Just to be clear. The Democrats that I have defended, voted for, worked for,

[Horse with no Name]

and donated money to stood for the things that Democrats before us accomplished.

Things like:

8-hour workday

Social Security

Minimum Wage law

G.I. Bill of Rights

Marshall Plan

NATO

Peace Corps

Medicare

Medicaid

Operation Head Start

Civil Rights Act of 1964

Voting Rights Act of 1965

Water Quality Act

First Man on the Moon

Women's Suffrage Amendment

Worker's Compensation Act

Unemployment Compensation Act

Rural Electrification Act

FDIC

Securities and Exchange Act

Guaranteed Student Loan Program

FMLA

School Lunch Program

Motor Voter Act

Davis-Bacon Act

Yes, these are ACCOMPLISHMENTS that benefited the common person in this country. The ones that ELECTED Democrats fought for and achieved.

I am hereby drawing my line in the sand that ANY Democrat that seeks to dismantle, change, or otherwise corrupt the work that REAL Democrats before them achieved...will NOT get my vote.

I don't care how high of an office they are.

We have never been the party of tearing down...we have always been the party of building.

If you...as an elected Democrat feel the need to tear down rock solid Democratic values, please do us ALL a favor and cross the aisle and join your brethren who ONLY believe in the betterment of the corporations and give US our fucking party back so we can get the real work done and HELP...not HURT.

[Snotcicles]

1. Compelled 2 kick. nt

[Vincardog]

26. Horse with no Name speaks for ME

[JDPriestly]

2. K&R

Unfortunately, I also supported Clinton with his NAFTA and destruction of the New Deal regulations on banking and gambling.

Thank God for the internet. Now I know better.

Obama needs to think about whether he will be able to win the next election if he fritters away still more American jobs by entering into additional trade agreements.

The declaration in this OP is perfect to start a reform movement within the Democratic Party.

We cannot fund a healthy society if we spend all our money building factories in China. Bring the money home. A lot of it is pension funds of American workers. Bring it home.

And while we are at it, bring our boys and girls in uniform home and give them real jobs here in America.

[juajen]

34. There don't appear to be any "real" jobs left. That's the rub with

dismantling our army. Where we gonna put those soldiers that we recruited all through the Bush years?

[maddiemom]

47. Real Jobs

Repairing our infrastructure would be a start.

[FreakinDJ]

3. +1000

[Bryn]

4. "...give us our fucking party back..."

Sooooo true! Love it! :hi:

K&R

[Old Codger]

5. Personally

If they allow any sort of decrease in social security or medicare I am through with any of it.At that point I quit, resign, retire. I has been becoming clearer and clearer that the differences between the parties are becoming quite hard to define.We are in dire need of a viable third party to, if nothing else, force them back to the principles that were the foundation of the democratic party.

[loyalsister]

6. Women's Suffrage?

The Democratic party was very different before 1920. I enjoy pointing out to republicans that a group of republican women were arrested for protesting outside the WH. The southern Democrats mostly thought women should be submissive "ladies."
When Nixon was running, southern Democrats were convinced to join the Republican party in response to the civil rights movement- which a number of Democrats opposed. The parties have changed considerably over time.
The Democratic leadership of the 1960s began to resemble my values more. The parties have changed with culture and in recent times they have driven culture wars to which they can respond. It started with the social issues and continued with the polluted partisanship we have today.
The MO is: Sponsor legislation to start a public argument that reflects regional culture. Many many people who develop strong opinions about these things are not affected by them.
Corporate influences where they contribute to both parties to hedge their bets have limited the "drink their whisky, smoke their cigars, and vote against them" integrity that used to exist.
The health care legislation threw Republicans for a loop. They were afraid that Howard Dean might be right. I can't remember the exact wording, but he pointed out that different races in the south shared a need for health care. That is the republicans worst nightmare. So, they bring in the insurance army and all the propaganda money can buy. How can the Democrats compete against the entire insurance industry without resources to combat the ads, etc?
We can't deny history. The parties have changed and evolved. Democrats have been consistent on labor issues and less consistent in other areas. We are all doing our best in a world that changed pretty significantly and very quickly in the 90s.
I'm not a fan of capitulations I see, but the corporate and moneyed influences are facts of life to which Democrats can simply respond and lose or join and compromise. Without the cynical manipulations, I think it takes a long time to get back on track.

[sulphurdunn]

58. What you have proposed

is a recipe for a de facto one party state. There is no "getting back on track" from something like that. It is better to fight and lose than capitulate and then negotiate from a position of weakness with people disinclined to negotiate at all.

