Can a single person opposed to the tax deal explain how the purist position could pass the Senate?

[RBInMaine]

The R's have the votes to oppose cloture on anything short of a compromise of the type reached, and they would do so. Pure and simple. All the bitching and screeching about this is an effort in futility. The RePubs wanted PERMANENT extensions of the tax cuts for the rich. They DIDN'T get it. They want an outright ELIMINATION of the estate tax. They DIDN'T get it. They wanted to STOP further unemployment benefits. They DIDN'T get it. And they had to concede on a whole host of extensions of stimulus measures that they did not vote for in the first place and want to oppose again. Obama is a pragmatist who understands that governing is about actually getting some things accomplished. Too many people here want to wage an ideological fight best saved for 2012. Both sides gave here, and there will be plenty of TeaPublicans who will give the RePubs crap for dealing with Obama and not holding out for PERMANENT extensions of the all tax cuts and an outright elimination of what they have labeled the "death tax." Obama is doing exactly the right thing. It is on balance a pretty fair compromise that the RePubs knew they had to sign onto or THEY would be toast. We need to preserve the tax cuts for the middle class, get the other middle class provisions extended, and get unemployment insurance extended. This bill does it all. Pass it now ! It is is called actually governing and not just incessently fighting and bitching and holding out for purity that rarely exists here in the real world.

[eleny]

1. The public pressure would be enormous on the R's as it has been in the past

We've been though this before.

If this time Obama held the town halls that some legislators were asking him to do - it would have, imo, resulted in the R's caving on UI as they have in the past.

[Clio the Leo]

2. Yes, because we did SO well pressuring Congress during the health care debate.

[young but wise]

3. WTF

President Obama was doing town halls and speeches about tax cuts before the election.

[eleny]

10. We're talking about right now as UI benefits are expiring

It's a strike while the iron is hot moment.

Btw, since you remember his town halls during the campaign you must remember how well they were received. Thanks for helping me make my point.

WTF, indeed. :rofl:

[FrenchieCat]

5. Most here haven't pressured shit.......

beyond dogging the President on these boards; you being one of them.

[eleny]

9. Obama did say that we should keep his feet to the fire

I guess you were out the several times he said that. But I'm glad to refresh your memory.

[FrenchieCat]

15. That's not what's happened......

his feet have been burned to a crisp,
and now we are burning his legs.

Funny thing is that in the end, you and I will suffer
that much more for your 2 years of thus far work!
Congratulation! You owe it to yourself.

[eleny]

17. While you're at it be sure to congratulate Obama for taking Boehner at his word

Nothing like getting the shovel with a longer handle and using it to bury his base.

[FrenchieCat]

24. Of course, part of what you do is only include context when it suits your purpose......

Republicans do that too.

They like what you do. It helps them just that much more.
I also understand that you didn't even vote for Obama....
so they have loved you for a long time now.

[eleny]

26. Always agreeing with the leader of your Party is just like Republicans, too

Pot meet kettle.

[sohndrsmith]

25. Just because Obama said the PC statement there, do you really think

he's so naive - more naive than all those criticizing him?

He's not, and as tough as it was to hear KO and RM rail the president tonight, I'm not ready to kick dirt in Obama's direction with my boot because I still think he's smarter than me and the last thing he needs right now is to be abandoned by the team.

just saying...

[eleny]

27. Yes, dangerously naive on the face of it

[displacedvermoter]

90. HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW?

What people are doing when not on these boards.

[RBInMaine]

6. What public pressure? While "progressives" would be home sulking, TeaScum would be there screaming.

[eleny]

12. I'm referring to the public pressure they would feel as the UI benefits expired

If Obama threw himself into the fight the left would be wild with support, RB. I stand by my opinion on this.

[Life Long Dem]

41. Obviously Obama doesn't want to play politics.

He's more concerned about getting things done, like passing the unemployment extension for people trying to pay their bills.

