Is pepper spray torture?

[onehandle]

Poll question: Is pepper spray torture?

[Pharaoh]

1. This guy

is the epitome of a pig. And I don't use this term for cops in general. To use a pepper cannon on people peacefully sitting there is illegal one would think and he and his superiors should be sacked or punished.

[DocMac]

4. Yeah...Would like to go into thunderdome with this PIG. nt

[Uben]

2. When did "Protect and Serve" become "Restrict and Abuse"?

These fucking idiot cops need to re-evaluate their "human" status. What kind of person does this kind of thing? A coward? A little weenie bastard who has no power other than to go around abusing other humans because he is too lazy to stand up for anything right? I vote we kick his worthless ass out of the human race and place him in the "pond scum" genus.

[The Magistrate]

3. In This Sort Of Usage, Sir, Yes: This Is Deliberate Infliction Of Pain To Punish For Disobedience

Its purpose is to terrorize, and dissuade people from future participation in demonstrations of dissent, by m,aking them fearful they would be subjected to such pain themselves if they took part in demonstrations.

[treestar]

19. Then it is all right to use it on

others - garden variety crime?

When is it all right and when not?

[The Magistrate]

21. Use Of Force Should Be Appropriate, Sir

If attempting to subdue a person engaged in felony-level violence, the use might well be appropriate, as would potentially lethal use of a stick or a firearm.

[Bette Noir]

5. On the upside, this sort of publicity for the US will reduce immigration.

:sarcasm:

[truth2power]

6. Yes. And I'm wondering something, looking at that cop. Does he have children?...

He shows no emotion. How can he do that to those kids and not think about how he'd feel if it was his own children who were treated that way.

Something is very wrong with our law enforcement in this country. It's as if they're all subjected to some sort of mind-control. Is there ANYTHING that would be so odious that they'd refuse to participate? It boggles the mind.

[Danascot]

7. Turns out that use of pepper spray on non-violent protesters

was found by California courts to be illegal

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1332957.html

More info here

http://www.shouselaw.com/pepperspray.html

[Pachamama]

8. I watched on news last night Cops w/ big red canisters walking slowly down a row of protesters at UC

Davis who had their arms locked and sitting peacefully and non-violent. The cops held the canisters one foot away from all of their faces and just starting sweeping and spraying at them when it was empty, they would shake it and get another and keep spraying. Not once did these students unlock or lunge at the police who were doing this to them I felt my body want to vomit as i watched this in horror. My 11 yr old started crying and said how can they do this, this is America? I didnt know what to say. I thought this was America too. The sickest thing was the look on the face of the cops. Looked like sadistic Mofos who were actually enjoying it and it was sickening. Hope these students can sue. I cannot believe what i have been witnessing being done to citizens who are non- violent and exercising their rights. It only is going to make more and more people support the movement and expose the truth.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/11/18/officers-arresting-occupy-protesters-at-uc-davis/

Sick....absolutely sick....

[WingDinger]

13. Um, they have declared that locking arms is violent. therefore!!!!

[yardwork]

16. I hope that they and their parents sue. They certainly have plenty of evidence.

[Pachamama]

17. Hey there Yardwork!

Its been a longtime since i started to post on DU and its nice to see some of the "old DUers".... :hi:

[yardwork]

34. Pachamama! Haven't seen you in ages! How you doin?

:hi:

[They_Live]

9. It is torture

and in particular when spraying and then handcuffing someone, which is what happened here.

[Vattel]

10. It is not torture, as that term is ordinarily understood,

but as used by police on peaceful demonstrators, it is inhumane and degrading treatment.

[They_Live]

11. So

how do you feel about water boarding?

[Vattel]

14. waterboarding is torture and far more cruel than pepper spray

[Pachamama]

12. If its not torture, its certainly & most definitely excessive force.

Also inhumane treatment. Whatever you want to call it - its wrong & should be prohibited.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/11/18/officers-arresting-occupy-protesters-at-uc-davis/

[Vattel]

15. I totally agree

[starroute]

18. Pain compliance techniques

There's a certain gradation here, which is why people can argue about whether pepper spray is torture or not. I think the obvious conclusion is that all these techniques are coercive, that all involve the use of pain to force the subject to comply -- but that a line is crossed when they become gratuitous or are used as punishment for previous defiance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_compliance

Pain compliance is the use of painful stimulus to control or direct a person or animal. The stimulus can be manual (brute force, placing pressure on painful areas, or use of painful hyperextension or hyperflexion on joints), use tools such as a whip or electroshock weapon, or use of chemical such as tear gas or pepper spray.

The purpose of pain compliance is to direct the actions of the subject, and to this end, the pain is lessened or removed when compliance is achieved. This provides incentive to the subject to carry out the action required.

The most common use in humans is as a law enforcement technique to assist with taking a suspect in to custody, control a suspect in custody or encourage action on behalf of a person who is passively resisting. In disciplined law enforcement, the use of pain compliance forms part of a use of force continuum which will usually start with verbal warnings, before escalating measures. . . .

Like other forms of non-lethal force, such pain compliance strategies are not perfect and may be abused as a form of torture, with plausible deniability. For this reason the use of pain compliance is often subject to explicit rules of engagement designed to prevent abuse and avoid conflict escalation.

[uponit7771]

20. WOW!! What an asshole, how does THIS pic look internationally? WOW!!

[Azathoth]

22. Sure, if the victim is in custody, tied down with their eyes taped open

The photo, however, doesn't portray torture, just police brutality.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

23. UCD pepperspray cop named in article...

Lt. John Pike

[Gregorian]

24. Is torture torture?

Some corner of my brain made me say that.

I'm thinking of two things. Definitions. And something else. My brain is fucked at the moment.

[Pachamama]

25. Its okay Gregorian....

The world is fucked at the moment.....we all have those very same thoughts these days ..... Its the result of too much messaging with "Up is down", "Black is white"' etc....

:hi: longtime.....its nice to see some of the old familiar DUers are still here.....

[Gregorian]

27. Cheers!

Three lattes, and I'm still not fully awake. Plus I'm multitasking. Max Keiser is doing a live show in London on Resonancefm radio. Talking about the Peasant's revolution. And the similarities. Lots going on.

:)

[Hutzpa]

26. What's sad about this is that the very thing that this

people are fighting for is something that will help this idiot son and his wife and kids,
that is if he has any.

This is taking policing to another level, a level that has never been seen before until now.

On Edit
That image makes more pissed off.

[malthaussen]

28. I would not call it torture

... since the victims are not restrained from fleeing in any way. Pepper spray could be used for torture, of course, but the application of spray is not ipso facto torture.

-- Mal

[high density]

29. How can these cops sleep at night?

This shit is completely out of bounds.

[obliviously]

30. Now that they are seasoned

they need to be tenderized!

[greytdemocrat]

31. I'd use salt...

but point taken...

[Swede]

32. It is disgusting. It is assault.

He should face justice for this. Torture? I don't know.

[treestar]

33. No. I don't see why it need be in order to protest its

improper use.