I found out what I owe today. I'm sick and terrified.

[aquart]

I have an unpaid student loan. I am truly irresponsible. This IS on me. That makes it worse.

I can mitigate. I can say I wouldn't have even applied to graduate school if my father hadn't promised to pay every dime of it. Which is true. Or that Columbia pushed me into a loan more beneficial to them than me, which my sister insists is true but I don't know. I have trouble filling out forms. They did it for me. I wasn't formally diagnosed with Adult Attention Deficit Disorder (God, do I hate admitting being defective but that's how bad it is tonight) until nearly 50, in 1995 and I credit Ritalin with the MFA certificate I have somewhere. But one of the weirdnesses is that small, easily-resolved questions can become huge stumbling blocks. I was on Medicaid until I failed to fill out a form correctly.

In 1992, according to the voice on the phone tonight, I signed papers taking out a $20,000 loan. Of which I received $14,000 because they (whoever "they" were) took out "points," but now owe $77,000.

When the loan was half that, my mother took a reverse mortgage on a then highly valued house and offered to pay off the loan and told her brother the lawyer to do what was necessary. He didn't. They won't negotiate student loans and he wanted to use the ADD to declare me some kind of disabled which I still don't believe and neither do most people. So he let it slide until he died.

The woman on the phone tonight wanted my mother to take every dime she has left in her house and pay them. My mom is 90 with stage 4 lymphoma. Of her two surviving daughters, I'm the healthy one. (Also the one unable to wear shoes due to foot surgery...but I can wear Uggs and certain sandals.) My sister is having neck surgery this fall to prevent further degradation of her spine. If it succeeds, she has been promised three months of truly terrible pain. So I can't tell my mother and my sister about this.

That's more than I ever wanted to tell anyone. It leaves out a lot but that's enough poor pitiful me. As frightened as I am, my bum feet are still there, I still have a home, there are still some people I love who love me. I know that makes me one of the lucky ones. But tonight I am so scared. I don't see any way out and if this ever-increasing amount doesn't crush me today, when will it?

[OregonBlue]

1. Wow, that is some very bad news. Sorry, hope you can find a way to make it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. Get a lawyer.

There are people who can, indeed help you.

http://debtor-creditor.lawyers.com/Renegotiating-Student-Loans.html

[Vanje]

3. I can't help. I wish I could

Do you know any bankruptcy lawyers?

[littlewolf]

18. backruptcy will do nothing for student loans ... nt

[trud]

93. does the no bankrupty law apply retroactively?

If no, that may be an option.

I would look at the hardship stuff first, however.

There may be cheap legal aid people who would help and not rip you off.

[liberalhistorian]

113. No, it doesn't apply retroactively and student loans

CANNOT be discharged under bankruptcy, they changed the law on that in 1999. Same with child support and tax liens, those are three debts that debtors will never be able to get rid of in bankruptcy. You can apply for a hardship exception in the case of student loans, but, unfortunately, they are almost never granted.

The only good thing about all of this is that they cannot take anything from your mother at all unless she co-signed the loan. They can "want" her to sell everything she has to pay them all they want, but unless she's a co-signer, tough shit, they cannot get anything from her. If you have a joint account with her, they can take everything in that, but that's about it.

Unfortunately, they CAN take whatever you have on your own, including your house and any and all accounts and assets. Usually, creditors cannot garnish social security and/or retirement monies, but that is not true in the case of student loans, tax liens or child support.

This is why people have to be VERY VERY careful when it comes to student loans, in choosing whether even to take them, which ones to get, and how much. It's up to you to do all the research and figure it out, because student loan companies are in the business to make a profit and they do not and will not have your best interests at heart. There's nothing wrong with businesses making a profit, of course, it just means that people have to be careful and look out for their own interests when dealing with these things.

[SCantiGOP]

102. my wife does this for a living

She's a Legal Aid attorney who helps people with debt and foreclosure issues. She has said that student loans are one thing you cannot get rid of with bankruptcy. I'll ask her if she has any other advice.
You didn't indicate your income; if you are available for Legal Aid get to them right away.

[treestar]

125. Still check. There might be mitigating provisions in that law.

[aquart]

54. My last lawyer croaked.

He was my favorite uncle and one of about three fans of my poetry on the planet. And he helped me and my friends for free.

My circle of acquaintance has narrowed with my increasing poverty and diminishing mobility.

[ixion]

4. sorry to hear, aquart

I went through something similar, although the bill wasn't that high. It really sucks, but it's just money. Don't let it get you down!

:toast:

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

5. You could declare bankruptcy

and then move on. Corporations do that all the time..... :shrug: why not you?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

7. I believe student loans are the only loans that remain after bankruptcy. Someone else please advise

[ScreamingMeemie]

9. If you click on the link I provided above, it tells you how you can

go about bankruptcy with student loans

http://debtor-creditor.lawyers.com/Renegotiating-Student-Loans.html

http://bankruptcy.lawyers.com/consumer-bankruptcy/Student-Loans-In-Bankruptcy.html

[TicketyBoo]

14. Well, that definitely sounds doable

under the circumstances.

Bad feet, ADD and sick family. Sounds like hardship to me.

[mimitabby]

73. that stuff won't help people with defaulted loans and no income

I really want to know what can be done. my son is in the same boat. he works odd jobs, barely enough to pay rent and eat. he doesn't even have enough $$ to maintain a car. His loan just keeps growing and what? if he ever gets a real job, they'll garnishee his wages!

[ScreamingMeemie]

79. Yes it will.

[oldbanjo]

91. Some States don't allow that.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

99. Thank you. nt

[TicketyBoo]

12. Yes, I think that's true.

You can't get out from under student loans with bankruptcy.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

100. Thank you. nt

[kestrel91316]

28. You can't bankrupt out of student loans or medical bills anymore.

All they need to do is fix it so you can't bankrupt out of home mortgages either and they will have us right where they want us.

[quiller4]

108. You can bankrupt out of some student loans and not others-no change on medical bills.

[kestrel91316]

173. Medical bills haven't been bankruptable for several years from what I have heard.

Of course that hasn't changed. And it won't.

[Hosnon]

177. Medical bills are dischargeable. nt.

[kestrel91316]

181. Are you SURE??? I have been in an outrage for years, lol, thinking that

the main cause of bankruptcy in America was something that you still couldn't get out from underneath.

Oy.

[Hosnon]

187. 100% sure. nt.

[Name removed]

183. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalhistorian]

114. Because, unfortunately, student loans are not dischargeable

in bankruptcies most of the time, neither are tax liens and child support.

[lunatica]

159. Bancruptcy does NOT cover student loans

[Sarah Ibarruri]

6. It makes me sick to my stomach that where other advanced nations have free schooling...

We end up owing the powers-that-be who are so F corrupt that it makes me doubly sick, just to get a simple degree. This country has been made so F'd up by Repukes.

[formernaderite]

169. Didn't the OP say he went to Columbia?

or did I misread... I went to state schools and paid my own way through with no loans. And those other advanced nations that offer free schooling... also don't accept most of the students who apply, Universities there are truly for the elite students. The one nice thing about our education system, is there is a college for almost everyone who wants to attend. I do feel bad for the OP's plight, particularly since they've involved an elderly parent.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. ADD is a bitch, I know...

it is also a gift, but it is a bitch...

I wish I could help you there, with more than words of encouragement, and yes colleges take advantage too.

[bigwillq]

10. I second what ScreamingMeemie said.

Get a lawyer. That's really the best advice.

Good luck. :hug:

[nineteen50]

11. If only

it were millions and you were a bank then the fed would spot
you a low to 0 interest loan that you could buy bonds with and
make a nice profit to pay off your debts.

[crim son]

130. Well said, nineteen50. And welcome to DU! n/t

[Samantha]

13. Are there any community services locally that offer legal assistance

to impoverished or disabled people. I think you need some legal counseling at no cost to devise a plan. Sometimes local governments have such agencies, sometimes not.

You do not specify what will happen to your mother's house when she passes on. You did mention the reverse mortgage, and I don't much about those, but whatever has been taken out must be paid back when the owner leaves this earth. If you and your sister inherit the house and you need to live there, you would have to satisfy that debt before you could inherit. So I am not sure if that would mean you would have to sell the house or what, but obviously there is a lot you need to learn about your situation. Before the situation comes to a head and for your own peace of mind, start looking for for a resource that can help you. If you do own your own home and live apart from your mother but owe this substantial debt, you might be forced to sell it to pay that loan.

So hopefully you can get some expert advice. I am sorry I can't give it to you but I am not a lawyer or well-versed in these situations. I just feel a lot of sympathy for your problem and wanted to give you the best advice I could. Good luck to you. Hopefully, you will keep us posted. Also, sometimes law firms take matters on a pro bono basis. The give the work to associates who do the work basically for the experience.

Sam

[pnwmom]

15. Here's a link. Hope there's some info here that helps.

I'm sorry that this can't be eliminated through bankruptcy. They can take any income tax refunds and they can garnish your paycheck -- but they can't take your mother's house.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/default-student-loan-29859.html

[aquart]

42. Thank you.

My appreciation is very real.

[eilen]

97. My mom's SS was garnished for her student loans.

and she is disabled. nt

[sofa king]

154. I looked into this for a friend of mine recently.

The first clue that the debt collector was full of shit was the nice, even sum he chose to go for. A little bit nosing around turned up the fact that the particular loan this fellow had did have a statute of limitations of sorts, and that the University that loaned him the money did not have any documentation to show that they had met their end of the contract.