[TomCADem]

44. Baloney - The GOP Suffered No Backlash For Sitting Out Health Care Reform, Financial Reform, ...

...Climate Change, etc.

Heck, even liberals on this board repeatedly give Republicans a free pass. What possibly makes anyone think that our corporate funded media would suddenly hold Republicans accountable?

Republicans were able to lie with impunity during the health care debate and the media happily repeated these lies. Heck, even the President Obama was born in Kenya lies still have legs.

[JamesA1102]

89. So true

They embarked on a campaign of obstruction and the public rewarded them for it.

[JamesA1102]

88. Really?

When in the past has public pressure force the GOP to raise taxes?

[Aramchek]

92. they don't care about public pressure. they have repeatedly demonstrated this.

[Marsala]

4. The purists don't care about anybody getting tax cuts. They'd be happy to see everyone's taxes go up

It's a valid position, certainly, but a very dangerous one in this stagnant economic climate.

[RBInMaine]

7. VERY dangerous. Some here have actually advocated that. DUMB !

[Life Long Dem]

43. Yeah this way they would have more money for another war.

But instead, everyone got a tax cut and people are crying.

[last_texas_dem]

46. I honestly wonder just how dangerous doing so would actually be

And I mean economically, not politically...

I know letting the tax cuts expire on all levels of income would not be the smartest move politically, and I know what the conventional wisdom is regarding what they would do economically. But, honestly, the Bush tax cuts don't seem to have been particularly stimulative to the economy; no one is attributing some wonderful, growing economy of the mid-'00s to them- because that great economy never existed. And whatever positive stimulus they may have provided seems to be outweighed by the damage they did to the government's fiscal health.

Additionally, I just don't know where these people are who are so worried about losing their Bush tax cuts. Even though I know relying on anecdotal evidence is pointless, I can't help but take it into account to some extent. Where are all these people who would be devastated by their incomes being taxed at the Clinton-era tax rates? I hear about a lot of theoretical people, and I've no doubt there are plenty of people who won't really be all that much affected but who could be easily persuaded by Repugs that they *have* been hurt by the expiration of the Bush tax rates, and attributing the blame to Obama, leading to negative effects on the Dems politically... but in terms of people who would truly suffer based on letting the rates expire, I wonder...

All right, people who know more about economics than me, flame away!

[Exilednight]

8. He didn't need congress. All he needed to do was sit on his hands and let them ALL expire. n/t

[frylock]

14. we were lectured about that by the same people looking to blame congress..

the dems don't NEED to vote on the tax cuts, we were told. they're due to expire. fml.

[TheWebHead]

11. they can't

when 1 side scored a huge electoral victory in November and when they argue we just want to have everyone pay the same tax rate next year as they've paid the past 8 years, most voters would tell their elected representatives just do it, especially when they return to work in January and see their paycheck has shrunk. There may be intensity for whether the other guy pays 39% and not 36% with the hardcore left, but the general public is primarily concerned with what they pay. When 47% of U.S. households paid no federal income tax in 2009, their opinions about the wealthy who do just doesn't move the scale much on a 3% swing. It may feel that way when you turn on MSNBC, visit your favorite progressive web sites, or tune into liberal radio all day, but that's a sliver of the population.

[DontTreadOnMe]

13. The ANSWER IS EASY!

It's called LEADERSHIP.

The President needs to make the case for the policy. If he is a good leader, people will follow.

This bill "DOES NOT DO IT ALL".

Pragmatism leads to ONE TERM!

The both sides gave here is so full of shit. So they got an TAX EXTENSION, but not a PERMANENT TAX EXTENSION is there big give?
Oh wait, they gave "us" unemployment for SOME OF THE UNEMPLOYED. The public would have DEMANDED this within a few weeks if Obama held out.
The Republicans WOULD HAVE GIVEN IN on this - eventually. What, Christmas... the UNEMPLOYED needed the money for Christmas presents!
WTF! Food and shelter are more important than "presents"... so don't use a religious holiday as a crutch for your moral timeline.
Are the 99ers less derserving?

