Why should you buy a domestic car vs. a foreign car?

[FLAprogressive]

I've heard the argument here that we should not buy from GM/Ford/Chrysler....usually with statements like "Well the Ford X is made in Mexico and the Toyota X is made in Indiana!!!" (which of course, is just one car and one example, designed to paint an inaccurate picture). There is also a surprising amount of anti-union sentiment attached to some of these posts.

Well, here's a study which shows you why you should buy from domestic automakers:

www.levelfieldinstitute.org/files/press/july_study.pdf



Domestic cars, and their parts, that are made in the United States are made with union labor. And clearly, even the "least domestic job-creator" domestic car company (GM) creates more jobs per 1000 cars sold than the "most domestic job-creator" foreign car company (BMW)! And the jobs are mostly union.

Buy union made cars from domestic companies, and support American UNION jobs!

http://www.uaw.org/cars

[Union Scribe]

1. Great post and links, k/r! nt

[FLAprogressive]

2. Thanks, trying to address some of the anti-union, factually deficient posts I've seen here.

[Philippine expat]

112. How many of those jobs listed for

the domestic auto makers include salesmen and mechanics at dealers, people who work in
advertising, payroll departments, and other non union jobs.
And I've only bought domestic automobiles for the past 38 years

[dkf]

3. As long as it has a good track record for reliability and a nice solid build

I'd consider either.

[FLAprogressive]

4. Most domestic cars (particularly Fords) are at or near the very top of their classes and are also

priced competitively.

[Egnever]

5. its a great argument for buying domestic cars

sadly as of my last car purchase in 2004 the quality of vehicle I got didn't come close to comparing.

My wife and I both got cars near the same time I got a Honda element she got a Saturn view. MY element has almost 100k miles on it now and is still tight as a drum with only oil changes and regular service. Her View started deiseling almost immediately and now has a knock in the front drivers side that sounds like a suspension issue I have to have checked out as soon as we can afford it and the thing doesnt even have 50k on it yet.

I desperately want to buy domestic cars but so far in my 45 years on the planet my luck with domestics has been abysmal.

I hear they are much better these days but once bitten twice shy.

[FLAprogressive]

6. They are much better....Ford's reliability, for example, is now considered on par with Honda/Toyota

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/10/ford_reliability_closes_in_on.html

GM's reliability is getting better, as well.

Chrysler has a little ways to go, however, they have been improving dramatically in all areas under Fiat.

[Egnever]

9. I dont know

I am glad they are improving but....

- 34 of the 39 models in the "Most Reliable" list are Asian: 17 are from Toyota (including Lexus and Scion); 7 are from Honda (including Acura); 3 each from Hyundai and Nissan (including Infiniti); 2 are from Subaru; and 1 each from Mitsubishi and Mazda

http://www.standardnewswire.com/news/105981712.html

[ejpoeta]

13. we have a chrysler town and country.

we have had problems with the brakes needing to be changed once a year, but other than that and the shifter getting stuck and I have to hit it to let me turn the key off, it works fine. I am glad that bob can change the brakes himself, but the whole point of buying a new car (our first new car) was so bob didn't have to climb under it and fix it all the time. at least it has a lifetime powertrain warranty and I hope I never have to find out what that means and what that covers and doesn't cover. WE bought it shortly before the shit hit the fan so to speak and then we were wondering what the possibility of a dodge going under would mean for us. THis was our first dodge product too. we have always owned fords.

[comtec]

54. American cars are FINALLY worth buying

the gas mileage of american made cars in the last 20+ years has been sad (My own, current Neon being an exception at 30 MPG)

My last car was a Kia (and no I won't recommend a kia over my American made Neon) an got 30+ with AC and an automatic transmission.
before that I had a Geo Metro (suzuki swift) 3cyl which got 65 MPG. Name one american car that has EVER gotten close to 55MPG let alone 65.

Now, ford DOES make a small, very fuel efficient car, it's called the KA! it's made for the european market.

ONE major problem the US car market has had is crappy cars. (notice I'm not mentioning trucks, where american are the best world round.)

With production outside the US, and quality (not the union builder's fault. it was management) and gas mileage of garbage, the US car manufacturers hurt themselves.

Mind you I love my 98 Neon. She runs well, gets great mileage, and survived the worst winter is 15 years here in Minnesota. But the Neon was under advertised.

the big gas guzzlers were over advertised and overall were crap.