The university had cynically sold the nonexistent debt to an unscrupulous collector who was simply fishing for suckers. One "send me copies of the documents, with signatures" line was enough to turn the fellow into Mystery the emotional manipulator, promising that my friend's kids would be denied student loans for this. At that point I broke into the conversation laughing (the collector didn't know I was in the car) and said, "yeah, we're going to need a transcript of this conversation, too."

That ended that, though I have implored my friend to demand a response from them in writing. If he does not, someone else will be along soon enough.

I cannot offer specific details, but you should look into whether or not your loan stated a responsibility of the loaner to contact the recipient within a specific time frame. Most entities are not competent enough to keep such paperwork around for the decades it took for them to catch up with you. So make them send you copies of all of the relevant documents, which is entirely within your rights and in fact necessary for any above-board proceedings to continue.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. In the olden days (1960s, early 1970s)

you could get student loans at 2@ interest, and 10% of the principal was forgiven for each year that you taught school, served in the military, served in the Peace Corps, and I forget what else. If you taught in a federally designated poverty area, you could get 100% of your loan forgiven in five years.

One thing the Dems COULD HAVE DONE during the period of their majority is set up a low-interest refinancing program for people burdened with student loans. Would they have taken such a beating in the 2010 elections if they had done something like that?

But I echo what other people said: Get a lawyer who specializes in bankruptcy. S/he may be able to negotiate a deal for you.

[creeksneakers2]

110. The Democrats did quite a lot for student loan debtors.

Borrowers are now eligible for a program called income based repayment. If you are at or below poverty level you pay zero. If you are above, or at 150%, I forget which, you can only be charged 15% of your income that is above the threshold. If you stay in the program for 25 years your remaining balance is forgiven.

I don't know if this will help in the OP's case though, because seeing the age of the loan its probably in default. If you let your loans default you are pretty much out of luck for getting help.

Student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy in cases of hardship, but its very difficult to establish hardship. The bar is very high.

[CountAllVotes]

17. a friend of mine ignored her loans

We were in graduate school together. Prior to this time she'd been in an accident and after she graduated she had brain surgery and claimed she was totally disabled. That did not work for her.

She tried to get the loans dismissed but it was a no go for her being the injury occurred prior to her taking out the loans.

Last I heard, she is now getting some social security (she is 71 now) and they are taking the money out of her SS checks!

I'm so sorry to hear about this.

I know you cannot have student loans dismissed via bankruptcy. You can thank Bill Clinton for doing that to you! :(

Student loans

>>Since 1998, student loan debt has been expressly excluded from being discharged in bankruptcy. It is very difficult and extremely uncommon to receive relief from your student loans while in bankruptcy. In order to have student loans discharged in bankruptcy, your attorney must show that the loan causes an undue hardship on either you or your family. Essentially your bankruptcy attorney needs to show that the cost of the student loans prevents you from providing even a basic standard of living. In Arizona, your Chandler bankruptcy attorney can work with you to establish an undue hardship, if in fact you meet the definition.

more here: http://www.bankruptcyazlaw.com/debts-cannot-be-cleared/

I don't know what to say to you except good luck as you need it! :(

[aquart]

55. I have been threatened with SS garnishment.

But I don't think there would be much trouble proving undue hardship. The thing is, the loan is my ONLY debt. So it wouldn't be about anything but that.

[Gore1FL]

19. First of all get the facts you need

(I first must tell you I am not a lawyer and am not licensed to give out legal advice.)

Step one is call your state bar association and tell them you are interested in a bankruptcy lawyer who is also willing to negotiate with the lender if possible.

Unless your mother cosigned for the loan, she is not responsible for it. It is my understanding that in some states, once she tells them that, they can be fined thousands of dollars (that go into her pocket) if they do so. The lawyer you talk to can go over that with you. You have way more legal rights than you likely know and just as many recourse of action.

It is worth every penny. I am not exactly where you are in 2004, but our stories have some similarities. I am out from under now.

You have to talk to a lawyer. Absolutely call your state bar association. In my state the first visit is next to nothing when you go through them. Obviously, if you retain them, it is going to cost more.

The added benefit is that they don't call you any more. They call the lawyer. The lawyer talks to them. In some states, if they call you after you tell them to call your lawyer, they can be fined (and the money goes into your pocket.)

Don't freak out. Make a phone call to the bar association. Next, make a phone call to the person they recommend. Dealing with something like this without a lawyer is like trying to put out a burning building with a garden hose.

[NJCher]

29. yeah, call in the scum

Dealing with something like this without a lawyer is like trying to put out a burning building with a garden hose.



Yeah, except 98 per cent of lawyers are defective human beings with no souls and not a care in the world but for the easy buck.

Everyone is saying to get a lawyer but with our system, it is damn near impossible to find someone who will work or negotiate for you at a fair price.


Cher

[Gore1FL]

41. That was not my experience

It is why I suggested the state bar association.

I don't think I have seen you since Capitol Grilling!

[hfojvt]

50. I do sorta wonder how a debt situation gets any better

by hiring a $200/hour person.

It is also amazing to me that you can lend somebody a mere $14,000 and get $77,000 back. But I ran a spreadsheet. $20,000 at 8% interest from 1992 becomes $86,314 in 2011 if no payments are made. But 8% is also a crazy high interest rate to pay for this last decade.

[Hosnon]

150. The math isn't that hard (and you created a spreadsheet which calculates

compound interest).

$1,000 is pretty standard for a Chapter 7. Would you rather keep that $1,000 and $50,000 in credit card debt, or lose both?

[vanbean]

84. That has NOT been my experience with lawyers.

[SCantiGOP]

104. Yes, and 98% of people from New Jersey

are assholes. NJCher's comment about lawyers is about as defensible as that statement. Me wife puts in 60 hours a week as a Legal Aid attorney working to help indigent people deal with debt, bankruptcy and foreclosure issues. Two of my best friends are private sector attorney who routinely take cases where they know they won't get paid. Careful with the bigoted generalizations.

[liberalhistorian]

120. Excuse me, but my husband is an attorney and I've worked with

attorneys for over fifteen years and that is complete and total bullshit. Yes, it may be true in the case of corporate and collections attorneys, but not most others. And most do NOT make a whole bunch of money, certainly not if they're in solo or small practice; the overheads of offices is tremendous, people have no clue. And many give up more lucrative possibilities to work in legal aid, public interest and environmental law jobs with quite low pay. Many do what they can pro bono and/or at reduced price, but also have student loans to repay (most of them 100,000 or more), families to feed and support and bills to pay. And the work is far harder than you ever think it is. Most of the ones I know won't demand payment before they see someone, unlike a lot of doctors. My husband had a private practice in a very poor area, because it was so badly needed, but he just couldn't make it after awhile because no one could afford to pay. He had no problem helping them, but he had to eat and keep a roof over his head also.

[NJCher]

133. Excuse me but...

The ninety-eight per cent figure is a reality.

I ran a legal nonprofit for 15 years. I've done pro se work for 20. I've done over 250 cases myself, so I've associated with quite a number of lawyers. Nearly all are cases on behalf of the environment, quiet laws, and for other causes.

So don't tell me about the work. I know full well how much work it is.

A dear friend of many years recently completed law school. Here is what he said about his colleagues: "They are argumentative, aggressive, and very focused on themselves." He said they seemed overly concerned with the kind of money they would make when they graduated. He also found them to be uninteresting people.

The lawyers you're describing are in the two per cent. Finding that two per cent is what will be the problem of the OP. That is my point: that it is very difficult to find such an individual.

You as much as concede my point in your last statement, as you say they can't afford to stay in business.


Cher

[SCantiGOP]

134. my whole point was

that if he goes to a Legal Aid office he will find the good lawyers, and I contend that 2% is an arbitrary and ridulously low figure. My wife has been offered jobs at much higher salaries to work the 'other side', i.e. foreclosing on people, because of how successful she has been at protecting the rights of people with little money and often little education. It takes a lot of will power for her to be polite when she turns them down.
And, most of the leadership of our state Democratic Party, as well as the current occupant of the White House, are lawyers.

[Hosnon]

151. Who the hell works for free?

It's a bad business person who pro bonos himself into the poor house.

In my experience, that 98% figure is b.s. Unless you have some statistic to cite, it's merely your opinion, not reality.

[grasswire]

20. you need some help, chum

You need someone to help you figure this out. They can't make your mother pay them. And if it is a collection agency pressuring you to do that, I would just flat out tell them no.

If you can't afford a lawyer, you can find some low-cost legal help through your local bar association.

[Rabblevox]

21. I am in very much the same boat. I've got very little advice, EXCEPT...

DO NOT LET YOUR MOM MORTGAGE HER HOUSE!

The three things you cannot declare bankruptcy on are student loans and taxes and child support. It MAY be possible to renegotiate the loan terms, but it will not be forgiven unless you are declared permanently and totally disabled. Beware of tax layers, I tried two, shelled out thousands, and got no help at all.

Since you have an MFA, you might qualify for partial forgiveness if you find a teaching job in an impacted community.

I have had to accept the fact that I will never qualify for a loan of any kind again in my life, and never be hired for a job that requires "fiscal responsibility", even though my student loans are my only major unpaid debt.

My heart goes out to you. Hang onto your friends, wake up in the morning and look for something good, and maybe take a perverse pleasure in knowing this insane system is crushing 80% of us, just at different rates. Welcome to the new dark ages.

[aquart]

56. My mom has a reverse mortgage.

There will be almost nothing left but her social security (especially with me as a burden) didn't cover her expenses for the house, heating, water, taxes..

