Taken as a whole, the majority of Americans support the compromise.

[RBInMaine]

As an individual question, PERMANENT tax cuts for the wealthy are not popular. However, the specifics of the compromise which include extending tax cuts for the middle class, extending the tax cuts for the rich for ONLY two years, and adding an extension of jobless benefits is quite popular overall and the majority wants it to pass. If Dems in the House hold out over ideological abstraction, they will take a serious beating on Jan. 1st when middle class taxes go up, and they will be pummeled in 2012. So go ahead House Dems. Mire in ideological abstraction and doom the party. Good job.

GALLUP - December 8, 2010

Americans Support Two Major Elements of Tax CompromiseLiberal vs. conservative/moderate Democrats disagree on extending tax cuts for allby Lydia SaadPRINCETON, NJ:

"Two major elements included in the tax agreement reached Monday between President Barack Obama and Republican leaders in Congress meet with broad public support. Two-thirds of Americans (66%) favor extending the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for all Americans for two years, and an identical number support extending unemployment benefits for the long-term unemployed.

According to Gallup polling conducted Dec. 3-6, the slight majority of Democrats, as well as most independents and Republicans, would vote for a two-year extension of the tax cuts passed in 2001 and 2003.

This differs slightly from a November Gallup poll giving Americans three options for extending the Bush tax cuts. That poll found 40% in favor of extending the tax cuts for all Americans, 44% in favor of extending them with limits on tax breaks for the wealthy, and 13% in favor of letting the tax breaks expire altogether. Nevertheless, the results of the new question suggest that, while the compromise position on taxes may not be their ideal, most Americans would support congressional passage of it."

(Google this to see the actual numbers. Notice how strongly Indies, who you must have to win national elections, support the compromise provisions.)

[Hannah Bell]

1. no they don't. that's spin.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Ya Think

You think Joe Four Pack, he can't afford a six pack anymore, gives a rat's ass if some fat cat gets a tax break as long as he gets his. And do you think Joe Four Pack is going to forego a tax cut to ensure some fat cat doesn't get one.

[RBInMaine]

5. That's just the problem. Too many are not thinking how regular people think. They are stuck in ideo

logical abstraction and can't see how Joe Sixpack thinks.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Joe Six Pack Is A Victim Of The Economy

He's been reduced to a four pack. If it gets worse he will be making his own brew...

[peacebird]

12. making his own costs more than buying cheap american beer

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. My Friend Almost Had To Go The Hospital After Making A Bad Brew With His Son In Law

I forgot what he did wrong.

[Cherchez la Femme]

45. Right -- we're not 'regular people'

Jesus tap-dancing Christ, have you no shame?

[polmaven]

11. Even on the Ed Schultz show

the other night - after all of his raging all week against the compromise! The question was 'Should the Democrats keep fighting against the compromise?" The result was Yes-49%, No-51%. If Big Ed fans favor the compromise, even after all his ranting, that, tome, says a lot.

[Hannah Bell]

41. yes, it's spin. the poll results dependent on the question asked.

a poll designed to get the results desired.

[RBInMaine]

4. Yes they do. They don't like PERMANENT cuts for the rich, but they DO want the compromise to pass.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. You Are 100% Right

Polls indicate that a majority of Americans oppose tax cuts for the rich but not if it means they have to forego their tax cuts

[Possumpoint]

14. Says Who?

The ideal is that our politicians get real and face facts when it comes the managing the finances of this great country. Stop pandering for votes to the voters and fix the mess. All this BS about this or that will cause job loss or gain is smoke and mirrors to sell votes.

Fix it or we the people will fix it when the house of cards comes down.

[Phx_Dem]

29. Correct. n/t

[JoePhilly]

56. Correct ... and its easy to prove.

All one has to do is find a middle class person who is not a DU member, and who doesn't spend every night watching political news shows at night.

These are the folks watching "Dancing with the Stars" or some Law and Order clone ... or maybe Nickelodeon with the kids.

What those folks know is that there taxes may or may not go up. They do not want their own personal taxes to go up. Period.

And if you tell them that they should let them expire, increasing their personal taxes, so that the super rich don't get a huge tax cut that will increase the deficit ... well ... they stopped listening the SECOND you said their personal taxes would go up.

[Phx_Dem]

28. No, that's a Gallup poll. Spin is what happens on DU.

[Cherchez la Femme]

46. Yes it is happening here

the OP is a perfect example

[ZombieHorde]

55. How did you come to that conclusion? nt

[AmericaIsGreat]

2. Interestingly enough

If it's true it shouldn't be surpring. The American public are a bunch of dumbshits.

[RBInMaine]

6. Pretty elitist thing to say to say the least. Get out of abstraction and into the real world.

[joeprogressive]

24. ok, I'll say it instead

The American people are a bunch of dumbshits.

[Cherchez la Femme]

47. Yes, we non-regular people are never 'out in the real world'

everywhere we go and everyone we know are also so very 1337 just like us!

Wow, your powers of perceptions are really something

...else.

[rucky]

8. x% Americans like pepperoni pizza. y% prefer sausage

z% prefer mushroom, etc.

Can we then conclude that everybody's happy if we order a Supreme?

[jaxx]

9. Unemployment extensions and tax perks help the people and the economy.

Glad to see this gaining support, and I look for it to grow more. It's not like the tax cuts for the rich are a new thing, they've been there for 10 years...2 more is a small price to pay for the 2 million+ who will immediately benefit.

[polmaven]

13. + 1 gazillion

Absolutely correct!

[droidamus2]

16. If you believe

That it is going to be 'just' 2 years your dreaming. In 2 years the Republicans and their media minions will trot out the same spin and propaganda they did this time and get it extended again. Actually the Repubs stated purpose is to make these tax breaks permanent and in the end lower the rates even further in order to starve the government of money. The Republicans figured out in the 70's that if they had to debate social programs based on the idea of 'should we help people in need and make sure all American's have food and shelter' they lost every time. So they came up with the idea that if the government didn't have any money the argument changed from 'should we' to 'can we' and then all they had to say, in their most compassionate conservative voice, is 'we feel their pain but unfortunately we don't have the money'. Of course, they also realized that if you demonize all those people that could use a little societal based help it made it all so much more easier to sell to the brain dead public.

[jaxx]

18. I'm not dreaming but it appears that you are projecting.

Playing "what if" isn't productive. And I don't know how a pub thinks, I've never been one.

[droidamus2]

20. If you don't know how Republicans think

You haven't been listening. I have heard any number of Republicans including their current leaders in the House and Senate state that they want to lower the rates for the upper incomes even lower. Hell they have been screaming to lower and lower and lower the upper tax rates since the Reagan era. As far as the 'what if' in the political game if you don't try to look down the road and determine what the effects will be or what your opposition might do at a later time you will get screwed more often than not. Also, the Republicans sold the original deal as a short term drop in tax rates. Basically, they said that if the Democrats would pass the bill they would agree to make it for a limited time span, in this case ending in 2010, and they have now totally backed out of that position by pushing for 'just 2 more years'. My questions 'why should we believe them when they didn't stand behind the original deal'. Yes, the Democrats didn't stand behind their part of the deal either as far as the <250000 tax breaks. Maybe they should just let all the tax breaks lapse as per the original deal and then argue out what kind of break and who should get it after the fact.

[CakeGrrl]

25. "After the fact" means that in the meantime, the unemployed and poor are DEFINITELY screwed

This is the myopia that has taken over a strangely large segment of DU.

Some people cannot seem to visualize what "let the tax cuts expire" actually means to people.

It means taking no legislative action.

That means unemployment extensions EXPIRE AT THE END OF DECEMBER. THAT IS LESS THAN THREE WEEKS FROM NOW.

You must not be receiving one of those checks and using it for rent or food. Because those who do will have NOTHING after that and THEY are damn sure going to notice even if you don't.

That means that nice tax return that the middle class received last year is GONE when they do their taxes this year. That return is often a nice financial bump to those people.

And just who do you think they'll blame?

Not the President, like some here do and hope others will also do.

They'll blame the people who blocked the deal: Democrats in Congress.

Never mind who caused this mess in the first place (Republicans).

[droidamus2]

26. Just for your info

Yes your right I am not receiving any of those checks because the few part time temp jobs I have been able to find in my area don't make me eligible. In the mean time the bank is threatening to foreclose on my home and the credit card companies are driving me nuts (yes you are correct I should have never gotten involved with the credit companies in the first place) and it looks like there is a bankruptcy in my future. So a 3% rise in my taxes would have a definite negative effect on me. My problem is those that control the money in this country are always going to be able to keep the labor force in fear while they load up their pockets with money earned by our hard labor. To me the only way to wrest some of their power back to a more equitable level is to not only let their tax break lapse but to raise their taxes on an escalating scale as it was done in the 50's and 60's. Money is power in this country if you don't control the accumulation of money in fewer and fewer hands you essentially lose any facade of democracy. Just like the people, like my grandfather who was a railroad man in the 1930's, who created the unions in this country some time you suffer a little in the short term to make bigger gains in the future. On the political side if the Democrats and for that matter the Independents don't find a way to break the Republicans and move them off their our way our no way position nothing is ever going to get done in this country that doesn't help the wealthy and hurt the rest of us. So if I have to accept a little pain now for a lot less pain in the future I think it is a small price to pay.

[CakeGrrl]

44. Sorry about your situation; I'm unemployed right now too

But the problem is that at this specific moment in time, the Republicans aren't going to BE broken - not by a sense of fairness or a need to do the right thing, nor with the shift of power coming in the House, nor with the Senate filibuster available and the Republicans having no compunction about using it.

[Cherchez la Femme]

49. Really?

How many Dem's approve of the Trickle-Down Theory?

[Cherchez la Femme]

48. Yay! Trickle-Down!

You must love Raygun too!!!

aren't you..... special.

[TheKentuckian]

52. How is having to buy something more expensive than what you want costs a bargain?

You have a strange definition of "a small price to pay" or even a fair price.

[Webster Green]

17. The tax cuts for the very wealthy will NOT be temporary.

The majority of US citizens are fucking brainwashed morons.

Joe six-pack, Joe four-pack, and Joe brew-his-own are all fucked in the end. If they can beg a beer from some rich fuck, they'll be drinking it under a bridge.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. President Obama Begged The Dems To Vote On A Middle Class Tax Cut Bill And They Were Scared

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=559655&mesg_id=559655

And we all know majorities can be wrong but in a democrary where folks can vote you do so at your peril. Even the Bush* you cited as a negative example said it would be easier to govern if he was a "dick tater".

[joeprogressive]

22. Agreed but this president failed to lead and support congress and

completely abandoned the idea of using the bully pulpit to sell either real health care reform or a good tax cut plan. This effectively let the conservatives control the message and therefore sway enough dumb Americans on both issues to create mojority support.

[hulka38]

23. Indies have no clue. n/t

[mikekohr]

31. Even if true, independants remain critical to the Democrat Party, don't deny reality.

Conservatives Maintain Edge as Top Ideological Group Compared with 2008, more Americans "conservative" in general, and on issues

by Lydia Saad PRINCETON, NJ -- Conservatives continue to outnumber moderates and liberals in the American populace in 2009, confirming a finding that Gallup first noted in June. Forty percent of Americans describe their political views as conservative, 36% as moderate, and 20% as liberal. This marks a shift from 2005 through 2008, when moderates were tied with conservatives as the most prevalent group.
read full article:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/Conservatives-Maintai...


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You don't have to be smart to succeed in politics, but you have to be able to count." -Robert F. Kennedy-

[hulka38]

36. It's true.

I've never denied the necessity of the indie vote. The poll numbers you reference are a direct result of this party not advocating the correct positions, which are liberal. Indies listen to the strongest voice. Lately, the only voice they've heard has been conservative. They were fully behind the Iraq War for a ridiculously long time because one voice dominated and that weaker voice was portrayed as shrill and dangerous even by its own party. The Republican meme about the financial crises being caused primarily by irresponsible home buyers and the govt wanting homes for everyone is treated as a plausible argument for the same reason. What indies are hearing now is that tax cuts for the wealthy will help get us out of the recession. Maybe Obama doesn't fully agree with this but that is the message indies will hear. The solution to this is to speak the truth clearly, more often and louder than the other guy and welcome the hatred that it brings.

[mikekohr]

57. "Americans will pick wrong and strong, over right and weak every time."

These words of Bill Clinton sum up best this point, on which you and I are in complete agreement.

[Cherchez la Femme]

50. In the same respect, they are critical to the Republican

Party -- THAT'S also reality.

i.e. no difference, just depending how the latest spin, and who's spin, is accepted...


As for Truth? Fuggit!

[mikekohr]

58. And in that lies the secret to who controls the White House and the nation

The Republican base is monolithic, motivated and disciplined. Our base is diverse, less disciplined and less engaged.

We as a party are more concerned with results, they with ideology. Mindless anger, and empty platitudes are easier to produce than are actual accomplishments.

