42% of Americans consider themselves conservative, only 20% say they're liberal (Gallup).

[Drunken Irishman]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/141032/2010-Conservatives-Outnumber-Moderates-Liberals.aspx



We can poo-poo these numbers all we want, but it's what I've suspected for a while now - Americans aren't liberal.

A great deal are moderate, but as it's been since at least the 80s, more Americans identify themselves as conservative than liberal. And it isn't even close.

You can blame whomever you want, but this is ultimately what Pres. Obama is facing.

Which puts into perspective his pragmatism.

Now it's safe to say Americans are disillusioned by the definition of liberal - but after watching how many Americans seem content with Republican control, I'm not so sure there is a disconnect there.

We're just a conservative nation. And we're lucky to have elected a president who at least can represent a great deal of liberal values.

Because if these demographic numbers are right, it's surprising we even have Democratic presidents.

[phleshdef]

1. Its why Democratic Pres have to seek middle ground while Reps. can do what they want.

[JoePhilly]

20. Look at those numbers again.

[phleshdef]

24. I looked at them very clearly. Almost half are conservative and are twice as much as liberals.

That means they only need to win over a third of those that claim to be moderate.

[JoePhilly]

27. Sorry, misread your post ...

thought you were surprised why they can jam whatever they want through ... my mistake.

I agree with you.

[depakid]

63. It's why people who haven't the first clue about research methods make sweeping statements

that have no basis in reality.

Seemingly self-serving statements- but actually self defeating statements.

[formernaderite]

110. unfortunately most people don't even know what the labels mean

I've met many democrats who call themselves conservative, while still voting democratic. They are on some social issues, but not on economic issues. This is why I prefer the term "progressive", particularly when I get into arguments with my Libertarian friends... who really claim they are the only true liberals lol

[valerief]

2. Gee, I wonder who tells America 24/7 that being liberal is a bad thing. nt

[Pirate Smile]

3. Liberal has been smeared to have a negative connotation to a lot of people while

conservative has not.

Republicans have spent decades demonizing "liberals".

[Ready4Change]

10. Exactly.

Decades of well funded, persistent, propaganda. Ironically, much of it coming from the so-called 'liberal media.'

[Cosmocat]

92. fin right ...

it is a crying A shame ...

This country would be in such a better place if we were allowed to move toward out more balanced position - a reasoned mix of both sides of the paradigm ... But, the media carries water for the corporations/ultra rich and have effectively made "liberal" into evil, and "conservative" into a positive, as much as these arsehats are a never ending disaster ...

Years ago I stopped watching CNN after I wanted to smash the TV watching Wolf Blitzer refer to every republican he talked to as a "GOOD conservative" ... Meanwhile, only the flat out and out progressive media people talk about democrats, progressive or liberals with anthing other than disregard and disdain ...

[mariawr]

68. ..correct. nt

[rucky]

113. I wonder if it would be different if "progressive" was an option instead?

[supernova]

4. I live in the wrong country

is what I sometimes think.

[City Lights]

38. Same here. nt

[vaberella]

60. Come to France....Wait it's the same thing here---they just are crazy about the environment. n/t

[Arugula Latte]

80. Me too.

Wish I'd been born in Europe. Too bad my ancestors emigrated to this country.

[Tarheel_Dem]

5. Sounds about right. I don't know how this breaks out...

on an issue by issue basis. I'm hoping that most Americans are left of center on the social issues. A democrat has to be able to appeal to a broad cross section of the electorate to win nationally, and that's just the way it is.

[Jennicut]

6. The article points out that about half of Dems describe themselves as liberal and half as

moderate. So we do have a moderate to right leaning country. Obama does face this issue. He pulls us barely to the center or center-left and the right freaks out.

[Pirate Smile]

26. And the left freaks out because he doesn't govern like the entire Democratic Party is

liberal - when, like you said, it is half liberal, half moderate.

This does point out the dilemma he has to deal with.

[TheKentuckian]

7. Seems to make it even more crucial to make hay while we have the sun then

We'll never get those votes anyway so the job is to roll roughshod over them and let em pout and cry.

If the people don't like what we do then they'll vote the other guys in. Trying for a permanent majority is the problem and our bogus formula just leaves the impression that we don't believe in what we preach.

