Reality Check for all liberals:

[Pisces]

These stats are pretty hard to dispute:


bout 40% of the American population self-IDs as conservative, compared to only 20% who self-ID as liberal. You can argue all day long about what people really mean when they tell pollsters they're conservative, and you can argue all day long that liberals need to do something to change this instead of simply accepting it, but for any politician running for national office in the here and now, this is just the lay of the land. A hardcore conservative with hardcore conservative beliefs can count on a pretty big base of support right from the start, while a hardcore liberal candidate can count on bupkis. Conservative Republicans can win. Liberal Democrats generally can't unless they're running in very liberal congressional districts. If you're looking for a reason why liberal politicians tend to compromise more, you really don't have to look much further than this.


Maybe this explains why every candidate moves to the center after he primaries. Is the object ideological purity or is it to win and get into power to be able to effect change. I think we need to
come to terms with the makeup of the country as much as we don't like it.

[rucky]

1. The media has everything to do with it.

They've done a good job destroying the liberal brand, and continuously endorse a defective product.

[demosincebirth]

19. You can't blame it on all the media. We might try and look in the mirror sometime. nt

[snot]

40. I don't blame individuals in the media; but I DO blame their owners; and I blame

Dem pols for doing nothing to preserve independent media in this country (i.e., allowing the rollback of restrictions on the consolidation of media ownership into the hands of just a few megacorps, all of whom have conflicts of interest with objective news reporting).

[HughBeaumont]

41. We, as in you and I, don't have to.

"We" as in dumbasses who believe that shipping jobs overseas, stagnating wages, "Horatio Alger", wasting tax dollars to pick fights with sovereign nations and publicly-traded corporations running every aspect of life is great for America . . . well, yeah, for sure.

Ultimately, no one holds a gun to someone's head when they're choosing to put a bad piece of work like John Kasich in Ohio's governor's office, for example. But how do we get people more involved in the understanding of how state and national economies work before making such a bad decision in the first place?

[rucky]

48. check your sigline. n/t

[demosincebirth]

49. True!

[duhneece]

2. Concise, practical

Truthfully, I get too emotional at times and I appreciate your acknowledging our political 'climate' with no accusations, no over-emotional outburst.

[Pisces]

4. Kevin Drum from Mother Jones wrote the center piece. Here is a link, did not intend to

pass this off as my work.

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/12/why-liberals-compromise

[leveymg]

15. I don't trust Gallup's numbers. Why should Drum?

The fact is that when asked about specific issues, the American people are overwhelmingly progressive in their positions. Ideological self-identification is less important than issue-specific responses.

[Capn Sunshine]

53. Drum is pretty good at this journalism thingie, wouldn't you say?

It would seem the numbers are acceptable to him for purposes of that article. And he KNOWS people who verify survey info.

[Go2Peace]

31. But if that is indeed correct, then how did we get liberal majorities for 2 years?

I would argue because for a long political season the Progressive message neutered Republican messaging and we saw that when the population has two messages well proclaimed that at least 50% of the population identifies with the progressive message, even if they may be too confused by the assault on language to identify their preference as such.

It's too bad we did not keep up that kind of message momentum. You can see that we are not simply by reading this OP. They are back and winning through propaganda.

Fortunately, we do have a fledgling message industry, and while it cannot reach as large an audience or as forcefully, that "20%" is gaining their voice and building momentum.

[zbdent]

47. probably because the mishandling of Katrina was so obvious that

the "liberally-biased media" couldn't ignore it without looking like totally bought-out buffoon(s) ...

However, once it was figured out which Democratic candidate was actually going to be the lightning rod for all the world's ills, then the full-scale media attack (called "slobbering love affair") could commence.

[ClassWarrior]

3. That's all about labels. "Self-IDs." Check the population on the issues and...

...you'll see we're progressive nation. Read Ruy Texiera's "The Emerging Democratic Majority."

NGU.

[Tony_FLADEM]

5. 40% of Americans consider themselves conservative because of 2 issues: abortion and Balancing the

budget.


If liberals addressed these 2 issues they would benefit politically and still maintain their liberal principles.

Address the abortion issue by dealing with the actual cause of abortion which is economics and make tough decisions that relate to spending that balance the budget.

