Our rulers don’t require our existence anymore

[Cyrano]

We are excess baggage to the uber-wealthy, the bankers, and the Wall Street “Masters of the Universe.”

They don’t need our labor. It’s available elsewhere at a cheaper price.

They don’t need us to purchase their goods. On this overpopulated planet, there are billions of customers available elsewhere. We are just taking up space that they can use to further enrich themselves.

They don’t require our existence. Things like Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, veteran’s benefits, education, and so much more, is just money thrown down the sewer as far as they’re concerned.

My point is that those who own our elected officials, the media, and just about everything else, no longer require our existence. Whether we live or die is of no concern to them, as long as there are no bodies piled up in front of their many mansions.

So are we going to just lie down and die? Or are we somehow going to get organized and take back everything that’s been stolen from us? How? I wish I knew. After all, they also own the military, and more importantly, they own those private mercenary companies that they’ve been using in Iraq, Afghanistan, and who knows where else? Face it. Those who rule us are barbarians.

If anyone on DU has an answer to this issue, I’d love to hear it. And if you think my opinions are bullshit, don’t be surprised when those shower heads turn out to be something else.

[Jackpine Radical]

1. The only remaining problem

is how to extract the remaining wealth in the country, including any remaining gold fillings, with minimum inconvenience to the Overlords.

[Demeter]

61. It Logically Follows that the Country Doesn't Need the Obscenely Wealthy

and their lives and fortunes are forfeit.

[think]

68. Agree. Patriotic millionaires should pay their fair share of taxes or get the hell out

and go live in the country where they exploit the people and the land. Millionaires who don't pay their fair share to live here need to leave NOW!

[Demeter]

114. Without the Loot

and with hefty exit fees for the privilege of living here...and no social welfare benefits.

[midnight]

117. Touche!

[area51]

2. True.

The whole reason why we have no right to health care in this country is that we're superfluous to the ruling powers. They let us die as a part of population control.

[Lindsay]

3. To me, the scariest part is

how rapidly this has all come to a head. I know the groundwork was laid decades ago, but now the pieces are falling into place for them at an alarming pace.

[Capitalocracy]

11. It's just come home

This is the same playbook the Chicago Boys have used around the world for decades. The Shock Doctrine describes it very well. Before reading it I learned all about this stuff by moving to another country that was once a U.S. military dictatorship client state, but if you crack that book it's got a lot of information on this.

[Harmony Blue]

4. Maybe

but we can make their existence as miserable as possible as we unite in protest and force gridlock with people hitting the streets! The only way they will reach any understand is through sheer power. The elite believe that might makes right, so we must reverse this onto them!

[Cyrano]

17. "... with people hitting the streets!"

Those words brought to mind the massacre during the Chinese uprising in Tiananmen Square. The most vivid image I can recall is that man with a shopping bag, standing in front of an oncoming tank and not moving. No one knows his name and no one knows what became of him. Nonetheless, he stood there, refusing to move, as the only way he could make a statement, or fight for his freedom. (Some entity really needs to build a monument to him.)

How many of us would stand before an oncoming tank and not move? "Taking to the streets" might just require that kind of courage in today's America. Does anyone doubt that the thugs who own everything wouldn't use "enhanced" force to stop anything that looked like a rebellion?

[BillyJack]

43. It was ALSO very important that the driver of the lead tank wouldn't/didn't

fire on the guy with the lone shopping bag.

There was a connexion there. A human connexion that the guy driving the tank was not very different from the guy with the shopping bag.....or that the guy with the bag could have been/was one of his family/friends/neighbors....perhaps he, in a very real way, WAS someone the tank driver recognized directly....we'll probably never know for sure.

The elite are NOTHING without their military 'enforcers'. Win the 'enforcers' over and the elite hasn't got much, except some fiat dollars and 'mileage points' to EROTICA ISLAND! (yeah) :eyes:

[nxylas]

59. Another difference is that the Chinese know they live in a dictatorship

Aldous Huxley wrote in the introduction to Brave New World that government by the bullet and the bomb is not only morally wrong, but demonstrably inefficient, and that it is far better to persuade people to love their servitude. Too many Americans think they live in the World's Only Free Country to see a Chinese-style or even a Greek-style uprising.

[zeemike]

78. Well I would not be to sure of the outcome if it were Blackwater

driving the tank.
People who go into that line of work are sociopaths who have no compassion for others and like the idea of splattering someones guts all over the road...just as if it were some video game.

[hifiguy]

92. That's why the mercenary forces have been built up

by TPTB. They are no longer sure that the military will gun down their own. They have no doubts whatsoever about the Blackwaters of the world. They will fire up the chain guns and flamethrowers with gleeful abandon in service of their masters.

[bertman]

84. That's precisely the reason the Chinese authorities removed the tank units and

replaced them with units from another region--Mongolia, I believe. That's when the blood started flowing.

[Mnemosyne]

71. That was one of the bravest actions I've ever seen. n/t

[Pharaoh]

81. I think if 100,000 people just parked their cars and walked away in every major capital and

all major interstates for a few days it would make a huge point to the American people that "we" really hold the power.

[OnyxCollie]

39. You might want to read NSPD 51 before you "hit the streets."

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/nspd-51.htm

Watch what happens when the gloves come off.

