So today's talking point rational for The Big Cave On Tax Cuts For Billionaires

[Warren Stupidity]

is 'but the unemployed will =insert calamity here= if we don't give in'.

Seriously?

[Laelth]

1. It appears we will get a 1 year extension of UI benefits in exchange ...

... for a 2 year extension of all the tax cuts. That appears to be the rationale behind negotiating on this (extending UI).

-Laelth

[bigdarryl]

2. And in two years that will be the Presidential election

wonder what Obama excuse will be when these tax cuts STILL don't produce jobs

[COLGATE4]

3. No, what they'll say is that these 'tax cuts' moved the unemployment

rate from 9.6% to 8.0% (which is what most economists are predicting will happen, anyway) and that is proof that we need even MORE tax cuts for the 'job makers' (i.e. the wealthy) to bring it down further. It's truly a lose-lose.

[polichick]

15. Wow, what a deal! 1 year for 2, and the amounts aren't close to equal. Woo-hoo!!!

[niceypoo]

4. A permenant solution to a temporary problem

If the tax cuts are extended, it will never end. The economy won't take off with the ruinous tax cuts in place.

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. That's a nice statement

How do you propose to pass UI benefits extensions?

[Warren Stupidity]

7. I don't.

Linking tax cuts for billionaires to another short term UC extension (and nothing for those who are over 99 weeks - apparently those people don't matter to all of you so very concerned about this extension) was rather stupid.

Let START stand or fall on rethug intransigence.
Let UC stand or fall or rethug instransigence.
Let tax cust expire on rethug intransigence.

Make them kill all three independently. No deals.

[alcibiades_mystery]

8. OK, so what if they just stand on that

Now you have a "great" rhetorical point for commercials, but 2 million people are left with nothing.

But don't worry. You will have "won."

[Warren Stupidity]

9. We have to fight back at some point.

I actually think the republicans will cave in on all three. If we stand. If we fold, why should they?

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. We can have reasonable disagreements on this sort of stuff

I, for one, don't think it's appropriate to gamble two million jobless people into penury - such that a good number of them will be unable to pay for heating bills, groceries, rent/mortgages, etc. - in the middle of winter. There does seem to be the assumption that the Republicans would just fold on UI extensions if we made them. It operates throughout these "Why are we caving?!?" threads. Oh, if only we "fought," the GOPers would just give up on that! I see nothing to support that but a thin wish. They already filibustered UI extensions, and nothing really happened to them as a result. It's important to understand that this is a calculation you're making, and it's a very risky calculation indeed. It's not very serious to simply dismiss the extremely dangerous consequences of the GOP holding the line on UI as a "talking point." They show every indication of doing just that, and you can forget about an extension passing the House after the new session begins. Is it blackmail? Of course it is. That doesn't make it any less real for the two million people who will be affected by it. Well, some might say, that in itself will exert a great deal of pressure on the GOP. Maybe so. If you're comfortable rolling the dice with those people's lives, that's fine. You should think more carefully, however, before you accuse those who are not comfortable with such a risky calculation of merely circulating talking points. I believe you have a strong and workable position. It's not clear why you think other reasonable positions are so trivial, especially when the stakes are so high for so many Americans.

[polmaven]

11. You REALLY don't care?

Really? "Are there no work houses, no prisons?" "Let them die and decrease the surplus population!"

Scrooge couldn't have said it better. I never thought it would come down to this at DU, though. Let millions suffer for the "principle" of not caving. NO COMPROMISE - EVER!!!!

[Warren Stupidity]

12. I refuse to buy the bullshit that these are linked.

They aren't.

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. I don't even know what that means

They're linked to the extent that the GOP can filibuster UI benefits, or nit filibuster it.

Pretending that this isn't a real possibility is nice, I guess, as a slogan, but it doesn't make it so. You may think they are bluffing, but you should at least admit that proceeding that way is a gamble, and a fairly high stakes gamble for 2 million Americans.

[polmaven]

14. Absolutely correct!

And the 2 million number is only by the end of 2010. People will continue to fall off the rolls rapidly, week be week after that, up to something like 10M people.

[rug]

6. Governing by taking hostages is not really governing.

[lunatica]

16. That's basically the essence of it.

It's one of those 'coincidences' that's just another incredibly fortunate stroke of fucking good luck for the Republicans. You know, the kind that abounded and oozed during the Bush Era.

:sarcasm: