** Heads Up: Reid about to bring up DADT Repeal Vote **

[Clio the Leo]

.... on CSPAN2 now ... and it's not looking good. Harry's slamming GOP (not something you'd do if you'd come to an agreement)

[Clio the Leo]

1. "Members of GOP caucus are working to block this at all costs." nt

[patrice]

2. If repeal of DADT makes it through and the Dream Act doesn't that's the end of what is calling itsel

f "the Left" these days.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

13. Heavens, I hope they both eventually pass, but it is not one against

the other. I would find some victory in either passing, as we redouble efforts to pass the other. :shrug:

[patrice]

119. I hope we work together, but apparently that's an idea "from outside of the Left" whatever"the left"

is.

[hlthe2b]

120. I'd like to see us work together on both as well..

FWIW , the other poster was wrong to jump to conclusions re: your intent.

[patrice]

128. Thanks. Old Deanocrat here. I remember what it's like to be on fire with the truth & then run into

a wall called reality.

We MUST work together to become an authentic movement and . . .

NGU!

:hi:

[arcane1]

24. Why would that be the "end of the left"?

One bill passed, the other didn't... that's not too bad really.

[karynnj]

25. That makes no sense

I - and I bet 99.99999 % of people here want both - and from earlier votes in the Senate, both have the vast majority of Democratic Senators.

The dynamics are different - ON THE REPUBLICAN side. At this point, there are Republican who have said that they support the repeal - and the issues are other things. If we do get those Republicans and the Defense bill passes, it is an important civil rights moment and important because we do not ask people in the service to lie about their lives and we can retain - say - Arab linguists who happen to be gay.

That is not saying that DREAM is not important - or even that it will fail. I may have not followed it closely enough, but I haven't heard that it has 2 Republicans yet - and assuming we have all the Democrats, that's what we need.

[Clio the Leo]

3. Reid moves to consider the cloture ... Collins objects....

.... Reid angrilly says "it's not debatable." (Angry in Harry terms anyway)

[TwilightGardener]

4. Rats--things must have broken down.

[Clio the Leo]

5. TURN ON CSPAN2 NOW!!!!

.... this is happening way too fast .... that's all I can say ATM.

[donco6]

7. Can't at work, but am trying to read. n/t

[karynnj]

36. Brown of MA - NO All the yeses were Democrats so far

[jefferson_dem]

8. I study this shit and haven't a clue what's going on.

Is Harry calling Collins' bluff? Is Collins posturing? Unless, there's something up his sleeve, DADT repeal may be dying before our eyes.

[dave29]

9. odd that there was little heads up on this, and even more so that DU does not seem to care

.

[Uzybone]

11. its actual governing, DU cares more about theatrics and cable shows

[young but wise]

23. +1

[Clio the Leo]

28. yeah but you dont GET better theater than this. nt

[lamp_shade]

19. There are a few of us left, Dave. I'm one.

[cally]

10. I can't figure out the vote?

Does anyone know what's going on?

[NRaleighLiberal]

15. watching now...and no idea (voting on whether to begin work???) n/t

[jefferson_dem]

16. EVERYBODY is clueless.

Collins says all she wanted were votes and debate on a few additional amendments. Harry said no dice. Collins is "perplexed." We all are. Doesn't look good. FUCK!

[Clio the Leo]

27. the reporters who do this for a living are as confused as the rest of us...

.... my Twitter stream is about to explode.

[AlinPA]

35. Republicans are stopping everything. It is a big joke.

[patrice]

80. Ergo, we should just let Bush's Tax Cuts sunset and do battle on each of these other issues ONE at a

time.

[AlinPA]

123. Yes.

[vaberella]

48. Neither can I...I'm lost. n/t

[Clio the Leo]

12. Here is what I THINK happened....

.... just based on everything I've read.

Collins was going to vote for cloture (the magical 60th vote) IF alowed to make amendments AND given four days to debate whether or not there should cloture.

GOP is sticking to their plan of not letting anything else pass w/out the tax bill.

Harry was fine on the amendments part ... but not the four days of debate part. He made several references to the GOP holding everything up over the tax bill. Obviously we know the problem the House is having with the tax bill vote. Harry also wants to get the Senate's part of the tax bill done.

I think, in short, Harry's afraid of running out of time to get the tax bill done by both chambers to the Pres. for signature.

