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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 04:58 PM
Original message
Salon: The liberal backlash that isn't
As one prominent liberal after another cried "betrayal!" over President Obama's tax cut deal last week, I cautioned against reading too much into it: One of the most underappreciated stories of Obama's tenure has been the consistent disconnect between elite liberal opinion about the president and the view of rank-and-file liberals.

That point is more evident than ever today, with the release of a new Washington Post/ABC News poll -- conducted late last week and over the weekend, as the supposed liberal backlash against the deal was at its peak -- that shows Obama's approval rating with liberal Democrats sitting at 87 percent. That's essentially where it's been all year; it represents a statistically microscopic decline from where he stood with liberal Democrats in the last WaPo/ABC survey, taken about six weeks ago. Among all Democrats, Obama's approval rating in the new survey sits at 79 percent -- again, pretty much exactly where it's been all year. As has been the case throughout his presidency, Obama's problem among Democrats -- to the extent he has one at all -- is with self-described moderates and conservatives in the party.

Of course, it's true that earlier this week a Marist poll seemed to show clear erosion in Obama's Democratic support -- with the president's approval rating among Democrats slipping to 74 percent, down from 83 percent in a Marist poll taken last month. Marist also pegged Obama's approval rating among liberals at just 69 percent. Not surprisingly, these numbers were quickly touted by the liberals who have been railing the loudest against Obama as proof that -- finally -- their objections were resonating with the party base. They also allowed some commentators to revive the ridiculous, discredited, but fun to imagine idea that Obama will receive a serious primary challenge in 2012.

But the Marist numbers should probably be taken with a grain of salt. True, the 74 percent approval rating among Democrats is surprisingly low. But polls have shown volatility in this number all year. In Gallup's weekly survey, Obama's approval rating with his fellow Democrats has fluctuated between 76 and 86 percent this year (it's currently at 80 percent). And when you look closely, it's hard to peg the spikes and dips to specific events and developments (and even when it is possible to do so, the bump or spike invariably flattens out). And the 69 percent number among liberals seems to be among all self-described liberals -- not just liberals who also identify as Democrats. The distinction is important, since polls have shown Obama faring much better with liberal Democrats than with all liberals; the latest Gallup poll has Obama's approval at 79 percent among liberal Democrats and just 69 percent among all liberals.

The rest of the article is here....http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/12/15/obama_liberal_backlash

Come on KO and DUers your work is not done....
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. "disconnect between elite liberal opinion ... and the view of rank-and-file liberals"...
+1.

Sid
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. I guess the question is: will those discarded "rank-and-file liberals" show up to work/volunteer
... in the next election(s)?

:shrug:
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Precisely
and I suspect that many of them will not do so.
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RichGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. Then you would be wrong.
Edited on Wed Dec-15-10 09:10 PM by RichGirl
Reasonable, mature liberals know that NO president is ever going to give them everything they want. The immature, unreasonable liberals who thought that Obama was given a magic wand at Inauguration will get their heads out of the clouds, grow up and work harder than they did in 2008.

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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
38. We will see
But in 2008 I voted for a Democrat to be President. It looks more and more like I got a Republican. Despite your snark, I am a reasonable and mature (56 year old) progressive and I understand that there was going to be no pony involved for liberals, my problem is that it appears it was given away to the Republicans without much real attempt at even a basic discussion. I have seen what the last 30 years of trickle down BS have done to the working class of this nation and I am frankly well beyond disgusted.

I held my nose and voted a straight Dem ticket in 2010 despite the thoughts of our Senatorial Candidate Carnahan that the tax cuts for the rich should be extended.

I will vote in 2012, but it will be on local and state issues and perhaps a candidate or two who seems to be worthy of my vote.

Any meager donations that I can offer will go to the likes of Bernie Sanders, DK and other Progressives.

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Kweli4Real Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. Maybe I mis-read the article, but ...
Edited on Wed Dec-15-10 09:46 PM by Kweli4Real
I got the distinct impression the "rank and file liberals" are not the one's feeling discarded.

I other words, the "rank and file", i.e., the Democratic base are not the one's running around bashing PRESIDENT Obama, while calling themselves the Democratic base ... Those (the rank and file) would be those that make up PRESIDENT Obama's favorability numbers.

But what do I know?:shrug:
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. +1
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't read too much into it
Since this has been going on for 2 years now I get tired of the "sky is falling" scare tactics.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. its never too late to primary him
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Larouche\Greenwald 2012!!11!11!!!eleventy
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. re read the article, I think you missed the point
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. "Come on KO and DUers your work is not done...."
Really? That is your brilliant insight into this bogus poll?

Cheers!

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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. In My Best Rodney King Voice
"Can't we all just get along."
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. bogus poll? Obama Job Approval Among Liberal Democrats 79%. Dec 6-12, 2010 Gallup
Dec 6-12, 2010

Obama Job Approval:

Democrat total 80%

Liberal Democrat 79%
Moderate Democrat 77%
Conservative Democrat 67%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Yes. Bullshit poll.
In case you hadn't noticed, those who are MOST upset with Obama are the liberal democrats, while the 'rally round the pres' are the DLC moderates and conservatives, both of whom rank lower on the poll than lib dems.