[Mathias Kohler]

58. What you need

are moments of clarity. We cannot know what they are until they happen and we cannot create them, but we can make them happen by opposing what it happening. A baseball analogy may be appropriate. You can't just decide that you will execute a triple play. The conditions must be right and you and the other players must recognize what is happening. Then it is possible.

I am working in Michigan right now on the Recall of Gov. Rick Snyder campaign. Say it gets on the ballot and all the votes are counted properly and the Democrat wins and the Democrat is a real liberal. At that point the repudiation is complete, it inspires more of the same just like Wisconsin. Too much appears to be the same for many folks to worry themselves, but as more and more people are affected they too will see what needs to be done and then act out of their own self interest. Then we will have a movement.

[cap]

65. Hear, hear

Eom

[barbtries]

66. welcome to DU

and good luck on the recall. :hi:

[OnyxCollie]

74. In 2006, Democrats took back the House and Senate.

In 2008, Democrats controlled the House, the Senate, and the Presidency.

How has it turned out so far?

[demwing]

75. So what's your solution?

Convince everyone to go back to sleep?

[OnyxCollie]

79. They're awake now?

The public is treated like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed bullshit.

The revolution will not be televised.

It might be Tweeted, but thanks to retroactive immunity and blanket warrants (courtesy of then Senator Obama), you can be damn sure it's being monitored.

We're cattle in a pen. We're fucked.

So what's your solution? In detail, please.

[demwing]

105. I don't have a complete solution

But if I did, step #1 would be:

1. Don't let anyone tell you there's no hope. Freedom is an idea, and ideas cannot be killed.

And Step #2 would be:

2. Change is a bottom up process. You have to start somewhere, so start with the lowest, most basic component - you. Be the person you want to see in others.

3. Get pissed off. Fight back. Compliance and defeatism are two different means to the same end...

After that, it absolutely gets more complicated - but guess what?

I may only have those three steps, but I'm already three steps ahead of your defeatist attitude.

[OnyxCollie]

108. Great.

Step One: Repeat quotes from "V for Vendetta" and Gandhi.
Step Two: ???
Step Three: Profit!

Thanks. You've got nothing.

[demwing]

110. I've got more than you.

so where the fuck do you sit?

Oh yeah, on your ass, doing nothing except trying to convince others to join you in despair.

Enjoy your little hell.

[OnyxCollie]

113. Hey, I've got an idea!

Let's get all the kids together and put on a show in the barn. We can raise enough money to save the orphanage!

Or, better yet:

CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN NOW!!1!!

My hell is idiots like you.

[demwing]

116. Here's another step -

3. Get pissed off. Fight back.

Compliance and defeatism are two different means to the same end...

[OnyxCollie]

119. It's easy to be a martyr on the Internets.

If I don't see your self-immolation in protest on the news tonight, I'll know just how dedicated you are.

[demwing]

121. OnyxCollie?

you're on ignore, fyi

[OnyxCollie]

122. Gee, what a loss.

Who else can I get bumper sticker slogans from?

[Mathias Kohler]

133. The way I see it

yesterday in four hours we got about 80 people to stop and sign to recall Rick Snyder, Michigan governor. We were by the side of the road by the Sec of State's office. They all came to us. Everyone said they were just waiting for the opportunity to sign.

We have many allies as was proved by Obama's election when he promised real hope and real change. People want it. Only one tea bagger stopped by and made racist, anti-union and threatening remarks before he fled in the face of our video cameras.

I think the powers that be will continue to overplay their hand and will awaken enough people that the message we have will make sense to them. The fact that we have been fighting the hard right for so long only gives us more credibility when the time comes. This is the American way. The colonists, the North, the labor movement from the Civil War on, the fights against fascism and communism, were all long and difficult.

Hillary was right on at least one idea. Fight on.

Imagine a day when the news reports incorrectly or fails to report what it actually happening, yet everyone knows what is actually happening and everyone has enough at stake. The truth will eventually set us free.

[TBF]

67. Nice scare tactic, but when people have little to lose they aren't going to care

nt

[OnyxCollie]

73. Scare tactic?

It's an executive order that, in the event of an emergency (whatever that emergency may be), the fundamental structure of government changes, making the President a dictator for an indeterminate amount of time.

Didn't you read recently about the Senators who were alarmed that there was a "secret" PATRIOT Act?

Or how about this, from 2007?

DeFazio demands access to classified information
http://blog.oregonlive.com/politics/2007/07/defazio_demands_access_to_clas.html

WASHINGTON -- Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., continued his push to review the classified portion of a White House plan to operate the government after a terrorist attack.

DeFazio and two other key members of the House Homeland Security Committee on Friday wrote a letter to a top Bush administration homeland security official requesting access to the information. The White House refused to provide it to DeFazio last week.

~snip~

DeFazio had requested access to the classified portion after hearing from constituents concerned about a conspiracy. The public portion of the presidential directive lays out general policies for operating the government during a major catastrophe, but it referred to classified portions.

~snip~

According to the letter, White House staff had initially said it would provide the document to Homeland Security Committee staff so DeFazio could review it. But on July 18, White House staff, the congressmen wrote, "informed the committee that the request had been reconsidered and rejected. In fact, the committee staff was told the document is 'close hold,' and 'frankly we are not willing to share it.'"

Go ahead and try to create your own "Arab spring." Don't be surprised when you get your ass handed to you.