Obama is a POOR LEADER. That is WHY he can't get enough followers to pass legislation. Stop the excuses about why HE can't get it done.

[ProSense]

16. "It's called LEADERSHIP."

So there are no leaders in the Senate?

They're all criticizing the deal. Yet they prepared two packages that failed to pass last Saturday. There were even Democrats who voted against each.

[ProudDad]

76. It's called "Representation"

This is not Nazi Germany (yet)...

We don't need strong leaders...

We need REPRESENTATIVES for our interests in the class war...

[Ikonoklast]

29. Show me where the votes are in the Senate. Please fucking show me.

No one, and I mean NOT ONE FUCKING PERSON can show me where these votes are.

And 'Leadership' means nada, zip, zero, nothing, naught, null set to members of the Senate that are Republicans.

They would not 'cave'. That is nothing but wishful thinking, magical thinking.

Show me where they 'caved' before. They can give two shits about 'public pressure'.

Please.

Show me the numbers.

[ProudDad]

32. 51 votes to change the rules in the Senate...

Then 51 votes to pass legislation -- no republicans need apply...

They could have done it for a REAL Health Care Reform with Medicare for All...

They could have done it for a Carbon Tax...

They could have done it for a Dream Act...

They could have done it for an Extension of Unemployment Benefits...

They could have done it for Middle Class Tax cut retention...

They could have imposed a real inheritance and upper class sloth tax...

They could have done it for a Corporate Disclosure of Campaign Donation act...

They could have done it for the most important single law to benefit workers the Employee Free Choice Act...

But they didn't...

Because the W.H., the Senate "Leadership" and the republicans all work for the same corporate interests...

So don't give me any SHIT about "how they could do it", they could have...

If the Democrats had any fucking principles or values that they were willing to go to the mats for...

[Ikonoklast]

57. And you hand the Republicans an enormous victory.

Social Security would have been privatized under Bush with the 51 vote rule.

You assume Democrats will ALWAYS retain a Senate majority.

Shows you cannot see ten feet in front of you, let alone ten years down the road.

[ProudDad]

75. I assume that with true majority rule

Something resembling a "democracy"...

And some RESULTS that help regular folk instead of the uber-rich...

enough of the sheeple would have to wake up and hold them accountable...

Rather than play the useless Kabuki Theater of Partisan Politics...

And I see hundreds of years down the road...

You appear to be the myopic one...

[Ikonoklast]

81. You see what you want to see.

And it has little to do with politcal reality.


Today.

[ProudDad]

85. "politcal(sic) reality" today

is going to destroy the Earth as a viable habitat for large air-breathing mammals...

But you can aid and abet if you want...

It's still a free country for appeasers... :shrug:

[Ikonoklast]

91. Hahahaaaaa!!! That's a good one!!

Your balanced reasoning has won me over.



It IS a free country, even hypocrites get their say.

[ProudDad]

94. Yes...you hypocrites do...

:eyes:

[RBInMaine]

48. Making accomplishments IS "leadership." Have you ever governed anything? Have you ever taken a civ-

ics class?

[dionysus]

58. that's rather.. vague. i guess he's all powerfull and can bend the will of the blue dogs and gop

with his mind control powers.

[treestar]

93. I knew this one would come up

It's meaningless. Are you saying Senators should not disagree with a "good leader?"

That they won't? That a good "leader" can convince everyone to do anything?

Sounds cultish. We have a representative government with divided powers, in order to avoid this very thing.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

18. The tax cuts would have expired automatically if Congress had done nothing

Obama could have gone on national TV weeks ago and said that he would veto anything that included continued tax cuts and that it would be the Republicans' fault if unemployment benefits expired. He could have instructed the Dem committee chairs (the majority holds till the end of the year) not to let any bill containing tax cuts come up for a vote. He could have also sent Dem Congresscritters and staffers out to all the talk shows around the country to explain this position.