I do not drive. I know that is unbelievable to most of America but I don't. I used to bicycle, walk, or take public transportation everywhere. The foot operations cost me a lot in terms of mobility and muscle tone. I can't carry my bike up and downstairs anymore. Can't ride a bike at all in the footgear I have to wear now. I was actually looking into those teaching possibilities when 9/11 crashed in. Bloomberg froze hiring.

Now I'll be 65 at the end of the month and the nitpicking nothing pre-existing conditions wind around the block.

[applegrove]

22. vibes.

[FirstLight]

23. ...in a very similar dinghy, rowing right there with ya!

I was 22 when I had to go back to school, after being abandoned by my husband (we were both just kids, i know) and having a baby alone.
Since I was on welfare and struggling to do the right thing with school, or not being able to hold jobs when being a mom and student - i spent a good 6 years on welfare & food stamps, and student loans were my tax-free and welfare free way of having disposable income. I admit, i was young and stupid, and the financial aid lady told me more than once to go for the full amount, since "by the time you get done with school, the payments will be EASY..."
student loans pout studded tires on my car for winters, furnished my apt with cheap but okay stuff, and helped me make my son;s early years not so poverty ridden as they could have been.
so it took me 4 years to finish my AA...i got a good job and was okay for a few years...by 2000, the shit had hit the fan. I was really lacking a BA for a real career (which, I have to say i was still trying to figure out)...I had hit 30 and was unable to say I had a grip on how i was going to provide for my son for the rest of his formative years. I tried to go back to school, but the closest university was an hour away, and i was always fighting my parents on the reality of leaving my son in daycare or trying to drive and put myself in jeopardy in bad weather...
so i dropped out after one semester
and then the loan people came calling
my principal was about 17K, over 21K with interest
i was good about filling out the paperwork every year to defer until i could get a grip, which was not forthcoming really, did some temp work, but really struggled...and this time school was not even an option,(no qualification for a loan or a grant at this point) which sucks, because if I had my way i would be in school for life, i love it.

so i stumbled a bit and had another distracting bump in my road of life...ya, don't go there...
fast forward three more years - and I left my abusive ex the day after my 34th bday
with 2 more babies no less
of course since survival had been my life, filling out loan paperwork had not been happening
now i was in default, a whole new ballgame

I called the dept of education, the supposed holder of the loan, who had hired out a nasty credit agency pof course
nope $350/mo min pymt, no ifs ands or butts
i was on welfare and hadn't held a job in years and was in serious therapy for a year just to get stable...
"so what?"they said

I even went so far as to research online and ended up contacting the DOJ about abused women's protections
and that there should be a bill to pardon these kinds of circumstances, or grant women a stay of execution for 3-5 years..
never got a call back never got anywhere but mired in the maze and whatever letters i sent went unanswered, all i ever got was a statement
and a payment return envelope

Now i live with the fact that each year my taxes will be gone to pay the dept of ed
i am supposed to qualify for an EIC, but they take it out of one packet, and put it in the other...right in front of me
sorry for thinking that if i am poor enough to qualify for the EIC, i may just NEED it more than they do.

oh but there's bombs to buy and people to maim
ya, love how that works, don'tcha?

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fasttense]

67. Yeah, we all made the decision to be born into a failing middle class

or poverty.

Crazyjoe thinks that everything that happens to you is your choice. (Better not let those anti-choice crazies hear you say that.)

Yeah, I know I made that decision when my soul was bumping around looking for a fetus. I bet the royals always pat themselves on their silk covered backs for picking such rich parents. And Paris Hilton seems to be so proud of her choice of parents.

By blaming poor people for their own poverty, the rich then have no civil responsibilities. So, nice that some poorer folks give such easy excuses for people who sit around the pool, not working, waiting for their dividend checks to come in. Those rich people by the pool don't even have to defend their uncivil behavior because some poor crazy guy already gave them an out.

[auntAgonist]

70. It sounds like you have nothing nice to say ...

Gotta love it when people have no empathy or caring for others.

aA

[LaurenG]

71. Yes we all make the decisions to get us where we are but having

someone take advantage of us is not something anyone makes a decision about - no one who is going to screw us gives full disclosure in advance and who expects those who manage student loans to be loan sharks?

[FirstLight]

85. no it really isn;t that siumple

lessons come in all forms, and some things look like good options until they turn on you

not asking to be forgiven of all my debts, but a window of time to get ahead, ya

you don't know the details, thanks for sparing the judgement :sarcasm:

and my story was for the OP to see that she was not the only one in a bad way

too many people that have been able to bankrupt out of decisions like buying crap they don;t need
too many bankers and suits being rewarded for shafting the rest of us

and those of us who seek to better our selves or our lot in life are treated just the way you just did to me

[PCIntern]

96. That's a real "nice" thing to say, and it demonstrates a certain Ayn Rand-ish quality...

I can't believe that I'm at DU sometimes...

[Honeycombe8]

124. Crazyjoe speaks truth.

I'll add my voice to yours, despite appearance it gives of being coldhearted. But the truth is:

This second poster above talks about one "problem" after another...problems caused by her own decisions and choices. She takes out a loan, doesn't pay it back, and struggles financially trying to raise a child alone that she decided to have. THEN she gets married again to a n'er-do-well, leaves him (which is good), with the two more children she chose to have. And she's surprised her financial condition got worse???? Really???? With three kids and no good job? And she's surprised that the govt, which gave her money for the purpose of education and earning a living, wants its taxpayers' money back for that loan that she got? Does she forget she got thousands of dollars that weren't hers, and she has to at least make payments on that?

And the OP...leaving out all the stuff that's not related to the loan, basically is saying:
1. As a middle aged person I took out a legal loan
2. I haven't paid one penny on those thousands of dollars I got
3. I am surprised the interest and penalties added up to be so much, after 18 years
4. I am dismayed they want their money back that they gave me!

Reminder that the money that these people got was partly my money, since I've been a taxpayer for decades. And, oh yeah, while they were going to school or having kids or not being gainfully employed, I was working my butt off for decades through miscarriages, bad marriage, mortgage problems, and numerous trials and tribulations THAT WE ALL HAVE. I don't see why someone having "bad feet" has anything to do with their debt that they CHOSE to incur.

Having said all that, I will say that I have two relatives who never paid their student loans off. Nothing ever happened to them about that, except for incessant hounding phone calls to them (and their relatives...incl. me). I don't know if the govt puts a lien on anything, or takes anything way. I haven't heard that. One of my relatives with unpaid student loan still owns her house, so I guess the govt didn't take it.

Also, the phone calls I got for their unpaid student (and other types) loans seemed to be from collection agencies. Those agencies have authority to settle debts for lesser amounts, and they are more than willing to do that, since they get a % of whatever they collect. The thinking is 100% of half of it is a lot better than zero % of all of it.

My unsolicited advice is to take on no debt whatsoever, unless it's absolutely unavoidable. (I also wonder how much the posters are paying for their internet service, when they claim not to have $5 a month to pay on their debts.)

[Call Me Wesley]

142. Wow, just wow.

Did this all came out of the taxes you paid? U mad much?

Education should be free. Here it is. Hello from Europe, btw.

And kudos to ya, great call-out in your last paragraph. You must be so proud to give us all a well needed lecture about your unsolicited advice. Thank you!

[shireen]

148. she took those loans to get an education, a better quality of life

She TRIED to make a better life for herself and her family. Sometimes, plans don't work out and we have a vicious financial system that takes advantage of it.

Government-sponsored student loans should not be profit-making ventures ... maybe minor cost-of-living adjustments could be applied but they should otherwise be 0% interest rate. The REAL investment, the kind that government is best suited to handle, should be in the person who took that loan to get a good job and become a valuable contributor to society. These are intangible benefits, something that greedy bean-counting bankers could not begin to fathom.

[Honeycombe8]

167. Doesn't matter what the loan was for. Could've been for a car. And one poster used it for...

living expenses, not education.

Yes, all education should be free (esp. if your grades are good...it would be a good thing for the country, to educate its citizens). But it's not.

If someone had borrowed $20,000 from you and not paid it back, I don't know that you'd care what they spent it on. And I'm sure you wouldn't think it's mean to ask for it back.

The govt DOES give free money for education....in grants. If you're not poor enough for a grant, or there's not enough grant $$$, you can get a loan.

The govt took that money from me and you. The govt COULD have invested that in something else. Instead, it set that $$ aside to give as loans, charging a low interest rate. So you and I lost money, compared with the interest it COULD have gotten elsewhere, so that someone could get an education and become a gainfully employed and productive citizen.

I feel for their other problems. I really do. I can empathize because I've had a few significant problems myself...well, quite a few, actually, as I'm sure you have. But their other problems are not really related to the loans they took out so many years ago. They're just looking for sympathy and absolution for not paying old debts. I'm saving my sympathy for those who have been paying their bills and debts but have been hit with hard times, like a layoff at age 55, not of their own making.

[kurtzapril4]

162. Amazing, isn't it?

This just floored me:

and student loans were my tax-free and welfare free way of having disposable income.

I never, in my wildest dreams, would have used my student loan monies as disposable income. People who abuse the system like this are the reasons the Repugs are always trying to take away benefits, by holding them up as examples.

[Obamanaut]

185. Crazyjoe speaks truth, and I agree with yours also. nt

[chervilant]

129. Blech...

You're going on my ignore list simply because you are the type of person who would kick a horse when it was down.

