I have 57 points, you have 40 points. You win

[Uzybone]

These Senate rules suck.

[slackmaster]

1. They suck until the shoe is on the other foot

Then they rock.

[Cali_Democrat]

2. When the Dems can filibuster things like the Iraq War Authorization

They refuse.

[slackmaster]

3. Playing the minority role requires conviction and commitment to principles

Things not often seen in career politicians.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. Bullshit.

Republicans have no principles except "power at all costs". That is the ONLY thing they are displaying.

[slackmaster]

16. As you said they have one principle, but you can't deny they're committed to it.

You may not like their principle, but there it is.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Imajika]

No, but they did filibuster things like drilling in ANWR...

I think the entire filibuster and requiring 60 votes to do anything is nonsense, but of one thing you can be absolutely certain - all this talk of filibuster reform from the left will die immediately if the Republicans win control of the Senate in 2012. If the GOP wins, they will suddenly be interested in filibuster reform and the Democrats will oppose it. That's just how it goes.

[onenote]

8. 29 Democrats supported the IAW

So its not as if filibustering was going to work.

Also, while the repubs have abused the filibuster process and it almost certainly is need of reform, throwing it out completely would be a terrible idea. Remember, there are examples of successful filibusters by Democrats on such matters as drilling in ANWR, a bill to permanently repeal the estate tax, the federal marriage amendment, a bad immigration bill, to name a few. Also, several judicial nominations were blocked (yes, the deal cut by the gang of 14 allowed some of those nominees to be confirmed, but some, like Estrada and Pickering, never were confirmed).

[Cali_Democrat]

15. What are you talking about?

If all the Dems in the Senate opposed the IWR, it would have failed the Senate because of a filibuster.

[onenote]

20. the point is of course that all the Democrat in the Senate DIDN'T oppose IWR

So its pointless to talk about their failure to filibuster that bill. Now, if the Democrats had forty votes against drilling in ANWR, but not a majority, and they had failed to filibuster the bill, that would have been a case of them dropping the ball.

[Cali_Democrat]

24. True

But ANWR is an exception.

It just seems like the Dems are much more reluctant to use the filibuster than the rethugs and it's frustrating.

[onenote]

26. its not so much that Democrats were more reluctant as the fact that the repubs changed the game

Its not as if the repubs were that much more active in using the filibuster when the Democrats controlled the majority in the 1980s and 1990s than the Democrats after they regained the majority. The test will be what happens the next time the repubs gain the majority (or even next session when they may have a majority on some bills with the support of conservative Dems like Machin, Nelson, etc.)

[Freddie Stubbs]

17. That wasn't something Democrats in the Senate wanted to stop

[AlinPA]

32. Exactly.

[dennis4868]

4. yep.....

and that gived you tax cuts for the rich, no help for 911 responders, and the continuation of DADT, and so much more....and this party will have more power in just a few weeks thanks to the voting public....fuck!

[robinlynne]

11. remember who counts the votes. Christian right-wing owned corporations.

not human beings. remember that.

[Zywiec]

30. Christian right-wing owned corporations count Senate votes?

who knew?

:shrug:

[robinlynne]

31. "thanks to the voting public" is what I responded to. Read, then think, then speak.

It was NOT thanks to the voting public that the republicans are in power. or at least we do not know and never will know what the real votes were. The votes are counted by diebold. owned by right wing christians. In most cases there is no way to check,. When there is a way to check you have to go to court and the judges rule against the recounts anyway. 70-80% of American votes are "insecure" for lack of a better word.

[jpgray]

5. "How come you get the same points for WY and OK as I get for NY and CA?"

The mysteries of the Senate are many.

[Uzybone]

14. that is by far the greatest injustice in our politics

Proportional representation of some sort should be in the Senate.

[great white snark]

6. What a truly disgusting vote.

How many Senate seat are in play for '12?

[Dawson Leery]

7. Only in America (and third world tinpot dictatorships): 40>57

[onenote]

10. Did you make that same argument when Democrats blocked ANWR drilling with 43 votes against cloture?

I hate this result and think some ways of reforming the filibuster have to be explored. But I don't recall anyone crying about the US being equivalent to a tinpot dictatorship when repub proposals like drilling in ANWR were being blocked by Democratic opposition to cloture, often by margins similar to the one we just saw today.

Again, something needs to be done to regulate the practice, but let's not pretend we haven't been on the other side of the fence.

[kath]

21. rarely "on the other side of the fence" - Repubs have set historic records (by a longshot) on using

the filibuster in the past few years, whereas "Democrats" very, very, very rarely have the spine to do so.

[onenote]

22. and that's why some reform is needed

But merely complaining that a bill can get blocked when there are 57 votes for it is hypocritical.

[Dawson Leery]

25. As another poster stated, the GOP has used the filibuster

as a mean to stop Obama and the Democrats to weaken them and remove them from power.

[onenote]

27. agreed. and to repeat myself, that is why reform is needed

But my post was directed at a post that claimed that a vote in which a majority of 57 is stymied by a minority of 43 makes us look like a tinpot dictatorship when we have applauded precissely such a vote in the past and would do so tomorrow if it served our interests.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

9. i'm crying right now.

forgive me

[TriMera]

23. .

I'm all cried out.:hug:

[bigwillq]

12. If only this were basketball (nt)

[stopbush]

19. Because the rules are "first one to 60 wins."

Just like ping-pong is "first one to 21 who leads by 2 wins."

[emulatorloo]

28. If there weren't so many Fucking Republican Robots in the Senate it would not be such

A problem. Mission Destroy Obama is too important to the Robot Army.

[discopants]

29. As soon as the GOP has the Senate majority they will change the filibuster rule

to make sure the minority can never block votes. They will never allow the roles to be reversed of what happened this last 2 years.

[AlinPA]

33. That is 100% correct. But if they lose the Senate, they will change it in December of the year they

would lose the majority.