ALTERNET: What are the white supremacists saying about Cain?

[K8-EEE]

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2011/10/09/what-are-white-supremacists-saying-about-herman-cain/



14. But I am concerned with those points, I worry about the concept of “our Negro is better than your Negro, look we are not racist”

15. Hell will freeze over before I support or vote for this negro. Maybe he knows math and maybe not. You never know with their lot. They are given opportunities not afforded most whites. Chances are he didn’t earn it, but had a hand up and has learned to parrot his lines well like our president. They thought he was smart also.

16. I don’t want to see another black president either, but we can use Herman Cain. It’s been pointed out that he is a big Uncle Tom. Quite literally ‘Uncle Ruckus’ from the racially motivated cartoon ‘Boondocks’. If he is a canidate that White America can get behind, then the race card will be null and void.

17. I know I might get yelled at for this, but he’s a conservative white man in a black mans skin. Even if he isn’t as true to the cause as Ron Paul, who I fully support. But before you cast judgement please watch this clip on YouTube of Cain acting pro-white. It’ll have you laughing.

[OneGrassRoot]

1. Are there two types of racism going on nowadays?

Forgive me if this is a stupid or ill-worded post. I'm pretty sure I have both sinus and ear infections at this point and my head feels like it weighs 1000 lbs. :(

But a comment in #15 caught my attention.

We're familiar with racism in the form of dehumanizing other groups based on race, feeling a sense of entitlement or superiority. White-on-black racism is the most prevalent form of racism in our society by far.

But has a new type of racism emerged since Affirmative Action, in the form of pure resentment ("they are given opportunities not afforded most whites"), and it isn't necessarily steeped in a sense of being superior or entitled in any way? Of course, that's not really racism in that case, but the actions and behavior exhibited would be the same, even if the underlying cause of the hatred was different.

Just wondering. There are so many complicated emotions and behaviors and viewpoints surrounding these issues that it's hard to get to the root of where the hatred and ignorance lies.

[K8-EEE]

3. I think they do resent AA because they liked the way it was before AA

When blacks "knew their place."

Funny -- Cain's dad was a chauffer for a corporate exec, does that mean in Cain's GOP head that he was less intelligent or lazier than Cain himself or do ya think AA had anything to do with it? In his father's time there WERE no black executives in corporate America, PERIOD, and that's what they want to go back to.

[OneGrassRoot]

4. Gawd only knows what's in Cain's head.

That man is a disgrace on so many levels, imho.

:puke:

It's a given that there is resentment, but I'm wondering if for some (those under 30, with racist parents, who grew up hearing about how the white man has been beaten down by AA), their attitudes are based strictly on resentment and not really a sense of superiority, as is usually the case.

Maybe Alka-Seltzer Cold Plus will provide an answer.

:)

[Karenina]

7. A "new" type?

Please allow me to challenge your train of thought here with this question. Have people of colour AS A COLLECTIVE ever done anything to "white people" as a collective that would explain or justify their visceral determination to maintain "white supremacy?" (Mugabe notwithstanding. :rofl: ) Conversely, has white supremacy (in ALL its forms INCLUDING the worldwide prevalence of "colourism") ever done anything to people of colour that might provoke mistrust, resentment, fear, anger etc. ad nauseum?

"But has a new type of racism emerged since Affirmative Action, in the form of pure resentment ("they are given opportunities not afforded most whites"), and it isn't necessarily steeped in a sense of being superior or entitled in any way? Of course, that's not really racism in that case, but the actions and behavior exhibited would be the same, even if the underlying cause of the hatred was different."

The underlying assumption is "I AM WHITE. I AM BETTER." I spent DECADES on the receiving end of this shit and would be more than happy to discuss it with you. :loveya:

[Raschel]

9. Yup. Nothin' new that I see.

[OneGrassRoot]

10. Uh-oh, I knew I should have kept my fever-induced thoughts to myself...

LOL...I'm not able to word what I'm thinking well enough to express it. My bad. :(

I was speaking of the form of racism I'm most familiar with, which is most prevalent in this country thus far: whites feeling superior to people of color.

So the answers to your first two questions are no and yes respectively. :)

Bear with me as I try to use an analogy...

For some who deeply resent the "wealthy elite" as a whole, without knowing them as individuals and without knowing if they may be one of those who are advocating for more economic justice, higher taxes for the wealthy, etc., their resentment wouldn't be called racism or bigotry. There's not a sense of being superior to the "wealthy elite" (nor inferior); it's just pure resentment for the pain and suffering so many are enduring, and the resentment is aimed at anyone in the top 1%.

I'm wondering if a similar scenario may be in play with some of the younger generation of white kids raised by racist parents who have spouted the AA right-wing BS throughout their life and how unfair it is. Maybe the white superiority aspect of racism hasn't filtered down, but resentment has. The resentment would be based in ignorance, but not necessarily racism in the traditional sense of feeling superior to or entitled to. Not any more than the "wealthy elite" example I gave above.