The tactic would be to KEEP EMPHASIZING that the loss of UE benefits was the Repubicans' fault and to tell unemployed Americans to pressure their Republican and DINO Congresscritters to pass unemployment extension without the tax cuts.

That's what Reagan would have done in an alternative universe where he was in favor of letting tax cuts expire.

But Obama's behavior so far (two years and counting) leaves me with only two possible conclusions:

1. Nobody in the entire upper echelons of the Democratic Party, least of all Obama, knows anything about political tactics and are confused and helpless in the face of Republican tactical brilliance.

2. The upper echelons of the Democratic Party have been co-opted by the Big Money Boys and will not cross them, even at the risk of alienating their base and indeed, the majority of Americans.

[ProudDad]

33. EXACTLY!!! +1000

[COLGATE4]

39. +1

[RBInMaine]

50. And the GOP would have effectively re-spun it to "Dems are RAISING TAXES ON SMALL BUSINESS" and

since they had the majority THEY would have been blamed for allowing the middle class tax cuts and unemployment insurance to end. That is what the majority of the public will say. Obama did the right thing. The GOP wanted PERMANENCE on their policies, and he instead issued a compromise offer that THEY knew THEY would have to take or be toast. The GOP would NEVER have given in to just extending taxes for the middle class, and you would NEVER have had the groundswell of "progressive pressure" from the public that some fantasizers here think would happen. "Progressives" sit home and sulk and whine and bitch these days while teabaggers take to the streets and the halls of congress. Mad at Obama? How about being mad at the non-existent "progressive movement" that can't win off-year elections and won't invest in alternative media? While TeaBaggers took over the healthcare debate, where the hell was the "progressive movement?"

PASS THE COMPROMISE TAX BILL NOW !

[Lydia Leftcoast]

60. So let them spin. Spin right back.

They're bullies. Fight dirty. Take the PR offensive for once.

You are accepting the Republicans' memes.

We need to start our own memes.

Start by saying, "It will be the Republicans' fault if unemployment insurance is not extended, because they are having a two-year-olds' temper tantrum about tax cuts for billionaires. I refuse to give in to spoiled brats. They worry about the deficit until it comes to saving their fat cat friends from paying an extra 3% in taxes while millions of Americans are wondering where their next meal is coming from. I want all of you to call your Republican Senators and SHAME them into accepting unemployment extensions without insisting on tax cuts."

As for being a "useless progressive," I don't work for candidates I don't believe in.

[ProudDad]

77. Only if the cowardly Dems let them spin it...

The republicans are just the "all powerful Oz" -- before Toto pulls the curtain aside...

And Obama is one of the guards in green garb...

[dionysus]

59. and the media would report "obama raised everyone's taxes", and half the public would buy it.

blaming the republicans won't help the 2 million who just got their benefits extended, orthe people who just noticed their paycheck get smaller.

people seem to really have a tin ear about this stuff.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

61. Just noticed their paycheck got smaller?

Not likely except for the top income earners.

Most people didn't notice that Obama cut taxes for the middle class.

Oh man, we are seeing the result of twenty years of the damned DLCers insisting on caving in to the Republicans: wide acceptance of Republican memes, even internalization of Republican memes by people who call themselves Democrats.

[dionysus]

62. it's been said 3000\yr for an average family. it's nothing to sneeze at.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

67. Average family?

Average affluent family with a McMansion and an SUV for each person over 16? Or average working stiff?

Middle class taxes (REAL middle-class, not people making $250,000 a year who CALL themselves middle-class) didn't go DOWN $300 a month when the Bush tax cuts went into effect. Why should they go up when the tax cuts expire? (And it's Republican thinking to refer to it as a tax "increase.")

