformed. This is a democracy. President Obama is just as much our president as he is yours and we have just as much a right to give and defend our opinion on how to "move this country forward"

In fact, it just might be,that some of us who disagree with you, by virtue of experience, and positions held,( And I count among them many congresspersons,senators, officeholders and public figures who endorsed other candidates) might actually have more justification for holding credible views on how to move the country forward than others.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Persecution complex
U haz it
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #20
37. Seems to me that ANY criticism of Obama or any issue he might support is off limits to you
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. What?! That can't be true! nt
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
17. My mind conceives affordable health care.
:think:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. good. At least that's positive
and isn't contributing to the GOP kicking us in the ass from 2010 on.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
45. No one is contributing to the GOP except Dems who support GOP policy.
Dissent will not be stifled.

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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
23. Kick &Recommended!
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thanks FC. I agree... (and counter one unrec). . . n/t
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dcsmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
30. i am a communist and i want democrats to succeed..LOL
unless we end up with a viable communist or socialist party...LOL...
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
31. K&R n/t
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
32. I am a Democrat because its the closest thing to Positivity for the All... Pubs think for the Small
Themselves and their Tribe, Clan, Group....etc

They do not think for the Whole..thats their down fall,,,their Negative Traits and Approach...their selfishness in persectives and limited views

We Democrats can do it if we set our minds to...a Benevolent Approach to our Society, warts n all.

Very good post Frenchie

K n R
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
36. Why don't you send that shit to Obama and the Senate/House Dems
We supported them, got them the majority, the WH and they sit there cowering in front of the Pukes begging them to be their friends. We did our fucking part.

Now our part is to tell them to get a spine, do what we sent them to do or to get the fuck out.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
44. Kick
:kick:
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
46. Sorry, your bona fides are well known.
You who did not even bother to vote until 2000 are good at being silent.
A CA Democrat who thinks she has time for scolding others is a self deluded lazy bones who should be out BEING a Democrat, not spewing and condemning others. Meg Whitman Starring in: A2: Judgment Day. Coming to a town near you, produced by Apathy Pictures.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Whee!
That's all, just whee!
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