[demwing]

76. Again, What is YOUR solution?

Fear? Compliance?

[OnyxCollie]

85. It's too late for solutions.

We crossed the Rubicon in December 2000. There's no going back.

[demwing]

103. unfortunately, I expected as much

you just want to piss on everyone's Cheerios, and have nothing to say, or offer.

[OnyxCollie]

104. Still waiting on your solution, genius.

Should we "hope" for "change?"

[demwing]

106. Read my post #105, Einstein

I have only three steps, but that puts me way ahead of your crap attitude.

[OnyxCollie]

109. I did.

I'm less than impressed.

[demwing]

111. And I'm less than concerned. See ya...

or probably not.

[OnyxCollie]

130. Sarah Palin as President is a scare tactic.

This is a warning.

[CrossChris]

5. I think it goes beyond not needing us. They actively want us to suffer or die.

If we don't die, at least they can profit off of our suffering. A healthy, satisfied peasant is nothing but an obstacle to them.

[Populist_Prole]

7. Sure looks that way doesn't it?

They moved from the "trust us" to "go to hell" in the time it took for the teabaggers to control the GOP.

[earcandle]

53. Unfortunate as this may be, it could be true. Fight back. Watch your back.

[CrispyQ]

98. "They actively want us to suffer or die."

I'm not sure I agree with that, however, I absolutely do believe that they don't give a damn if we suffer or die. The thing that they actively want, though, is everything that we own that has any value, no matter how small. They want it all.

[CrossChris]

125. Talk to some people here on the Gulf Coast. It may or may not change your mind.

I do think that they only want us to suffer to the extent that they can capitalize on it. I don't think they always go out of their way to be cruel, it's just "pragmatism" in a hyper-capitalist system.

[plumbob]

6. They're just stupid, as you would expect people who value little pieces of

paper with numbers on them, or worse, printouts with columns of numbers.

Let's see who they call from China to come unstop their plumbing when shit is running all over their feet in the shower.

Who will clean the surgical suite to make sure that no tiny little germs get in during those expensive life-preserving operations by extremely well-paid surgeons? Those little germs add up to death, no matter the skill at heart repair.

Go ahead and eat that lettuce from Japan, because we don't need ag workers here anymore. They wouldn't export any broadleaf greens that soak cesium up from the soil, right?

Hey, get someone out from India to replace the dimmer switch on the giant chandelier in the entry way and make sure it's the right wattage so that it doesn't overheat and a $10 switch burns the place down.

Long list, and it will take a while. But it will happen. Best thing, I think, is get away from them.

We haven't banked since the late 70s in any form or fashion, just to start.

[BonnieJW]

69. I'm curious.

How do you function without banking? Cash for everything? Pay bills with cash in person? What if it needs to be paid out of town? No savings?

[plumbob]

88. Yes, cash for everything in person. We have no bills out of town.

Our savings is in the form of income-producing properties, which are real tangible property, not pieces of paper subject to devaluation, inflation, or confiscation at the whim of the financial powers.

Banks are just charging you for the use of your own money. This became clear to me after working for banks for 10 years in the late 60s to late 70s, when I decided I would be better off never using their "services." I don't feel I was wrong. We are comfortable and able to travel when we like, where we like.

Most of the complications in life are self-generated, we think, and we give large institutions power over us voluntarily, knowing that even though we will be held to the letter of the law, they are free to change terms anytime they like. So we simply avoid them. Try this for an experiment: however long your last car loan was for - 36 months, 48, whatever, and whatever amount it was - $400, $500, start putting that aside each month (don't worry about savings accounts - at 2-3% per year, $20,000 will only draw 30-50 dollars per month, and that's AFTER you get the full amount in there). Then when you have finished paying yourself for the car, interest included, go and shop for cash for the vehicle you want - you're a sure sale now, not subject to credit approval, and you will find the whole process much more enjoyable. Then start again as soon as you get the vehicle.

The worst that can happen is that you will have an emergency and miss a payment or two, in which case your vehicle will still belong to you, instead of being repossessed, and you will have thousands of dollars to use in case of an emergency. That's a start. You'll like the freedom it gives you. Everything else builds from there. These single-purpose cash accumulations are temporary and use-directed, instead of some aimless "savings", and this short-term usage will give you a lot of freedom. You'll never be upside-down again on a vehicle, and if you want to trade more often, you're free to do so. Love that vehicle and want to keep it an extra year or two? Fine - the consequence is that you'll have even more money to spend on the next one.

Pay yourself - not them.

[nichomachus]

8. Republicans don't care if we die in the streets

Democrats don't care if we die, but want us to do it in private.

[FiveGoodMen]

15. Well said.

And horribly true.

[Raine]

23. Yup and also the Democrats don't want you to suffer

anyone not too much ... but die yeah that's fine, they're good with it.

[Octafish]

9. We need an FDR as much as during the Depression and World War 2.

We need a JFK as much as during the Cuban Missile Crisis and the race to the moon.

If only we controlled the White House, the House and the Senate!

Sarcasm OFF.

Thank you for putting it into words, Cyrano. I agree completely.

[Cyrano]

16. An FDR or JFK would never get to the White House today

It wouldn't be permitted. It would be stopped through vote rigging, character assassination, or actual assassination. "Those who own everything" don't need a pain in the ass in the White House.

