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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 02:58 PM Original message |
I think some liberals view women as children. |
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1955doubledie (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 03:13 PM Response to Original message |
1. Mmm, I must be getting hungry... |
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kelly1mm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 03:20 PM Response to Original message |
2. Your 2nd example is interesting. Is it rape if a woman has sex with a drunk |
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 04:07 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. There's a level of, for lack of a better word, participation... |
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guitar man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 05:37 PM Response to Reply #4 |
20. I've seen it happen |
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Sen. Walter Sobchak (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 06:09 PM Response to Reply #20 |
93. sufficient cocaine can do that |
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WingDinger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 05:46 PM Response to Reply #4 |
21. Roofies dont make you pass out, nor does 4 loco. |
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Crunchy Frog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:44 PM Response to Reply #4 |
52. It is possible for a man's physiology to act without the participation |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:47 PM Response to Reply #52 |
54. Yes. Many men are sometimes "functional" when they are asleep. nt |
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blondeatlast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 03:41 PM Response to Original message |
3. So society has no duty to protect those under mental impairment? |
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Shandris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 05:12 PM Response to Reply #3 |
11. They can legally waive Miranda, can't they? (n/t) |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 05:17 PM Response to Reply #3 |
13. DU is difficult today. nt |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 05:19 PM Response to Reply #3 |
14. I am having a hard time posting today. |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 04:15 PM Response to Original message |
5. 2nd example is wrong imo. Drunk people (men/women)are unable to legally consent to anything. |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 04:23 PM Response to Reply #5 |
6. let's see if this one shows in "my du" or if replying to bug reply doesn't |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 05:21 PM Response to Reply #6 |
15. No doubt, something is wrong today. nt |
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TexasObserver (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 04:30 PM Response to Reply #5 |
8. So, according to you, when two drunk adults have sex they're both rapists? |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 05:15 PM Response to Reply #8 |
12. Yes. It may seem odd, but yes. Being intoxicated means they cannot give legal consent. |
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Xicano (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 08:45 PM Response to Reply #12 |
28. I would ask: To what law do you refer to? |
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lonestarnot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:13 PM Response to Reply #28 |
36. Prollee to the one that voids any contracted signed while under the influence. |
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TexasObserver (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:20 PM Response to Reply #12 |
37. Then you should be able to cite the statute which makes it so. |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:19 PM Response to Reply #37 |
47. I'm not an attorney. Maybe you could contact one to find the specific law? |
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TexasObserver (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:34 PM Response to Reply #47 |
50. When an adult couple is arrested for raping each other, it will be a first. |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:41 PM Response to Reply #50 |
51. I doubt it would happen, a lawsuit like that, but it could. |
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TexasObserver (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:54 PM Response to Reply #51 |
56. We're talking about criminal cases, not civil lawsuits. |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:56 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. Drunk people (men/women)are unable to legally consent to anything. |
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TexasObserver (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:16 PM Response to Reply #57 |
62. That is simply incorrect. |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:21 PM Response to Reply #62 |
64. A point of clarity: |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:25 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. Can't sign a consent to surgery either. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:22 PM Response to Reply #62 |
65. Deleted sub-thread |
guitar man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 08:56 AM Response to Reply #50 |
70. Every week, every night, all over America, drunk adults have consensual sex. |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:50 PM Response to Reply #70 |
78. Well bully for your parents. Of course we do. Just need to be careful |
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TheKentuckian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 06:12 PM Response to Reply #47 |
94. I think you have a skewed interpretation that should be rebuked. |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 07:30 PM Response to Reply #94 |
98. Have you ever driven and come across a stop sign and no cars around? |
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The Straight Story (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 04:55 PM Response to Reply #5 |
10. Does that include a sobriety test? |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 05:25 PM Response to Reply #5 |
16. Drunk is not safe to drive, inebriated is not safe to walk. |
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Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 04:23 PM Response to Original message |
7. I do. The ones under 18, at any rate. nt |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 05:26 PM Response to Reply #7 |