Example of good and bad new cars.
Last year I rented a ford fusion. I loved it, except the .5 second lag in braking and acceleration. that scared me, but was never a serious issue. I'd buy a fusion BTW.

Chrysler... something. I got a good deal on it, which is good because the gas mileage was crap (20) and the 'comfort' features that justified it's extra cost just weren't there for me. I found the Fusion a MUCH better car.

The hybrids that are hitting the market (while I think they are crap MPG for what a hybrid SHOULD be, at least american cars are making them) and the Volt, makes american car makers competitive again.

I like that I can now look at an american made car for my next purchase, because American cars CAN be great cars. That the industry has fallen on their face in the last 20 years is not my problem. That they have finally become viable is whats important now.

I've always railed against the "buy americn JUST to buy american" crap.
I buy what fits MY NEEDS, and American cars haven't, for the most part.
they are over priced, too few MPGs and cheap feeling for the cost, as well as being made in Mexico and Canada.

NOW the cars on the market are what i want, they drive well, the MPGs are good, if not excellent, and they are finally responding to market needs, not what they THINK we want.

So, now that there are cars worth buying, that are competitive in both features and pricing, I will be buying American again, and I will be checking to make sure that the car I buy WAS made in the USA.

Again, none of this is a knock on the fine union builders, but the corporations for making shitty cars!
A car can be built brilliantly, but if it's with shit parts, it will be a shit car, plain and simple.
no union busting, it's just simple business and common sense.

Build it , and they will come ;)

[Heywood J]

97. Yeah, the thing about Neons

is that they're theft magnets - consistently on the top 10 for any year they were made. Come to think of it, anything with a Chrysler glow-ring ignition was on that list.

[hamsterjill]

7. Thank you. And I concur completely.

I don't understand posts about domestic cars not being reliable, etc. To some extent, I think people need to be sure to buy a car that is going to stand up to the way that they drive, etc. I mean, if you buy a small engine, you can't expect it to perform like a race car.

I have a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix with over 130,000 miles on it. And what have I had to do with that vehicle other than ordinary, basic maintenance?

I've had to replace two turn signal bulbs.

Pretty good track record, I would say, wouldn't you?

[RandomThoughts]

10. I can answer that.

Pretty good track record, I would say, wouldn't you?


There are various things in that, I understand what you are saying, you are equating equal methods on both sides by saying why only some and not others. There is no attempt to do that to the weaker ones, that even cause problems, and sometimes the weaker ones can get through.


To make it clearer If some group only cleaned kitchens. And another group wrecked kitchens. You could not find an equivalency by saying the group that wrecks kitchens, don't have there kitchens wrecked as often.


Or it is far easier to do something with anarchy. It is like the people that like totalitarianism, or don't like unions, becuase those things can apply more rules to groups. It is far easier to do wrong for wrong, then have a visible effect by justice and compassion. Even if people might think they are the same things when they are not. Since one has to be cleaning up like actions, and the other can be anything. However that does not make anarchy correct.

That is again the argument that power makes right, not what is right being right.


How hard is it for an FBI task force to get a master mind criminal with many resources, compared to someone that is a lawless vigilante. But the lawless group may seem to be more effective, but the long term effect is the removal of laws and anarchy through all of society, they get the wrong people, and create many other bad effects. So justice follows rules of justice and also compassion, and in that it is much harder, but maintains the high ground on the topics, which is needed for moving society forward.

So yea, the track record is really good, even if things aren't always perfect in an imperfect world.

[hamsterjill]

52. What???

I am merely saying that my 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix with over 130,000 miles has had very little go wrong with it. In fact, damn little go wrong with it!! To further state - it has been exceedingly trouble free.

This has been my experience with every other GM product that I've owned over the last 35 years. Every one of the cars has been an excellent product.

Now what do I do tend to run into with friends and family of my own, is that they will buy one of the smaller cars, with the smallest engines, and then they will try to drive that car like it's a race car. And most of the little ones, foreign OR domestic, are not going to be built to be driven like a speed racer. They can't take the punishment. And then I see those same family and friends bitching because they are having issues with the car.

Am I commenting on everyone in the world who's had a problem with a GM product? No...I am commenting on my own personal life experience.

But yes, I buy GM because it is an important thing to me to buy products that support American union workers.