[Octafish]

19. May they experience a moment of irony when the words of JFK come true.

"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich."

After experiencing the irony, it will probably hurt.

Did you see this?:

Is Survival Only for The Rich?

They're getting worried. And ready.

[WinkyDink]

26. Well, JFK was assassinated, was he not?

[Cyrano]

27. Exactly, n/t

[Octafish]

38. And so his brother, Robert.

Earlier, Ted barely survived a plane crash.

[CoffeeCat]

47. and you have to wonder if Obama...

...was a sellout liar from the get-go--or if they told him how it would go down, after he
won the election.

I guess it really doesn't matter, because the result is the same. The corporations call
the shots in this country and they own our government.

However, it would be interesting to know just exactly what we're dealing with regarding
Obama.

[Capitalocracy]

10. They're not going to actively kill you.

They don't have to. Poor people food and no access to health care will pretty much lower your lifespan to the point where they can make you work until you die.

[salinen]

12. They control everything

and want us dead. Why should I care about Al queda when my real enemy is in Washington?

[Cyrano]

14. Just some of your enemies are in Washington, salinen

But they are marionettes on strings, bought, paid for and fully controlled. Anyone who thinks the courts dispense justice, the congress enacts laws in our best interests, or the Oval Office is the "seat of power," just doesn't get it. However, you've got to admit that Washington is great for distracting us from the actual puppet masters.

[The2ndWheel]

13. If it was just the uber-wealthy, bankers, and wall street people

it would be easy. Even normal people need other people less and less each day.

In a normal day, how often do you require the direct existence of someone else? Even if you do require such people, I'm sure there are well meaning non-wealthy people out there trying to make that not be a necessity.

The individualization of more and more of life has made it possible to follow your dreams, go down your own path, be the person you wish to be, etc. It also comes with the downside of you as an individual not being necessary to the functioning of mass society.

[Golden Raisin]

18. Yet they still seem to insist

upon the charade of having us turn out in each election cycle to cast our votes. Does it assuage their guilt (if they are even capable of feeling guilt --- which usually requires having a conscience)? Is it a huge "goof" for them --- laughing derisively while watching us pretending that our votes really make a difference, or are even counted accurately?

[Raine]

24. IMO it's a phoney facade to make it all look on the up and up

to give them some "legitimacy". x( They probably laugh themselves sick over how dumb we are and how much smarter they are than us. :argh:

[CoffeeCat]

49. I would say that the laughing stock of Republican...

...presidential candidates is a big sign--that overlords have determined that Obama has been
a friend to the corporations and has earned another four years. Seriously, that cast of
Republican buffons is a laughing stock. Not one serious candidate. It's like they're not
even trying.

So, I'd say--the charade is quite evident.

[ljm2002]

20. We can learn from recent history...

...in the Arab Spring phenomenon: they own the military, until they don't. Sometimes the military will ask the question: "Who am I supposed to work for, the overlords or the people?" and sometimes, they answer, "the people". We saw in Wisconsin, the police and firefighters, who are normally bastions of conservative / Republican voters, decided they'd had enough of the union-bashing and crossed over. We saw it years ago in Seattle, where there were some unlikely alliances between environmentalists and unionists.

It won't be simple, that's for sure. The main obstacles, as I see it, are (a) the amount of disinformation out there, muddling up people's analysis of why we're so f***ed; and (b) the anger, which due to item (a) keeps being misdirected at each other, keeping us Little People fighting among ourselves.

We really have to make efforts to find common ground with other Little People, even when they are of a different way of thinking. Most of us, I think, agree on this: Washington DC politics is a cruel joke. Whether Republican or Democrat, with a few honorable exceptions, our Senators and Representatives serve the wealthy elites, period, end of sentence. Republicans pretend to be on the side of small business; but that is simply not true: they demonstrably serve the interests of big business to the detriment of small business. The Democrats pretend to be for the workers, the poor and the middle class; but again, they demonstrably serve the interests of their corporate sponsors. Just look at the health care bill, which did have some benefit -- but our own side (so-called) betrayed us by not even allowing single-payer advocates a seat at the table, and by dealing away the public option, and of course the eternal cave-ins on women's health (which yes, folks, does include abortions). Oh, and don't forget, that single-payer thing: that would have been a huge boon to small businesses, getting them out from under the burdens of maintaining health coverage for their employees (but all the Republicans were against it); and it would have been a huge boon to workers, freeing them up to work where they wanted (but essentially all the Democrats were against it).

There's your common enemy, right there. Instead of arguing over what the Democrats (good cops) and Republicans (bad cops) want us to be arguing over, we need to be addressing the fact that they are both the enemy of the middle class and the poor, of workers, and of small businesses. They are also massive failures in the areas of vision, of innovation, lacking any serious proposals to address the pressing problems of the day. They are scared sh*tless to propose real change, because their owners like things just the way they are, while our country not to mention our planet careens onwards toward disaster.

/rant

[Cyrano]

21. Great rant, ljm2002

The only thing I would quibble about is which side the military would take. Since Bush/Cheney, the mercenaries that I mentioned in the OP have played a large role in our foreign affairs. Blackwater, now Xe, is still in business and still has contracts with the Obama administration.

Who's to say that they wouldn't be used here at home to prevent any kind of major disruption to the plans of the powers that be? I have no doubt that, if we really tried to raise hell about what's been done to us, these thugs would be used in a heartbeat. Are we prepared for that?