[crazyjoe]

139. I do feel for OP, I just pointed out that she got herself into this mess.

The sooner some people stop blaming everyone else for their problems, the sooner they can pick themselves up and make things better in their lives, nobody is going to do it for you. Certainly having a pity party on a blog isn't helping the situation. She is in a real mess, she ignored a bank loan for 18 years, she's a single mom with three kids and an abusive (probably deadbeat)ex. She basically lived off school loans for years, the list goes on. These are all bad decisions she made, and when you continually make bad decisions, this is where you end up. screwed.
Just the facts

[Call Me Wesley]

143. Where do you come from?

Besides, DU isn't a blog, it's a Democratic forum, which you might have missed.

You don't feel a thing for OP.

Have a nice day.

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Honeycombe8]

166. We all have problems and sad stories and physical ailments. None of that means...

None of that means it's okay to borrow money from others and not pay it back.

Abusive husband...she left, so that's good. She was having serious financial trouble, trying to support a child, and when the child starts getting older so that she might be able to get ahead financially and pay her way, she has two more children. So....we are all responsible for our choices, aren't we? It's not like she was paying on the loan and had to stop temporarily because of hard times, right? She hadn't paid on it ever.

Kids are great. If she raises them right, they will be a source of happiness and will take care of her in her senior years. But having 2 more kids when you can barely scrape by, and expect other people to pay for your upkeep, including loans and such, is not what being a Democrat is all about.

If she had borrowed that money from you, I doubt you would be as forgiving, esp. since it seems to me that neither the OP nor the second poster ever intended on paying the loans back. They don't seem to have paid even one dollar on their loans.

And the loaner is being mean for asking for it back after decades? Come on...don't you recognize when you're being schmoozed?

[shireen]

174. you're being unnecessarily harsh

A human being reaches out for some emotional support and you put her down.

Like the OP's situation, I believe she's a casualty of a brutal financial system. Yes, she made some bad decisions, we all have. We're not perfect. But your posts seem devoid of empathy and support to help her get through a very difficult time in her life. Is it possible that I'm being, as you say, 'schmoozed?' I'll never know for sure. But I prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt.

For what it's worth, she and the OP have my support and empathy.

[crazyjoe]

184. why don't you step up to the plate then and make some payments for her?

[shireen]

186. clever idea!

:sarcasm:

[SCantiGOP]

105. FirstLight

One suggestion is to structure your withholding tax so you don't get a refund, or get a very small refund, when you file your taxes. Then there won't be nearly as much to garnish.

[geckosfeet]

24. Is bankruptcy and option?

If not - head to one of those credit/debt reconciliation places where they negotiate lower interest and do-able payments over time.

You will probably be paying monthly for the rest of your life but at least they can cap the amount.

[creeksneakers2]

153. When I worked at a large student loan agency

We didn't negotiate. Lenders aren't in a position to negotiate because the Federal Government has extremely strict due diligence regulations. The servicer/lender must follow all those procedures to collect and negotiating isn't on the list. Its a federal program and the rules have to be the same for everybody.

We were instructed not to take calls from debt counselors or those types.

The only negotiation I've ever heard of is when a loan is at the legal department. That's past default but just before garnishment. Garnishment, at least in Pennsylvania is limited to 20% of your pay. You also have to pay for the cost of the garnishment in addition to the 20%. The lawyers would let borrowers go into something called voluntary garnishment, where you'd still have to pay 20%, but you'd be spared paying the cost of the garnishment. That's the only negotiation I heard of there in the five years I was employed.

[TBF]

25. At least you have a house - that is more than many of us have.

I would advise you to talk to a lawyer in your state. Student Loans are one thing you don't get out of paying (even in Texas), but you may be able to work out lower payments or get some sort of forbearance if you are unemployed. But please get a lawyer to at least look at your situation, because answering calls from the sharks at collection companies will upset you (they do that on purpose). Better to communicate in writing and have a lawyer help as much as possible.

My husband and I each owe about the same as you, BTW, and we don't own a house, but he has a good job right now. I finally got everything re-negotiated and spread out so our monthly minimums are lower (you can always send more if you have a good month, but low minimums gives you a safety net so you can at least keep up). I do wish you well with getting it paid off.

[Walk away]

155. Kudos to you for figuring all of that out. I have been there...

and it's a full time job. I hope everything works out and don't feel bad about not having a house. Many of my friends are selling theirs off and renting now. Sometimes it's a better bet. You already have plenty of interest to declare.

[TBF]

170. Thanks for your note -

we are feeling much better now that we got everything worked out (we graduated with both student loans and credit card debt, which is a horrible burden I'd advise anyone against - esp. the credit cards). The collection firms are the worst - the money I've paid a consumer lawyer to help us get everything sorted out was well worth it. Now at least we have savings and are slowly paying everything off so in much better shape.

[Walk away]

178. good for you! nt

[WillyT]

26. (((((((HUGS)))))))

:grouphug:

:pals:

Peace...

[aquart]

49. Thank you.

[kiva]

27. If this are Direct Student Loans, there are some options.

There are a couple of plans based on your income - not a perfect solution, but it brought my payments down from incredibly impossible (I am the poster child for irresponsible student loan borrowing) to doable.

Good luck, aquart, and take care.

[roxiejules]

35. Info for Forgiveness and Repayment

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/student-loan-ranger/2011/06/01/the-student-loan-rangers-mailbag-express-forgiveness-and-repayment

[Travelman]

30. "according to the voice on the phone tonight"

There's your answer. These are debt collectors. They are thugs, plain and simple. Other than the fact that they use a telephone instead of a revolver in a dark alley, there is no difference between them and a mugger.

Debt collectors are paid on a percentage of whatever they bring in, so they'll tell you that you owe a billion dollars if they think that they'll get a cut out of that billion. Sure, there are laws to supposedly prevent this practice, but they're very difficult to enforce even if there was aggressive enforcement, which there isn't.


First things first: GIRD YOUR LOINS! DO NOT let these fuckers rattle you. They're just DYING to get an emotional angle on you. Your mother with cancer is EXACTLY the kind of thing that they're looking for to drive a crowbar into your emotions and make you crack. That's what they're paid to do. Results, payment, settlement at any cost is the name of their game. They get to close the book on you, then they get a fat payment and move on to the next poor schlub out there who can be rattled emotionally with the kind of talk that they put forth.

You may or may not qualify for a disposition of disability that would discharge the loan. That's for pursuit another day. Today (well, tomorrow), call the loan company and find out exactly what the principal and interest are. $77K out of a net $7K loan doesn't sound right at all. Student loan people are REQUIRED to work with you on a payment plan, and my general experience is that people AT THE LOAN COMPANY ITSELF are not too bad to work with. But there's a catch: DO NOT let yourself be routed to the collection agency, which is precisely what is likely to happen if you call either the most recent 800 number they have given you or you enter your loan number when calling some general 800 number. INSIST on talking to someone who is a LOAN OFFICER at the LENDING INSTITUTION and not some collection agency. ASK EVERY PERSON YOU TALK TO IF THEY ARE ACTUALLY PART OF THE LENDING INSTITUTION. They are required to tell you if they are a part of the collection agency, but they will often hide this behind flowry language. They'll say that they're with the "First National Acceptance Corporation," but your lending institution is "First National Bank." Refuse to talk to that person. Tell whoever answers when you get transferred a dozen times (and that WILL happen) that if they do not connect you directly to a loan officer AT YOUR LENDING INSTITUTION, not a collection agent, you will simply default on everything AND sue their pants off under the Fair Credit Collections Act, and you'll own their fucking company by the end of next week. They'll tell you that you have to talk to them, the collection agency. You don't. Refuse to buy their bullshit. You may have to do some sleuthing to find a direct line to someone in an office somewhere, but no matter what, make sure that you talk to the lender, not a collector. At all costs, this is critical: never, ever let a collection agency get inbetween you and your lender.

You have to be tough with these bastards. You have to be ready to threaten to take them to court and you have to be ready to tell them to go fuck themselves. But when you get to someone who has actual authority, you can work out a deal that works for you. You owe them some money. There's no question about that and it's morally wrong to not pay that back. But that doesn't mean that they get to turn your life into misery and extort from you some usurious amount just because they get to toy with your emotions.

Get a real human being, in this country, who will work out a way to re-structure this loan. Set up a plan to pay them what you owe with a reasonable interest rate, and pay it. Then get on with your life without all of this emotional trauma going on. It's only costing you sleep and sanity right now.

[RandomThoughts]

31. I don't owe anything.

I am due.

So how would you think on that?

[trotsky]

76. Cripes that schtick is old.

Please consider some new material.

[CountAllVotes]

39. this is excellent advice from Travelman

I'd suggest printing out what Travelman has taken the time to write and carry it with you. These people are indeed thugs and you want something in writing, not some creep ass call from some thug on the phone!

If all else fails, change your phone #!

I hate to see people go through this kind of thing. It is horrible and stress is a killer! SUE THEM if necessary for failure to notify you of the problems and what they have demanded you do (basically throw a 90 year old woman that is dying out on the street and God only know what about you!). :grr:

I hope the law is changed back to how it once was so that you can declare legitimate bankruptcy to rid yourself of this horrible nightmare and the persons that are indeed HARASSING you!

:hug: :hug: :hug:

Again best of luck to you and I do mean that! :)

:kick:

[aquart]

44. Thank you.

It really was important to be reminded that they don't have the right to scream at me.

[CountAllVotes]

47. No one has the right to scream at you

much less treat you like a piece of garbage. You are a worthy human being that is valuable.

Please remember this and please print out his words and keep them with you and read them when you start feeling low. It will help!

Hang in there and don't give up!

Hopefully the law will be changed back to how it once was.

I knew a man years ago that had borrowed money to go to college and had no intention of paying it back. He filed bankruptcy and had the loan of $2,000.00 dismissed. This was in the late 1970s best I remember.

