For those who are pissing & moaning about how relentlessly the Left is criticizing President Obama

[mtnsnake]

Did you ever stop to think that if those liberals or "lefties" or "purists" ever stopped ranting and raving, THERE WOULD BE NO PROGRESSIVE LEGISLATION....ever?

[Clio the Leo]

1. Considering the apparent fact that the "Caver in Chief" was the one who kept pushing....

.... the health bill even when some on the left deemed it a failure, no, sorry. Not buyin' it.

Sure, we need progressive legislation ... but what we need MORE than progressive legislation is progressive legislation .... that we can PASS.

[Exilednight]

9. What exactly has HCR accomplished? Let's look at how well it has worked so far ...........

2010 Family Health Premiums Rise 3 Percent to $13,770 in 2010, But Workers' Share Jumps 14 Percent as Firms Shift Cost Burden.

The number of people with health insurance decreased to 253.6 million in 2009 from 255.1 million in 2008. This is the first year that the number of people with health insurance has decreased since 1987, the first year that comparable health insurance data were collected.

he number of people without health insurance rose sharply last year to 50.7 million — an all time high — according to data released Thursday by the Census Bureau.

[Clio the Leo]

11. No one promised things we be fixed overnight. See me in five years. nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. But no one promised that the situation would get worse

I was forced to drop my insurance due to a 26% rise in premiums. I know that's not the fault of HCR, but that's what we get for giving presents to the private sector. They're profiteering while they can, and there's nothing in the legislation to prevent it.

[Sheepshank]

54. please show where it wouldn't have risen 26% without HCR.

The insurance companies are gouging while they can.

[displacedvermoter]

62. So they can keep gouging until at least 2014, and that is a good

thing?

[Sheepshank]

73. Where did anyone say it was a good thing?

duh...but placing the blame where it belongs is generally a good thing rather that projecting a hate message in any and every other direction..duh!

[Exilednight]

64. They wouldn't have risen 26% if HCR addressed the core issue, which is

the rising cost of health care. There's nothing in the bill that actually stops insurance companies from gouging people this year, next year, the year after that or ten years down the road.

Sure, it makes insurance more available, but only if you can afford it.

[ProudDad]

30. Would have been if HR676 ...

Which the majority of USAmericans supported...

Had been passed...

Last I heard, we're supposed to have "representative government"...

Not government by the lackeys of the Ruling Class...

[COLGATE4]

49. You mean when President Romney finishes off Social Security?

[Exilednight]

65. If he does, it;s only because President Obama gave him the framework in which to do it. n/t

[Smashcut]

60. He kept pushing for a bill that lines private insurers' pockets

with premiums for policies on millions of new customers most of whom won't actually get CARE for their $$$$.

That bill WAS a failure to anyone who cared about actual reform and not just checking an item off the list. I'm glad the courts have struck down the mandate as most people who are uninsured can't afford to be cash cows for the multi-billion-dollar scam known as the health insurance industry in this country.

[ProSense]

2. I don't know

"Kill the bill" would also mean "THERE WOULD BE NO PROGRESSIVE LEGISLATION....ever"

Fighting and losing versus fighting and winning is the difference 1994 and 2010.

[Name removed]

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[displacedvermoter]

63. Winning what?

[tridim]

3. Nearly all of Obama's passed legislation is progressive by definition.

So, what you said is complete baloney.

[mtnsnake]

4. Any progressive legislation he passed is directly proportional to the outcries of his base

that he used to relate to, so it is not baloney. sorry.

[catgirl]

8. Huh?

That is over the top.

[Name removed]

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[Clio the Leo]

12. also in his base ------>

<---- or here, depending on what the reader is looking at.

[Whisp]

75. but I thought Obama only listened to corporations and pissed on the left?

first he ignores 'progressives', now it's the 'progressives' victories.

which is it?

[villager]

5. all progress, according to them, comes from capitulation to Republicans

n/t

[Clio the Leo]

13. And North capitulated to the South to from the Union....

.... or should we have not done that either?

[villager]

17. actually, it was bad compromises that *led* to the Civil War...

n/t

[Clio the Leo]

21. So the nation could have been formed without the 3/5ths compromise?

Break that one down for me.

[villager]

61. actually, it was the refusal to stand up to rightwing racists:

by appeasing them, we got civil war:

http://history-world.org/compromise_of_1850.htm

[treestar]

67. So if they'd just held out, the South would have released their slaves

and joined the union?

Where do people get this idea? Has it worked for them in some personal battle? Was it a stare contest?

[vaberella]

36. If you had any understanding of history---you'd see Progress has been made by BOTH parties.

Most of the time working together.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. Give me your top five bits of Progress from the GOP post

Lincoln. You make a claim in favor of Republicans as agents of progress, please show us your favorite Republican actions. Prove your point. Because I contest your point.