[dionysus]

82. that's why i put it in quotes. the rates would simply revert, but it will be sold as an increase

and people will believe it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

83. Not if the Dems had done some preemptive PR

which, oddly, only the Republicans seem capable of these days. The Republicans put out a propaganda initiative, full blast, in all the major media, and the Democrats just whine about how the Republicanites have them cornered.

Are the Dem establishment really that clueless about PR, or are they secretly fine with Republican policies?

They've been "clueless" about PR, always allowing the Republicanites to set the terms of the debate, ever since the DLC was formed. Funny thing, that.

[PVnRT]

64. Question

Why is it that the response of all the more hardcore Obama supporters on DU, when someone brings up a point like Lydia's, is that "Golly shucks, it's just too hard to try fighting back!"

[Lydia Leftcoast]

68. I have to conclude that the DLC is just fine with coddling the rich

and screwing the poor and continuing senseless wars and that the only thing they don't like about the Republicans is their Puritanism.

[cottonseed]

65. But the Public is NOT going to pressure congress to extend UE benefits. Are you kidding?

Sorry, but how are unemployed Americans going to find the time to become politically active all of sudden? No way your fantasy comes true.

[stray cat]

19. No tax cuts, no unemployment

[Milo_Bloom]

23. Bull and Crap

No Unemployment and the GOP is kicked out in 2 years and THEY KNOW IT.

You take away unemployment and what little spending is propping up the economy goes away.

If things get worse, the blame winds up on the GOP, becuase things WERE improving until they took over.

They needed the UI extension... they just needed an excuse to pass it.

[marlakay]

20. Forget tax cuts

What about unemployment ending for the people whe have not found jobs??

[ProudDad]

34. It's going to happen already to 1/3 of the unemployed

this cave-in does NOTHING for the 99ers...

[ProudDad]

78. Correction - this leaves 2/3 of the (official) unemployed out in the cold (n/t)

[apocalypsehow]

21. "Snips & snails & puppy dog tails" -

That's about the sum (metaphorical) total of the purist response when you put the hard question about that matter to them, as your fine OP does.

Rec. :thumbsup:

[Milo_Bloom]

22. The purist position doesn't have to pass the senate

The Purist position is for the tax cuts to DIE, since they never should have been born in the first place. Yes, even the idiotic middle class tax cuts.

Democrats opposed these tax cuts and filibustered them the first time around.. so much so that the republicans had to pass them in reconciliation (which is why they had a 10 year sunset period.).

The only sticking point is the UI extension, which wasn't really that much of a sticking point anyway, since the GOP actually WANTED it (they need things to get marginally better over the next 2 years to make the case they should be given FULL control).. the problem is, as they had said several times, they wanted them to be "paid for"... After everything, the UI extension could have been tacked onto several different bills and also passed in 2011's reconciliation if the GOP decided it REALLY wanted to fight it in the Senate.

Keep in mind extending UI isn't STIMULUS... it won't CREATE any jobs... it just maintains status quo!

The other stuff in this deal.. is complete GARBAGE. Useless middle class tax cuts (that if you understand the real world and how the tax code works, you find out most of which goes to upper class anyway who will save it and not spend it).. a REGRESSIVE payroll tax holiday.. a lowering of the estate tax and an extra 140 billion to the richest 2% of the country, who won't spend a freakin dime of it.


So what Obama essentially did is give up the ENTIRE FARM to maintain the status quo.

*clap* *clap* *clap*

At least my health care costs are going down, right?

[ProudDad]

36. "At least my health care costs are going down, right? "

Probably not...

The costs of health care are still in the hands of the For-Profit Sick Care industry...

A previous cave-in...

[Milo_Bloom]

40. Sorry... I left off the sarcasm tag... My cost went up about 25% this year.

I am dreading renewal in April!

[ProudDad]

79. Nothing to be sorry about...

Current reality has reached sarcastic proportions so sometimes it's hard to tell... :hi:

I was so happy when I got old enough to get Medicare but then found that it's the worst implementation of a single-payer system in the world... My co-pays and deductibles are the cuts of a 1000 knives when one is depending on a meager Social Security check alone...