Did he deserve to have his loans dismissed? Well, I sort of thought not being he had a good job and everything but he decided he'd rather have a bankruptcy on his record than pay the loan. It really used to be that simple!

YES IT WAS!

[calimary]

60. Can't add anything except 100% agreement!

And my sympathies, aquart. Nobody should be put through this kind of abuse. And that's exactly what it sounds like: ABUSE.

:hug:

[creeksneakers2]

160. There is no suit for failure to notify

Student loan servicers send out enough mail to heat your house with. Collectors call constantly. The only way a borrower can escape that is if the lender can't find the borrower. But the borrower would have to make it through skip tracing which includes calling the family (their names and addresses are asked for on the loan application),calling neighbors, landlords, and employers. Addresses are checked from DMV records plus credit checks. If you apply for credit or fail to pay a bill, they get you. The Post Office is also contacted, along with the IRS. It would be almost impossible to escape without somebody telling the borrower they are being sought.

I sympathize with aquart but I don't buy that she was suddenly surprised by her debt. Its possible that collection effort ended years ago, but she knew she had the debt. Could she have thought she'd slipped through the cracks?

If there were no contact ever, it would still be Aquart's fault because she signed a promissory note in which she agreed to always keep her lender appraised of her address and to pay back the money. It makes no difference if nobody asked her for it.

[mistertrickster]

180. You make a good point. When one takes out a 20K dollar loan, one

must assume that the creditor is not just going to forget to collect it.

[XOKCowboy]

45. The only thing I can add is if you can afford it get a lawyer

The last person a collection agency wants to talk to is a lawyer. They want you to get scared and immediately roll over. They're out for the easiest buck they can get and when you retain counsel it immediately puts you way down on their list.

[hfojvt]

53. the loan was $20,000

and at 8% interest since 1992 would be over $80,000 today if nothing was paid. The points should have bought a lower rate, but it may have switched to a default rate if payments were not being made on time.

[eppur_se_muova]

62. Absolutely. This much is true of any debt --

Whatever you do, make sure that your payments, whenever you can make them, go to the original lender or guarantor, and not to a collection agency. You are in no way obligated to keep the bill collectors in business.

[SCantiGOP]

121. you can stop the phone calls

You can google Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, but this Wikipedia link is an easier read than the law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Debt_Collection_Practices_Act You'll note that one of the prohibited activities for third party debt collectors is failure to cease communications when you tell them to in writing. Again, my wife practices law in this field and I have heard horror stories: collectors threatening people with jail, loss of their job, notification to their neighbors and family, etc., all of which is blatantly illegal. You may not be able to get out from under the debt but you can stop the harassment.

[TygrBright]

164. Yes, yes, YES! What you said. Wish I could rec. Aquart, READ TRAVELMAN'S POST! n/t

[Missy Vixen]

165. Travelman, maybe this is a dumb question

Would you be willing to help the OP with this? It sounds like you know what you're doing, and the paralysis of fear will keep the OP stuck. Maybe you all could talk through PM or something.

>But that doesn't mean that they get to turn your life into misery and extort from you some usurious amount just because they get to toy with your emotions.<

Absolutely.

Those who've been the victims of unscrupulous or worse collection agencies are fighting back and winning. I hope the OP will win, too.

[shireen]

175. +1 nt

[jazz78]

32. Have you heard about IBR?

I know what you're feeling. Between us, my husband and I started with more than $125,000 of student loans, and we've never made more than $40,000 a year, so our chances of paying that off are pretty much zilch. However, there is hope, in the form of a relatively new payment option. It's good for both direct and guaranteed (FFEL) student loans, but not for any "private" loans you might have taken out through your bank.

The program you need to look at is called Income-Based Repayment (NOT income "contingent"). Go to www.IBRinfo.org for the full story, but here's the gist: "IBR uses a kind of sliding scale to determine how much you can afford to pay on your federal loans. If you earn below 150% of the poverty level for your family size, your required loan payment will be $0. If you earn more, your loan payment will be capped at 15 percent of whatever you earn above that amount. Except for the highest earners, that usually works out to less than 10 percent of your total income."

This could potentially bring your payments down to zero (ours are $13.00/month right now). And the awesome part? The IBR program forgives your loans after 25 years of payments (not necessarily consecutive), even if your monthly "payment" is zero!

Another great resource on this program is Equal Justice Works information on Student Debt Relief (http://www.equaljusticeworks.org/resources/student-debt-relief). It has calculators, worksheets, podcasts and forums. (I know this site references lawyers and law students a lot, but you don't have to be either one to use this program.)

You may need to do some talking to get into the program, because you're currently in default, but it's definitely worth a look to see if you can make it work.

Good luck, and remember to breathe!

[Raschel]

61. Great info. I didn't know that the loan would be forgiven even at a payment of $0 after 25 years.

I was given erroneous information by one person I talked to on the phone. He told me there was no such thing as a $0 payment amount.

I hung up and called back and got another person who knew what they were doing.

Moral: Keep calling and keep asking questions!

[myrna minx]

75. This is excellent info. Thank you for posting.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[EnviroBat]

78. I went that rout with them, and it doesn't always work in your favor.

they take nothing else into consideration when calculating their "sliding scale" based on your income. Perhaps you've got a shitload of other bills to pay every month. Owning a house is a constant budgetary nightmare. Car loan, mortgage, utilities, and eating generally eat up most of a persons "take home" pay. I say take home because they base their ever so generous scale on your gross monthly income, and we all know that taxes change that picture drastically.

Look, this student loan game is nothing more than an insurance police for the government that you will become an indentured servant to them. That you will own them for most of the remainder of your working years. Until WE as citizens stand up collectively and demand changes through action, this will be the status, and it will only get worse. There needs to be a student loan "revolution" in this country, and it has to start with a giant group of people. I'm not saying that not paying back something on a loan is a good and moral idea, but I personally can't afford 300+ dollars a month on a 47k loan, after I've paid off all the other bills each month to keep a roof over my head. How the fuck can anyone save a dime these days with the draconian bull-shit laws devised to keep us from advancing in any way? Bill Clinton can go fucking rot in hell for his great ideas.

[shireen]

176. +1 nt

[Name removed]

182. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TwilightGardener]

33. Did you ever make payments on this loan? Have you been making

car and house payments all these years, but just ignoring the student loan--or did you manage somehow to have it deferred 16-18 years? Have you ever made arrangements to pay something on it every month? I'm confused as to how the loan ballooned to almost four times the original amount.

[riderinthestorm]

34. No advice. Just a hug and a thread kick for someone else to see and help. So sorry.... nt

[roxiejules]

36. Congress Proposes Relief for Student Loan Borrowers

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/student-loan-ranger/2011/06/22/congress-proposes-relief-for-student-loan-borrowers

Posted: June 22, 2011


Senators Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Al Franken (D-Minn.), and Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) have introduced the Fairness for Struggling Students Act of 2011 in the U.S. Senate. Representatives Steve Cohen (D-Tenn.), Danny Davis (D-Ill.), John Conyers (D-Mich.), and George Miller (D-Calif.) introduced the related Private Student Loan Bankruptcy Fairness Act of 2011 in the House of Representatives. Both bills would restore the ability to discharge commercial student loans in bankruptcy proceedings, reversing a 2005 change to the law for borrowers who find themselves unable to make payments on their loans.

As explained in a press release from Senator Durbin’s office: “Before changes were made to the bankruptcy code in 2005, only government issued or guaranteed student loans were protected during bankruptcy. This protection has been in place since 1978 and was intended to safeguard federal investments in higher education. Today’s bill would restore the bankruptcy law, as it pertains to private student loans, to the language that was in place before 2005, so that privately issued student loans will once again be dischargeable in bankruptcy.”

[aquart]

46. Do government loans take points?

My memory is fuzzy because, for one thing, I wasn't the one who filled out the paperwork. I thought the name was Chase. I was certain there was only one loan at a very low rate of interest. Some years later I got mail that said it was two loans at double the interest I thought I'd signed for. All of which I completely ignored because I was completely confused instead of finding a way to straighten things out.

[EnviroBat]

80. How far do you think the repukes will let this one go?

They are the ones that want the middle-class by the balls, to suffer, to owe. This would not be "good business" in their eyes, and the fucking lending institutions are sending their maggot-shit lobbyists to glad hand anyone trying to pass such legislation.

We should all default on our student loans tomorrow. Just stop paying them anymore. Simply state that your money went to bailing out failing corporations, banks, and investment firms, there's nothing left for my student loans...

[roody]

37. Please don't pay them. They can't make you.

[CountAllVotes]

43. you are right they can not make you pay them

but they can take a lien on a paycheck or Social Security benefits. I know this to be a sad fact as it happened to my friend that just decided to "let it all go".

She has her own problems/mindset that are nothing like the OP's. My friend KNEW exactly what she was doing and kept borrowing more and more money and managed to drag out a 2 year graduate program to about 8 years. Then the sh*t hit the fan and there was no money no job, no nothing but some place wanting the loans repaid.

Her claim of disability was bullsh*t and she knew it. She took out all of those loans with a pre-existing medical condition that was not disabling all of those 12 years she was in college.

As to her status now, I do not know. All I know is they went after her Social Security checks and that was the last time I heard from her. :shrug:

:kick: again ...

[roxiejules]

38. Student Debt Relief

via Equal Justice Works

http://www.equaljusticeworks.org/law-school/student-debt-relief

This section features student debt relief resources including the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Checklist and information on the College Cost Reduction & Access Act of 2007, the Higher Education Reauthorization and College Opportunity Act of 2008, and loan repayment assistance programs.