[spoony]

47. Bam. Can't nail it harder than that. nt

[NJmaverick]

49. The Congress is not liberal and the Congress people are well aware of polls like these

so even if the President went the crash and burn route you suggest, he still would be able to produce little in the way of passing far left laws.

[TheKentuckian]

72. Yet they still fail??? If you're damned if you do and damned if you don't

Then die with your boots on.

[RedRoses323]

105. Yep!

:toast:

[Salviati]

8. Rather than polling people about what label they would apply to themselves.

I think it would be more instructive to poll people on the issues, and see where they fall. I think that many people would be surprised to discover how "liberal" they are. Especially if conservative and liberal policies are spelled out in plain, non-bullshit language for people to choose between.

Which is why Obama needs to sell the American people on good policy, not politics. When we water down policy, making it less effective than it could be, in essence we've already ceeded victory to the republicans by deigning that their "concerns" have any merit whatsoever.

[Zenlitened]

16. "Which is why Obama needs to sell the American people on good policy, not politics."

:applause:

[JoePhilly]

25. You think the media wants to do that ... dig into the details?????

Look ... let's take health care ... the media sees the poll numbers ... if you focus generically in polls, people were AGAINST it ... you poll the specifics, people were mostly FOR it.

There is a big difference between the REALITY of any legislation and the POLITICS that surround it.

The problem for us on the the left is that we expect them to be the SAME ... they are NOT.

If you want to get the SPECIFICS you want, then you must also win at the political spin level.

What we do on the left is knee-cap our side anytime they get some of what we want, but not all of it.

And the GOP and the Media, takes our disatisfied folks, adds them to the crazy far right dissatisfied folks, and claims that most Americans think the bill is too far LEFT. And then they use that to claim the country is really center right.

If you want to WIN big, you have to show you are thrilled when you win small. It builds from that.

And endless bitching gets us nothing.

[Uzybone]

41. +1

[DCBob]

69. +1

well said.

[socialist_n_TN]

85. Yep. That what you should look at, not labels

It's going to take a LONG time for the 30+ years of RW propaganda against the word "liberal" to wear off, if it ever does. Ask respondents if they believe in the idea of the Social Security system or Medicare, or Medicare for all, or the public option. Then on to social issues. On ISSUES, I would bet that Americans are more "liberal" than conservative.

[KingFlorez]

9. It goes way beyond labels

I suspect that many people who identify as moderate lean somewhat to the left and some who identify as conservative lean more moderate.

If you look at the issues that people support, the country is less conservative. Most support a social safety net and many more are leaning socially moderate, with a good amount being socially liberal. If this country was conservative, there would be a lot less progress.

[David__77]

11. The word "liberal" makes me cringe and think of LBJ or Joe Lieberman.

There are a lot of people who are leftist politically, whether they know it or not, who would never call themselves "liberal." I'll bet if they replace it with progressive the numbers would eventually start to change.

[vaberella]

61. LBJ was bad? Many on DU prop him as a hero and a liberal/progressive? n/t

[David__77]

70. Vietnam.

That alone consigns him to hell.

[vaberella]

71. Not on DU. I've brought that up too. n/t

[nemo137]

88. No, people aren't stupid.

They see through libertarian/conservative and they'd see through liberal/progressive.

[jenmito]

12. So 55% of Americans are either moderate or liberal...

that's terrible news for the teabaggers!

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

13. The health care bill

didn't help.

[Hello_Kitty]

14. It's a self-identification that often has little to do with a person's actual positions

I know self-identified conservatives who embrace many progressive ideas. Similarly I know self-described liberals who are pretty conservative on a lot of things.

[TwilightGardener]

22. I agree--what label one gives oneself does not mean that much.

[tekisui]

15. The labels skew the data. If the same people were asked about

specific policy positions, the results would likely show strong support for liberal policies.

[demmiblue]

17. Amazing that this has to be explained!

[Drunken Irishman]

21. It depends on the policy, I guess.

[alsame]

31. I have found this to be true among the self-identified

'conservatives' and Independents I know - they are pro-choice, pro-marriage equality, agree with the repeal of DADT and support comprehensive immigration reform.