[Pisces]

6. Economics is not the main issue with abortion, it is about education which fundies object too.

The right wing does not want their children to receive sex ed in school.

[Tony_FLADEM]

17. According to the survey below, 73% of women have abortions for economic reasons

www.str.org/site/DocServer/Abortion-FactsandFigures-v06.pdf?docID=2429


I have seen other surveys with similiar results.

[SharonAnn]

56. But they want them to have religious eduction in school. From someone else!

They argue about it all the time. When I ask which denomination's teaching should be taught, they get a blank look. Of course, they each think their denomination's teachings are the ones that should be taught.

[rfranklin]

7. They label themselves conservative because liberal is perjorative term...

made so intentionally by right wing propagandists. When you poll issues individually America is a liberal country.

"Fact: A Gallup poll conducted on June 11, 2007 found that 51% of Americans consider themselves to be pro-choice, whereas just 43% stated they were pro-life. Pres. Bush's appointments to the Supreme Court have already resulted in the restriction of rights to abortion and promise to open the floodgates to challenges to Roe v. Wade. This judicial activism is directly opposed to the wishes of the majority of Americans who, while they support some restrictions on late term procedures, overwhelming oppose the repeal or Roe v. Wade. Of course, the 2000 Presidential election proved that the Supreme Court cares not for the will of the majority of Americans."

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/294530/are_most_americans_really_conservative.html?cat=3

[Hello_Kitty]

9. Kinda hard to balance the budget while providing the social safety net that would reduce abortion

I know there are people who are uncomfortable with abortion who are well-intentioned and would embrace what you're saying. However, the anti-choice movement is another matter entirely. It is not, and never has been about "life" for them. When they think no one is listening they speak openly about controlling women's sexuality and about going after contraception next. When Roe v Wade is overturned the next item on their agenda is Griswold v Connecticut. The latter case provided the framework for the privacy argument used in Roe.

Any and every compromise with anti-choicers brings them one step closer to their ultimate goal.

[Tony_FLADEM]

18. I think the American People would support increased spending to support a safety net if it were

articulated as a way to reduce abortions.

[mikekohr]

54. Clinton Balanced 5 budgets which is 5 X as many balanced budgets as the last 5 Republican Presidents

-COMBINED-

http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/national-debt.html

[baldguy]

8. Don't talk about labels, talk about issues.

When the GOP can claim to be "conservative" by supporting the tax cut extension that blows the deficit sky-high, and by opposing HCR that saves the fed govt $200 billion over the next 10 yrs, then labels are meaningless.

[niceypoo]

46. Or including torture as a 'family value'

Labeling doesn't mean shit.

[ThomCat]

10. If you actually talk to people, that label doesn't mean much.

People like to consider themselves conservative because of what they think the word means, but often without really knowing what it actually means in a political context.

For years I ran a small department in a small research firm doing surveys and polling. We continually called people with every changing surveys and questions to gauge people's political believes and compared their beliefs to their stated party affiliation.

One thing that was always true was that most people had no idea what their parties really did or really stood for. Most "conservatives" wanted more money spent on schools as long as they knew for sure that the money would really be spent to improve education. Most of them also agreed with buying land to expand the public parks and protected preserves and wetlands, and knew the importance of clean air and water. Most of them knew that regulations were necessary in order to ensure honesty in any large organization that accepted public money. The more information you gave people the more people would give nuanced answers, but supportive ones, instead of negative ones.

Over and over again we found that "conservatives" tended to agree with a lot of the same things as liberals if you phrased the question so that they understood the question and the issue in enough detail. The disagreements were in the details, not in the absolutes.

But if all you give people is the talking point that they heard on TV and demand an instant answer then people respond the way they have been programmed to respond. Thinking and nuance shuts down. If you give them a slogan, they respond predictably, and often against their best interests and against what they stated they believed.

I am not surprised that a poll finds a lot of conservatives. "Conservative" is always an attractive brand, especially in some parts of the country. But that is all it is; a brand.

But if you do any investigation to find out what is behind that brand, and what people know about it, and believe, it is never that simple.

[tularetom]

11. People might like to call themselves "conservative"

But they really don't buy into what has come to be known as "conservative" policies.

Ask some of your "conservative" friends if they would like to see Social Security and Medicare abolished.