[loyalsister]

66. Who loses?

Fighting and losing has more damaging effects on some than others. In fact, doesn't that lead exactly to what you don't? I have been involved in legislative negotiations at a state level. As I was representing people other than myself, I found it unacceptable to not get what actually allowed people to survive under an all or nothing principle that would not bring us any closer to the desired results.

[sulphurdunn]

67. That's exactly why

things are the way they are. Republican don't even negotiate when they're in the minority. The Democrats even withdraw bills if the Republicans so much as threaten a filibuster. When the Republicans are in the majority they just ram their agenda through without a thought to negotiating anything. Democrats go along with the Republican agenda when in the minority and begin negotiating from the middle and move right when they're in the majority. American politics has become a Kabuki Dance, and Wall Street writes the stage directions, becasue it owns the name actors in both parties.

[loyalsister]

68. You didn't address another question

Given the state of campaign financing, how do Democrats even get elected in order to even begin to put forth a progressive agenda without some wall st. money?
The first steps to an ideal health care system would never have happened without some backing or at least not the kind of full on opposition we would have seen otherwise. It's a tiny imperfect step, but at least it is one.
I pointed out in another thread that LBJ essentially sacrificed the south when he signed the civil rights movement. Racists were a huge constituency in the south. The precedent was based on the suffrage movement. Elitist republican women who had driven that movement gravitated toward Democrats when they were finally recognized as a constituency.
I support the fact that Democrats recognize people under attack in the name of opposition to racism, gender issues, GLBT people, and people who are not wealthy as valued constituencies. I understand that many of us are not getting enough support. I just really do not see how we can "negotiate" when there is no massive public outcry to combat the kind of propaganda that is currently a part of political discourse. My belief is that the challenge we should overcome is getting people together without being willing to sacrifice each other. And, getting people to stop voting against their interests.
I find it difficult to believe that this would be "easy or instant" if only.....

[sulphurdunn]

70. Our political system

no longer works for the majority. It exists solely to legitimize and defend the prerogatives and power of wealth. Only massive grassroots organizing and unremitting civil disobedience will rattle the foundation of this corrupt governance.

When the professional political class fears its constituency more than it loves bribery, then it will be time to negotiate. That time is nigh.

This has been a very pleasant and thoughtful discussion. Thank you.

[amborin]

7. K&R

[UrbScotty]

8. We should still vote for them, but ONLY in general elections. They must be PRIMARIED!

Most Democrats (even the centrists) are better than most of the Republican Tea Party.

And, let's face it, for 99.9% of offices across the country, either a Democrat or a Republican will be elected.

BUT there are plenty of people who need to be primaried out of office.

If you're not willing to stand up for the principles of our Party, then you need to be replaced with another Democrat - a progressive Democrat.

Joe Sestak, Bill Halter, and Donna Edwards all challenged incumbent blue dogs. A couple beat blue dog incumbents, and one of them (Edwards) was elected (Sestak would've been elected too if not for the Republican wave).

It can happen.

But it must start with us!

[mod mom]

11. I used to think if we ran a qualified progressive, the Dem Party would play fair....

then I witnessed what they did to former OH SOS/former Judge Jennifer Brunner and realized they want progressives to work for the party but not have a place at the table. :mad:

[Enthusiast]

44. PLUS ONE!

Jennifer Brunner supporter here.

[Sportsguy]

48. Wow, You Nailed It

Sadly.

[SaveAmerica]

51. This is how I feel, too. After so many of us (locally) worked so hard in '08, we now have no voice

[OnyxCollie]

56. Jennifer Brunner was an advocate for fair and accurate elections.

Oh, no. Can't have that.

Here, polish this turd, Lee Fisher.:eyes:

[obxhead]

15. That only gives them permission to move further right. nt

[sabrina 1]

9. K&R

Couldn't agree more ~

[TriMera]

10. K&R. n/t

[Greybnk48]

12. K&R

[defendandprotect]

13. And what are we going to do about those who are a problem?

Unfortunately 20 years ago the Koch Bros FUNDED the DLC in the Democratic

Party -- evidently invited in by Bill Clinton who realized that the unions

wouldn't have enough money to fund the kind of presidential campaign he wanted

to run --

20 years of influence on the party, infiltration of the party, effecting the

agenda, the candidates -- even the presidential choices --

Bill Clinton may have been said to have been our first Koch Bros/DLC candidate --

Gore would have been our second ---

Clinton and Gore were co-founders of the Koch Bros/DLC --

Now what --

What if we have another year or three like we've just had -- we need a Plan B --


Let's get some real democrats to run on the Democratic ticket -- there are tons

of them outside of the party who haven't been pre-bribed and pre-owned by

Koch Bros and other corporations --


For one -- Sen. Bernie Sanders is a better democrat than most Democrats --

he can run on a Democratic ticket --

How about Tom Hayden as VP -- we need two strong anti-war candidates --


We need to turn around this MIC/national security state and two wars -- !!!