17. I call them girls, as opposed to women, but I do appreciate a smart ass. ;) nt |
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Warren DeMontague (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 04:53 PM Response to Original message |
9. Oh, boy. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 05:29 PM Response to Reply #9 |
19. My wife and sometimes share a bottle of wine and have fun. |
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blondeatlast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 06:04 PM Response to Reply #19 |
22. Between committed partners I can see some degree of implied consent (morally as well as legally). |
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apocalypsehow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 07:04 PM Response to Reply #9 |
24. Yep - 99% of the student body, male & female, at my alma mater, for starters. n/t. |
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LanternWaste (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 05:29 PM Response to Original message |
18. I imagine we often infer only those things that validate our opinions... |
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Liquorice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 07:00 PM Response to Original message |
23. When you say "some liberals," do you mean some liberal men or are women included? It's not |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 08:44 PM Response to Reply #23 |
27. Are you saying some people feel mocking men is more OK because men are the cause of |
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Liquorice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:01 PM Response to Reply #27 |
31. No I'm not saying that. I'm saying that men are the aggressors in most |
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Nikia (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 08:26 PM Response to Original message |
25. Some men use alcohol as a rape drug |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 08:50 PM Response to Reply #25 |
30. I feel like I am still in control of my sexuality when I drink. |
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Hello_Kitty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:51 PM Response to Reply #30 |
43. Your experience isn't universally applicable. eom |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:56 PM Response to Reply #43 |
44. You make a good point. Some humans may have a will which is easily conquered by alcohol, but |
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Hello_Kitty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:16 PM Response to Reply #44 |
46. I'm not really liking your rhetoric here. eom |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:27 PM Response to Reply #46 |
49. I am trying to clearly state my interpretation of the replies I am reading. |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 08:43 PM Response to Original message |
26. You put both feet in it with your second example. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:24 PM Response to Reply #26 |
38. "If they won't fuck you sober, it's rape." |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:00 PM Response to Reply #38 |
45. Internal consistency would dictate "yes". |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:22 PM Response to Reply #45 |
48. Pretty much any rule about human behavior is going to have some weird exceptions, but I think your |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:45 PM Response to Reply #48 |
53. "if neither party regrets the sex, then the sex was not rape." |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:57 PM Response to Reply #53 |
58. Would the caveat have to be applied in reverse? |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:01 PM Response to Reply #58 |
60. You're not talking about a law, |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:52 PM Response to Reply #60 |
67. God dammit, I thought I had a wicked point. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 12:51 AM Response to Reply #53 |
83. If one's spouce gets drunk and has sex with someone outside of the marriage, |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 02:16 PM Response to Reply #83 |
87. Tough to answer based on that small amount of information. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 02:22 PM Response to Reply #87 |
88. I agree human behavior is complex and varied. |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 02:38 PM Response to Reply #88 |
89. It would be easier if people could separate |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 10:53 AM Response to Reply #53 |
109. A person has the right to say no at any point... except afterwards. n/t |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:04 PM Response to Reply #45 |
61. I am in agreement with you here. |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:16 PM Response to Reply #61 |
63. Well, in order, thank you, and you're welcome. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 01:13 PM Response to Reply #26 |
86. How is she to know that I wouldn't have sex with her if I was sober? n/t |
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bettyellen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 08:46 PM Response to Original message |
29. I think guys just have a sicker sense of humor about castration but also rape etc... I don;t think |
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Liquorice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:08 PM Response to Reply #29 |
32. I agree. nt |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:11 PM Response to Reply #29 |
33. I don't think more women should be prosicuted for rape, I just don't think drunk sex |
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Lucian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:13 PM Response to Original message |
34. So when a drunk man and woman have sex... |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:28 PM Response to Reply #34 |
40. I think each situation is different. In some situations, neither of them are rapists. nt |
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undeterred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:13 PM Response to Original message |
35. I think Bill Maher is a sexist pig. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:26 PM Response to Reply #35 |
39. Some of his jokes about women don't seem like jokes. |
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undeterred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:50 PM Response to Reply #39 |
42. He truly seems to believe that all women exist for the purpose |