This feeling of being superior to another because of race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion, etc., is so uncivilized that I'm hoping it's no longer the driving force behind some of the racist and bigoted tendencies we see in some members of the younger generation. If that's the case, education can help shift their perspective if they can get away from right-wing propaganda.

If someone truly holds racist and/or bigoted views, that's a much greater challenge.

Of course, I have no idea how old the poster was who typed the part I quoted from the OP, but it raised the question in my mind and I, foolishly, shared it.

:hi:


edit for typo

[Number23]

18. I hear what you're saying and I think you're getting your points across beautifully

Thank you for asking these questions.

The resentment would be based in ignorance, but not necessarily racism in the traditional sense of feeling superior to or entitled to. Not any more than the "wealthy elite" example I gave above.

But that "resentment" is based on the idea that well-deserving white folks (who are inherently superior) are being given the short end of the stick in favor of undeserving black folks (who are inherently inferior). Opportunities/advantages are being "taken" from deserving white folks and being given to blacks who don't deserve them.

The "resentment" is still very much mired in the concept of white supremacy upon which this country was built. And this has been going on ever since affirmative action was created in order to correct past discrepancies in which white folks regardless of ability, skill and education were automatically given preferential treatment over people of color, regardless of ability, skill and education.

Of course the biggest irony of all, and one that racist always seem to overlook, is that affirmative action has benefited white women more than any other group.

[boppers]

21. There's an equality of treatment argument still floating around.

In short: The "resentment" is based on the idea that well-deserving white folks are being given the short end of the stick in favor of equally deserving black folks.

That's what the bake-sale stunt is all about, treating people differently based on arbitrary grounds that may or may not be justified.

[OneGrassRoot]

23. Roland Martin (CNN) had a great segment about AA and your last paragraph...

after that Berkeley bake sale incident.

He brought up that very point, that it's one thing to oppose AA, but that people can't pick and choose what they don't like about it. He pointed out that many of the students opposing AA at schools have benefited tremendously from AA specifically because their mother's obtained more opportunities as a result.

:thumbsup:

As to the other....

(First, thank you for being patient with me...:hug:)

But that "resentment" is based on the idea that well-deserving white folks (who are inherently superior) are being given the short end of the stick in favor of undeserving black folks (who are inherently inferior). Opportunities/advantages are being "taken" from deserving white folks and being given to blacks who don't deserve them.

Certainly in racism that is the case, and it's the scenario I have most often witnessed throughout my life. A resentment based on entitlement and a feeling of superiority.

As you probably have noticed, I absolutely do not deny how entrenched institutionalized racism and bigotry are in this country. Not at all.

Yet for some younger people I've observed, I don't detect the sense of white superiority/entitlement that usually underlies racist attitudes. However, as they start to struggle with finding jobs, etc. -- and if they are around others with racist attitudes (or if they start listening to Limbaugh, Beck, etc.) -- I see resentment start to be infused with racism.

Hope that makes sense.

I suppose even if there are some white people who don't really subscribe to the notion that they are superior in any way, but are full of resentment and follow the Limbaugh's of the world who tell them who they should be angry with, they then inadvertently start to view others as inferior, as part of their hatred and resentment.

Maybe they didn't start off with this feeling of white superiority and racist attitudes, but they came to it nonetheless -- by talking themselves into the fact that they "deserve" something more than other groups of people. That is racism. So, I suppose it's a moot point...lol.

Bottom line, there is extraordinary ignorance underlying all of these attitudes, regardless of how they take hold. I'm always trying to understand the origins, since every family dynamic and life situation is different.

:hi:



edit for clarity

[Karenina]

25. Even your fever-induced thoughts

are filled with food for thought. Gute Besserung, Schatz. I so appreciate your posts.

[OneGrassRoot]

26. Thanks, Karenina.

I appreciate the well wishes and kind words.

:hug:

[DirkGently]

17. Do you think all overtly racist arguments stem for a real belief in racial superiority?

I thought part of the observation here was that groups who openly argue for racist views simply want to take something from someone else. That's not exactly the same as a biased personal reaction to someone who looks different or is perceived as part of another group. They're invested in supporting an overt take on race that means they are entitled to more, or non-whites to less. They're making an argument that doesn't even require internal bias; just a willingness to push another identifiable group of people down.

Thought that was what the "new" or different thing the OP was aiming at.

[Karenina]

27. Oh, dear Dirk! This shit is as complicated as the "banking system!"

:rofl::freak::rofl: The "markets" are ____________. WHO ARE these "markets" anyway? WHO gets to define?

First of all, it's so much about non-verbal communication steeped in emotion, education and class and POWER. Second, our language is charged and inadequate, becoming ever more truncated by technology. The many words the Inuits have to describe snow come to mind.

"Do you think all overtly racist arguments stem for a real belief in racial superiority?"

No, I believe they're based in FEAR.

"I thought part of the observation here was that groups who openly argue for racist views simply want to take something from someone else."