But, again, that's just my interpretation based on what they just said and everything I've read.

[lamp_shade]

26. That's my interpretation as well.

[jenmito]

14. Susan Collins just said she doesn't understand why Reid is bringing it up NOW when she has

been working with Reid and Lieberman, that she was even willing to debate it until the tax bill is done, then continue AFTER it's done.

[justiceischeap]

20. So basically, Reid is saying you are not going to hold this Bill hostage

To see what happens with the tax bill. If I get the gist of her statement and his.

[Clio the Leo]

22. .... and she mentioned the tax bill...

..... she wants the tax bill brought up NOW, Reid's not ready (my guess is that Senate/House/WH are still working on it and it's NOT ready to come up.)

[lamp_shade]

17. Sounds to me like he told her to go pound salt. He remembers well the crap that

Olympia Snowe pulled during the HRC negotiations and I don't think he's willing to let it happen again. I think Collins is the one playing games here and Harry just called her on it.

[Clio the Leo]

21. ... well, I think it's the larger GOP caucus more than her, but yeah. nt

[Clio the Leo]

18. ** "Collins doesn't want Reid being able to pick which GOP amd's are offered."

According to my main source for Senate news...

I think the thing being misunderstood here is Collins doesn't want Reid being able to pick which GOP amd's are offered.
http://twitter.com/#!/senatus/status/12969419525332992

[jefferson_dem]

29. That's it?

DADT repeal goes down in flames because of that petty shit? Unacceptable!

[jenmito]

31. Maybe Reid found out he doesn't need her vote? n/t

[lamp_shade]

34. I hope you're right.

[AlinPA]

30. It's all dead. DADT Repeal, New START, 9/11 Health Bill, Dream Act. The goddamn

republicans are against all those bills. It's over. They control the goddamn senate with their 41 stinking votes.

I am sick of hearing about how Brown or Collins or Snowe or Murkowksi or Nelson any of these pigs will vote for decency.

To hell with Lieberman as he sucks up to his friend McCain and tries to take the lead on DADT Repeal. You know the dirty bastard will do anything that McCain wants.

[karynnj]

50. Why attack Lieberman on this? - he has done what he could

Other than finding something to blackmail the Republicans on what could he possibly do.

Blame the REPUBLICANS.

[AlinPA]

126. I do blame the republicans. He is one for all practical purpose. For christ sakes, he spoke

at the republican convention against Democrats and for McCain.

He campaigned for Palin.

He stood on a goddamn stage and smiled and nodded his head in agreement when Palin said Obama was a terrorist.

He said he would back his friend McCain on everything.

The only reason he is involved in DADT is to scuttle it, acting for his beloved friend McCain.

How can anyone believe that he is actually trying to pass the DADT repeal? Bullshit.

[karynnj]

127. I KNOW he supported McCain

and I remember well him speaking - IN FAVOR of Bush's Iraq policy when he was a surrogate (very briefly) for Kerry in 2004. I also remember him calling Kerry/Feingold worse names than most Republicans did.

But, he is very good on civil rights - he went to the South in favor of voting rights when he was a student at Yale in the early 1960s. He is good on this issue - and he always has been.

[karynnj]

58. Snowe and the new WV Senator (whose name I am not sure how to spell) were nos.

[SidDithers]

32. ...

Edit: jumped the gun

Sid

[Mass]

33. So, Collins and Brown have found a new reason to vote NO on this.

I had predicted that.

They have been playing this game for a while now. Saying they dont oppose DADT then voting against cloture for whatever other reason.

[karynnj]

39. Saw that -and you were fight

Do you know what it was?

[WI_DEM]

41. How does Brown get away with presenting himself as a moderate in MA?

[Mass]

46. He gets acclaimed each time he says he supports DADT, then people forget

and the next time he says he supports it, they think it is a big progress and acclaim again.

The media still love him, unfortunately.

[Clio the Leo]

37. And Harry made it clear THIS was her chance to vote for cloture if she wanted it...

... and she could offer the ammendements she/they wanted. What he was NOT willing to give was the four days of debates.

[terrya]

38. And now the finger pointing will start.

The LCR will blame Reid, the Democrats will blame the Republicans.

This is NOT going to end now. We pursue this in the courts if we have to.