Even the WH and the dem PTB admit they are losing the 'professional left' - you know, the fucking retards - yet gallup claims they are the strongest supporters.

Have YOU seen where gallup gets its numbers? How do YOU know they aren't just making shit up to spin the conversation in a direction they want?

This is a bullshit poll that, at best, is based on self-identified labels. How about polls about the issues? There are plent of people on this very board who call themselves 'progressive' who, when posting on the issues, reveal themselves to be about as progressive a Goldwater. ANYBODY can call himself a 'liberal Democrat' - but in truth a liberal democrat does not support the dissolution of the unions, the on-going military adventuring, the slanting of the tax code toward the wealthiest 5%, the privitzation of SS, the privitization of the public school system. You not, ALL of these positions are supported by Obama.

Gallup has not been a non-partisan pollster in over 10 years, before W came to power. They will always spin to the right, or to the destriment of the left.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. "the professional left" = people that get paid to give their opinions
I think you are confused about what that term means. Professional Left = paid opinion makers. Ex high profile bloggers like Jane Hamsher. Show hosts like Ed Schultz.

Most democrats are not professional left. I know for sure I don't make a living by expressing my opinions.

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I put 'profession left' in quotes for a reason -
it is a bullshit meme itself. If Hamsher is 'professionial left' does that make Gibbs 'professional right/centrist'? The only reason they use the term 'professional left' is to give the impression that because they have a media voice that their left views are somehow less legitimate than their own - despite their own media voices. Like "they wouldn't be saying these things if they weren't being paid for it".

Well I hold the same fucking views, and I don't get paid for it either. How do you demean MY views - call me the 'amateur left'?

I am anything BUT confused at the intent of that pissant piece of propaganda from the Democratic right.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. "amateur left" LOL that's good. There is some kind of beltway madness
amateurs do get the short end of the stick.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. I thought we were suppose to 'beware'.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x15980

It's either threats or condescending dismissiveness. I can't keep up. :shrug:
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I can't either
We're either an irrelevant fringe group OR we're an omnipotent force capable of bringing the Presidency and the party down with our incessant pony demanding.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. OK. Since you're an irrelevant fringe group, quit claiming to be the base.
Quit demanding that the Democrats owe you for all your hard work.

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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. OK. And you guys stop blaming us for Dem losses.
If we're irrelevant we can't cause Democrats to lose, can we?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. The disconnect is astounding, isn't it. nt
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. LOL depends on how many voters you can convince to sit home.
Edited on Wed Dec-15-10 09:54 PM by emulatorloo
<JOKE>

DU is getting pretty dysfunctional, I really wish we weren't at each others throats all the time. Accusing each other of some kind of shit or another. I guess I am naive, i believe most of us have the same values but differences over strategies. Or something. Oh well I am tired of the stress of the name calling.

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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. No worries since in a couple of months we'll be a LOT more united.
The GOP is about to take over the House.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. No kidding. I've been trying to repress that . . .
:toast:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. "Come on KO and DUers your work is not done...."
how true

:rofl:
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. Kick, Rec. n/t.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. It was mostly hot air to begin with - most "liberals" actually support the bill, nearly
90% according to a poll last week.

mark
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. I'm glad to see you put quotes around "liberals"
because the liberals I know do NOT support the tax cuts for the rich and the unfunding of SS - despite what the "liberals" may say.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. Perhaps they might want to extend their reading/information sources
beyond the whiners who think they represent the "true left".


mark
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
19. +1000. Thanks Dennis.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. Hard to answer the pollsters phone calls when you're arguing on DU. :-) nt
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Plus just because somebody is loud doesn't mean they represent the majority
Edited on Wed Dec-15-10 09:03 PM by emulatorloo
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. 'xactly nt
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pmorlan1 Donating Member (763 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. Coordinated Posts today?
LOL...we sure have a lot of the same type of posts today. LOL
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
30. I'm no elite and I feel sold out
Sometimes this seems like the Fox News Forum

so now everyone who disagrees is a member of the liberal elite, eh?

Paging Sean Hannity!
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
36. lol Delicious
polls have shown Obama faring much better with liberal Democrats than with all liberals

No. Sh*t. :eyes:

Rec'd.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
37. But, not doubt Salon will trumpet the 2012 'enthusiasm' gap when it happens
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That Guy 888 Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
39. Polls are useless without knowing the lead-in questions
I'm not saying that the poll is absolutely wrong, I just question every poll out of force of habit, especially when they require high levels of information in low-information America.



Plus I do think of this Brit-com scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yhN1IDLQjo
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
41. The article ignores the simple fact that the number of "liberal Democrats" is itself declining
because of Obama.

I'm a liberal.

I USED TO BE a liberal democrat.

Now, I'm not sure.
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
42. DU Liberals, myself included, comprise of a very tiny minority of the Democratic Party
population. Very tiny!
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
44. All these polls showing Obama's support is high screams "Protest too much" to me.
when the polls show support is slipping, there are 1001 excuses from apologists why that poll is rigged and wrong.

When a poll shows support is strong or gaining, it's the real deal.

:eyes:
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