[ljm2002]

36. Yes it's hard to say what might happen...

...if push really comes to shove. My point is, it is not a given that the masters will retain control of the military. You just don't know. Other, worse things could happen too. It's one reason most of us choose to stay with what we have now, for at least we have all made our accommodations and know how to get through the day and stay out of trouble. But then, when conditions become more desperate, the tipping point is a function of how many are desperate and how desperate they are. Once something is set off, it can spark a chain reaction, and these things have a life of their own so who knows what would happen.

Wishing we as a country, and as a world, could all be having a more productive conversation than we are having.

[gkhouston]

22. +1. n/t

[snot]

28. +1!

[KoKo]

32. Great Post...our Firefighters, Police and even our Military are US not Wall St. Types..

or the Top 2% who own it all these days.

When they crush the Middle Class down to Poverty and the Poverty Striken into no hope...then there's the time when we depend on our own.

The Top 2% doesn't own our bodies, our minds or our might.

[Kaleko]

33. Excellent analysis.

And a great read. Wish I could give you a hug.

[amborin]

35. +1

[OneGrassRoot]

56. What ljm2002 said in post#20 and....Starve the Beast....

We need to quit putting ALL efforts into trying to change anything at the national level.

We need to starve the beast:

1. Create our own local economies via worker-owned co-ops which not only generate jobs for people, but they help the community itself.

2. Use local credit unions/community banks, local/regional utility co-ops.

3. Focus on local politics.

4. Focus on efforts locally to revoke the effects of Citizens United (http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news/ci_18323929)

5. Start changing the system itself at a local grassroots level. I personally think it's more effective if done in a somewhat coherent -- rather than fragmented -- fashion. Find models that work and implement them, with flexibility for local strengths/weaknesses, in all cities. Implement systems that have more cooperation, less competition.


This is one of the things I'll be focusing on at Wishadoo! If you're interested in the same, I invite you to join me there, at this GROUP specifically.

[avebury]

82. OneGrassRoot

Do you have any suggestions on how to impact things on a local level when one lives in an ultra red, bible belt buckle, state? People here continue to vote in conservative, religious idealogues into the State Capitol who spend more time trying to legislate their religious and conservative beliefs on the masses instead of trying to actually improve this state, attract new business while retaining existing companies, improve education, etc. (you get the picture). People vote against their economic best interests all the time. I have a minimum of 13 more years before I can even begin to think of retirement so I am stuck here (the 13 years is an over optimistic figure at that). If I could afford to, I would move elsewhere outside the US in a heartbeat. I just feel that there is no hope left for this country and the people. If I had had children, I would have raised them to think globally and go wherever it took to have the best life possible. I would never have encouraged them to stay here.

[yesphan]

96. I understand your frustration avebury

However, there are some things you can get involved in at the local level.
Lobby your city council to allow for backyard chickens. This has been an ongoing discussion that
is getting some traction. I know it may seem like a small silly thing, but one thing leads to
another and it helps to keep those of us that know we have to be here for a while from lighting
ourselves on fire and running down the street. "Think globally, act locally" is really a pretty
good place to start.

Are you familiar with this organization ?

http://www.peacehouseok.org/

It's one of many local grassroots organizations that are working for change. Even in this seemingly
godforsaken hell hole.

Like you (and I live not far from you) I often feel frustrated living here, but there are a lot
of "us" around and many are actively fighting the good fight.

[harun]

99. Well put.

[Useless in FL]

131. +1 (n/t)

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Did not buy it, and should

but the INternational version of TIme Magazine had a story on the end of cheap labor in China. In fact, the next wave of cheap labor is HERE...

Yes kiddies there is a national edition of Time and the International version of the same magazine, and content is not the same.

[cyberpj]

29. What if we didn't need their existence anymore? BARTERING. What if we started bartering with each

other for our needs as much as possible? Our skills, our products, our time? What if We The People got back to learning how to sew clothes, grow maintain and store their own food supplies, build each other's homes, finance each other's loans?

What if we didn't need THEM?

[AmBlue]

31. I grow beans, you grow tomatoes. I sew, you fix my broken faucet.

I've been saying for a long time that we need to be organizing our neighborhoods, block by block. Just in case. Now, that "just in case" part seems terribly naive. Bartering with our neighbors, corralling every possible resource might be the best thing we can do right now.

What can you grow?
What can you fix?
What can you build?
What can you repair?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

37. Look up historic communes. Some of them made excellent products.

I'm thinking of the Oneida community in New York State. They made silverware. Commie silverware which is why it says "Community Plate" on the back!

And Amana, Iowa, made quality appliances.

[OnyxCollie]

40. Oneida flatware is made in China now. nt

[Jester Messiah]

100. Fair enough, but you can't trade chickens for cancer treatements.

Didn't we laugh some dumb republichick off the national stage for such a suggestion? And deservedly so?

[AmBlue]

129. Absolutely! And she was a REALLY dum republichick...

This idea obviously does not solve all, but rather brings together communities to support one another in times of crisis. We have a crisis of leadership on this issue, no doubt... and healthcare is no small issue in desperate need of a solution. I don't have a simple answer for that one. Wish I did.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. I totally agree with you. You know people who think this are considered by some as batshit crazy.

