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Do you consider Thomas Drake to be a patriotic American?

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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 07:22 PM
Original message
Poll question: Do you consider Thomas Drake to be a patriotic American?
Edited on Sun May-22-11 07:27 PM by Electric Monk
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Just more proof
That the "change" Obama campaigned on was his own bait-and-switch.
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CelticThunder Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obama does the Bush admin's dirty work to set the precedent.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. here's context on this from 60 Minutes
http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/05/nsa-whistleblower-tom-drake-talks-espionage-act-911-intelligence-with-60-minutes-thin-thread/

"Thomas Drake worked for the National Security Agency before he was indicted by it. Drake felt that taxpayer money was being misused on unnecessary intelligence, not the information that would lead to the successful capture of terrorists.

While the government says he betrayed his country, Drake, facing 35 years in prison if convicted, says he only pointed out government mismanagement. Drake was imprisoned under the Espionage Act of 1917.

“The entire national security establishment – it was a failure, a fundamental systemic breakdown,” Drake told “60 Minutes”‘ Scott Pelley in his first televised interview."

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R b/c I'd like to see more of what people think about this.
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ElboRuum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Coconut custard please. n/t
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. A patriot is a fool!
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." - Dwight Eisenhower

You measure a democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.- Abbie Hoffman


Blind obedience to authority is the enemy of the truth. - Albert Einstein

Become an internationalist and learn to respect all life. Make war on machines. And in particular the sterile machines of corporate death and the robots that guard them. -Abbie Hoffman

That worst outcrop of herd life, the military system, which I abhor . . . This plague-spot of civilization ought to be abolished with all possible speed. Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism–how passionately I hate them! – Albert Einstein

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Never was a patriot yet, but was a fool. – John Dryden

A patriot is a fool in ev’ry age. – Alexander Pope.

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. – Samuel Johnson

In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first. – Ambrose Bierce

Patriotism is as fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone, and irrational as a headless hen. – Ambrose Bierce

That pernicious sentiment, “Our country, right or wrong.” – James Russell Lowell

“My country right or wrong” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother drunk or sober.” – G. K. Chesterton

Patriotism which has the quality of intoxication is a danger not only to its native land but to the world, and “My country never wrong” is an even more dangerous maxim than “My country, right or wrong.” – Bertrand Russell

Patrioism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. – George Bernard Shaw

You’ll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is an ephemeral motive that scarcely ever outlasts the particular threat to society that aroused it. – Denis Diderot

To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography. – George Santayana

The Athenian democracy suffered much from that narrowness of patriotism which is the ruin of all nations. – H.G. Wells

Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. “Patriotism” is its cult. . . . Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one’s country which is not part of one’s love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship. – Erich Fromm

One of the great attractions of patriotism–it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat, Bully and cheat, what’s more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous. – Aldous Huxley

Many studies have discovered a close link between prejudice and “patriotism” . . . Extreme bigots are almost always super-patriots – Gordon Allport

It seems like the less a statesman amounts to, the more he loves the flag. – Elbert Hubband

Patriotism varies, from a noble devotion to a moral lunacy. – William Inge

Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority. – Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions. – Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism corrupts history. – Goethe

Into the cultural and technological system of the modern world, the patriotic spirit fits like dust in the eyes and sand in the bearings. Its net contribution to the outcome is obscuration, distrust, and retardation at every point where it touches the fortunes of modern mankind. – Thorstein Veblen

The standardization of mass-production carries with it a tendency to standardize a mass-mind, producing a willing conformity, not merely to common ways of living, but to common ways of thinking and common valuations. The worst defect of patriotism is its tendency to foster and impose this common mind, and so to stifle the innumerable germs of liberty. – J.A. Hobson

2. Patriotism and War:

At the bottom of all patriotism is war: that is why I am no patriot. – Jules Renard

No other factor in history, not even religion, has produced so many wars as has the clash of national egotisms sanctified by the name of patriotism. – Preserved Smith

Naturally the common people don’t want war . . . Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders . . . All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism. – Hermann Goering.


3. Patriotism and Religion:

Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched. – Guy de Maupassant

God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed. – Luis Buñuel

To be patriotic, hate all nations but your own; to be religious, all sects but your own; to be moral, all pretenses but your own. – Lionel Strachey

When a dog barks at the moon, then it is religion; but when he barks at strangers, it is patriotism! – David Starr Jordan

4. The American Syndrome:

If you have a weak candidate and a weak platform, wrap yourself up in the American flag and talk about the Constitution. – Matt Quay

How much longer are we going to think it necessary to be “American” before (or in contradistinction to) being cultivated, being enlightened, being humane, & having the same intellectual discipline as other civilized countries? It is really too easy a disguise for our shortcomings to dress them up as a form of patriotism. – Edith Wharton

The 100 percent American is 99 percent an idiot. – George Bernard Shaw

Treason is in the air around us everywhere. It goes by the name of patriotism. – Thomas Corwin
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Quite a collection of quotes you have there.
Thanks.

I suspect that the OP used the word "patriot" simply to be brief in conveying the idea that Drake is working for the good of America, not against the country's best interests.


But yes, the word gives me the creeps whenever it is used in earnest to elevate one nation's people over another. The "pat" stands for pater, as in patriarchy, and the mind-set behind it is ethnocentric, which is a very low level of cultural development, where one identifies with the place of one's birth, as if merely being born somewhere is an accomplishment that entitles a person to a sense of superiority. At a higher stage of development, people become "worldcentric" - more identified with the whole of humanity. But as we can see, a large number of Americans are struggling mightily to get past the stage where they won't fall for a bullshit racket called the Patriot Act in the first place.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. I concur
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. No one ever gives the full Decatur quote when they use it
Edited on Mon May-23-11 06:41 AM by hobbit709
the full quote has a different meaning.

'Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong.'
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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
7. Less than 2 votes an hour average. Odd. I guess most don't care. nt
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. democrats don't want this story to make waves
because it's a democratic president who is charging someone with the espionage act when that person gave no secrets to any other nation but, instead, is a whistle-blower from inside the govt that talks about the waste and mismanagement in this cash cow.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. You did a horrible job of introducing the topic.
Give a paragraph, not just links.
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