The labelling of every issue as "liberal" vs. "conservative" has been cleverly manipulated by the right wing and their toadies in the media to the point where even intelligent people fall into the trap.

[msongs]

14. and the democratic party inc has gone along with the dissing of liberal all the way nt

[OHdem10]

12. It is "cool" to say you are conservative and liberal has been made

into "immoral".

People will say they are conservative to be socially
accepted and not even know what Conservatism stands
for.

The Republicans on the Hill are MUCH MORE CONSERVATIVE
than their constituents. People will do well to keep
this in mind.

[felix_numinous]

13. What data is being referenced?

I am having a hard time believing polls lately, they are too easy to manipulate, like electronic voting.

[leveymg]

16. Gallup polling - traditionally biased toward the GOP and the Right.

[abelenkpe]

21. Polls collect the opinions of the elderly

So a bunch of old cranky people who sit around all day watching FOX news identify themselves as conservative. Who cares. Few under the age of 45 have a land line or answer a number they don't recognize. Polls are an outdated method for gathering information. Not that internet polls are any better.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. The best poll of last year was the one which showed that most

Americans have no idea what any of the common political labels actually mean, nor which apply to themselves. So the 'self ID' concept is in and of itself problematic, enough so to preclude using such polling in any serious decision making process. Self ID is always skewed. To the point of absurdity.

[Pisces]

22. This could be true, but it still does not negate the fact that the Republican base votes repub no

matter what, unlike liberals. We do not vote as a monolith to accomplish the common goal. Sometimes we vote with a Nader.

[Hello_Kitty]

50. I once met a woman while canvassing who considered herself conservative

Because she was for conservation of the environment. She told me she was voting for Bush (it was 2004) because he was going to do more to help the poor.

[craigmatic]

23. First tell us where you get the numbers from.

Next tell us how these numbers break down on speciffic issues and then I'll show you how liberals can get things done. Nobody is 100% conservative on anything.

[Pholus]

24. Harry Truman has a thought for you...

"If you give the people a choice between a watered-down Republican and a Republican, they will choose the real thing every time."

So keep up the calls for moving to the center!

[ladjf]

25. Your statistics were accurate. But, I don't accept your political

advice as the best road to travel.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rfranklin]

27. Wrong! It is a matter of labeling...when asked about specifics...

Amricans lean left--

Abramowitz, author of The Disappearing Center: Engaged Citizens, Polarization, and American Democracy, crunches data from the Gallup News Service Governance Poll, conducted 9/13-16, and explains:

...While Americans often support conservative principles in the abstract, large majorities of Americans continue to support an active role for government in addressing a wide variety of societal needs and problems.

It is perhaps more surprising, given Americans' endorsement of broad conservative principles, that 76 percent of Gallup's respondents felt that government should have major or total responsibility for "protecting consumers from unsafe products" or that 66 percent felt that government should have major or total responsibility for "protecting the environment from human actions that can harm it." And it is perhaps even more surprising that 67 percent felt that government should have major or total responsibility for "preventing discrimination," that 57 percent felt that government should have major or total responsibility for "making sure all Americans have adequate healthcare," that 52 percent felt that government should have major or total responsibility for "making sure all who want jobs have them," or that 45 percent felt that government should have major or total responsibility for "providing a minimum standard of living for all Americans" (versus only 33 percent who felt that government should have little or no responsibility in this area.)

http://www.thedemocraticstrategist.org/strategist/2010/12/tds_contributor_alan_abramowit.php

[Sherman A1]

28. I really think the labels are too restrictive.

I am a social liberal and fiscal conservative. I bet you would find everyone claiming to be a fiscal conservative, but are they? What you believe important to spend money upon, I may disagree with entirely and we could easily see each other as spend thrifts with the tax dollars.

Labels just don't work anymore.

[mtnsnake]

29. Rush Limbaugh & the Right Wing have done their best to make the word "liberal" a bad word

Unfortunately, rightwing hate radio has succeeded because they outnumber us on the airwaves by at least 10 to 1. Someday, maybe Democrats will learn how to give payback and make the word "conservative" a filthy word as well and start off by funding more liberal radio shows than what we have now.

[Go2Peace]

30. This is the result of the power of Republican messaging propaganda

When you destroy and distort words you limit the ability of people to express their ideas. There has been such an assault on words associated with liberal that even though the public may still have many "liberal" ethics or political ideas, they no longer identify them as such.