10 years into it -- how much longer do you think we have -- our Treasury is being

bankrupted by $1,000 a gallon gasoline in Afghanistan where we're buying it from KBR!!


HELP NEEDS TO ARRIVE FASTER --

WE HAVE GLOBAL WARMING HITTING US HARDER AND HARDER -- WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME!!

[MissDeeds]

22. +1000

"Bernie Sanders is a better Democrat than most Democrats". I could not agree more.

[Lasher]

38. Me too.

I like Al Franken too.

[yardwork]

14. Until we start to insist on values, the corporatists have no reason to back off.

As long as progressives can be bullied, shamed, or frightened into voting for anybody with a D behind their name even if they have failed to live up to Democratic Party principles, then both parties will run further and further to the right. The corporations have no reason to do otherwise. Why should they?

Right now 1% of the nation controls 40% of the wealth and the 99% of the rest of us barely say boo.

[defendandprotect]

29. We have to understand that this is a liberal nation which has been stolen by political violence ..

by the rw --

not only was our president taken but our people's government, as well --

Liberal leadership has been taken out barely before it even rises --

It is much more difficult without leadership -- like Robert Kennedy's, for instance --

for us all to understand where we are -- and what's going on!

This is fascism and we've been living with it for almost 50 years now --

[felix_numinous]

16. K & R

[stockholmer]

17. scratch the murderous NATO from that list, please!

http://www.stopnato.net/

http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/

http://humanrightsgroup.wordpress.com/

http://www.no-to-nato.org/

http://www.stoppanato.se/




NATO Operation Gladio

http://www.buergerwelle.de/pdf/secret_warfare_and_natos_stay_behind_armies.htm

http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/operation-gladio-and-nato-terrorism/

1. Executive Summary

Through NATO, working with various Western European intelligence agencies, the CIA set up a network of stay behind “secret armies” which were responsible for dozens of terrorist atrocities across Western Europe over decades. This report will focus on the stay behind army in Italy, as it is the most documented. Its codename was Operation Gladio, the ‘Sword’.

2. An Overview

The Purpose of the ‘Stay Behind’ Armies

In the early 1950s, the United States began training networks of “stay behind” volunteers in Western Europe, so that in the event of a Soviet invasion, they would “gather intelligence, open escape routes and form resistance movements.” The CIA financed and advised these groups, later working in tandem with western European military intelligence units under the coordination of a NATO committee. In 1990, Italian and Belgian investigators started researching the links between these “stay behind armies” and the occurrence of terrorism in Western Europe for a period of 20 years.<1>

‘Secret Armies’ or Terrorist Groups?

These “stay behind” armies colluded with, funded and often even directed terrorist organizations throughout Europe in what was termed a “strategy of tension” with the aim of preventing a rise of the left in Western European politics. NATO’s “secret armies” engaged in subversive and criminal activities in several countries. In Turkey in 1960, the stay behind army, working with the army, staged a coup d’état and killed Prime Minister Adnan Menderes; in Algeria in 1961, the French stay-behind army staged a coup with the CIA against the French government of Algiers, which ultimately failed; in 1967, the Greek stay-behind army staged a coup and imposed a military dictatorship; in 1971 in Turkey, after a military coup, the stay-behind army engaged in “domestic terror” and killed hundreds; in 1977 in Spain, the stay behind army carried out a massacre in Madrid; in 1980 in Turkey, the head of the stay behind army staged a coup and took power; in 1985 in Belgium, the stay behind attacked and shot shoppers randomly in supermarkets, killing 28; in Switzerland in 1990, the former head of the Swiss stay behind wrote the US Defense Department he would reveal “the whole truth,” and was found the next day stabbed to death with his own bayonet; and in 1995, England revealed that the MI6 and SAS helped set up stay behind armies across Western Europe.<2>

snip

[garthranzz]

18. Recommending and sharing

This is why I was, am and always will be a Democrat.

[Angry Dragon]

19. +1000

[TomClash]

20. It's odd

I read that list and I agree with EVERY accomplishment. It reminds me of why I became a Democrat.

[humbled_opinion]

21. Unfortunately

the cons have managed to hijack the debate and have now made it appear that unfunded liabilities in Medicare and Social Security not to mention a number of other Social safety net programs are the cause of the problem with the debt at a staggering 14 + Trillion and budget defecits for years to come, they have convinced many that the debt is now an existential threat to the nation.

They will now campaign on the lack of leadership by Obama, they will claim that he just wants to keep on adding to the debt without doing any heavy lifting to reform or fix unsustainable social programs.