[dave29]

43. looks like that's the only option, Congress can't do shit.

.

[dave29]

40. Fuck.

[Clio the Leo]

42. Collins is waving around angrily ...

.... her papers, gesturing when she talks. (white coat.)

[Clio the Leo]

44. How many R yes votes do we need? 2? 3?

... I've lost count.

[Clio the Leo]

49. ... we need 2 .... if all Dems vote yes. nt

[vaberella]

51. I was hoping that we'd have Murkowski. But I think this failed.

It's not looking good for us.

[Tx4obama]

45. Live Stream link below

http://cspan.org/Watch/C-SPAN2.aspx

[Clio the Leo]

54. thanks and sorry........

...... I was dumbstruck through the whole thing.

[jenmito]

47. Today Gibbs said DADT will either end through Congress or through the courts. n/t

[Clio the Leo]

52. ** Manchin has voted NO ** ........ and that's it....

.... we couldn't afford a D voting no.

[geek tragedy]

56. What a fine replacement for Robert Byrd he turned out

to be.

[vaberella]

60. Special group of assholes. n/t

[Imajika]

68. Manchin is effectively a Republican...

In the Senate next year there are 47 Republicans with actual R's by their names.

But there are actually several more conservatives, they just have D's by their names instead of R's. Such Senators include Manchin, Nelson, etc.

While Reid will be majority leader, the right wing will have a working majority in the Senate AND they will have a huge outright majority in the House.

[otohara]

53. Murokowski?

what happened?

[vaberella]

57. Can't trust her. n/t

[lamp_shade]

59. She must be a good friend of Collins'

[tosh]

62. I think she voted yes.

[jenmito]

65. She voted no.

[vaberella]

73. It was a big no for her. n/t

[jenmito]

63. She and the other "no" votes who said they'd vote "yes" said they first need the tax bill to be done

with.

[Mass]

66. Same thing as Brown and Collins. Saying they support DADT does not cost anything

because they dont vote on it, but on a cloture motion on the full defense bill that they will oppose for another reason.

[jenmito]

55. If this cloture vote fails, which it will, do they get to try again later? n/t

[Clio the Leo]

61. nope ........ we move to Canada as this country is clearly broken. nt

[Clio the Leo]

64. Or apologize to Queen Elizabeth ... "sorry, we were wrong, can we come back?"

[justiceischeap]

67. Does that also mean no Defense Bill?

Cause this is attached to the Defense Bill, so they're voting against that too, right?

[alcibiades_mystery]

72. They have to vote NO on cloture for the whole defense authorization in order to kibosh DADT repeal

That's correct.

[Tx4obama]

77. Correct. It's the Defense Appropriation bill that they're voting cloture on

The DADT repeal is just one tiny bit of the bill.

[Clio the Leo]

117. for the moment...

.... we'll get a defense bill eventually, just prob. not with DADT in it.

[vaberella]

71. I moved to France...so yeah, you're on the right track. n/t

[jenmito]

74. They really can't bring it up again after the tax bill passes?

[alcibiades_mystery]

79. Sure they can... Reid will vote NO on cloture

He will bring it up again. This is all theatrics for the House Dems.

[Clio the Leo]

118. Dont think you can bring up an identical bill you've already defeated. (essentially)

[alcibiades_mystery]

69. Reid will have to vote NO as well

And bring it up again next week.

That said, with this bad blood on it, the GOPers may well tell Reid to beat sand and bring up the Defense Authorization next session, which will make removal of DADT repeal from the bill all but a certainty.

[Tx4obama]

70. Yes. If it looks like it will fail then Sen Reid will vote no, then he can bring it up again.

It's a procedural thing that makes Sen Reid vote 'no'.
If he were to vote yes then it would be dead.

[jenmito]

76. Thanks for the info. n/t

[terrya]

87. Yes, in the next Senate, with Senators Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, etc

Fuck the Republicans AND the Democrats. A plague on all of them.

[alcibiades_mystery]

93. Not true

He could bring it up again tomorrow if he votes NO on cloture.

[terrya]

101. Thanks. Sorry.

I called one of my Senators, Mark Kirk, several times urging him to vote for repeal. He said he wanted to wait for the Pentagon study. Well, I sort of had ridiculous hopes that he would do the right thing.

Thanks for clairifying things.