[Hugabear]

34. Indeed, they'd be quite happy if about 1/4 of the population were to just drop dead

And I'm sure that many of them would be perfectly pleased to see all of us keel over. More land, more resources for them.

[Octafish]

42. A *professor!* said '90-percent depopulation' was needed. The audience cheered.

Culling the Herd.

[Blecht]

54. Malware in your link

I'd advise people not to click on it.

[Octafish]

77. Thank you! DU archives to the rescue...

Professor Eric R. Pianka explains:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x835733

More on the story:

http://tech.gaeatimes.com/index.php/archive/scientist-proposes-to-eliminate-90-human-population-receives-a-plaque-and-standing-ovation-meet-dr-doom/

Thanks, again, Blecht!

[OnyxCollie]

41. K&R. nt

[bbgrunt]

44. now we are seeing the real situation. k and r

[Octafish]

45. Their neglect of the MC and Poor reveals their hand. Endless War proves it.

The world's most powerful people are at heart fascists, killing without regard. And lack of health care for all is basically fascist, as thousands a day die without medical care. It should be obvious by now: We the People all are on-track to be their victims in the 21st century Final Solution.

Everybody better wake up. To stop them requires all help available.

[999998th word]

46. I've said this for a while ,got in trouble for it

however,I will continue to vote -reminded of the saying 'you only get to vote for a dictator once'.

If another viable means of shining a light on this stuff comes along it will get my attention.

The phrase used by investment firms "Were concentrating on 'emerging markets'", doublespeak

really means ' We have sucked you dry,and we are moving on'.

No I don't think your opinions are bullshit.

[WillyT]

48. HUGE K & R !!!

:kick:

[snagglepuss]

50. Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of of men will do the most

wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone. M. Keynes

[TorchTheWitch]

51. Of course they need us - to pay the taxes

Without the peasants the nobles would have nothing. What, you think the wealthy and corporations are going to pay all those billions in taxes themselves? Pay the politician's salaries, give up the juicy government contracts, pay for their own wars, use their own kids for cannon fodder, etc.??? Pfffttt... never.

The peasants are necessary, but only to stay just barely alive enough to generate the income of the nobles. We need a Robin Hood.

[earcandle]

52. A lot of those mercenaries are our children who are earning a good living. But they might give it

up if we can offer them the same pay at something else.  And
we can convince them not to shoot us if paid to do so.  Let us
get back in touch with our children before we do anything
else. my 2 cents

[RandomThoughts]

55. Exactly.

That is written in think tank reports. Some believe that the workers are not needed, and the idea in 'death' doctrine is to kill off people, it is not profitable to have the useless eaters.

It does not compute value based on humanity or spark of life, but only based on profit for someone else.

A better system is to create an economic model that works in a world where production is higher then demand. Currently Capitalism fails miserably in that system.

And it also makes sense that if it is attempted to remove people, that would not end till everyone was gone, since it is an ideological argument that does not compute 'numbers' of people, only a value, and with production higher then demand it will always be more efficient to remove people, downward spiral.


Although I think before that would happen, the system would change to destroy methods of production to temporarily halt that effect, although the disasters required to do that would be equally horrific and should be avoided.


Hence why you have seen so much destruction of infrastructure and manufacturing capability, Capitalism requires scarcity, and even if the needs of people can be met, it will try to create hardship for reasons of higher profit. Only demand above production stopped that effect for many years.

[nonperson]

57. "Those who rule us are barbarians."

Answer to this issue:

There is only one way to deal with barbarians.

[jimlup]

60. Thank You So Much!

You have articulated this very nicely. It honestly almost makes me cry when I realize how desperate our situation actually is. And I'm not actually that sentimental.

[avebury]

62. That is so true.

K&R

[Hubert Flottz]

63. K&R

Sad but true.

[Eddie Haskell]

64. Solution

An eye for an eye ... and no exceptions

[Javaman]

70. corporate interests and money have long ago usurped the interests of the citizens.

they is why they label us consumers now.

[Beam Me Up]

72. MY GOD, someone besides me FINALLY noticed: WE HAVE BEEN MADE IRRELEVANT!

I've been saying this for some time now. They don't CARE what we say, think or do. MORE PEOPLE protested against the invasion of Iraq, BEFORE IT HAPPENED, than protested at the HEIGHT of the Vietnam war -- and yet the war went on, AND CONTINUES! The corporations that now OWN the US do not have ANY allegiance to this nation or its people much less its Constitution -- which they have been busily undermining for the past decade and more. They WANT us to be subservient to their rule. AND they control how the votes are tabulated so we'll never KNOW for sure exactly what the outcome of any national election is. It'll just be whatever they say it is -- and it will ALWAYS be the selection of someone they can control.

[deutsey]

80. George Carlin said it all though not many had ears: "They don't give a fuck about you"

Well we know what they (the owners of this country) want. They want more for themselves, and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want – they don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that – that doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people that are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table, and think about how badly they’re getting screwed by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? Obedient workers – Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines, and do that paper work. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime, and vanishing pension that disappear the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your social security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it – they’ll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this place. It’s a big club, and you aint in it. You, and I are not in The Big Club.

By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think, and what to buy.

The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good honest hard working people: white collar, blue collar it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard working people continue (these are people of modest being) – continue to elect these rich douchebags who don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t give a fuck about you – they don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you at all – at all – at all, and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care.