[LiberalFighter]

54. Most voters don't know the difference between liberals and conservatives.

And too many don't know good policy from bad.

[JI7]

64. like when states vote on same sex marriage and elect politicians ?

[tekisui]

75. There is evidence that strongly suggests people answering the label

question are inconsistent with their answers on policies.

The country is more conservative on same-sex marriage. But, increasingly moving left on it. However, not all those who are conservative on GLBT issues are not conservative on many other issues. Some liberals are just homophobes.

I don't disagree that the country is more conservative than liberal. It has been that way for a long time. But, I do not accept that liberals are only around 20%. Many liberals refuse to identify as such since the term has been so degraded in recent decades, even by some that lean to the left.

[imnKOgnito]

82. I concur

Every self professed moderate I know would more accurately identify with the liberal spectrum if not for the negative connotation that the word has been assigned over the past decades. That's why I make it a point now to self identify as a liberal. Living as a self-professed liberal in the light of day is the best way to fight the intentional smearing of the word, in my opinion.

[DrToast]

18. Most Americans don't know what the hell those words mean.

[moondust]

81. +1

Not a politically astute electorate IMO.

[Innovative]

94. How many Americans know what political conservatism and liberalism mean?

I'd bet not many.

[last_texas_dem]

19. It's also safe to say that the majority of Americans couldn't give even a half-ass

definition of what the labels "conservative" and "liberal" mean in the political context. Sad but true.

Additionally, self-identification polls don't track with polls that ask Americans' views on an issue-by-issue basis. There's no denying that Americans have been running from the "liberal" label since the 1970s, but their views on major issues have tended to either stay in about the same range or have become more liberal.

[Robeson]

23. Sad, isn't it?

[KansDem]

28. I'd like to see a poll asking "Are you 'pro-corporate regulation' or 'anti-corporate regulation'?"

In the wake of TARP and the Gulf disaster, we might find some "conservatives" who will vote the latter...

[SoCalDem]

29. Gallup. eom

[Hissyspit]

30. That's like saying that artists should only make crappy art because people

supposedly already know what they like. Writers should only write about popular subjects. Leaders can only do exactly what is perceived as acceptable.

Or... they could show the way.

[Drunken Irishman]

33. Or like building a 1,000-foot residential tower in Merced, California...

THINK BIG.

I bet that'd work.

[opihimoimoi]

32. There is a Flaw in there somewhere....has to be...otherwise Palin.McCain would own the Oval Office

[Drunken Irishman]

34. Not really...

McCain received 45% of the vote in 2008. That would suggest he received a great deal of self-identified conservatives and a few moderates.

Pres. Obama probably received the 20% of self-identified liberals, along with a good bulk of the moderate vote. Which, if counted, almost adds up to his 53%.

[phleshdef]

36. I think its also safe to say that Sarah Palin scared away moderate independents like the plague.

[Drunken Irishman]

37. Agreed. Especially in Florida...

Obama probably doesn't win Florida if McCain chooses Lieberman over Palin.

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Well, if 'moderates' include both Palin and Obama voters

that is too broad a group to be said to be a group. Do you think voting for Palin is moderate? I think radical is the word for it. A group who might vote for Palin or Obama is just spinning wheels and marking cards, not thinking.

[phleshdef]

44. I don't think any significant number of moderates went for McCain/Palin.

Thats my whole point. If you were to compare the number of moderates and liberals from this poll alone, it adds up to barely a little more than the percentage of people that voted for Obama or a third party candidate. My theory is that if nothing else scared moderates away from the McCain campaign, Sarah Palin was the nail in the coffin for them on that front.

[Drunken Irishman]

56. It'd be foolish to say Obama got ALL the moderate votes...

Just as it would be foolish to say he got ALL the liberal votes and McCain got all the conservative votes.

There are people out there who consider themselves moderate, but voted for McCain/Palin. And yet, they could've supported Kerry in 2004 and Gore in 2000.

[opihimoimoi]

62. T/U for confirming.....them poll numbers mean shit...GOP owns STUPID

[TEXASYANKEE]

35. Hogwash.

This country has been pulled so far to the right, that now the "center" is actually what used to be considered "right." Consider this -- when was the last time you saw an honest-to-goodness Liberal on television? And when was the last time you saw an honest-to-goodness Conservative. Usually it's 20-1 (conservative). Most people in this country wouldn't recognize a Liberal if they saw one. The term has been demonized and the vast majority of Liberal media (with the possible exception of Olberman and Maddow) has been vaporized. Of course most people don't identify themselves as "Liberal" -- they either fear the word or can't identify with any.