That is one of the problems we have to come to grip with. We are in an age of incredibly powerful mind altering science being used to manipulate the masses.

[Kermitt Gribble]

32. Reality Check??

"You can argue all day long about what people really mean when they tell pollsters they're conservative" - that's why we're moving to the right as a country. The vast majority have no idea what it means to be liberal or conservative these days - partly due to the media, partly due to lying politicians, and partly due to sheer ignorance - all by design to enable a right wing agenda.

The real determining factor is where people stand on the issues. Majorities are on the Liberal side of issues like national healthcare, civil rights, less corporate wellfare, Social Security, worker's rights, etc. Explain the massive public support for a public option or Medicare-for-all, yet the people in DC claim that this isn't the right time. The right time for who? They certainly aren't talking about the American People. This OP is just more excuses for a conservative Democratic administration.

[SkyDaddy7]

33. I have said this many times!

But it seems folks want to think otherwise! Just look at how many Americans think America is god's fav country & that says it all!

Many also refuse to admit the influence Rupert Murdoch has on this country's media as well!

[robcon]

34. It is the word "liberal" that is in disrepute.

There are a lot more progressives/liberals than the 20% who are willing to be labeled a "liberal."

[niceypoo]

44. Progressive is the new liberal

Progressive became popular when the republicans made 'liberal' a bad work.

[PurityOfEssence]

35. The term "liberal" has been so vigorously and systematically stigmatized that this means little

People forget what was at the heart of "1984": the concept of newspeak and its ability, by destroying language, to destroy the feelings described by it. It has been a linguistic hate-fest of epic proportions for the last more than half a century to deride, denigrate and vilify the word "liberal" that people run from it from mere sense-memory alone.

That's why so many prefer the label "progressive", and why so many of us call those people out as being weak in the face of an onslaught.

It's also a bit of an imbalanced dichotomy, anyway: I would say that a "liberal" is a bit farther from the center than a "conservative", and even though this is all very imperfect and subjective, I'll bet this plays into the results cited.

[PassingFair]

37. When the DLC scum claimed to be "liberals"...when Joe Lieberman

was held to have had the "most liberal voting record"
in the Senate....

THAT'S when I started to identify as a "Progressive".

I am happy that the Progressive Caucus is now larger
than the Blue Dogs and the "Liberal" New Dems put together.

[jeanpalmer]

36. It has a lot to do

with the fact that the leaders of both parties, along with the MSM, bought into Reragan's free trade free market supply-side trickle down theories, including Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. How would the people know that there is an alternative? We thought we might be electing an alternative in 2008, but only because he concealed who he really was. It's amazing there are still 20% who held out against the propaganda.

It was always interesting to watch Democrats be seduced by Reagan's economic theories, while watching the empire expand and the debt pile up. Couldn't see the rot taking place behind the facade. And still don't

[awoke_in_2003]

38. To quote Winston Smith...

"Sanity is not statistical".

[Cutatious]

39. It's time for some compassionate Liberalism

High intelligent spending and low taxes.

[Raine]

42. When Dukasis ran for prez he let the name "Liberal" be sullied, disrespected

and degraded without a single defense. Ever since then it's been open season on "liberals". Now we have the Obama adminstration doing the same thing. It's no wonder people run from it when even "liberals" cast liberals being at fault for everything. :yoiks:

[Hello_Kitty]

51. [phone] to the power of infinity!

I agree with every word.

[niceypoo]

43. My core convictions do not drift with the polls

[niceypoo]

45. That 20% is at least half of the Democratic party

I am curious what the question they asked was.

[ProgressOnTheMove]

52. Exactly there is years of work ahead, but people msut at all costs stay in the game.

[Cherchez la Femme]

55. When asked a direct question

the majority (large majority in most cases) respond exactly the way any liberal would (i.e. Health Care/Single Payer, increased Taxes for the wealthy, our out of control defense spending, etc. etc. etc.)

BUT

when couched as something like 'do you agree with the Liberal, or Socialist idea of...' the 'pukes and our mass media have made those words radioactive, and the answer turns out then: "No".

So kindly take your "reality check" and... aw fuggeddaboudit