[EFerrari]

40. No advice, just a hug.

:hug:

[aquart]

48. Much appreciated tonight.

[EFerrari]

52. There's a lot of scarey stuff around here, too.

Damn, who was working security, anyway?

Tell you what. When this is handled, let's go some place nice with a pool and room service. It has to take dogs but otherwise, I'm flexible. :)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

51. You were an adult when you took out the loans; your mother owes them nothing

The people you talked to are what DUer liberalhistorian calls "the collect-trolls." They are one of the lowest forms of life.

Of all the advice on the thread, Travelman seems to have the most knowledge.

Rest assured first of all that they CANNOT go after any of your relatives.

[dorkulon]

57. If it's a collection agency calling, you may be able to pay far less.

A friend of mine had a massive student debt hanging over his head for years, accruing into a much larger number than the original loan. At some point, he simply offered to the collection agent to pay the original amount, and they took it. Something to consider if that's your situation.

[Raschel]

58. You people are the greatest! Lots of good information on here. I hope it helps you, aquart!!

[sudopod]

59. *hug* nt

[akbacchus_BC]

63. Sorry to hear about your challenges, however, can you try to consolidate

all your loans so that you pay only one payment every month. Rather than bankruptcy, which would mess up your credit rating, you should contact your bank for a line of credit and consolidate all your loans!

Just my humble opinion, we can do that here in Canada. Please try.

[Raine]

64. I don't have any advice

but just want to say I wish you well and good luck. :hug

[Behind the Aegis]

65. Hang tight! You are a fighter! Trust me, I know.

I hope things look up for you. Perhaps you could consult a lawyer; there may be options unknown.

:hug:

[malaise]

68. Damn that is stress inducing

Make sure you're exercising because you don't need to get sick over this capitalist mess.

[Dorian Gray]

69. Aquart

talking about it is the first step. Feeling this type of anxiety and pressure is horrible, but being able to open up about it is the first step in finding a solution. I don't have any solutions for you right now, but hopefully some of the other posters here will have ideas. What I do have is empathy and hugs for you. I hope that this all works out for you.

[mimitabby]

72. my son is in the same boat as you

ADD, owes a lot of money on loans.. he didn't even get his master's, so you're ahead. Don't let them bother your mother. let them know she's old and ailing. good luck.

[raccoon]

74. Sorry this is happening to you. Some good advice and info here already.

I second the motion about talking to a lawyer.

:hug: :hi:

[myrna minx]

77. Your personal worth isn't the some total of your debt. You are a valuable

person who deserves a hug, not harassing phone calls. :hug: All of my best to you.

[Generic Other]

81. NEVER let debts wear you down

They can only take what you have (or what you let them take from you), nothing more. They take the money you have to give. You don't have to give them your emotional well-being as well. Ignore the crap.

Also, look into the program that IBR program someone suggested upthread.

And at all costs, keep your sanity and sense of humor. Use DU as a place where you can come to get emotional support.

[jtuck004]

82. Get your mom out of this. Unless she is a cosigner or in some

other way legally liable for your debt, keep her out of the conversation with the bill collectors.

They will bankrupt her, put her on the streets, sell your cousins and their children, ruin you and anyone else they can in pursuit of the payment of the debt. They don't care about anything but that.They damn sure don't care about you.

So unless she is somehow legally responsible (I don't care what she said in the past, it's what she signed, get her out of this). If she did sign it's another story.

(Get an attorney)

I know the temptation to let her do something is strong, because of your feelings, but DO NOT let them hurt her because you somehow feel that helps. It won't, based on my reading of what is above.

That said, 77,000 bucks? Is there really a chance that you can pay this off? Doesn't sound like it, so quit stressing about it. The absolute worst they can do is take your tax return, maybe take part of SSI disability or some other payment you are getting. Whoever up thread suggested you get an attorney is spot on - talk to legal aid, whoever.

(Get an attorney)

Take care of yourself first. You sound like you are worrying over this waaaaaay too much. If you can't pay it, there may not really be much of a threat here. Your credit rating goes down - big deal, a lot of people are going to be living less large than they used to, and our family has been on all cash for several years. In most cases (yours may be different) they can threaten, but unless you ignore court orders or give them some other leverage they would not have had without your help there really isn't much they can do except yell at you on the phone, and try to talk you into ruining your family and friend's finances. An attorney may tell you as much, and might be well worth the peace of mind.

(Check out legal aid, or even the nearest college with a law degree program - there is help somewhere).

[Obamanaut]

83. At any point since making the loan did you know that the loan had not

been paid? That there was a balance outstanding? That your dad had not paid it as was mentioned in the OP?

If any or all these gets a 'yes', is it a surprise that someone wants repayment? I am not suggesting the tactics used are the right ones, but surely there must have been some glimmer that there was a loan somewhere with your name on it.

[hunter]

86. Medical bills taught me not to give a flying fuck about money or credit ratings.

I joke around with bill collectors and remain Pollyanna cheerful. If the collectors themselves hate their jobs but can't quit because otherwise they'd be starving and homeless, then you'll make their wretched workday a little better. If they are truly nasty collection agency thugs then their evil is reflected back on them and you'll almost hear their heads popping. They tend to stop calling you too if they find they can't get under your skin.

If you can't pay, you can't pay, and that's that. No need to torture yourself.

There's a lot of good advice in this thread, except that if I was completely broke I wouldn't be paying a lawyer. There are free resources available.

So maybe I end up homeless someday, in which case I really don't owe anything to the society and economic system that threw me off the bus. Fuck'm.

Barring that I'll muddle through each day paying my debts when I can, but I won't beat myself up when I can't.

The amazing thing about U.S.A. culture is that the wealthy and powerful don't have to torture us to get their way because they've taught us to torture ourselves.

Take care of yourself.

:hug:

[bemildred]

87. Sound advice.

:hi:

[Raschel]

89. Funny that 'In God We Trust' is on money. In the Bible you are supposed to be forgiven ALL debt

after seven years. Because if you can't pay, you can't pay.

So the whole student loan thing, very ungodly. And the interest is pure evil.

[Obamanaut]

98. Some commentaries on the bible explain the forgiveness in the

sabbatical year is not a wiping off of the entire debt, but rather that no payments need to be made during that sabbatical year.

The sabbatical, or seventh, year would not have been the length of time a debt had been owed, but rather a particular time in the procession of things. Recall remember the sabbath day.

For example, if a loan had been made to person A by person B on a specific day, the sabbatical year may have started two days, months, or years after that loan was made. In such a case, the loan to person A would not be wiped off the slate, but rather payments on that loan during the sabbatical (seventh, sabbatical) year would not be necessary (forgiven) by person B - but must be resumed at the start of the eighth year.

[JCMach1]

128. Best advice in this whole thread +1

[aquart]

136. You, too.

And you're right, I can't afford a lawyer.

Except for nights like last night when I feel crushed because I just wasn't feeling well enough to fight, most times it hurts more to know how many other homes are haunted by debt and fear.

A zillion years ago a Queens College professor told me NOT to pay my student loans because America doesn't have debtors prisons. (That wonderfully subversive man later became head of his school.)

[Walk away]

156. I like your attitude!

I worked with a woman who went bankrupt twice! She was the most laid back person I ever met. She didn't do it on purpose...just bad luck. She quit the job several years later after winning $777,000 on a scratch off ticket.

I drive past her house everyday and remind myself to calm down and enjoy life no matter what's in the bank. It's your health and loved ones that count.

[MrMickeysMom]

161. Great...

I agree and offer hugs...


:hug:

[mistertrickster]

88. There's no freaking way that a 14K loan in '92 should have ballooned into

80 grand in less than 20 years.

That's usury.

It should have no more than doubled in that time to maybe 30K.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

90. at 8% and unpaid the $20K loan would be over $80K

so it could have depending on the terms...

sP

[mistertrickster]

140. 8 percent is ridiculous . . . car loans are 3.75 percent nt.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

147. the loan originated in '92...plausible rate then...

and 3.75 is for a collateral based loan to someone with perfect (over 760) credit score most likely...not some college kid with no credit history. Not saying it's right...but probably what it is.

Edit to add...even now some rates are as high as 9+%...Sallie Mae...

sP

[Honeycombe8]

117. There may have been penalties for nonpayment of monthly payments.

That usu. adds quite a lot to unpaid loans and revolving credit...even more than interest.

[trud]

92. I'm not a lawyer, but

I would absolutely not have any of your family members pay a dime on this.

I would first demand a copy of all documentation showing what you owe and what the terms are.

I would be very careful about consulting any attorney, so yu don;t have a repeat of previous problems.

I wonder if the law about bankruptcy not applying to student loans applies to you, since your loan seems to predate that law? If bankruptcy is an option, I would see if it would allow you to keep your house.

[Ready4Change]

94. I wish the company I used to work for was still in business.

They (we) did debt negotiation to help out people who were in what sounds to be your position. As you are right now, both you AND your creditors are in a lose/lose scenario. Your finances are likely to get wiped out along with your creditor rating, and your creditors are likely to get back nothing. Negotiations cold get you out with less damage, and get some portion of what you owe back to your creditors.

Unfortunately, the company I used to work for did a poor job of managing their advertising image, and thus is no more. I wish that weren't so, as we really did work hard to help out both our clients AND their creditors. I don't know the current players in that market, so I can't say who's good and who isn't anymore.

From the sounds of it, your loans have been sold off to one or more collection agencies. There are laws stating what they can/cannot do to collect, but many of them overstep what is allowed and get very aggressive. For instance, calling your relatives to try to get THEM to pay your debt is a big no-no (although, if your mother was involved in the loan at some point, they might have a loop-hole there.) The following page has more info.