[hulka38]

39. Doing what's right isn't conservative or liberal.

Politicians can stick their pragmatism up their ass.

[Uzybone]

40. But America is a Liberal country!!

That what I read on the "liberal" blogosphere and in peoples sig lines.

[spoony]

46. Whatever. "Pragmatists" will just use this to further dismiss

actual liberal ideas while praising further pandering and capitulation to the GOP. I don't see why you continue to be so damn snarky since all of it is going your way, pragmatically speaking of course.

[girl gone mad]

95. Interesting point.

Pragmatists seem to have gotten every last one of their demands met over the last few years, yet they are still miserable and angry, lashing out a liberals left and right, blaming progressives for declining poll numbers, failing policies and the horrible state of things in general.

You would think that at some point the cognitive dissonance would be too much to bear. :shrug:

[Bluenorthwest]

42. And are they right about themselves?

Do they even know what the words mean? I see people on DU who use the term 'moderate' as meaning 'not radical'. Or even just 'correct'. At times they mean 'willing to compromise'. I've never once seen a single person, even on DU, define what a moderate is. So the majority in this poll are people who take a label that is undefined, taken by members of both parties and no party, and basically means whatever the user wants it to mean.
What do you, the OP see as the dividers between a moderate and a conservative, and a moderate and a liberal. What defines a moderate? When people say they are moderates, what do they mean, what do they believe that I, as a liberal, would not believe? Is there a moderate platform? How can people tell they are moderates? What if others do not agree? Bill Nelson says he's a Democrat, Cheney says he's a patriot, are these things also true?

[Dr Morbius]

45. "We're just a conservative nation." puts the cart before the horse.

The people are controlled to an extent by their choice of media, and don't think the powers that be aren't reinforcing the government-is-bad meme. We're being pushed into distrust, because everything government does will be second-guessed and criticized at every opportunity by the media since it leads to better ratings. I don't believe the bulk of the people really ascribe to one or another ideology; many tend to oppose one ideology much more than they support the opposing ideology.

It is critically important to remember than liberalism and conservatism are not opposite ideologies. They are opposing ideologies. The difference is crucial; people can lean towards or against conservatism without leaning towards liberalism, and vice-versa. You don't have to be liberal to be vehemently anti-conservative.

I also think it's important to remember that the public concept of liberalism has been defined by the party of Ronald Reagan. People in this country actually believe liberal = big government, because liberals like myself haven't done enough or explained well enough to convince them otherwise.

[elocs]

48. DU generally poo-poos polls they don't like, but trumpet those with which they agree.

I don't know if the difference between Americans who consider themselves to be conservative versus liberal is that great, but I am not surprised that more consider themselves to be conservative.

I think there is a large number of Americans in the middle who may swing conservative or liberal depending upon the issue. There are those who are fiscally conservative, but socially liberal so depending upon the issue that is most important to them at the time of voting they will swing one way or the other.

I think as Democrats and as Liberals we deceive ourselves in believing that most Americans broadly support all the things we believe are important, that they are solidly in our camp. Most Americans are likely to be conservative not in a freeper, Republican party attitude, but in a careful and cautious way, wary of change but not afraid of it in the end if they can get past those whose m.o. is to fan the flames of fear.

[jgraz]

52. I tend to dislike stupid polls

And a poll asking Americans to self-identify their political leanings certainly qualifies.

[depakid]

65. Sometimes, all you can do is:

:eyes:

[jgraz]

67. That may be literally all we can do.

I haven't finished reading the new rules yet.

[elocs]

78. Actually I think that is a pretty basic poll if it has enough choices.

Such as:
Do you consider yourself to be a Liberal?

A moderate Democrat?

Are you an Independent who usually swings to vote Democratic?

Are you an Independent who swings either Democratic or Republican depending upon the issue?

Are you an Independent who usually swings to vote Republican?

Are you a moderate Republican?

Are you a Conservative Republican?

