BREAKING RANKS: Why Some Veterans Hate it When You Say 'Thank You'

[w8liftinglady]

http://www.nationaljournal.com/dailyfray/breaking-ranks-why-some-veterans-hate-it-when-you-say-thank-you--20101210


By Max Fisher

Friday, December 10, 2010 | 4:30 p.m.
Though the majority of Americans have never served in the military, most everyone is conscious of the dramatic toll that this past decade's two wars have taken on the uniformed services, nearly 7,000 of whose members have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, with many more wounded. So many non-veterans have taken to showing their gratitude and awareness by thanking veterans who they pass on the street.

But this simple gesture, well intentioned though it may be, is not always welcome. In fact, some veterans say that hearing strangers tell them "thank you" can be awkward or downright painful. Foreign Policy's Tom Ricks, who writes frequently on the U.S. military, raised the issue by posting a column written by an anonymous Marine veteran. The column, which Ricks headlined "You can go strangle yourself with that yellow ribbon, or, here is what I want you to do instead of shaking my hand," suggests that veterans would rather see civilians make difficult choices about the factors that led us into war in the first place, and how to prevent future war, rather than slapping a bumper sticker on their car. "As a young person who served in a war you made, I don't want your handshake, your pity, your daughter's phone number, or your faded bumper sticker. I did my frigging job so now do yours. Baby Boomers and Generation X: I want your leadership."



MUCH more at site

[xchrom]

1. Very interesting. Nt

[Jackpine Radical]

2. Here is something I wrote a few years ago re: Veterans Day.

I hope you don't mind the repost.

Veterans days always make me feel weird.

Especially when someone says "Thank you for your service." You see, I was an infantryman in Vietnam, but I did not serve willingly. I was drafted, forced into a deadly form of involuntary servitude, and whatever illusions I might originally have had about the rightness of the war were quickly torn from me when I saw what we were doing to the innocent people, the sacred soils, the beautiful waters and jungles and mountains of that tormented land.

"No, don't thank me," I want to say. "Forgive me. Forgive me for participating in that awful event in your name. If you must thank me for something, then thank me for joining the movement to stop the war when I got home. Maybe thank me for the things I have tried to do for the castoffs of society--the mentally ill, the developmentally disabled, the emotionally damaged products of chaotic and abusive homes who have gone on to fill our jails and prisons. But don't thank me for going off to participate in the destruction of a foreign land whose residents never intended any harm to you or me."

[w8liftinglady]

3. My partner had kind of the same reaction at work

All the patriots wanted to shake his hand(there were THREE vets in a school that employed 300-2 men and one woman)He did pretty much the same thing..."you want to thank me for something you never knew...will never understand?Go do something to end these wars and bring these troops home".It didn't go over too well....

[whathehell]

8. Seems rather churlish....

If veterans don't want my thanks, fine, but they should understand that those thanks don't necessarily come from people who are NOT doing "something to end these wars" as well.

I've thanked a couple of veterans, old and young...I didn't shake their hands and I don't have a yellow sticker on my car, things most of these posts seem to emphasize over just thanking.

I would have thought that more posts here would have reflected what the OP said about understanding the "well-intended".....Whatever.:shrug:

[w8liftinglady]

16. I guess it takes actually being in a war zone to understand this

Many of these troops had no idea what the hell they were getting in to.
My son went to iraq as a mechanic.he spent three tours killing iraqis.

My co-worker's son went over there in special ops.He is on his 4th deployment.
She equates him with an actor on "The Deerhunter"-totally mind-fucked.

another co-worker has two sons over there."I fear Memorial Day and veterans Day,because I see my sons with every mention"I have guided her and her sons' wives to resources for families with PTSD.

I have helped 25 homeless vets get into the VA system-people who "support the troops" one day out of 365 could care less about vets when they get back.

So,forgive us if we are less than grateful.

[whathehell]

23. You know what?

I'm sorry for the anguish this war has brought you, your friends and your family...I understand it, perhaps a bit better than you think, having a friend who's son tried to commit suicide right before he was redeployed to Iraq.....I'm happy to say he's now home and doing okay.