That’s what the owners counted on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white, and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes everyday, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream cause you have to be asleep to believe it.

[JCMach1]

83. If we are hungry then, we should EAT the RICH!

[Veri1138]

86. This Debate Is Now Over.

And it is. This is the way it goes. We have sat around, it seems like forever, covering the same damn corruptions - over and over and over. We know that our government is not our own. We know that America is being looted by corporations and their servants. We know that war is being waged by the rich against the poor; a war they started and they want to finish. We know they have divided us, "Divide et Impera" - Divide and Rule. We also know that their President has declared Libya a "not war" in the style of George Orwell. They support some dictators while trying to remove others.

Our military has become an extension of the corporate state. Our diplomats are shills for corporations. Our Congress members are courted by corporate lobbyists, writing laws to benefit those at the top, in exchange for cash and jobs and future security. The regulators and government agencies designed to secure our safety have been captured - those agencies serve the very corporations that they were supposed to regulate. Presidential elections have become nothing more than reality television - whether it is Obama or Palin. The Supreme Court of The United States has allowed corporations to become 'citizens' with rights - to spend billions on elections to elect their candidates; not your candidates. From K Street to Madison Avenue to Pennsylvania Avenue - their billions of dollars reign supreme over you. From Obama to Palin.

Our land, our industries, our roads, our forests and parks; they are being privatised for the few - in search of profits - at the expense of the many. Corporations are great at making televisions and computers. They exist to do so. However, they are there to rob you when they take over what rightly belongs to the public - energy, water, roads, and parks. Government turns away from The People when government becomes a business; a corporation that exists to serve its few shareholders. No, you are not a shareholder any longer. Imagine the ticker, 'USG' on the NYSE - there you go. Welcome to your future of servitude. By debt, social contract, and private contract. They will be free to break their contract, you will be jailed for breaking yours.

This debate is now over. Time to decide. If you can not remove them through your ballot box...

[OnyxCollie]

87. Welcome to DU! nt.

[BeHereNow]

91. Haven't seen it summed up so well in a long time.

Welcome to DU.
BHN

[Bryn]

93. Thanks for your great post and Welcome to DU

Everything in your post is true. I can't believe this is allowed in the United State of America.

[bertman]

89. A big REC. nt

[OwnedByFerrets]

90. They still need us to give them money to gamble with.....

and to give them that money, the underlings must have jobs....not meaningful or good ones....just enough to eek out a meager living.

[Bryn]

94. K&R

for truth. Hope We The People will finally fight to take back our country.

[RaleighNCDUer]

95. They have showerhead. We have tumbrels.

And there's a shitload more of us than of them.

They forget that.

[Bonhomme Richard]

97. No. They aren't stupid. They know this can't be sustained.

The greedy are only trying to get all they can before the explosion. They think they will get away with the robbery unscathed. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. If they do they will have to go into a very deep hole.
Frankly, as far as I am concerned they are modern day Judases only selling out their nation for a few coins. Traitors of the first order.

[dsharp88]

101. No, no, no. They NEED us to PAY THEIR BILLS. n/t

[Cyrano]

123. They have no bills.

[watrwefitinfor]

102. Organize!

Our only hope.

Though that's about as realistic as the possibility that the Boeing workers now being hired in South Carolina will organize into a union, which is probably the only thing that would save all Boeing workers, and other workers everywhere.

ORGANIZE. Or die.

Wat

[sulphurdunn]

112. Exactly.

Organize and fight for the right and the power to live.

[sulphurdunn]

107. Grass roots organizing to

empower the poor through education and economic assistance using union resources, taking control of the Democratic Party at the local level, massive civil disobedience at the state and national level. Those would be good for starters.

[AnnieK401]

115. It's definitely getting scary

Not sure what the answer is, but I am so happy this website is here. At least people are talking. Some of my FB friends feel the same way. Yes we need to organize and fight this. Just wish I knew exactly how.

[totodeinhere]

118. Sorry, I don't have an answer. But if it is any consolation, I think that your analysis is spot on.

K&R

On edit - too late to recommend but I wish I could.

[pmorlan1]

120. Rally in Washington

You can attend the October 6th rally in Washington

http://october2011.org/node/71

[watrwefitinfor]

127. Way to alienate over half the people in this country who would be on your side.

Why begin your call for a mass movement by calling the president a liar?

How do you make common cause with the masses of people who are needed to make a movement like this work? African-Americans, Latinos, unions. Not to mention all those honest thinking and working and unemployed people, many of whom see the president as the last bulwark against "the machine", albeit a weak and less than perfect one - the only one they have.

http://october2011.org/node/71

HISTORY IS KNOCKING By Kevin Zeese, Margaret Flowers, Tarak Kauff, and Elaine Brower

There comes a time when efforts to avoid the truth begin to fail, when one can no longer go about daily life and pretend that all is okay. If you are like most of us, you are experiencing this.

There comes a time when one can no longer shut out the atrocities of U.S. foreign and military policy: trade agreements that destroy farming; mass unemployment; especially among communities of color; illegal detention and torture; increasing drone attacks resulting in mass civilian deaths; and once again a President who lies the United States into another war for oil and bankers.

(Emphasis added by poster.)