[Uzybone]

6. of course, without the bloggers there'd be no legislation

oh thank you FDL and Cenk for providing that 13 month UE extension, getting $20 billion from BP, the stimulus bill among all the other blessings. Without your bellyaching we would be 1934 Italy by now.

Give me a break.

[ProSense]

7. .

:rofl:

[mtnsnake]

14. Why are you laughing? It's the Left who hits the streets, protests, criticizes, gets things done

When you stop and think about it, the Left is the catalyst to all progressive change. They are the roots, like it or not.

[ProSense]

16. "It's the Left who hits the streets, protests, criticizes, gets things done"

It's the left (unions and other groups) who got health care reform passed.

[ProudDad]

32. What's left of the "union movement"

is a shell...

The appeasers passed that piece of shit, NOT the 'left'...

Nice try, though... :eyes:

[Hello_Kitty]

57. And just who do you think "unions and other groups" are?

Sensible moderates? I've yet to see one get active.

[Clio the Leo]

15. lol, nah, Crazy Eddie was responsible for the BP "shake down" ... DUR!

:fistbump:

[TheKentuckian]

18. Who was responsible for BP taking control of the Coast Guard, EPA, and direction over the press?

That is the "shakedown" I'm worried about.

[Clio the Leo]

22. This is for show I guess?

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6BE59J20101215

[ProudDad]

33. Shit...one corporation suing another...

:eyes:

[vaberella]

38. It boggles my mind----no understanding. n/t

[treestar]

68. Exactly, do they take credit for all that?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[treestar]

19. No, they kill progress

They create a situation where Republicans win.

They are either actually Republicans or dupes to the extent they let the Republicans control them. And let the Republicans win.

[Union Scribe]

29. "they let Republicans control them"

Enough about the Dem leadership, this thread is about the left.

[ProudDad]

34. +1000

:rofl:

Zingo!

[chill_wind]

43. +5000

[BrklynLiberal]

20. +1000

[Occam Bandage]

23. You're right. It was bloggers who passed all the legislation of the past two years.

Congress and the President haven't done shit by comparison.

[quickesst]

24. I get kind of tired.....

....of the left giving the right great ideas for campaign ads. Let's hope they're not watching. Thanks.
quickesst

[CakeGrrl]

25. Sorry, but "Capitulator-In-Chief", "Caver", "Small and Pathetic", "Weak", "Wimp"

are not words used by people who are there to offer constructive advice. Not everyone is to be thanked for their "contributions".

[Bluerthanblue]

26. so very well said-

:hug:

[Name removed]

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[vaberella]

40. I heard he was always a Bush----"Change You CAN'T Believe In..."

Is a very popular catch-phrase here.

[ProudDad]

42. Well, there's a reason they're known as

the two right-wings of the Corporate War Party...

[vaberella]

44. Uh huh...by idiots. ^_^ I definitely don't subscribe to the idea Obama is a corporatist. n/t

[Name removed]

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[vaberella]

39. Ain't that the truth. n/t

[uponit7771]

50. VERY well said, their criticism isn't very..............progressive

[OhioBlue]

27. you make a good point

I truly believe that each of us has our place in the Progressive movement - be it the "loud left", the "purist left", the "ultra liberals", the "pragmatic Dems", the "professional left", etc.

I agree with you that we need people to the left of Obama to keep pushing, discussing, debating, etc. Absolutely.

However.... I think it becomes counterproductive when the name calling, dismissive attacks, unrealistic positions, etc. come into play. I think we can push the President and elected officials with more progressive opinions, demonstrations, etc. without demonizing them and acting like they are the enemy. Sometimes, we have to at least try to understand the environment within which they are working, and be realistic about what they can achieve.

[vaberella]

35. But...uh...for you guys. There NEVER has been progressive legislation by this administration.

And if the nation is roughly 20% progressive, you're voice is rather a minority. Theodore Roosevelt, was NOT a leftist, however he put forth massively progressive legislation. Eisenhower is another one who's done the same but who's a Republican. Let's be clear---Progressive legislation is not produced or pushed by ONLY the left. It's when your voices are joined by the Center and the Right are there PROGRESSIVE LEGISLATION.

[ProudDad]

41. It's only when things get SO bad

so shitty...

So near final collapse...

That the minions of the Ruling Class co-opt tiny pieces of the Progressive agenda...

In order to save the majority of the Status Quo...

Let's be clear about motivation...

Those you mention enacted tiny slivers of Progressive thought in order to save their asses...

In addition, if the USAmerican public is asked the questions about whether they support Progressive values and policies, about 80% would answer in the affirmative...

But USAmerica does not have nor has EVER HAD a truly representative government...nothing approaching a democracy...

[mtnsnake]

45. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that

progressive legislation, whether it's during this administration or any previous administration, is directly related to the outcries of the Left to get progressive legislation passed.