Hmmm... groups that openly argue for 1%/racist views are frightened people. They've already taken something from someone else and fear losing the ability and control to do so.

"That's not exactly the same as a biased personal reaction to someone who looks different or is perceived as part of another group."

In this Twitter Age, I'll leave that issue to another post if you want to pursue it. It's where the shit gets TOTALLY BATSHIT! :rofl:

Tante K. (being coy)

P.S. And you absotively, posulutely gotta watch this:

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/12/john_carlos_1968_olympic_us_medalist

[DirkGently]

11. Don't think that's new. The desire to keep some group below another lurks in most overt bigotry.

I don't think most overtly racist movements and groups genuinely believe in their own group's "supremacy." They're intellectually dishonest, and just want to push other perceived groups lower, as a means to keep their own higher in relative terms, like the people who answer polls saying they'd rather live in a world where they make $50,000 per year and most make $25,000, than in a world where everyone makes $100,000.

Thus the constant insistence that any achievement from the "other" group must have been stolen or obtained by some fraud. "They" are lower than "us." Always. Even when they clearly are not.

I think that mechanism drove a lot of working-class racism in the old South. Working class people didn't have any obvious economic motive like plantation owners. But one (sad, cruel) way to keep themselves from the very bottom of the socio-economic ladder was to put another group there permanently. "At least we're not _____." An enforced, rigid lowest class from which they were permanently exempt.

I see the same human impulse in people who resent any kind of socio-economic leveling overall. A poster once "screamed" to me that he didn't want universal healthcare, because then "a homeless person could get the same care I could." Why would that matter, if all the care is good?

It shouldn't, but people measure what they have in part by what others have not. Their elevation by someone else's degradation.

Real hatred is driven by fear. It may be expressed as a sense of entitlement or superiority, but that's a lie, even when people tell it to themselves.

The further we get in history, the harder it becomes to maintain an idea as facially invalid as racism. To me it looks more and more like naked economic warfare, wrapped in a thin robe of whatever rationalization comes to hand.

[OneGrassRoot]

12. I really appreciate your post.

I agree that hatred is driven by fear, so I've always tried to understand the fear underlying racism and bigotry.

You've given me a lot to ponder. This truly resonates.

Thanks again.

:)

[DirkGently]

16. Uh oh. We are in danger of having a discussion. I think there's an Alert for that.

;)

[OneGrassRoot]

24. ...

:)

I typed out my thoughts in #23 above. I agree with you that there isn't always an inherent sense of racial superiority, but people talk themselves into it for different reasons, usually socioeconomic ones as you've stated.

Of course, as we've seen time and time again, when people lie to themselves often enough, they truly start to believe their own BS. Regardless of how they get to the point of viewing other groups of people as inferior, the dehumanizing result is the same.

Thanks again.

[lindysalsagal]

19. This is Joe the Plumber. Remember Sarah's special friend? "I've been robbed!"

Basically, these losers are stupid and poor and are always looking at someone else to blame, including resenting black people, who they consider second class citizens.

Basically, there's no one low enough to escape their resentment and blame.

Babies.

[treestar]

20. No, IMO it's a matter of assuming that since Cain succeeded

in business it must have been due to some "affirmative action." Not that Cain was a good businessman or anything like that. He couldn't be, because blacks don't have those qualities, per these idiots.

They never see affirmative action as a choice between two equal candidates, and the black person getting the job because all other factors are equal and the employer hires on affirmative action. To them, it is always that the black person was inferior (that must be the case, since blacks are inferior in their minds) but still got the job over the more qualified white person.

Countless whites who fail to get a job will claim the employer said to them they were the better candidate, but we have to hire a black or a woman. This is clearly a lie, as who in hiring would say such a thing and jeopardize their job just to tell some white applicant a thing like that?

Rush and ilk have said this about President Obama too. He graduated from Harvard Law School, he must have gotten admitted to that institution due to "affirmative action" and some more deserving white student got kicked aside for it. He was editor of the law review, and that achievement must be due to affirmative action. They don't realize they are tipping their hand by assuming it. President Obama is black, so it must have been affirmative action. It's not like he could have been the smartest student in the class.

[GodlessBiker]

2. I feel like I'm reading passages from The Help.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Ugh

:puke:

[bullwinkle428]

6. Once again, white supremacists unwittingly destroying the very

argument they attempt to make (of their own inherent superiority) with their own words!

[flamingdem]

8. yikes. I want to know but I don't want to know

what those cretins are thinking.

[On the Road]

13. He Might Even Get Some White Supremacist Votes

from the kind of person who would have been one of Clayton Bigsby's handlers:

[Tarheel_Dem]

14. Someone should send these excerpts to Cain, especially since he doesn't see racism...

these days. :hi:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

15. something about 3 piece cookies often dunked in milk.

[SadPanda]

22. It's crazy how many Upper Class Republicans jumped behind Cain....

He was their answer to Obama. Really? Says a lot about the Republican primaries.

In reality, we have Obama vs Romney. Everyone knows it.