Are you a complete freeper, teahadist nut-job?

[Onlooker]

50. When libeals won't even admit they're liberal ...

... then, what else should we expect. Obama himself has almost never used the word liberal and has never explained to people what liberalism is. Liberalism has been defined by conservatives as an ideology that's not unlike communism, is economically insane, wants to take everyone's rights away, etc. Until some leading liberal starts explaining and defending liberalism, as Reagan did with conservativism, liberalism will remain unpopular, even though many people who claim they are not liberal are in fact liberal.

[noamnety]

51. Enacting conservative policies

is the best way to win conservative votes.

[jgraz]

53. Then we should be all set.

Did I say that out loud? :hide:

[ShadowLiberal]

55. Those numbers fall apart when you actually ask about the issues

There's plenty of people who will label themselves 'conservatives' over just one or two issues, when in reality they agree with liberals on most things.

I saw one such poll a year ago that showed people picking the liberal position twice as often as the conservative one, 6 to 3, with 1 (option on the bailout) having zero correlation for either side.

[wickerwoman]

57. Exactly... all this tells us is that 79% of Americans don't really know what liberal means

at least not in the context of this poll.

Isn't support for gun control around 60-70%? Pro-choice is well into the 60s too IIRC.

Most people who know what unions are support them. They also support the social safety net and were against the war in Iraq.

Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh and Fox News have spent fifteen years making "liberal" a dirty word but if you isolate issues and educate people about them, they almost always pick the "liberal" choice.

[vaberella]

58. And this I have to agree with...~sigh~ n/t

[depakid]

59. Here we go again with this stupid, self defeating rationalization

The vast majority of the evidence shows that's absolutely incorrect

by leaps and bounds.

As has been posted here countless times before.

Here's how it breaks down on the sets attitudes, beliefs and values- reflected in positions on issues which makes up a progressive or "conservative" ("moderate" is meaningless here- as it is in real life).

And it's largely derived from credible data- as opposed to agenda driven corporations like Gallup- who are out to influence public opinion not reflect it.

The Progressive Majority: Why a Conservative America is a Myth.

www.weourselves.org/reports/20070612_theprogressivemajority_report.pdf (Do yourself a favor, put down your beer and read it).

Summary:

Conventional wisdom says that the American public is fundamentally conservative - hostile to government, in favor of unregulated markets, at peace with inequality, wanting a foreign policy based on the projection of military power, and traditional in its social values.

But as this report demonstrates, that picture is fundamentally false. Media perceptions and past Republican electoral successes notwithstanding, Americans are progressive across a wide range of controversial issues, and they're growing more progressive all the time.

This report gathers together years of public opinion data from unimpeachably nonpartisan sources to show that on issue after issue, the majority of Americans hold progressive positions. And this is true not only of specific policy proposals, but of the fundamental perspectives and approaches that Americans bring to bear on issues.

Nor is the progressive majority merely a product of the current political moment. On a broad array of issues, particularly social issues, American opinion has grown more and more progressive over the past few decades. In contrast, it is difficult to find an issue on which the public has grown steadily more conservative over the last 10, 20, or 30 years.

The issues covered in this report include the following ... The role of government ... The economy ... Social issues ... Security ... The environment ... Energy ... Health care...

In short, a look across the scope of American public opinion reveals a public that holds progressive positions and supports progressive solutions on economic issues, on social issues, on security issues - indeed, on nearly all the key issues confronting the country. For years, the conventional wisdom has maintained just the opposite, but the facts are impossible to ignore.

And there's more:

Pew: Trends in Political Values and Core Attitudes: 1987-2007. Political Landscape More Favorable To Democrats

http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/312.pdf

Summary: http://people-press.org/report/?reportid=312

[Amimnoch]

66. To most, it's all about the pocket book.

I think many here hit the nail on the head saying that many don't know what "liberal" or "conservative" is.

Sadly, I also think most vote along the lines of what will be best for their own personal pocket book. What's worse, we have somehow been branded as the ones that will "take from the pocket books of the working class, and give it away"...

Heck, if I didn't know better, I'd label myself conservative.. after all, when it's put like that, where I'm believing that "liberals" want to take money from me, and give it away, heck I wouldn't want to vote for us either!

