Does the Congress forget that they already TRIED to pass tax cuts excluding the rich and FAILED?

[jenmito]

What's WRONG with these people who think they should keep dragging out the process of trying to pass tax cuts WITHOUT including the rich? How short is their collective memory?

Do they REALLY think that if they keep debating this (rather than passing it as Obama suggested) they will magically SUCCEED this time? Do they realize they're telling everybody, including every Democratic voter, that they're willing to give up on trying to pass the repeal of DADT, the DREAM Act, START, etc.? How can people here at DU be in favor of Dems. in Congress wasting such valuable time on something that has already proved futile??

[arcane1]

1. Much of DU seems to have forgotten too

I don't see many posts this week asking who will be chosen to run against the incumbents in congress.

[JamesA1102]

25. Too True nt

[Ozymanithrax]

2. Because we are plagued with magical thinking...

or no thinking at all.

Because here, there is no requirement to find 60 votes to get a bill to the floor. One opinion is all that is necessary.

[harun]

3. The Senate failed the House didn't and the House hasn't passed this BS yet.

[jenmito]

4. Right-the Senate FAILED! And they'll fail AGAIN! What's your point?

[harun]

8. My point is let them expire. You think the Senate would still fail

if that happened?

[jenmito]

13. Really? Let them expire and THEN what? The Repubs. will have much more power

and we'll end up with an even WORSE compromise.

[GOTV]

16. Then you let public pressure make the GOP more flexible.

[jenmito]

29. They don't CARE about public pressure. They stuck to "tax cuts for the rich" DESPITE

public opinion, pressure from ads, Dems. trying to shame them, etc.

[GOTV]

32. You are incorrect.

[jenmito]

43. No I'm not. Infinity.

[Hello_Kitty]

76. I guess we should do whatever they want then. eom

[jenmito]

78. On THIS bill, Obama explained why he "negotiated with the hostage taker" in THIS case,

because the hostages were the American people. He got a pretty good deal.

[Hello_Kitty]

82. And 13 months later they'll hold Americans hostage for SS cuts

Because OMG TEH DEFICIT!! The Pres. makes another "good deal" with them and DU will be full of deficit hawks all of a sudden.

[dionysus]

59. they don't give a fuck about "public pressure"

:rofl:

[Beetwasher]

67. This Is Incredible, Now All Of A Sudden DU'ers Are Depending On The Media Properly Informing The

Public. It's like bizzarro DU. It's like the last decade of media bias never happened. Overnight the Corporate Media became dependable again to inform the public.

Unless there's some other method that they think that most of the public will be informed so that they CAN and WILL pressure Repubs to do the right thing.

[harun]

21. They would not have more power. They would be faced with a decreasing

deficit, more money for social programs and wars that are actually funded. That is much scarier to a Republican than it is to a Dem.

GOP and their supporters respond to fear, not reason.

[jenmito]

27. That's not true at all as proven by the votes already taken in the Senate. n/t

[harun]

44. As other's have stated bringing things up for multiple votes is pretty standard.

[jenmito]

55. All that will do is waste the limited time they have.

[harun]

57. I don't think they will do anything with that time anyway. Hope to be proved

wrong though.

[GOTV]

5. The next step is to allow the taxes cuts to expire and shame the GOP with it.

No one's got the guts for a fight.

[young but wise]

6. That's not a good idea because Obama promise not raise taxes on the middle class.

[GOTV]

10. And Obama won't. The law calling for their expiration was passed by the GOP and signed by Bush.

It is the Bush/GOP tax increase occurring on schedule.

Obama can only sign the bills that get passed. If the GOP want to stand in the way of tax cuts the voters should return fewer of them to congress.

Remember the people are on Obama's side.

[phleshdef]

81. Unfortunately, we have a lot of voters that don't make judgements based on the fair facts.

Come next year, when/if everyone's taxes go up and the unemployed are getting no additional help, people will feel the pain and they will blame Obama for not getting it done. But if he gets it done by compromising, the left will blame him for getting it done. Its a lose/lose and I blame the Democratic leadership for not getting this out of the way before the election. The Whitehouse wanted them to.

[Beetwasher]

9. I'm Sure The Media Will Report What Happened Honestly, Because That's What They Always Do

And of course the public will be properly educated and informed of what happened and why and the blame will be correctly assigned where it rightfully belongs, on the Repubs. Just like on DU, where we are not influenced by Corp. Media, so we get the REAL picture and we all properly assign blame for the failure to get legislation through Congress; on the Congress and Repubs who are fillibustering it. Right?

[GOTV]

14. If you make it a good story the media will report it. Even Joe Scar. blasted the GOP ...

... over the irresponsibility of the tax cuts.