I continue to be amazed at the navel gazing that goes on among the "left" of this country - the needless alienation they create between themselves and the masses of people, and how they then whine about those poor dumb schmucks when the masses don't turn out for their demonstrations. Saw enough of that in the 60s/70s for a lifetime. Did we learn nothing?

Wat

[OnyxCollie]

132. "True believers" will be the death of this country.

How's the (not)war in Libya going?

[Rex]

124. I disagree.

They need us to buy the groceries and pump the gas. They need us to pay the bills (there revenue stream) like cable and electric. They need us to keep buying cigarettes and candy bars.

They need us...and that just DRIVES THEM INSANE.

[Autumn]

135. They only need a few.

The rest of us are excess.

[caseymoz]

126. You're almost right.

What's actually happened is this: technology has made workers superfluous and is making more superfluous by the day. This includes technology that enables companies to coordinate and manage taking whole plants overseas. It's taking place in a wide range of industries.

It's not only shrinking the middle class but it's cutting the bonds between the upper class and the middle and lower classes. Essentially, the wealthy do not need so much labor to gather or support their wealth.

First, you have to convince people that this is what's happening and keep them from going into denial about it. Ultimately, if you're not in the upper one percent, you will become superfluous, except as a guard or soldier, which would put you in the upper five percent.

Second thing people in the disenfranchised classes should do is recognize this: it isn't about jobs anymore. In aggregate, we don't need that much labor or productivity now, and we're going to be needed less and less. In fact, it just spoils the environment that much more. (This is a problem made worse by overpopulation and environmental damage.) With overproduction easy, productivity is now a problem. If you see jobs as the solution now, I believe your eye off the ball. Jobs were always a means to keep your family fed, warm, and comfortable, if not opulently wealthy. They were a way to raise and educate your children and get some degree of health and relaxation throughout your life. However, jobs are not an end to themselves. Yes, there may be exceptions, and of the few people who really do their job out of pure satisfaction should do it.

But the object should no longer be to get jobs or to do more work. As I said, in our despoiled, polluted world, productivity is now part of the problem.

Instead, one should be looking at ways to be supported without jobs. There shouldn't be any onus to not working, or not wanting a job now. Yes, I'm talking about a permanent welfare state where a person is supported in reasonable comfort no matter what. We're able to do it now. I realize that might introduce its own problems. However, the alternative from here is worse. A huge, growing, progressively starving lower class that the wealthy are going to feel less and less commonality with. It will either continue to suffer and starve indefinitely, will die out in misery, or it will rebel and, at best, will implement exactly the welfare state I describe.

Those wanting to change the system should see that as their goal to start. On how to get the wealthy to provide it, that's the part that's really radical and that I won't write here. Sorry, being on a watch list would suck.

[whatchamacallit]

128. Dogs with with the sharpest fangs love a dog eat dog world. K&R n/t

[Zorra]

134. We are anonymous, and we are legion.

Been thinking about this OP a lot the past few days.

It's really true. We are nothing but an annoyance and a possible threat to many of them now.

They could kill most of us off and then use the planet for their own personal plantation paradise.

I don't think that there are any clear answers right now, collectively speaking.

Whatever we do, it will have to come from a place of unity, understanding, resolve, and focused action and purpose. Otherwise. it will be easier for them to kill us off. We will have to non-violently but effectively disable them and possibly restrain them with tough love pretty much before they know what hit them. We'll need to focus on causing as little suffering as possible, and most of all, not allow any ruthless, egotistical, evil self-serving conservative megalomaniac(s) to co-opt the movement.

IMO, it will have to be totally non-violent, and begun by spreading the word through word of mouth and the internet, just like your OP.

I have been telling people who already pretty much understand the problem to get ready, that there is a time coming when as many of us as possible will have to join together in solidarity and engage in direct non-violent action in order to insure our future well-being and the well-being of subsequent generations.

If the plutarchs were wise, (but, historically speaking, they rarely are - very few exceptions),

they would have begun taking benevolent action to circumvent the confiscation of their property and their impending exile from our borders. Instead of taking benevolent measures, they are taking away our freedom, our opportunity, our economic power, and our ability to pursue happiness. Somehow, they never seem to learn; historically, things end up badly for many of them when their fall from good fortune could have been easily avoided through simple kindness and humanity. Instead, they will have to be removed from any position of power and control because they have proven that they are inherently dangerous to all humanity and the planet itself.

One thing that really sucks is that none of us want to spend our time thinking about this kind of shit, about how we are going to have to save ourselves and our planet from a relatively few spoiled greedy sociopathic freaks with lots of toys.

But we have to do what we have to do; and as soon as we know exactly how we have to do it, we will. But what is completely clear is that we are going to have to do something.

For now, we are anonymous, but we are legion. There are a whole lot of us out there, and very, very few of them. We can silently surround them like Custer, but not hurt them.

Prada to nada might be the best thing for them in the long run.

We are anonymous, and we are legion
;-)

[txlibdem]

136. It goes both ways: they don't need us... and we don't need them

We have every thing we need to live free of TPTB. All we need do is kick out the wealthy and their minions and enforcers.

They do not need us, you are 100% right on that. But we have never needed them. We allowed ourselves to be taught that we needed them. That is right up there with Hitler's Big Lie. We don't need them as long as we have enough people ready to work toward ridding ourselves of the leeches who currently control us even as they drain the last drops of our life's blood.