But when people are aware that, yes we do believe in taxes.. taxes to be used in promoting the general good and welfare of the people.. taxes to be used to ensure that those who have benefited the most from our country, should also be the ones to do the most to support those who have not been so fortunate to benefit from it... THEN people realise that liberal isn't such a bad title to be branded with after all.

[DCBob]

73. I hate labels and in most cases they arent correct..

Most people are a mix of liberal and conservative viewpoints. For example, I am liberal on most issues but conservative on others such as fiscal/budget issues. However, no matter how you slice and dice these numbers they arent good news for liberals/progressives.

[bvar22]

74. OTOH, when polled on the ISSUES, the American Public

..is well to The Left of the current Democratic Party Leadership.

Where IS "The Center"?
Here is what the MAJORITY of Americans (Democrats AND Republicans) want from OUR government!

In recent polls (2005!) by the Pew Research Group, the Opinion Research Corporation, the Wall Street Journal, and CBS News, the American majority has made clear how it feels. Look at how the majority feels about some of the issues that you'd think would be gospel to a real Democratic Party:

1. 65 percent (of ALL Americans, Democrats AND Republicans) say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."

http://alternet.org/story/29788/

So, you see, the problem is NOT one of labels. The problem is that The Democratic Party has done a very poor job of Framing the Issues, and defining what it MEANS to be a "Liberal".

In 2009, over 69% of American People OPPOSED Mandates without a Public Option.

[depakid]

76. and the public option itself consistently polled well within the 70% range

[boston bean]

77. The issues don't matter, remember, we must get any dem elected, even if they are for gutting SS. nt

[Joe the Liberal]

79. Unfurtunately America IS right wing, the evidence is all around us there is no denying.....

Over the decades the US has become more and more right wing and it shows. Everywhere you look in this country you can see just how right wing we have become, with our crap health care system, two endless wars, faltering education system, massive corruption and incompetence at every level of government, high homeless rate, high poverty rate, high unemployment, high income inequality (highest in the industrialized world actually), highest prison population on earth, almost nonexistent social safety net, an almost feudalistic lack of leisure time, service economy, extremely expensive higher education, no regulation of the financial and corporate interests lax regulation all around actually, long hours with little pay, highest obesity rate on earth, disastrous foreign policy, huge deficit, largest military budget on the planet, large collection of nukes, guns everywhere with large amounts of gun crimes to go with them, massive propaganda campaigns daily via fox, very high infant mortality rate, low standard of living low standard of anything really.... the list goes on, the fruits of years and years of republican/right wing control.

[andym]

83. The critical questions for economic liberalism:

Do you mind paying more taxes to expand the federal government to
1) provide universal health care?
OR
2) regulate industry/corporations more tightly?
OR
3) ensure that the impoverished are given a fair chance to succeed?
etc

If a person answers YES, then they might be considered an economic liberal, if NO, then a conservative, if not sure or other then a moderate.

In the polling study from Media Matters "The Progressive Majority: Why a Conservative America is a Myth" (referenced up thread-- post #59), they don't quite ask these questions. For example, they ask if they would mind if government spending should be increased to help the poor (which got a good response). The key difference is that my questions involve raising taxes on the person being polled. That has been the third rail in presidential politics since Walter Mondale stated he would raise taxes and Reagan said he would not. These questions expose the conflict between liberal and conservative principles that seem to be in play a large portions of the electorate.

[HughMoran]

84. It's true, though there is no question that deals with the stigma associated with the word 'liberal'

So there is some bias there. It does generally make the point that those who are calling for very liberal polices are not necessarily being realistic in their expectations.

[BootinUp]

86. Many are just afraid to say they are liberal

its the lingering effects of the Reagan revolution. Give it another few years to turn around.

[rufus dog]

87. Pareto's law - aka the 80/20 rule

The Pareto principle (also known as the 80-20 rule,<1> the law of the vital few, and the principle of factor sparsity) states that, for many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes.<2><3> Business management thinker Joseph M. Juran suggested the principle and named it after Italian economist Vilfredo Pareto, who observed in 1906 that 80% of the land in Italy was owned by 20% of the population; he developed the principle by observing that 20% of the pea pods in his garden contained 80% of the peas.<3> It is a common rule of thumb in business; e.g., "80% of your sales come from 20% of your clients." Mathematically, where something is shared among a sufficiently large set of participants, there must be a number k between 50 and 100 such that k% is taken by (100 − k)% of the participants. k may vary from 50 (in the case of equal distribution, i.e. 100% of the population have equal shares) to nearly 100 (when a tiny number of participants account for almost all of the resource). There is nothing special about the number 80% mathematically, but many real systems have k somewhere around this region of intermediate imbalance in distribution.