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Skittles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 09:47 PM Response to Reply #35 |
41. he is absolutely disgusting |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 10:53 PM Response to Original message |
55. You just HAD to dig up this topic, didn't you? |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 01:11 AM Response to Reply #55 |
69. I think this tread has been mostly constructive, and many of the replies have been |
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HEyHEY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-13-10 11:01 PM Response to Original message |
59. I'm sorry, I'm trying to understand this... |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 01:10 AM Response to Reply #59 |
68. I don't think women always stick together. I don't see a lot of |
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Jim__ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 09:08 AM Response to Original message |
71. How do you think conservatives view women? |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 09:26 AM Response to Reply #71 |
72. I think many conservatives view women as designed by God to be inferior. |
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Jim__ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:09 AM Response to Reply #72 |
73. I'm not clear on how your observation pertains to liberals, as liberals. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:47 AM Response to Reply #73 |
75. I grew up Roman Catholic, so that is the religous group I pick on the most. |
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okieinpain (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:20 AM Response to Original message |
74. "thoughtful", now that's funny.... n/t. |
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lightningandsnow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 10:56 AM Response to Original message |
76. No. Regardless of gender, you cannot properly consent if you're impaired by drugs or alcohol. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 11:30 AM Response to Reply #76 |
77. My wife and I sometimes have some drinks and then have some fun. |
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snooper2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 12:51 PM Response to Original message |
79. you ain't got no pancake mix |
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ChairmanAgnostic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 01:04 PM Response to Original message |
80. Especially those under 18. |
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caty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-14-10 05:39 PM Response to Original message |
81. After many years |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 12:42 AM Response to Reply #81 |
82. "Instead of using differences as weapons, we should use them to help each other." |
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DirkGently (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 05:53 PM Response to Reply #81 |
91. Nice. Can we not want to "take care" of each other without implying diminution? |
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ismnotwasm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 01:26 AM Response to Original message |
84. Here you go |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 01:13 PM Response to Reply #84 |
85. I am hoping to take a women's study course at my university. |
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DirkGently (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 05:34 PM Response to Original message |
90. I disagree for the most part. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 06:29 PM Response to Reply #90 |
95. Not all sex is male + female. Some is male + male, or female + female, etc. |
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DirkGently (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 07:25 PM Response to Reply #95 |
97. Don't disagree with that. But male + female + booze = more threat to the woman. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 08:03 PM Response to Reply #97 |
100. Are you saying women are intellectually inferior to men? nt |
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DirkGently (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 11:13 PM Response to Reply #100 |
101. What does intellectual capacity have to do with rape? |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 11:30 AM Response to Reply #101 |
110. The ability to consent comes from the mind. nt |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 05:59 PM Response to Original message |
92. These neat reversals never work for me. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 06:50 PM Response to Reply #92 |
96. I am not reversing anything other than the opinion men are intellectually superior to women. nt |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 07:49 PM Response to Reply #96 |
99. No, you are using "reversal" as a test of gender bias. |
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DirkGently (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 11:35 PM Response to Reply #99 |
103. Yes. Moreover, equality is not sameness. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 12:01 AM Response to Reply #99 |
106. There is nothing in our culture and there is nothing in a women's physiology which makes her |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 10:27 AM Response to Reply #106 |
107. "less competent than men" -- of course not. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 11:45 PM Response to Reply #107 |
111. You have not seen the claim, if she's drunk, it's rape? |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-16-10 10:51 AM Response to Reply #99 |
108. If the genders are not interchangeable, they are not equal. |
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DirkGently (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 11:30 PM Response to Reply #96 |
102. The poster is correct. No neat reversal is possible here. Rape is not an intellectual contest. |
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ZombieHorde (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 11:49 PM Response to Reply #102 |
104. Your edit is what I am talking about. We both seem to agree on this subject. |
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DirkGently (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-15-10 11:55 PM Response to Reply #104 |
105. Sorry, maybe I missed the point at the jump. I wouldn't assume sex with a drunken woman must be rape |
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