[still_one]

8. People should buy the best car that gives them the best value. /nt

[RandomThoughts]

11. How do you define value and price.

Do you include how it effects society. If it was built with child labor, or with much pollution would that change the price?

Does the effect on society effect the price of a car.


If you buy something that is cheaper, but adds more pollution, or hurts people with bad working conditions, then would you also be getting the lower price by polluting and hurting people.

[still_one]

23. In the very generalized sense that is an individual judgement. /nt

[Festivito]

12. Also important is where the profits go. America versus abroad.

Of course, Chrysler, Ford and GM headquarter in the US and those executives live and buy in America.

I would suggest that stock owners of our American firms are also mostly in the US for these companies, however that would make for another table creation.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

20. I can't trust that.. with Chrysler selling out to investers and GM with the big bailout.

[DainBramaged]

90. One more time, it was a loan not a fucking bailout

Now I understand exactly what Hanna ment...

[Xithras]

87. Not exactly true.

By this time next year, the government will have transferred 70% of Chryslers ownership to Fiat. The remainder is a collection of private investors, mostly equity firms and banks.

GM has been a global corporation for decades. GM's stocks are a lot more diluted than Chryslers, but last I checked, aside from the stock temporarily held by the U.S. government, the biggest stakeholders in GM included a company in Shanghai, a Saudi Prince, and a smattering of international banking conglomerates.

Aside from a handful of billionaire investors, the U.S. auto industry hasn't been "American", at least at an ownership level, for a long time. Buying a Chevrolet will put more profit into the pocket of the Saudi royal family than it will the average American shareholder.

There are a lot of arguments for buying American cars. This really isn't one of them.

[Festivito]

113. So, buying from a company even more certain to not be American owned ..is.. BETTER?

I think what you claim as not exactly true, in seemingly colloquial form, is that GM and Chrysler MIGHT not be MOSTLY American owned. You offer no evidence since you do not include who owns Fiat.

Regardless, Ford is still mostly American owned and doing well. And, it is better to buy where the profits return to America, not Italy, Japan nor other spots. God love 'em.

But, we is US.

[jberryhill]

14. I buy USED cars

I do okay, but I really don't get how anyone can afford new cars in the first place.

[Dappleganger]

27. Same here, we haven't bought a new car since 1996.

[Shagbark Hickory]

28. Because they "buy" them with someone else's money.

Like bank of america for instance who charges them 8% or so interest while the care drops 10% or more in value each year its on the road.

[Codeine]

29. Some people really enjoy buying depreciation.

That new car smell ain't worth the five grand the car loses in value in the first year.

[blondeatlast]

48. +1, nt

[Lifelong Protester]

53. I buy new every 10 years or so. I take extra good care of the car.

I get a lot out of it. I average out that depreciation over ten years. That's how I do it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

111. I buy new and drive them till they die

[Kolesar]

15. The men who taught me ecology and environmentalism worked for GM

My scoutmasters. They were also pretty skeptical about the Vietnam War.

[quaker bill]

16. I do so because I can get a solid vehicle

and save thousands of dollars at the same time.

[Tesha]

17. Yes, but with Chrysler, 27 of those 47 American jobs are people who work in repair shops.

You might be able to sell me a Ford or a GM vehicle, but
you will NEVER, EVER sell me another Chrylser vehicle.
They are all engineered to last much less time than that
period for which I expect to own my cars. And their build
quality leads to a huge number of "infant mortality"
failures.

Tesha

[miyazaki]

38. good distinction!! n/t

[Lifelong Protester]

18. My current car is a Ford, my next will be a Ford, made in Wayne

Detroit.
Go union!

[NightWatcher]

50. my old Ranger was union made and my 10 year old F150 was too

[Vinca]

19. Is there a way to tell if the car you're buying was made in this country?

I know you used to be able to tell where a Toyota was made by the serial number. Is there a way to tell if the Ford you buy was made here by American workers? I have a 2002 Rav which I'll drive until it peters out, but I've been thinking about giving American-made cars another try next time around.

[krispos42]

21. First digit of the VIN

If it's a 1 or a 4, it's made here.

2 is Canada, 3 is Mexico, J is Japan... and I don't know the others. :dunce:

[tammywammy]

92. 9 is Brazil, W is Germany n/t

[Lifelong Protester]

51. On new cars it says so on the sticker

It also said so on the door frame of my Focus.