[Beetwasher]

22. Riiiiiiggggghhhhhhttt!!! Yeah! Sure! That Happens All The Time With Dems!!!

On what planet? Oh, they'll report it all right. But on what planet will it be reported CORRECTLY and HONESTLY so the public is actually INFORMED? Not on this planet and you know it. Maybe from a few sources it will be, but those are few and far between and you damn well know it.

[GOTV]

28. It happens. You do realize that, media be damned, the public is with the old Obama.

The all powerful media, before which you cower, has not sold the need to pass tax cuts for everyone.

The all powerful media were not able to prevent a Dem take over a few years ago.

I'm not scared of your media boogey-man.

[Beetwasher]

33. Yes!! Trust The Corporate Media To Tell The TRUTH About Dems!! Great Strategy!!

:eyes:

[GOTV]

37. I just showed you it working.

[Beetwasher]

47. No You Didn't, Just Because Dems Have Sometimes Succeeded DESPITE IT

Doesn't mean it "works".

But you go ahead and keep trusting it to serve you well.

[GOTV]

50. And therefore it is not all powerful and we need not fear it just because you do.

I didn't say it works. In fact, since the public is against tax cuts for billionaires, I'd say the media doesn't work against us when we have a good story.

[Beetwasher]

62. I Didn't Say It Was All Powerful Though Did I? But You're Naive If You Think We Can Trust People

Will be informed about the situation properly. Very naive and very wrong.

[Uzybone]

39. out of touch DUer thinking a dumb cable show at 6am is a sign of fair media

what a joke

[GOTV]

41. I never said it's a fair media. You realize the media has failed to sell the GOP priorities so far

how do you explain that?

[Uzybone]

46. they've failed to sell GOP policies?

Then why does the GOP win elections?

We pay too much attention to the latest CNN/Gallup BS poll showing that America is with us. When it comes to the actual ballot box, people are voting GOP. Why is that?

[GOTV]

52. Yes, the GOP wants tax cuts for the rich, the public wants them only for the middle class.

... Dems: 1 Media: 0

[Life Long Dem]

26. The media has to be spinning this as we speak.

Or we'd be asking "what's wrong with these people" in Congress.

[jenmito]

15. Don't you get it? The GOP HAS no shame! If they let them all expire,

after wasting all their time fighting, the Repubs. will come back in Jan. with much greater numbers, with the majority in the House, and the Dems. will have to accept a WORSE deal in the end.

[GOTV]

17. They certainly do have shame. They all want to get re-elected.

[jenmito]

20. And they're going to only get a BETTER deal for their rich friends if Dems. don't

accept the current compromise.

[GOTV]

23. So you say. The public is on the presidents side on this (I mean last-week Obama)

[jenmito]

31. You just proved my point. The GOP KNOWS the public is not on their side. They don't care!

They already got elected and now will do anything to help their rich friends.

[GOTV]

35. You are sadly misinformed - Boehner: "I'll Drop Tax Cut for Rich If I Have To"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/12/ftn/main6858401.shtml

But with Obama in charge there was little chance that the GOP would "have to"

Why don't you drop the "GOP are robots" meme. It confuses you.

[jenmito]

42. Boehner LIED. He proved that in his vote last Saturday. Why do you believe and defend him? n/t

[GOTV]

53. I believe him in this case because he had nothing to gain by the admission

It showed weakness

[jenmito]

56. He had a LOT to gain-the respect of the middle class. Then he lied and voted against it. n/t

[GOTV]

58. Not credible.

He said he's vote against tax cuts for the rich if he had to. He didn't have to because Obama caved.

That's not a lie.

[jenmito]

61. Obama came out AFTER the bill failed. Boehner lied, but good for you for trusting him. n/t

[CitizenLeft]

36. but NOT their Republican base - who will primary them if they fold.

They will NOT give in, ever, no matter what "public opinion" says because the only opinion that matters to them are the people who voted them in. End of story.

[GOTV]

38. Winning a primary does not put you in office. You still have to face the people you screwed.

[vaberella]

72. You realize that some of those tax cuts included us...right?

You wanted us to lose everything when we need it most now.

[Beetwasher]

7. This Time They Will REALLY Try, Kick Their Heels Together, Spread The Fairy Dust Around, THEN

It will work and Repubs will stop fillibustering. But you have to use the exact correct amount of fairy dust, right down to the microscopic grain or it will STILL be Obama's fault it failed.

[jenmito]

19. Exactly...

it's so pathetic that they really think something will change during this lame duck session and they'll magically pass the bills that they already failed to pass.

[TwilightGardener]

11. Thanks. They are acting like they haven't had a bite at this apple yet

before Obama ruined it for them.

[jenmito]

24. Exactly! They keep saying "Obama caved" after it was the Dems. in Congress who

"caved" by voting with the Repubs. That won't change with another vote. Nor would it change if Obama had come out yesterday and argued that he wanted a bill to extend tax cuts only for the middle class NOW.