So you always want to be in the 20%!

[niceypoo]

89. After 8 years of absolute conservative failure

You champion it?

[quaker bill]

90. Not a misunderstanding

Reading the above I see all the standard Liberal excuses for this. "people don't understand us", "people have been taught to hate the label", "people agree with us more when issues are polled", ....

Like most psychological rationalizations, each bears a grain of truth to hide the larger deception.

The point is that people, a great many people, actually and truly do not like us, and they do not like us for cause.

Why did it take a war to free the slaves? Riots to win the right to unionize? Massive unrest to win civil rights for minorities? Enduring protests to get women the right to vote and own property? A great depression to get Social Security?

Put as concisely as possible, because people consistently must be dragged kicking and screaming into any future that features a greater social justice. Once there, they tend over time to figure out that they like it. That they learn to like it is one reason why republicans go to the mat to resist such change. For all the complaining people do in Canada and England over national health care, no one could politically survive there proposing to repeal it. Here, whenever republicans propose seriously to dismantle social security, they lose the next election, it is the same paradigm. Proposing to undo emancipation, civil rights, or sufferage are complete political non-starters, but once were the settled law of the land.

That we are not loved is truly not a problem, the belief that we should be loved is.

Back in the day the Commonwealth of Virginia passed a "Quaker Act" that expressed its collective anger toward a group of people that caused confusion in the people about their "proper station" in that society. This is shorthand for causing slaves and indentured servants to seek freedom and think of themselves as people of equal value. A fellow named Thomas Jefferson signed it into law. Another fellow named George Washington supported its passage and disparaged us in writing because we had freed some of his personal slaves.

George W. Bush sent agents from the DOD to infiltrate our Meetings.

There is nothing about being disliked that is new or in anyway dishonorable.

[RBInMaine]

91. Use the term "progressive" in the polling, and numbers change.

[mikekohr]

93. How Much? -Regardless of semantics the basic gist of this post remain valid-

The Republican base is in the low 40's. The Democratic base is in the high 40's. 7-9% % are true swing voters. They decide national elections and they are in the middle of the political spectrum. Lose them, lose the White House.

"You don't need to be intelligent to succeed in politics, but you do need to be able to count." -Robert F. Kennedy-


mike kohr

[DatManFromNawlins]

117. "progressive" is not particularly clear

And is usually used by liberals who are trying to escape the "liberal" label by associating with another positive word. People at least have a clue what "liberal" means in the context of national politics.

[YOY]

96. I guess according to this poll I shouldn't vote then...

n/t

[Lucky Luciano]

97. They should take this poll based on 10 or 15 questions

about political policies that are definitely either liberal or conservative. Do you approve/disapprove of policy X.

That will determine if they are liberal, moderate, or conservative.

Then - ask the person if they consider themselves liberal, moderate, or conservative.

See how many of them given answer that are inconsistent with their political views from the previous 15 questions.


"Liberal" has been effectively marketed as bad by the conservatives. That much is clear.

[greymattermom]

98. ask a different question

Are your for progress or for keeping things the way they are now?

[LatteLibertine]

99. It's not surprising Barack Obama was elected

and another like him could be elected as well. Every moderate I know that cast a vote for him knew of his liberal leanings.

As far as polls go, I'm always interested in the sample size and demographics. Often polls are used to shape public opinion rather than report it.

In addition, it's an old tried and true technique to depress voter morale so there will be lower voter turn out. Always get off your butt and vote no matter how meaningless you may perceive it to be.

[iamthebandfanman]

100. now ask all those people to define

what those words mean.


meaningless.