[FLAprogressive]

66. Just look up any model on Wikipedia....it will tell you the manufacturing locations.

If it gives multiple locations, look for an American location. That's where cars sold in America are made (not the other places).

For example, if it's a Ford Focus....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Focus_%28international%29#Mk_3_.282011.E2.80.94Present.29

Your car will have been made in Wayne, MI, not Germany.

Or if you're interested in a Chevrolet Cruze, your car will have been made in Lordstown, Ohio, not any of those other places:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Cruze#First_generation_.28J300.3B_2008.E2.80.93present.29

[HopeHoops]

22. I don't even like to RIDE in a foreign car. It makes me feel, you know, "dirty" or something.

:puke:

[JVS]

43. You know you want to ride in it, don't deny it.

[HopeHoops]

46. Maybe if I were appearing in a movie called "The Jetsons"

[Ron Green]

63. That's a nice car. Citroen DS-19 or -21 or something.

Very nice car.

[B Calm]

24. I've owned foreign vehicles and went back to GM. I prefer

American cars! I do wish they were made 100% right here in America like they use to be, but corporate greed decides. I look at your chart and still can see that buying American made vehicles does more for our economy than buying foreign.

Toyota we put the pedal to the metal and keep it there! Toyota the last car you'll ever buy!

[lumberjack_jeff]

25. Because they're better.

And I'm not going to pay $450 for an alternator.

[GoneOffShore]

26. Last car I bought was a Saab in 2000.

Still got it. As long as it keeps going, I'll keep it.

The decision to buy it was based on handling, mileage, safety, looks and whether it was fun to drive. At the time, Saab happened to be owned by GM - which was not a factor in the purchase.

When it goes, I'm going to do the ZipCar thing, public transport and walking. Or if I still need a car, we'll look for used.

[Shagbark Hickory]

30. Why you should buy a Toyota vs Detroit Brands.... (IMO)...

They last forever
They encounter fewer problems requiring visits to the mechanic
Their resale value is typically significantly higher
They are creating more and more jobs in the US as they are growing, whilst the Detroit brands, while they may be on top in terms of number of employees, they are also on top for job cuts, outsourcing and they recently downsized their companies, as you know, during the second greatest depression.

Chances are you spend more money each year on products that were not union-made, imported or worse, probably came from a sweat shop, than you do on automobiles. So the argument you buy Detroit brands because they are made in the US or because they are union shops is like saying you support the environment by re-using bags to carry home plastic water bottles from the store.

[AngryAmish]

31. GM lost me forever.

I'm not going to buy that many cars the rest of my life but I will not suffer through another GM car.

I own two cars, a 98 Accord and the mandatory Volvo station wagon for us yuppies with kids. Accord is now almost 14 years old but it is the best car I ever owned. When I sell her I am buying another Accord. The Volvo, well that only has 60k on her and I'm keeping it for another 8 years or so. But I might keep it forever. There are a lot of 20 year old Volvos on the road and I see no reason to change cars.

I like cars but not enough to actually have a car payment. I figure what I don't spend on cars goes to my club dues.

[BOG PERSON]

32. american cars tend to cost too much $$$

even their subcompacts are "luxurious". what if you just want something cheap and functional that will last you about ten years?

also if you think it's more moral to support US labor (by supporting US capital) than other countries' labor you are a US nationalist.

[blue_onyx]

35. Not true

They are not more expensive.

Toyota Yaris: $13,155
GM Aveo: $11,965
ford Fiesta: $13,320
Honda Fit: $15,100

Supporting workers in the US is now a bad thing? Wow.

[EOTE]

40. American subcompacts... luxurious?

Are you sure we're living in the same reality? Right now the only compacts which I'd deem to be luxurious come from Germany and Japan. The Mini line and Acura RSX/TSX are the closest I'd say we have to having a compact/subcompact being luxurious. But hey, if you consider the Focus, Fiesta, Cruze and Aveo to be luxurious, more power to you.

[FLAprogressive]

69. American cars are price and feature competitive to anything the Japanese/Koreans/etc are offering.

[SidDithers]

33. Wow. GM is WAY behind Chrysler and Ford...

Good chart. Thanks for posting. We're looking at a Ford Escape to replace the Dodge Caravan I'm driving now.