As far as any questions for this administration:

Does this administration listen to the Left on the MAJOR progressive issues as much as it should be listening to them?

Does Obama owe it to the Left to fight for them a little harder than he has on those major progressive issues? Would he be President right now if it wasn't for the Left that practically carried him through the Primaries on their shoulders?

[vaberella]

59. No, I would disagree with this point.

As I stated in other threads...Theodore Roosevelt was a republican, but he pushed majorly progressive initiatives and that's because of a book that wasn't even really pushing any sort of meme--but had the topic as a side topic. I think you're giving the left more credit than they deserve. When it came to widow's fund which was the precursor of medicare---I don't think there was even a real distinct left and right. And I'd have to say most of the widows who received funding probably came from what we would call the "right" today.

Be clear with your statements. I do believe that socially progressive ideologies are forefronts for the left---however it's not limited to them and many on the right have some progressive views. I knew a Libertarian who would make some on the left look tame.

[mtnsnake]

69. No problem, and your points are well taken

I do believe that socially progressive ideologies are forefronts for the left---however it's not limited to them and many on the right have some progressive views.

Well said. My post does make it sound like I'm giving exclusive bragging rights to the Left as far as being responsible for all progressive legislation. Maybe I should have said "there would be almost no progressive legislation" instead of "there would be no progressive legislation." Just the same, I stand by my belief that if it wasn't for the rantings and persistence of the Left, then we wouldn't get to experience nearly the same amount of progressive legislation that we enjoy today. I think the Left deserves more credit when it comes to that than any other ideological group.

Theodore Roosevelt was a republican, but he pushed majorly progressive initiatives and that's because of a book that wasn't even really pushing any sort of meme--but had the topic as a side topic.

Yup, he was a Republican. If he was alive today, I am almost certain he would hate Republicans because of their horrible performance when it comes to the environment. Teddy Roosevelt just happens to be my favorite president. That's because the most important things to me, politically, are the environment, wildlife, and conservation of them. As far as past presidents go, I feel that Teddy Roosevelt was the finest steward of the environment that this country has ever seen.

Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

[vaberella]

72. Yeah....Teddy is my man...for all of the above and the fact he was a New Yorker!!! n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

47. Who is 'you guys'? Yesterday you posted that you are a

Progressive. Today, you state that 'you progressives' are a minority. Buttering that toast on both sides, you are going to get greasy fingers. When you address an individual as 'you guys' you need to clarify. Yesterday, you were a Progressive, today, Progressives are 'you guys'.
I stand with the underdogs, kiddo. I stand with my own community. The President says we are not 'sanctified' enough for his taste, whatever the fuck that nonsense means. Sanctified, as a legal term? Whatever it takes to sell that soap. to prevent equality for all. Such a noble goal to have, really, preventing others from pursuing happiness.

[vaberella]

58. What are you talking about? You didn't read the title of the this thread---LEFT.

I said I was not of the left, but I am a progressive. Progressives is a huge umbrella and distinct from the Left. Since the left is more so an ideology. In any event, I did :rofl: when you attempted to put me in my place. I make distinct and clear differences. The thread said Left and I responded to the people who claim they are of the "left". You seem to be confusing the two points, which I made clear in several of my posts can be mutually exclusive.

[Pisces]

48. Pissing and moaning is one thing, tearing down with rude, teaparty comments is different.

The obscene language, and racist dogwhistles are what most are complaining about. Dissent, disagreement, and complaints is not what is so offensive. The vitriol, and hate that you can find
on Free Republic is what most disdain.

[uponit7771]

51. AMEN!!!! If we wanted misguided and sophisty we'd go to hannity.com et al

[impik]

52. I could not care less about your "criticism", because it has nothing to do with reality.

It's a waste of energy to be pissed at you.

[Sheepshank]

53. Did you ever stop to think

how it all plays to the RW talking meme? That you think that progress is only made via pissing and moaning is incorrect and patently false. All the pissing and moaning on these bb's does nothing byut affect voter apathy and discontent. You want to acheive something? Pissing and moaning on a bb is not it.

[Aramchek]

55. look who's pissing and moaning...

[treestar]

66. No, because that is not true

There would be even more of it if the left has even a little bit of discipline and was capable of the slightest give and take.

The left here would have been against the New Deal since it did not go far enough.

In fact, you are showing a belief that negative energy is the only thing that works. Sort of like the stereotypical view of the military, where it is assumed you will be lazy until the sergeant taunts you and calls you names.

[Name removed]

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[TheKentuckian]

76. Nope, mine are the economic structure, energy policy, and infrastructure investment.

Along with civil liberties.

My fight is with the power structure and those who profit from it.

I congratulate Leadership, the President, and even the weasel Lieberman on DADT.

I now expect the President to stop enforcing this bullshit and stop loss anyone that gets caught up in the transition.

[Name removed]

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