[alcibiades_mystery]

113. KEEP calling him

I'm in Illinois too. I called him yesterday.

Let's keep on him!!!

[Clio the Leo]

75. ** "Reid doesn't want to grant an open amd process b/c one GOP member could indefinitely stall bill"

Consequently, Reid doesn't want to grant an open amd process b/c one GOP member could indefinitely stall defense bill.
http://twitter.com/#!/senatus/status/12972826545885184

[alcibiades_mystery]

82. I suspect this is a show put on for the benefit of the House Dems

[vaberella]

78. Is it just me or is does it sound like people are changing their votes?! I'm confused. n/t

[patrice]

97. There may be more pressure than they expected on Dream, I'm hoping.

[karynnj]

98. Collins did - I don't know if anyone else did

I heard Snowe and Brown as No. Is Murkowsky a yes? If she is, we still need one more because the WV guy was a no

[Rhiannon12866]

121. She voted "no..."

:(

[karynnj]

122. Thanks

[Clio the Leo]

81. Claire McCaskill now waving her hands around at Collins/Murk...

... she's a D,but remember she's a moderate D, one that can lend a sympathetic ear to the right but she looks PISSED. (love her)

[vaberella]

91. Murkowski and Manchin need to change their goddamn votes. n/t

[SidDithers]

83. Collins voted yes!

Sid

[tosh]

84. Collins Aye!

[karynnj]

85. Collins - AYE!!!!

[Uzybone]

88. Yayyyyy!!!

[great white snark]

90. Good!

[great white snark]

86. I'm fucking pissed.

I'm starting to wonder if the GOP are even human.

[Clio the Leo]

89. COLLINS CHANGES HER VOTE!! ... or votes Aye .... cant rememebr!!! lol nt

[vaberella]

94. She changed her vote man. They're changing their votes.

WE need Manchin and Murkowski to do the same and we're good.

[Mass]

96. Voting AYE now she knows the votes are not there. Or are other changes coming?

[dave29]

109. yeah it was CYA.

sad.

[jenmito]

92. COLLINS VOTED YES. Dana Bash just reported.

[Clio the Leo]

95. Kerry just gave Reid a very sympathetic pat on the back. nt

[vaberella]

99. Yeah, watching it now. Why isn't Manchin changing his bloody vote. n/t

[jenmito]

100. Brown, Murkowski, and others who voted no did so because they wanted the tax bill to get done first.

[vaberella]

102. Let's get this done first and then they get their fuckin' tax bill. Shit. n/t

[jenmito]

108. All 42 signed onto McConnell's bill saying they wouldn't vote on ANYTHING 'til the tax bill's done.

[Mass]

103. And? Wealthy before troups? How is it something positive.

[great white snark]

106. Puzzling huh?

Their priorities are showing.


Edited for clarity

[jenmito]

110. According to Repubs., yes.

[Clio the Leo]

105. yep. nt

[SidDithers]

Fuck. 57-40...nt

Sid

[Clio the Leo]

104. **** Fails, 57/40 ****

[Mass]

107. So 58 to 39 including Reid.Very disappointing, including from Collins, who changed her vote

once it was clear the votes were not there.

[alcibiades_mystery]

111. 58-39 including Reid...he had to vote no to bring it back up

[Mass]

112. Thanks.

[jenmito]

114. Reid can bring up the tax bill in the next day or so and then bring this bill up again...

and it will probably pass!

[Mass]

115. Or they will find another excuse not to vote for it. You are too nice with .

these GOPers.

[jenmito]

124. They only need 2 votes along with Reid. Collins and Lieberman are holding a news conference soon,

according to CNN. I'm sure they'll talk about having the votes before Jan. 1st.

[Tx4obama]

125. Brown said he was going to vote yes, but voted no. So maybe he will go back to be a 'yes'. n/t

[AlinPA]

130. Dreaming. Brown is a dirty liar as is Collins.

[AlinPA]

129. Collins and Lieberman in a press conference?? Omigod. That's as good as Lieberman and McCain.

Why does Reid have that POS republican up front on this? Lieberman is operating for McCain and will get this DADT Repeal killed. He is one big fake. Horrible.

[Clio the Leo]

116. lol unfortuantly, you sound more optimistic than Harry did.

[AlinPA]

131. It's over, folks.