Sid

[jleavesl]

34. Allow me to rant...

I'm a bit of a car guy. I have a 2008 Jeep Wrangler, a 1950 Plymouth, and a 1972 Honda CB500 motorcycle. The 1950 Plymouth (with the stock drivetrain that was rebuilt in the late 70's by my great grandfather) runs better and spends less time with someone under the hood than the Jeep does. Now I like the jeep, radio, a 6 speed, and airconditioning are nice, but Jesus on a stick this thing has under less than 40k miles on it and isn't very reliable. It's like this thing was designed by a bunch of retarded drunken monkeys and assembled by unionized retarded drunken monkeys (I apologize to the retarded drunken monkeys, it is probably unfair to associate you with the incompetent twats that put this car together). I've owned a few GM cars before and it was the same story as the Jeep, utter crap. Transmission went out in one at 75k, and all the little plastic 'amenities broke'. I spent this weekend helping a buddy of mine change a headgasket in a 100k mile 2005 Impala.

Now the Plymouth has over 100k (maybe 200k or 300k... the odometer doesn't go that high) on it. It's been modded a little bit (electronic ignition and a 12V electrical system) but the stock powertrain is there and it cranks up consistently. The Honda motorcyle is 39 years old, has 20k on it, and after fixing the previous owners fuckups (left it sitting with gas in the carbs for a decade and from the looks of things, he attempted a carb rebuild and went a little crazy with the vice-grips), runs like a champ. The internals of the engine haven't been touched since before I was born. I did make it a point to buy American last time out (Jeep) and figured since I had zero of the amenities (no power windows, locks, etc... because those always went out on me) I would be OK. That was the wrong answer. Some electrical gremlin kept the car in the dealership for 2 months and I was stuck driving the 50 a hundred miles a day three times a week. If this is the quality of work I can expect from the jobs that I am creating by purchasing a "Union Made" car; then they probably ought to find another profession. If they made a car that was worth a damn, that I could keep running (with reasonable maintenance and repairs... that I could do myself), I would buy it in a heartbeat. That being said, if given the choice between a car that takes 3 hours of work to change the thermostat or a more stylish and reliable car that I built in my garage for the same or less money out of junkyard parts, I'm going to do that instead.

Build a car that's worth a shit, then get back to me on how many jobs it creates.

[Lance_Boyle]

36. When *any* of the domestic automakers give me the option of a 4-cyl turbodiesel

in a Jetta-sized sedan, I will check them out. Until then, it's fahrvergnugen for me.

[HopeHoops]

37. Owning a foreign car is like flying an American flag that was made in China.

It just screams "un-American". And Truck Nutz on a Toyota Tonka truck doesn't make it American, even for a redneck.

By the way - all of the flags at K-Mart are made in the USA. I won't even walk into a WalMart, but I doubt any of them are.

[Romulox]

39. I LOVE how half the foreign car aficionados on DU are H1B whiners and Teachers' Union advocates!

SOLIDARITY!!!12!~!!!!!

:rofl:

[FLAprogressive]

84. LOL, love your sig too.

[FreeJoe]

41. My last three cars were Japanese

Two were made in Ohio and one in Japan. Honestly, I don't sweat over where they were made. Japanese autoworkers need their jobs as much as American autoworkers do.

[DainBramaged]

94. Really???

And when the only jobs left here are low paying jobs, what then?


Most of you folks will ever see the forest for the trees. And to claim a Progressive mantle or support of Unions while buying Foreign is simply hypocritical.

[FreeJoe]

101. Really

Japanese workers aren't that poorly paid. Even if they were, I wouldn't reject their cars. While you may be happy with a world where Americans are well off and the rest of the world is in dire poverty, I'm hoping for a world in which we all make decent incomes.

[DainBramaged]

102. HAHAHAHAHA they make WAY MORE than the $14 an hour they are paying new hires

at Toyota, Nissan and Honda HERE.......HAHAHAHAHA

Ask the transplants how many of their workers REALLY retire from the line....


You keep cheering for the opposition. You make those of us who struggle to make a difference ill.

[FLAprogressive]

95. That's why Japan sticks to Japanese cars and that's why we should stick to American cars.

[FreeJoe]

98. You could apply that same logic

and say that people in Texas should only buy cars made in Texas. Or get even more local and buy only cars made in your city.

[FLAprogressive]

99. .

[DainBramaged]

104. And add this to yours

[DainBramaged]

103. They make importing American cars nearly impossible and add huge tariffs

We exported less than 6000 cars to Japan last year.


Those who cheer them on here haven't a clue about the economic imbalance we suffer dealing with them thanks to REPUBLICAN politicians and their sweetheart deals in the Southern states.

[FLAprogressive]

105. It's OK, because their Priuses get 1300 miles per gallon and is made in Kentuc....oh wait.

[DainBramaged]

106. I think logic and FACTS wins again......

:fistbump:

[DainBramaged]

110. So Joe, since we subsidize your purchases, how does that make you feel?

Know how much corrupt Republicans gave Honda to settle in Ohio?

[JVS]

42. I'm pissed off that I can't get a Citroen here.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. My '94 Toyota will probably outlive me.

It's a pickup and pretty beat up but it's unbreakable. The best car I've ever owned. Same goes for my wife's '91 Tercel.

[B Calm]

57. Toyota, last car you'll ever buy. They put the pedal to the metal and

keep it there!

[Shandris]

45. FLAProgressive...

...I know you mention 'the Toyota made in IN' as just one example, but being a Hoosier, it's sort-of a big example to us. Does this chart take those particular brands/makes into account, or is a conglomerate, or ~only~ overseas-made variants of the brand?

I'm not attacking your chart or anything, I'm seriously curious how it balances out with factors like that ~in my area~. And aren't they unionized here in Indiana? I've heard it both ways, so they may very well not be.

[Romulox]

47. How come Fukushima has shut down so many of Toyota's American plants, if the cars are "made" here?

Answer is that SIGNIFICANT portions of these cars are made overseas such that plants in places in Indiana can run for only a few days when the supplychain from Japan is disrupted.

Toyota making drastic production cuts after Japan quake, tsunami

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-04-20/us/us.japan.toyota_1_toyota-motor-engineering-production-manufacturing-north-america?_s=PM:US

[Shandris]

49. By 'made' I mean 'assembled'. Not that every piece is manufactured here.

The article does come as somewhat of a surprise though...I can't imagine why the parts couldn't be made in, say, Gary or Michigan City.

Still, an interesting point. Thank you.

[B Calm]

58. and all the profit money stays here in the USA, LOL, , , , ,

[Shandris]

60. ...what?

I wouldn't think it all would. Corporations simply don't ~do~ that. I know one of our Lafayette plants (Hyundai, maybe? It's been a few years since I last paid attention to much of our auto industry) used to do a lot of community reinvestment though, so I suppose a decent amount of it would. They were on par with Chrysler's community reinvestment in Kokomo, minus the large-chunk bonuses paid out bi-yearly, which they may or may not have had. I only know of Chrysler's bonuses because we used to look forward to that when I was in sales, but that's been....well over a decade now.

[DainBramaged]

108. They were given nearly $200,000 in incentives for every employee they hired by Alabama

do just a little research, they got $252 MILLION to build in Alabama.


http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/k/g/kgb999/2008/11/30-week/

We have Hyundai Motor Company that got $252 million in incentives. Toyota there got $29 million in incentives. Honda, $158 million and Mercedes $253 million in incentives. It just seems odd to us that we can help the financial institutions in this country and that we can offer incentives to our competitors to come here and compete against us but at the same time, we are willing to walk away from an industry that is the backbone of our economy."From 1981 to 2005 Michigan got back $.85 for every dollar in taxes sent to the federal government. Alabama got $1.71 for every dollar sent to the federal government." Alabama gives around $700 million per year to foreign manufacturers

[DainBramaged]

107. Because the entire manufacturing chain is a sham

they won't make the parts here, because we'd be taking jobs from THEM, but it's OK if they take these jobs and we support them.


For YEARS the japanese have imported parts, shipped them in circles, and then claimed the parts originated here. One day, the justice department will act on that sham.

[Dawson Leery]

55. Where is the European taxi cab manufacturer Mercedes on that list?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

56. One reason the Royal Wedding pissed me off ...

The police escorts were riding BMW motorcycle, IMPORTED from Germany. Not a Triumph in the motorcade.

Humbug.

:hi:

[JVS]

59. A motorcade of British cars is just begging for a spectacular disaster at some point.

[Township75]

61. UAW workesr can buy clothes, electronics, shoes, appliances, etc from overseas, but it's bad to buy

a foreign car, right? Fuck that! I'm buying the best car for me, which is usually a reliable Japanese vehicle that isn't a piece of shit nor a gas guzzler.