[high density]

101. I don't think we're a conservative nation. We're an ignorant nation.

The vast majority of these "conservatives" still don't want their Social Security and Medicare taken away. They are just selfish people who want all of theirs and want everybody else to get nothing. I feel they all must have some sort of delusional expectation that they'll all be rich some day and keep electing Republicans to make sure the system is tilted in their favor for when they eventually get there.

[iamthebandfanman]

102. ++++1

People have no idea what these words mean.

If someone says a word enough while pointing the finger, it just tends to stick.

i mean, youve got people on the radio and television telling people that liberals are descended from the nazi party...

in a world where people tell other people the opposite of fact and present it as truth... this poll doesnt mean jack.


my biggest fear is that IF(i say IF! so dont jump me) obama were to fail and be one term , the liberal brand would be shunned for a period of time again. id hardly call obama a raging liberal by any standards, but the public sees him as that because theyve been told hes that by media.

the obama presidency failing would be seen as liberals failing.

[paulk]

103. I remember several years ago when I was working up in NE

I spent a lot of time discussing politics with our truck driver - a fellow in his mid fifties, Vietnam vet, native Nebraskan, Republican, a church going Christian - when I took the time to explain issues to him, he almost always would come down on the "liberal side" - yet, when I pointed this out to him he would vehemently deny that he was anything but a conservative. His favorite line was, "My Grandad was a Republican, my Dad was a Republican, and I'm a Republican, Goddamit!"

This really hasn't been an isolated experience - I've encountered plenty of "conservatives" and "moderates" over the years who are in denial of their liberalism - this especially comes out when you start challenging them on their religious beliefs, Christianity being a fundamentally liberal religion.

Maybe what is needed is strong leadership at the top of the Democratic Party - leadership willing to take on the conservatives, willing to try to change the public discourse about what being a "liberal" actually means.

Instead we have leadership just as willing as the Republicans to trash liberals.

[paulk]

104. double post

[Odin2005]

106. The labels are so tainted by RW Newspeak that they are useless.

A lot of people that call themselves "Conservatives" or "Moderates" are LIBERALS ON THE ISSUES.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

107. I don't deny the numbers, but "Liberal" is a bad word that even Democrats run from the word.

These numbers don't shock me.

[zulchzulu]

108. I'd like to know what people think is "conservative"...

Does being "conservative" mean you are a racist?

Does being "conservative" mean you are a homophobe?

Does being "conservative" mean you think the environment should be exploited?

Does being "conservative" mean you don't believe in global warming/climate change?

Does being "conservative" mean you don't want to pay taxes except want things taxes pay for?

Does being "conservative" mean you are a theocrat?

Does being "conservative" mean you think the end of the World is coming soon?

Does being "conservative" mean you approve of endless wars based on lies?

I'd like to see a REAL poll that perhaps disproves that people are "conservative", since I am guessing that the same people who say they are conservative would actually be moderates or even liberal.

[spanone]

109. then how did the President get elected? not buying

[Doctor_J]

111. This isn't bad, considering Media is 98% ultra-right wing

We're not a conservative nation, we're brainwashed authoritarians.

[county worker]

112. If you asked people their opinion of the issues that define conservative and liberal I think you

would get a different picture.

I think people consider conservative as being the opposite of radical. They do not use the definition of liberal that we do. Also the trashing of the label liberal ever since Reagan has people afraid of the word.

I think you should leave off the labels and ask how much support there is for each issue and total them up and you would see more people lean toward being liberal.

[GlennWRECK]

114. Most are fiscal conservatives/ social liberals

I'd say that would be why.

[DCBob]

115. It pretty much boils down to the 3Gs.. gays, guns and God..

You could also add another "G".. big Government. These are still very hot buttons for many Americans.

[besdayz]

116. a

like others have said, its a bullsh#t poll until you account for the labeling bias and smearage of liberal....


i'd like to see how they phrased their question. if it was rasmussen it would be:


Do you consider yourself a good pro-american conservative or a socialist liberal? and then they hang up on liberals...


i wonder what people would say if you just asked them their opinions on specific things without pre-labeling it and based on how much they like per se
medicare or civil rights, social security, oil companies, etc

[Peacetrain]

118. That is because the word "liberal" was worked over with a lawn mower

And instead of standing up and being proud.. people ran for something else to call themselves.. because no no, thats not me.. I am .. (what ever they wanted to call themselves)