They have to carve off a much smaller slice of the "swing voters," than do we, because in spite of the fact that Democrats outnumber Republicans they turn out in higher percentages than do we. They out hustle and outwork us. Over and over.

[bluethruandthru]

27. I'll bet the majority of Americans don't realize that the "payroll tax holiday" is the first step

toward dismantling social security.

The issue of Social Security hasn't been defined and hammered home by the Democrats...but they need to get on it ASAP. I'll bet a good majority of people don't know that republicans would like to get rid of it all together and have been looking for ways to do it for years. They also don't realize that it has not contributed to the budget deficit and that it's solvent for the next 75 years...and could be for much, much longer if the income limit was removed.

[mikekohr]

33. The lost revenue from the "holiday" will be replaced from the General Fund

There will be a net change in SS funds of $0.00 All of this cut will be to poor, and middle class workers. Because of the income limit upper income workers will not enjoy any reduction on the percentage of their income that falls above that limit.
And the President has advocated an elimination of the income limit in the future to help stabilize SS and reduce the debt.

[bluethruandthru]

35. And when the time comes to replace the funds - the republicans and probably the president

will say that unfortunately, we just can't afford to replace the funds for social security! It will be positioned as adding to the deficit.

[mikekohr]

59. President Obama Has Advocated For Removing the Income Ceiling On Social Security

which will dramatically increase the fiscal solvency of SS. And let us not lose sight of the fact that after President Bill Clinton ended the recession he inherited from G.H.W. Bush he went on to balance 5 budgets which added decades to the fiscal solvency of SS.
see: http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/national-debt.html

This is the same path President Obama wishes to take. He however inherited a far, far deeper recession and far larger structural deficits than did Wild Bill. If we want to avoid the pain of climbing out of economic holes we have to quit electing the jackasses that dig the holes; namely Republicans.

It is not by chance that 9 of the last 10 recession have occurred under the inept economic policies and leadership of the Republican Party.
see:http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/history-of-recessions.html

[mtnsnake]

30. If the majority of Americans understood why taxes are necessary we'd never lose another election

The only thing the majority of Americans understand is when the pundits tell them that their taxes will go down. Most of them don't even realize that taxes are necessary to fill potholes.

[mikekohr]

34. As an Elected Local Official, you have hit the nail on the head.

People want, demand services, but will not support any increase in taxes. A few years ago a man came to our annual township meeting demanding that the 1.5 mile stretch of gravel road he choose to build his house on be paved. I showed him the financial statements of the township and pointed out if we paved his road we would exhaust the working fund for an entire year. He said, "This is all you have?" "That's it," I replied. He stood up and walked out.

[Cherchez la Femme]

51. That's very true

And it's the fault of the Democratic Party for not educating the public at every opportunity
instead of either running and hiding or apeing the Republican 'drown it in a bathtub' insane spin!

[whosinpower]

32. Taken as a whole - Americans overwhelmingly supported

Single payer health care....or at least a public option.

That was never even at the table. Even CBO estimates proved that single payer or a public option would decrease health care costs across the board.....it was NOT EVEN ALLOWED AT THE TABLE.

Peddle this snakeskin oil somewhere else. The big gaping hole in the deficit this will cause will be a major campaigning talking point next year. It is irresponsible, abhorrent, disgusting that the wealthy would demand that America borrow money from the chinese to give them money they don't need, do not spend to stimulate the American economy. It is extortion money - that America does not even have to give. It HAS TO FUCKING BORROW IT.

[Cherchez la Femme]

53. And let's not forget big Pharma and

the Medicare donut hole!
The latest courtesy of our Democratic President...

[lonestarnot]

37. I do not believe this bullshit.

:grr:

[libmom74]

38. I think

if it was explained to people where the money to pay for the cuts was coming from (China, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates) people would overwhelming oppose all of the tax cuts.

[niceypoo]

39. LOL

Yeah, Americans just love more supply side.

[kentuck]

40. Yeah , and we got a poll to prove it...

My oh my...

[apocalypsehow]

42. You are correct. Facts can be such painful things for some to face.... Rec. n/t.

[kentuck]

43. Now we are willing to destroy the country and the Democratic Party...

with the results of a poll?

[Cherchez la Femme]

54. but, but, but

they're saying the White House is at fault!

So what about the suffering of not only this generation but at least the next? Don't these ultra-leftists understand that one man is 'under attack'??!

This cannot stand!!11!1!oneoneone