But it IS better than the alternative -- and probably the best health insurance system outside of the socialist VA system (at some VA facilities)...

[truthspeak]

28. How do you "convince" a dumb electorate?

All this talk about all Obama needs to do is "just make his case" to the American electorate and he will get support...

Huh? You mean the same electorate that voted against their own interests this year...convince those people?!?!? Considering the "historic uninformed voting" that took place this year...what makes you all so confident that those voters would blame repubs if things went bad?

[provis99]

30. when they take over in Jan, the Republicans will make the tax cuts permanent.

This way, Obama gets the blame for cutting taxes for the rich, while the Republicans can also blame him for increasing the federal debt over the next two years. So it was a completely dumbass move for Obama all around.

[Bluerthanblue]

31. he does have the veto pen.

It isn't the 'republicans' blaming him that matters. They blame him for having an unusual name, they blame him for being articulate, they blame him for being born in Hawaii, they blame him for being young, black and successful, they blame him for inspiring people.....they blame him for...

WE are becoming as bad as they are.

[provis99]

37. they will attach pork barrel amendments to make sure it passes.

[RBInMaine]

52. Get real. It wouldn't pass the Dem Senate, and Obama would veto. You're silly.

[CakeGrrl]

35. Bet they can't.

[niceypoo]

38. LOL

Fighting for your constituency = 'purity'

What a bunch of spin

[frylock]

42. they were set to expire..

try and pay attention ffs.

[cottonseed]

66. Wouldn't that then mean the middle class would see their taxes go up?

Bringing on another even bigger shit storm?

[frylock]

84. the middle class tax would go back to clinton era rate..

this "raise the tax on the middle class" has been a right-wing talking point since these bullshit cuts were put in place. i can't believe people here are parroting that crap.

[cottonseed]

87. That's a fine rationalization for the top marginal rate.

But when middle class people realize they will be paying more taxes after the cuts expire then they had been before. That is essentially a tax raise. That's the way it will play. There's just not enough liberal bloggers and commenters out there to push it any other way.

So, it's reality, i'm not "parroting" right wing talking points there big guy.

Preserving the tax rates on the middle class is fine in that those go back into the economy and act as a stimulus. Perserving the cuts at the top marginal rate, not so much. I think you might be a little confused.

[last_texas_dem]

45. Could it have been done via reconciliation?

I'm not claiming to know the answer here. There may well be some sort of restriction on the use of this procedure to extend tax cuts that I'm oblivious to... but, if there isn't, I would think using reconciliation would make sense. After all, the damn things were passed via reconciliation in the first place, were they not?

[Powdered Toast Man]

47. that's what I was wondering too. n/t

[RBInMaine]

51. Reconciliation is greatly limited, and it was already used once on healthcare. I don't think so.

[frylock]

86. reconciliation isn't like the coaches challenge in the NFL..

there isn't a set amount of reconcilaitions that congress is limited to use.

[lamp_shade]

49. Well said, RB

[jtuck004]

53. A small inaccuracy and a note on how this could have been handled

"And they had to concede on a whole host of extensions of stimulus measures that they did not vote for in the first place and want to oppose again. "

Those stimulus measures were added to GAIN their votes when it passed last year - why is seen as giving them something when they were already given it once? And that is a matter of public record, though I'm too tired of the griping to look it up.

It's not like this was a big secret that these were expiring. Most people have known for 10 years that it had an expiration date.

Months ago the administration and a few members of congress could have started building support for the 98% to keep their cuts, and offered to give the Republicans credit for continuing the "whole host of stimulus measures" that the Repubs liked a couple years ago. People could have been telephoning, and writing, and being educated that - in a time when we have hit record levels of food stamps, when 30 million people are unemployed or underemployed and need our industrial capacity revamped to compete in the modern era, when teachers and firefighters and police are being laid off, states are going bankrupt - it might be unpopular to give the wealthy a couple hundred extra billion on top of the $700 billion they already got in the past 10 years.

