Sen. Manchin D-WV, fears commercials about him voting for/against DADT/DREAM Acts --turns tail...

[CreekDog]

cleverly avoiding being nailed with those votes.

without that to worry about, i guess he can focus on how to respond when they call him a baby killer who runs over kittens in his spare time. :sarcasm:

without the help of his base.

(sometimes I don't think these guys can think at all) :banghead:

[Thrill]

1. He's a coward

That's why I call him Jon Breaux jr.

He's made it clear he plans to be a big wimp in the Senate. One of those guys that wait until the votes are almost counted on everything and then he votes.

[tularetom]

2. I fear he'll be a huge disappointment to real Democrats

He's a stooge for the resource extraction interests in his state.

[xxqqqzme]

20. When I lived in West Virginia, he was

beginning his climb up the political ladder in the statehouse. He has been owned by coal since he stepped on the first rung.

[Arkana]

3. What a fucking coward.

But, seeing as how it was a choice between him and Raese (who was immeasurably worse)...

[Odin2005]

4. Appalachia is the most socially backward place in America. YUCK

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. Regardless, it is his job to represent the voters of WV

[CreekDog]

14. there are no gays there?

Its okay to vote against equal rights because some of your voters want you to?

[Freddie Stubbs]

21. He needs to take a stand one way or the other

There are many factors he can take into account when casting his vote, but the bottom line is that it is his job to show up and cast votes.

[harun]

12. Appalachia up in PA is the same way. Might as well be in Alabama.

[11 Bravo]

5. And he was such a macho, gun-toting, stud in his TV ads.

Who would have guessed?

[BeyondGeography]

6. Senator Girlchin puts the Mountain Momma in West Virginia

At the risk of being offensive (ok, ok...).

[WI_DEM]

7. Now he's apologizing for having missed these votes because he was caught at

a Christmas party instead of doing his job.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

8. Wait, the tough guy with the shotgun? I'm shocked! nt

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tomm2thumbs]

11. they'll just show him sitting by with a firehose as a house burns down, trimming his fingernails

much more effective anyway

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. I'll pass judgement when his individual vote really counts...

...and that vote is a tough one to sell to WV voters. It is going to happen with some frequency in the next Congress. We needed him to keep the WV seat in Democratic hands. He was a vote for keeping a Democratic majority, and if it weren't for Palin, electing him might have been the only thing holding back Republican control of the Senate.

There is a political tradition called "giving political cover" whereby politicians who can be hurt bad at home by voting with the Party can get a pass on that vote if it isn't actually needed to win. Manchin won't be a Progressive on most issues, but he may not be among the worst. The jury is still out.

[CreekDog]

15. he voted against gays before... why defend him?

he also said he would have voted against them here.

I'm really disappointed that for you political expediency makes it okay to kick gays around. if I recall I meet you a while back here in the bay area and took you for someone far more progressive.

And we haven't even discussed the dream act yet.

[Tom Rinaldo]

16. That's a stretch of an accusation

Actually I'm glad he chose not to vote rather than vote against it. If he was a member of the Democratic leadership, I would expect him to shoulder more of the weight of carrying the correct Democratic message.

Profiles in Courage was about people who voted their principles at the cost of their career WHEN their vote was crucial to how a matter was decided.

The fact that we are talking about the Democratic Party and mainstream politics by definition means we are not dealing in the realm of of true radical progressive politics, we are dealing with pragmatic politics by definition.

If he was a Senator from New York I would support a primary challange to him. If he were an active gay baiter I would also. But it is important for Democrats to control the Senate and this guy may end up being half way decent on working class and economic issues. That's what I am waiting to see.

[CreekDog]

17. he voted against it just last week --are you unaware of that?

it's not that he just sat on the fence here, it's that he voted against it last week (the cloture vote) and though he missed it here, he said he would've voted against it.

what's next? giving Richard Russell a pass because his opposition didn't kill the Civil Rights Act of 1964? After all, his support wasn't "critical"?

and though you don't like the "accusation" it is you who has chosen to defend the indefensible.

i know politicians will do what they do for votes and whatever --whether or not i help a campaign against him, pragmatism doesn't require me to tell other people he's not so bad.

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. I said he may not end being among the worst of them...

... and by that I meant across the board on a wide range of important issues. Gay rights is one of those important issues but there are others like war and peacce and the protection of Socizl Security etc. If these DADT votes are an indication, he probably is among the worse Democrats on Gay Rights, and that sucks. It's not like I'm a fan of the guy. Next time he runs I might be working to defeat him. Time will tell.

[Phx_Dem]

19. He is a coward and a blowhard. I'm sick of his hateful rhetoric and lame excuses

for his cowardice.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. What happened to West Virginia? They voted for Dukakis in '88

And he was by no means a right leaning Democrat.

[hollowdweller]

24. What Happened

OK I'm from WV so I'll give it a shot.

WV is a state of poor people and working class people.

When the Democratic party was in power and federal programs and money was providing jobs, when labor's agenda was the Democratic parties agenda, and when the dems were responsible for mine safety regs the state voted Democratic.

However really since the 80's we've not had a lot of big govt projects, at least in WV there's less gov't jobs, and really they've taken all the teeth out of OSHA and the Unions. We've seen mine disasters under both parties.

Clinton won in WV, but he started the trend of the democrats to be for free trade, cutting welfare and other policies Also Clinton and the dems passed a lot of gun control and I think the reality is there was sort of a sentiment if the gov't isn't going to stick up for you or help you then they should leave you alone.

So traditionally, before the party became Republican Light and bought into Supply Side economics of the GOP WV'ians voted dems even thought maybe they disagreed with the party on some social issues.
However once the party started supporting the big guys they started voting the social issues.

Manchin thought that he was making a good choice on those votes. Now maybe he did but also people in WV know when you are too afraid to stand up and try to ride the fence and that may hurt him worse.

But make no mistake. The Dem party sort of walked away from the working class issues that WV voters were voting for them for. They could easily get them back. Make gov't work for the little guy again.

[Lyric]

25. I'm from WV and I agree with you.

It has a LOT to do with the way that the Democratic Party ceased to defend the poor. That took the Dems' economic policy voter advantage out of the equation entirely, which left WV voters with only the social issues to distinguish the two parties. Since we're never going to "Out-God" the Republican Party...we lose that argument.

Before, the poor people here were willing to prioritize their own financial security over "moral values" and vote Democratic, because they KNEW that Democrats meant jobs, support for labor, and support for the welfare, Food Stamps, and other public assistance programs that are desperately needed whenever the jobs fail. Feeding your family comes first and foremost, after all. But when we started embracing right-wing economic policies, there was some understandable bitterness and anger. The Republicans took advantage of this, and switched to touting "moral values" as long and loud as they could. I guess people here decided that if neither party was going to help them survive, at least they could vote for the ones who seemed more "Godly". Republicans took advantage of our enormous mistake, and created the "Southern Strategy" which used racism, ignorance, poverty, and religion to bamboozle poor people into becoming viciously loyal Republicans. We couldn't fight it because we dismantled our biggest and most effective weapon (economic policy) before we ever even started to fight. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

All we'd need to do in order to make most of Appalachia (WV, KY, TN, OH, PA, VA) supportive of Democrats again would be to undo the welfare "reforms" and focus HARD on bringing back manufacturing jobs, supporting unions, and restoring the public safety net. It would take 20 years to undo the damage, but it WOULD happen.

Unfortunately it's likely never going to happen. Our party has...other priorities...it seems. *sigh*

[robcon]

23. I think he;ll turn Repuglican.

Watch for it.