When we lift our voices to ask for cuts in defense.... they will slam Obama for sending troops into war without paying for their gear....

When we scream for tax increases on the wealthy, they will counter by saying How exactly do tax increases create jobs?


It is Obama's fault, and ours, that we are where we are.

If Obama had kept his promises and got us out of the ill conceived NEO-CON wars or if we would have kept up an anti-war pressure on Obama then we could attack the DOD as the place to get massive cuts but I am afraid that will ring hollow now.

If Obama had not extended the Bush tax cuts and even championed his own tax cuts then we could have been more convincing when we pressured them to force the rich to pay by increasing taxes.

If Obama would have communicated more about job creation then focusing all of his poltical capital on failed Health Care reform then maybe we could defend the fits and starts of slow economic recovery...

but thats what happens when you give up on your principles...instead of communicating and inviting everyone onboard with your principles. Who knows maybe even Obama himself was never truly convinced about his own beliefs or maybe we were hoodwinked....

[MissDeeds]

23. Excellent post, Horse

K&R!

[hulka38]

24. Enthusiastic K&R

[pampango]

25. Excellent list. Agree on all counts. Rec. n/t

[me b zola]

27. k&r

:applause:

[SoapBox]

28. K & R!

[bertman]

30. Well said, Horse with no Name. REC. nt

[russspeakeasy]

31. Thanks horse...well done.

[midnight]

32. K&R

[Mira]

33. Bookmarked and recommended nt

[chill_wind]

35. K & R. It's that clear

and that simple.

[Bluebear]

36. kr!!

[democrank]

37. Well said

Thank you

[OneGrassRoot]

39. K&R n/t

[Corruption Winz]

40. Well said.. Though, I will say...

That I hate that these are considered democratic values. Because, in truth, they aren't. These are values that benefit all Americans. The problem is that some people of a certain ideology don't seem to grasp that.

[Denver Progressive]

41. Here, here

I'll cheers to that my friend:toast:

[PuffedMica]

42. We have to get true Progressives nominated before the General Election arrives

All too often people are faced with the choice of a less than acceptable Democrat running against a completely corrupt Fascist masquerading as a Republican.

Fixing the problems in the legislature starts in the nomination process, not by simply accepting the incumbent as the only candidate.

[PuffedMica]

43. K&R

[woo me with science]

45. Strongly, strongly kicked and recommended. nt

[Hubert Flottz]

46. K&R

:kick:

[aj_cd]

49. I don't understand a lot and

I don't know how to fix this.

But what I do know is simple;
The Democratic party used to be my heros,
Now they are just better than the other choice.

that hurts my heart to say.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

50. +1000!

[Jakes Progress]

52. People who stand for those things are Democrats. All the others

are pretenders. Opportunists. Charlatans out for the buck.

I don't give them money or my time. Not once their real nature is revealed by their actions.


Fool me once . . . .

[GTurck]

53. If most....

if not all DUers started going to local Democratic meetings and started pushing from the bottom we would get somewhere.
I am a precinct chair and election judge and can tell you that only die hards bother to come to meetings so that we are really a clique in our county. Well meaning and committed as we are we need fresh faces - young faces, and new ideas. The Democrats are a top up party while the GOP is a top down party. When their leaders tell a county group to do something they get it done. When our leaders tell us what to do we have a meeting, form a committee, and then argue on whether it will work for us. I prefer the chaos because it is democracy but wish we had new people to argue with.

[OwnedByFerrets]

54. K and R great list

[William769]

55. K&R.

[snagglepuss]

57. Bang on.

:kick:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

59. Amen.

Progress, not regress. :applause:

[southernyankeebelle]

60. I come to the conclusion the congress is bought and paid for by big Corp. The

democrats as you know it are gone. I told a volunteer I would not give them money.

[delunapark]

61. I've been to the desert............

on a horse with no name, it felt good to get out of the rain. Neil Young.

:kick:

[Beavker]

62. There are Repugs that back this stuff

Yet vote for the GOP candidate that votes to kill them every time. They don't even know they are doing it most of the time.

[postatomic]

63. I've grown weary of giving my money and vote

So they can stay in office. But, their behavior is dictated by the media and corporations. It's a simple concept: answer to your electorate. Care for them.

I don't want to continue voting/supporting Democrats only because the alternative is so much worst. That's no reason to support anyone. The line that has divided our two party system is getting fairly blurred.

I'll still vote Democrat. I just wish it was for all the right reasons.

[WillyT]

64. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - HUGE K & R !!!

:applause::applause::applause:

Bravo !!!

:yourock:

:patriot:

:hi:

:kick:

[Raster]

65. Too late to recommend, but I sure as hell can...

:kick:

[jannyk]

69. kick