Instead, they waited till the very last minute and run around saying there was no other way, the president says he won't sign off on extensions, and then they all go in a room and out comes...this.

That's bad management.

[RBInMaine]

54. "To gain" votes? Where? They got NO GOP House votes and 3 GOP Senate votes.

[jtuck004]

55. Because it was mishandled. They, perhaps,made a strategic mistake by

waiting until after the November elections.

I am guessing that they were surprised by the strength their opponents showed in the election, which left them in
a weaker bargaining position than they would have been if they started this argument prior to that.

There was no reason this had to wait till now. They wasted months of what could have been good organizing and education time, lots of phone calls, letters, and meetings, President Opama using his command of the podium and free access to reporters to juxtapose hungry children with wealthy millionaires. That could have potentially changed the outcome.

We will never know, but we do know that the hundred billion or so the wealthy may walk away with could have been spent in a far
better manner for this country. And we know that those people contributed heavily to the campaign. And anyone is free to take from that what they want.

Then again, it's not over yet.

[ProudDad]

73. By mobilizing public opinion...

the same way the corporations that created the tea-baggers did...

By appealing to Populist sentiment and fairness...

By LISTENING to George Lakoff instead of dissing him the way Obama did in '08...

[jtuck004]

80. Those are all great suggestions, and we never saw them tried.

We know this because they would have been visible, and big. The success of our opponents underlies this claim.

The progressives and socialists taught this country how to organize, and we have them to thank for child labor laws,
40 hour work weeks, paid vacation and more - timeless ideas of basic fairness which we never would have seen
without their dedication, sometimes laying their very lives on the line, organizing and education skills.

Now our opponents seem to be making better use of them, while we kowtow to the corporations that are stealing
the living wage from the children and families of this nation, perhaps for nothing more than stinking campaign donations.

That's just wrong.

[ProudDad]

72. EXACTLY!!! +1000

[quaker bill]

56. failing to pass the senate = pipe dream

not a "purist position". One can want all sorts of fantasy things. I for one would like someone to hand me a few million bucks because I would do all sorts of great and ideal things with it, many of them "purist" to my mind. This will not happen either.

It is not reasonable to define "purism" in that way. Things that will never become law are at best intellectual self-gratification. People can and do enjoy that, I do on occasion, but it is not purism.

[kjackson227]

63. Yes, President Obama did do the right thing...

but since he didn't throw the unemployed and middle-class under the bus to score political points with his far left base, he's now considered to be weak. Sounds like a lot of elitest far left wingers to me. They have their jobs, and are living quite comfortably so to hell with the economy and others who can barely make ends meet... We need to show the Republicans whose boss, and prevent them from getting richer at ALL COSTS. Reminds me of the time when HCR was being debated. Some of us are just too comfortable in throwing others under the bus in their zest to get what they want.

[ProudDad]

71. Since when are Dick Durbin, Steny Hoyer and Chuck Shuman

"far left"?

Surrender before a fight is basically treason...

[kjackson227]

74. okaayyy... left wing elitests. How dare I misconstrue the most...

important fact of the statement. :eyes:

[Vinca]

69. Passing unemployment at Christmas time.

In the end, who would vote against it? One of the biggest problems in our government is how everything is lumped into one, big, oozing, stinky mess for a vote. You might have 1 or 2 good provisions, but the majority of money is spent on useless crap . . . and we get to pay China interest on a massive debt for doing so.

[ProudDad]

70. Ok, I'll go through it again for the dense and hard of hearing...

51 votes to change the rule...

Then 51 votes to pass legislation in the Senate...

http://www.examiner.com/progressive-in-portland/will-oregon-senator-jeff-merkley-reform-the-filibuster

[Warren Stupidity]

95. unrec

what could this administration do that you won't you support?