[GOTV]

30. Because he did cave. The blue dogs did not cave. They voted their misguided principles.

[jenmito]

34. He's not a magician. He didn't get the votes needed in the Senate and never would've.

[GOTV]

40. My crystal ball works differently than yours. Sometimes you need to take more than one swing ...

.... to win a fight.

[jenmito]

45. My crystal ball works. Yours doesn't. n/t

[polichick]

12. Often, a bill is brought up over and over again - that's how unemployment benefits...

...usually get passed. Pressure builds from voters and media attention.

If the president hadn't signaled his intention to fold and, instead, indicated that he would veto any bill with tax cuts for the rich (as Axelrod said he would this fall), we wouldn't be here.

[jenmito]

48. Great-let them spend the entire lame duck session retaking votes and failing...

not only to pass THAT, but everything ELSE that needs to get done.

[Donnachaidh]

54. so accept a backroom deal that isn't even on paper yet is the alternative

Yeah -- that worked out so well with Tarp. :sarcasm:

I love the smell of lockstep in the morning. :sarcasm: :rofl:

[jenmito]

64. THEIR way FAILED. What don't you and they understand about that?

53 votes does NOT pass a bill in the Senate.

[polichick]

69. As several congresspeople have said, you don't walk off the field...

...in the seventh inning - you keep bringing bills up for a vote.

We've never had to give up anything to get Republicans to eventually agree to unemployment benefits.

And, as Sherrod Brown has pointed out, it would be very helpful to have the president out in the states of Republicans we want to pressure at the same time that the bill keeps being brought up for a vote.

[jenmito]

71. What don't you understand about them having no time to fight this (which they

already had TWO votes on and lost)? Obama had been giving speech after speech before the midterms in which he always said he didn't want to give ANY tax cuts for the rich, Congress didn't vote on it 'til AFTER the midterms, they failed, Obama got a compromise deal so they could pass it and move on to OTHER important things, and now they want to keep debating this to the detriment of everything else? It's stupid and it will fail.

[polichick]

73. What don't you understand about the president cutting a horrific deal with the devil??

Fortunately, wise Dems in the House and Senate are trying to stop this fiasco.

[jenmito]

77. You're wrong. He cut a deal to help those he promised he'd help.

And you obviously forget that the Senate already voted on no tax cuts for the rich. They FAILED. TWICE.

[Milo_Bloom]

18. They should what they did when the tax cuts were first proposed.

VOTE AGAINST THEM ALL.

[Phx_Dem]

49. Don't be trying to bring actual facts into this little snit.

That just confuses them. :P

[jenmito]

63. Sorry...

I should know better. :D

[Donnachaidh]

51. totally different vote with a different package --

But nice try pushing the talking points from the WH.

:rofl:

[dionysus]

60. right, if they try a "new package", there's no way the GOP would fillibuster it...

:eyes:

[bvar22]

65. Permanent Tax Cuts for the RICH...

...have many hard working advocates here at DU.



Go figure.

[jenmito]

66. Wrong. They have many Conservadem advocates in the SENATE.

Yet Obama gets blamed. Go figure.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

68. Apparently a symbolic victory (or I guess, loss) is more important

than actually accomplishing anything at the end of the day? :shrug: I mean, hey, you fight a good fight and you try and get the best deal that you can but at the end of the day, you have to actually DO something too to keep things going. President Obama and a few other Democratic leaders seem to understand this but a lot of other people can't- or won't.

[jenmito]

70. Exactly. Thank you! n/t

[Robbins]

74. Obama

He promised not to raise taxes on the middle Class.Republicans and the MSM would love to be able to say he raised taxes.By agreeing to let rich keep tax Cuts for 2 years he got the Middle class tax cuts,the breaks In the Stimulas,and Unemployment Insurance extended.

Congress should have held vote before election.They didn't.

Of course Bohener lied before election about voting for Middle class tax cuts only.Republicans care for only tax cuts for the rich.

The Senate failed to pass Middle class tax Cuts only.

May I remind people some who are In House and Senate who claim to be Democrats are not real Democrats.

Under present reality this Is best we could get.And I certainly don't like tax cuts for the rich but this has things that can help.

[jenmito]

75. You hit EVERY point. I recommend this post.

:hi:

[Bluenorthwest]

79. The DADT vote is going forward you know

Collins has agreed to four days of debate then a vote. Which is a good thing, by the way.

[jenmito]

83. THANKS! I read they were still talking to her, but I didn't know she agreed!

That is a VERY good thing! :hi:

[Major Hogwash]

80. Yeah, but that was clear back on Saturday!!!!!!!!!!!

What's that one definition for insanity?

LoL

[Radical Activist]

84. Congressional Democrats stand up to Obama better than they stand up to Republicans.

Amazing. And disgraceful.
There should be no doubt about where the real problem has been for the past two years and it wasn't with Obama.