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/rebuild/creditorharassment.shtml

Good luck.

[Lisa0825]

135. Credit Info Center is awesome!!!

I used their forums back when I was rebuilding my credit. They ROCK!

[cbdo2007]

95. "It leaves out a lot..." - um, yeah. Like why did you forget about it all these years?

It sounds like you probably never even made one payment on these loans.

Sounds like you'll probably need to declare bankruptcy or start paying. Good luck!

[jazz78]

115. Bankruptcy is generally not an option with student loans

cbdo2007, I'm not in agreement with the people on this post who are advocating that Aquart simply refuse to pay anything on her loan. She made these loan agreements in good faith, and should try to pay. However, sometimes it's just not possible to pay back a debt. That's when bankruptcy protections usually kick in. However, you might want to do some research before you comment on something like this, because it is virtually impossible to discharge student loan debts through bankruptcy. All of those protections that are in place to make sure people don't starve or become homeless because they got sick or (fill in the personal catastrophe of your choice) have been eliminated for student loan debtors. The bankers make out like bandits on student loans, because they're guaranteed by the federal government, and because they have some unbelievable options in how they can get their money. Unlike virtually every other kind of debt collection out there, student loan debts can even be collected by garnishing a debtor's wages without a court order. Check out this article (http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/2009-05-12-studentloans13_N.htm) for a little bit about student loan debts. http://www.studentloanjustice.org is another great site that talks about the lack of consumer protections etc.

[cbdo2007]

126. Thank you for schooling me. I stand corrected.

Not sure why you felt the need to write so much though.

Yeah, I've read the studentloanjustice.org website and it's these same kind of stories. I can feel plenty of sympathy for people who experience hardships and get behind on their debt after making a good faith effort to keep up, but the this case and the majority of the cases there are not that. This poster purposefully ignored this debt for almost 20 years and it just now wanting to deal with it now that it has quadrupled. In order for your student loan debt to blow up like this, you have to make an effort to specifically NOT pay anything on it and to ignore every call and letter they send you FOR 20 YEARS!!

oh....and welcome to DU.

[femrap]

101. They can't get blood from a turnip.

I really wouldn't worry about it. It doesn't help. There are lots of people in the same situation. I would imagine there are Organized Groups that are formed concerning Student Loans.

F*cking Banksters.

[Liberal_in_LA]

131. +10

[vanboggie]

103. Helpful forum

Aquart, you may want to visit http://creditboards.com for support. There is a section in the forums specificaly for student loans. You can read what others have done, ask questions and get some emotional support as well. Don't let the nasty bill collectors get to you. They will lie and threaten to a point that should be against the law - and often is. Good luck to you.

[mike_c]

106. you'll get used to it....

Believe me, you will. You'll have to, because unless the rat bastards in Washington change the laws, that millstone will be around your neck for the rest of your life. I know this from personal experience-- I'm planning for homelessness in retirement because that's what Sallie Mae and the Dept of Education are going to leave me when they attach my pension for "repaying" student loan debt that I likely cannot live long enough to repay, let alone work. We mortgaged our future to get an education, something that should be a basic human right-- the right to achieve our best potential. But in America, EVERYTHING is for sale, and human happiness has the highest price tag of all.

Yes, I'm a little bitter about it, too.

[prete_nero]

107. get legal help

I know not everyone can afford a lawyer (get a free one if possible) but there is a reason they exist, they do fill a function. Lawyers spend their day doing stuff like this, not all of the rest of us can...we are amatures and the collections people knwo it. Also like others said these collectors don't like talking to lawyers because its all of a sudden not an emotional issue.

Most of call I recommend a lawyer because either accidentally or maliciously sometimes this stuff gets messed up, and they WILL NOT listen to you when you point it out.

My hubby had a loan that was arranged to be paid off with the condition that all payments were on time unless arrangements were made before hand. One month the payment was made but they 'lost' it even though they took the money...so they sent it to the dreaded collectors agency. This was years ago and they still to this day will randomly call trying to collect on this. The only thing I can think of is that other collection agencies are buying the 'account' from others and they don't know whats going on.
The ONLY WAY to get them to quit harassing us is to have our lawyer call them. Its expensive but its unfortunately the only thing that they will believe.

Paying back earned debt sucks but its all something we must do, but no one should have to put up with the way these people act nor be treated like criminals. Like others said, don't let it get you down just do your best and what you can, there isn't any more you can do.

[truth2power]

109. The whole student loan issue is a crime. n/t

[avebury]

111. K&R

[SCantiGOP]

112. Aquart:

check your inbox, I just sent you something.

[Suziq]

116. Brought Tears to My Eyes

I am SO sorry you are going through this.

I do not have any advice, just a kick so others see this thread. :hug:

[locahungaria]

118. What can I say?

:hug:

and other posters are right; it's just money, and in the bigger picture of things, it's not worth stressing out over.

[taught_me_patience]

119. Seek a lawyer who specializes in debt

It'll be the best $300 you'll spend.

[SCantiGOP]

123. If you meet the income guidelines

every state has a Legal Services office that will do this for free. They have attorneys that specialize in debt, bankruptcy and foreclosure issues. They go by different names (Legal Aid, Legal Services, Centers for Equal Justice) but just google your state and the term legal aid and you'll find them.

[Autumn Colors]

122. Call this organization

This is a nonprofit organization that I found through the whitehouse.gov website when trying to get help to stay out of foreclosure. I've also spoken to them about debt consolidation versus bankruptcy.

I'm not sure if they can help you or not with student loan debt, but what they had told me they can do to help with credit card debit is that they go through your finances and if you can pay off the loan at very low interest within a certain number of years, you will just pay them for those years and they negotiate with all the creditors. (The rate they quoted me was 5% over 5 years and you have to give up ALL credit cards - but you don't have to file for bankruptcy, which means you don't lose your vehicle, etc). If they see that it's not possible based on your income/expenses, they'll tell you up front that they can't help you.

Please get in touch with them. All of the counselors I've spoken to there have been really kind and gave me a lot of valuable info. If they can't help, they may be able to steer you to someone who can. They try to get you in touch with free legal help if at all possible.

I'm going through foreclosure because there was no solution to that, but I'll probably be talking to them about debt consolidation by the end of this year.

http://www.greenpath.net

EDIT: Needed to fix URL -- I had .org instead of .net -- sorry.

[stockholmer]

127. what a wicked system the US has for uni education,must be millions in your shoes tonight, big hugs &

follow the myriad number of good posts on here to get some remedy. Best of luck to you, I am truly sorry for your situation.

ps, DONT let the bastards grind you down! you are always a person, NOT a balance sheet



:pals:

[crim son]

132. I know it is small comfort but you are in good company.

I recently got hit with an unexpected circumstance that has me looking at losing the house I bought after my divorce. I can't find work and my other sources of support are being pulled - my fault, I didn't read the fine print on the divorce agreement. I found this out last week and it was like the bottom dropped out of my world. I was literally dizzy, and for two days after that I considered the most dire response to this latest nightmare. But it's been a week and I have come around. The reality is I am going to have to do some things I never imagined to hold on to my home including giving up some future security and refinancing my loan out for many more years than I knew was possible, if I can get one. If one more thing happens, say, I get sick (no health insurance) there are no more options, period. But, I've told myself without feeling like a liar, it's only money. And if I get sick, it's still only money. At the end I will have my kids, my parents, my sisters and my friends which is better than how it was when I started out thirty years ago. I am lucky to have all the family, that's for damned sure but in the end it's just me anyway.

I'm sorry you have had this terrible shock and I hope you realize it's not the end of the world, it's just a HUGE BITCH of a PITA. :hug:

[LeftishBrit]

137. Very best wishes!

I agree with those who say you should talk to a lawyer.

While you may have failed to keep your eye on the situation, so did the people who are SUDDENLY dunning you for a loan you took out in 1992. Why did they not contact you much earlier? *They* are supposed to be the professionals, after all. I admit that I don't know the legal situation in America, but I find it a little suspicious that they said all this on the phone - perhaps they had some reasons for not wanting to put it all in writing? I am not saying that you don't owe the money; but their threats about it at this stage, especially with regard to your mother, may be exaggerated and unprofessional.

Good luck!

[FunMe]

138. Students Loans are run by PREDATORS

Student loans are the one area of loans that has BLOOD in their hands for what they do to students who default. A loan turning into $77,000 is not only wrong ... it is IMMORAL.

The first thing to remember is NOT to fear. At the end of the day, even though right now the laws are so wrong regarding Student Loans, DO NOT BE AFRAID. Don't be ashamed as many people have financial problems and can't pay loans. But for a student loan to be a MONEY MAKER if it is in default. All those in that industry deserve karma, BAD KARMA, for causing situation like yours.

When Wall St. can get away with murder but students can't and they make them feel ashame. DON'T.

I urge you to learn more about at STUDENT LOAN JUSTICE and what is being done to help fix the situation. The guy has been working at it for a long time with slow results. But he is not giving up. Check it out:

http://studentloanjustice.org/

Summary

The federal student loan system has become predatory due to the Congressional removal of standard consumer protections and congressionally sanctioned collection powers that are stronger than those for all other loan instruments in our nation's history. The resulting lending system is causing great harm to citizens who borrow for college, but also causes harm to all students, generally due to the unchecked inflation that is enabled by this problem. A plethora of other, systemic problems have also arisen within the lending system as a result of the financial motivations of the various system elements being aligned against, instead of with, the students.