[JVS]

62. The cries of the hungry children of the laid off humscalade workers are on your conscience.

[Romulox]

67. What makes you a "progressive", to mock poverty like that?

:wtf:

[JVS]

68. Auto workers did nothing when half my friends' fathers were unemployed because their companies...

wanted cheap Japanese steel. Chickens come back home to roost.

[Romulox]

72. This is so bizarre as to escape words. You are a *REVENGE* based "progressive"?

And your "revenge" is gloating at impoverished children? Again, what makes you a "progressive"? Do you marry some platitudes about environmentalism to your hard right economic ideology?

[JVS]

73. My political ideology is not based completely around automobile companies.

[Romulox]

76. Attacking manufacturing workers is a personal, recurring issue for you.

A significant part of your ideology obviously *is* based around this strange revenge fantasy that you describe.

I hope your Hyundai brings you piece of mind. Most people find revenge, once achieved, to be quite hollow. :shrug:

[JVS]

78. No it isn't. You just can't seem to see beyond the fact that the importance of US auto companies...

is limited.

[Romulox]

80. I'm not worried about "companies"; I'm worried about WORKERS.

Perhaps you can begin to understand this after you're finished being angry. I doubt it though.

[JVS]

81. Don't mistake me not caring about the companies they work for with being angry.

[Romulox]

82. I'm basing it on your crass "cries of hungry children" comments, upthread.

Companies don't have children. Workers do. You've still got time to edit. :hi:

[JVS]

83. How many "hungry children of laid off humscalade workers" are there?

Or is that just making stuff up?

[Romulox]

85. Here's where you start walking that bullshit back, huh?

"Or is that just making stuff up?"

Well, it WAS incoherent, so.... :shrug:

[JVS]

86. So it's coherent when you want to attack me for mocking poverty, but completely incoherent when...

it's time for you to say whether people should continue to purchase a product they don't want at all in order to prevent that poverty.

Or could it be that the mockery was aimed at those who would jump down the throat of the person I was responding to, at those who blame the failings of the company on the consumer?

[JVS]

71. Also, are you saying people should buy humscalades they don't want at all just because someone...

makes them and that someone might have a family?

[Romulox]

74. You are making up words now. How do you expect a person to respond to this bizarre diatribe?

:shrug:

[JVS]

75. You didn't seem to have a problem with the word humscalade when you started chastising me.

So answer the question.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

79. I'm perfectly well hinged.

[DainBramaged]

89. ooohhhh looks like you hooked a big one!!!

:rofl: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[SpartanDem]

70. Who needs Scott Walker when unions have friends like you

[Township75]

96. Like I said, for some reason UAW workers don't need to explain

the foreign electronics, clothes, shoes, etc in their homes that they purchase on an almost daily basis...yet somehow everyone is supposed to buy UAW cars.

Who needs Walker when you got the UAW?

[FLAprogressive]

100. Well in some cases, foreign electronics are the only options. Foreign cars are not the only option.

[Township75]

109. How do you think it got that way?

Because people, including UAW members, decided they didn't give a damn about union jobs and Made In The USA unless it was their job on the line.

[DainBramaged]

88. Yup, you've drunk the japanese marketing kool aid

We can see you support Unions and their workers.....


:rofl: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[FLAprogressive]

91. "Rockin' my Union Yes sticker on my Prius....."

;-)

[DainBramaged]

93. Amazing isn't it?

:hi:

[SpartanDem]

64. Supporting union workers just isn't some theoretical practice

if you post here how much you hate what's being done to unions, but then buy foreign, non union vehicles you're part of problem.

[Bombero1956]

65. I buy American Union Made cars

My current car is a 2006 Mustang GT with 48,000 miles on it. It gets washed 3 times a week and the oil changed ever 3,000 miles whether it has been driven or not. Last week I did the front brakes on it which cost me a total of $48. Take care of your car and it will last much longer and require less service. Too many people expect their cars to last forever and think maintenance is putting gas in it when it's empty.

[RB TexLa]

114. There are many cars made in Europe with union labor.

We are one economy, you know.

[flvegan]

115. I'm sorry, I just can't buy a Chrysler.

Unless it's a truck. Ford and GM? Okay.

Ford? Bring the Focus RS over here and we'll talk. GM? I hate you for not bringing your Vauxhall VXR toys over here, but put a Cadillac CTS-V wagon in my price range and I will scream your name from the mountaintops.