Importantly: this problem is virtually guaranteed to persist in the re-architected, Direct lending system in its current form, and could even be exacerbated. In the public interest, the consumer protections that were removed by Congress must be restored by Congress at the earliest opportunity. By returning these consumer protections, the motivations of the system's functional elements will be reoriented such that most, if not all of the deficiencies mentioned above will go away over time. Until at least the most fundamental protections (namely, bankruptcy protections) are restored, no remedies, however well intended and designed, will be
effective in controlling defaults, or tuition inflation.

Read more here:

http://studentloanjustice.org/argument.htm

By the way, the most they can take from one's monthly pay check is 15%. So DO NOT have your mom mortgage her home or get a new loan. Just pay 15% or less! Again, trust me those PREDATORS in the student loan industry will get their BAD KARMA!

[FunMe]

141. Department of Education failed to warn students about lack of fundamental consumer protections

Here's the link:

http://studentloanjustice.org/press_release5-10-11.html

Let there be no mistake: Department of Education staff blatantly and consistently failed to inform the public for decades that the true default rate for these loans was greater than 1-in-four (it is likely over 1-in-3 currently), and also failed to ensure that the vast majority of students were explicitly warned about the absence of fundamental consumer protections like bankruptcy, statutes of limitations, and many others. This is critical and relevant information that the students and their families absolutely would have found troubling, and that would certainly have caused many to rethink their borrowing decisions.

These grossly negligent Dept. of Ed managers, executives brought in from Sallie Mae and other well connected industry players, are the same people who repeatedley failed to warn Congress that the citizens were taking on unmanageable levels of student loan debt. This has been a key factor, if not the key factor responsible for the massive inflation this country has had to accommodate in the price of college for so many years.

Importantly, this is the very same Department of Education that has been MAKING, not losing, money on defaulted student loans for many years, as have the lenders, guarantors, and collection companies...these are ALL of the functional system elements of the entire system! This is the definition (or should be) of a predatory lending scheme, and the Education Department is not only not practicing any kind of meaningful oversight- it is actually enabling, participating in, profiting from, and ultimately protecting the system!

Most importantly, however: this federal student loan system has been destroying lives, families, and communities.... for many years. This wrongly directed financial incentive lies at the core of the problem, obviously, and is a direct result of the removal of the consumer protections mentioned above. This has without doubt proven to be a massive cost to the public, with the damage done to millions of citizens and their families far outweighing any fiscal benefit accrued through exaggerated default collections.

This must be corrected immediately.

Therefore, we are calling for defaulted federal student loan borrowers to immediately stop making payments to the holders of these loans. Only when full, and fair bankruptcy, and other consumer protections- protections that were removed without defensible basis- are returned to all student loans should citizens entertain notions of attempting to negotiate fair and reasonable settlements of this debt.

[chervilant]

144. Hello

I've done advocacy for survivors of relationship violence for better than thirty years, so I have a few ideas I'd like to share.

The first thing I'd like to say to you is I admire your courage in sharing your personal experiences in a forum wherein you'll inevitably encounter judgmental, negative attacks. I hope that you have supportive friends and family who help reinforce your worth. Furthermore, I hope that you will feel compassion for those individuals herein whose raison d'etre is vomiting their own negativity onto others. I think it must be very sad to be that type of individual.

Here are some of the things you might consider:

1) Keep a detailed, chronological journal of this event. Take time to note dates and times of phone conversations, and the names and contact information for each person with whom you discuss your school loan. Doing this is empowering, and you will have a record that could become evidentiary.

2) Write a letter to the collection agency and put them on notice that they are not to call you at any time for any reason, and that all future correspondence should be in writing. This is your right and NO ONE should be required to endure abusive phone calls from collectors.

3) Write a letter to the originator of your school loan and ask them to provide a detailed description of their protocol for pursuing repayment of delinquent loans. This letter could be your opportunity to put that agency on notice that you've not deliberately defaulted on your loan, and that you will be exploring strategies to repay your indebtedness despite your dire financial straits.

4) Find out if your community has a Women's Center, or if there are other helping agencies that might provide legal advocates for situations like yours.

5) Compile a list of the individuals and agencies that provide ANY advocacy or help, along with their mailing addresses. Send thank you notes to everyone who helps you, even in the smallest way.

6) Find a support group. There are all kinds of support groups in most metropolitan areas, and a growing number of online groups that can help. Being willing to talk about this is the first step to developing a recovery strategy.

7) Do advocacy for others in similar situations. (This is perhaps the most empowering strategy of all that I've listed.)

As I've told countless other women for whom I've done advocacy: take what you need and leave the rest. Trust yourself to know what is right for you. Cling to kindness and redirect those who make ugly or judgmental statements, by saying, "Thank you for your concern; I'll take {whatever they've said} under advisement."

Virtual hugs to you and yours.

[TNLib]

145. Maybe see a lawyer that specializes in this. Don't feel like your alone

allot of people are in serious debt. And many have walked away from there debt. I think predatory lending doesn't give people much choice. So don't worry to much about it.

Whatever you do don't let it get you down.

[Poll_Blind]

146. If all of us could each soak up a little bit of that fright for you, I think we would.

But since we can't do that, just remember that you still have some options. I'm not being funny when I say I'm not entirely sure what those options are at the moment- I'm ignorant about that kind of thing. But I'll be other respondents in the thread have more useful ideas. Read those, ask questions, do follow up research and just by engaging it like that it can make you a little more secure, a little less scared.

It can feel like it sometimes but you're not alone as you might feel right now.

:hug:

PB

[Hosnon]

149. You can discharge student loans in bankruptcy.

It's damn near impossible but it can be done. I'm only aware if it working in extreme circumstances (e.g., brain damage).

And if your mom didn't cosign, they can't go after her. It's not her debt.

[spanone]

157. ...

:grouphug:

[bethfully]

158. I am so very, very sorry for your situation

and, while I don't have any good advise dealing w/ student loans in your current circumstance, I just want to share my similar story of being diagnosed w/ AD/HD at age 40, having had paperwork and timelines end up creating such hurdles for me that I've suffered enormous financial and shameful consequences from. And it is indeed a disability.

One suggestion I have is that wherever you are that you find the local CHADD support group in your area (Children and Adults w/ AD/HD) and go to a meeting to find out what other resources might be available to you. I've used CHADD many times (and actually became a Parent to Parent teacher b/c my oldest son has AD/HD and I wanted to help other parents with that difficult journey). Google CHADD and click on the Find Support tab at the top. Good luck to you. This isn't about you being bad but I am very aware of the deep shame, overwhelm, despair, and genuine heartbreak that this disorder brings. In many ways, every other physical ailment I've had, while difficult and painful (and in some cases involving chronic pain), nothing has rivaled the massive impact that AD/HD has had on my life and it is made worse by the fact that many around me either don't believe it's real or don't understand, in any meaningful way, how the attendant impairments functionally impact an adult's life.

[creeksneakers2]

163. Another possibility

If you get to garnishment, in some cases its possible to convince a judge to reduce or eliminate the garnishments. Perhaps if you find a lawyer you could ask about this. Garnishment sounds like the only way they can collect from you. From all I've seen, the creditors won't go after any assets unless they are highly liquid.

[Stumbler]

168. This is an awful reminder for those of us w/ student loans.

Especially in this 'economy' where some of us are living on loans exclusively due to the lack of job ops...

[and-justice-for-all]

171. If you file bankruptcy it will give you more room to breathe....

and you will be able to pay them more than you would if you had not filed. You should find another lawyer and see if there is some negoiation he could administer for you with the lender of your loan, maybe even negoitiate it to a much lower amount.

[24601]

172. Most of what I know about student loans I learned watching Susie

Orman on PBS. She stressed what so many have already said - that student loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy. She also pointed out that lenders are perfectly willing to let borrowers put their loans on hold because the amount grows and eventually it will be paid, even if it is taken out of Social Security. She and others are working to change the law but there is no relief in sight in the near term.

Susie's big message is to stand in the truth of our financial reality - whatever that is for each of us.

The amount you cited sounds about right from a loan that size taken out in 1992.

If you can get legal aid/advice, I'd start there so that you deal with the lender properly. An attorney specializing in debt may know of programs to reduce/eliminate the debt. As others have pointed out, this is your debt and your mother has no liability unless she co-signed. If anyone, especially a collection agency, suggests your mom pay it, I'd ask them to have THEIR mom pay since her liability is the same as your mom. Make it clear that no family members will be paying anything and that this is non-negotiable.

Presuming legal aid confirms it is viable, I'd refuse to deal with any collection agency with one exception - and that would be of they produce documentation settling the debt in full at a significant discount - guaranteed in advance in writing and notarized by the agency and by the original lender. The stipulation for dealing with them is that your credit record has to reflect everything paid in full - or no deal. Insist on copies of any debt documents.

I'd insist all communications be in writing. You can explain easily that due to the threat of identity theft & fraud, you just do not discuss financial matters over the telephone. If they keep calling, inform them that all calls are recorded. Make sure you get on tape directing them not to call and asking which government agency regulates them. Insist on recording names and employee numbers. You could even insist that provide a number for you to call as a condition for conversation since they may have their ID blocked.

But it also appears that most of this is a legitimate debt and I'd look at proposing a long-term repayment plan. Better to get one you can live with than wake up one day and fine out that a more draconian one has been imposed via garnishment.

Finally, student loans certainly suck. But the alternative is that lenders wouldn't loan money for education and that means plenty of students never get a chance.

Good luck.

[B Calm]

179. Well I see I'm not the only one living the American Dream. . .