Having said that, I must respond to your plea to "forgive" you as I have nothing to "forgive" and don't care if you're not "grateful". As I said: " I won't thank them..fine"....End of story, as far as I'm concerned.

Beyond that, I think it's a mistake to assume, as both the original article and you seem to, that a. Those who did/do this are not THEMSELVES veterans or B. That everyone who chooses to do this is some sort of shallow, pro-war individual who is NOT involved in stopping the war.

We are not all so "inured" to the real effects of war as you seem to think -- A brother of a friend of mine was killed at nineteen in Vietnam...I have six close family members who fought in every war from WWII to Korea to Vietnam....One was killed and three others came home with PTSD, one of them, my father and another my uncle who suffered his entire life with it until he died prematurely at fifty nine.

My husband and I give REGULARLY to veterans groups, I volunteer in a nearby veterans hospital, and am engaged in Out of Afghanistan activities.

Now, I know that's not the same as "being there"..but being a female of an age when women were NOT allowed into the armed forces, I'm afraid that's the best I can do.

Incidentally, W8lifting Lady, I've sent you at least three positive posts, at least one responding to your heartfelt posts regarding your son and this is the FIRST time time you've respond to me.

Best to you, anyway.

[w8liftinglady]

35. please read your PM...peace.

[Jackpine Radical]

29. I wouldn't respond negatively to any individual saying thanks.

My post was a general one, reflecting my feelings, and not directed at any person. Others may respond differently, but I don't see that I have a right to "go off" on some hapless well-wisher. Mostly what I do is just not bring up my veteran status in that sort of situation.

[whathehell]

30. Thank you.

There seems to be a lot of displaced anger here.

[liberalmike27]

78. I feel Like an Hypocrite

When I think someone for going to a war I don't really think we needed to go to. That said, even back in Vietnam I have never taken to the idea of blaming the soldier, which by the way the anti-war movement did back then.

That said, I'm not going to start some kind of dumbass argument with them. I'm probably not going to thank them for their service either. I kind of feel like they'll probably see through me anyway, so being quiet is likely the best alternative.

I'd love it if more of them decided to not go back. I know that'd be a large social sacrifice, perhaps a trip to the brig, or dihonorable discharge, but we need some protestations of this backdoor draft.

[SaveAmerica]

79. Anger becomes a big part of your world, maybe it seems displaced?

I hear what you're saying but I can speak from both sides of the issue. I *was* where you are now, and I hope that you realize that what you're doing is appreciated. Appreciation for your efforts is separate from the anger. After my husband's year in Iraq I'm now able to understand that other side where anger (unfortunately) starts to grow inside you know matter how hard you fight it. I used to be so positive, was rarely brought to anger and was motivated by good energy to get things done. I started noticing a change in me a few months after my husband hit the sand. Positive only goes so far when you know what we know about why we're in the Middle East. Then add the details about what's going on there (contractors get *everything* they want, servicemembers; not so much, troops being treated like garbage over there, etc etc) and you start to listen to people's comments differently, you stand in a line at the grocery store and wonder if the person in front of you even knows 1/10th of the pain you have felt that day). I hate that I feel like this and am trying very hard to bring myself back around, and I haven't even spent one day in the sand, jungle, wherever. I can't even imagine how that feels to someone who isn't getting it secondary as I have.

That said, I have friends who have been deployed (my husband included) who realize that what you're doing is the best you can do. I imagine you feel helpless, you've worked so hard to do right by these guys and watched as they are sent over anyway (me too!). It's really a difficult place they're in, mentally. Some do realize there are people who are doing what they can and they wouldn't turn away from your thank you. I hope that you'll forgive the ones who do. As you said, you just can't tell who's only 'bumper sticker supporter' or who is a really getting in there and doing things supporter when someone says 'Thank you'. Please don't stop doing the things you're doing and supporting our guys the way you do. It really does mean a lot.

[Maat]

54. I really appreciated your post, Jackpine Radical.

Signed,

Long-time Peace Vigil Veteran


P.S. Many blessings to you and yours.

Many blessings to w8liftinglady and her son.

[kenfrequed]

76. err...

I have served and I felt the same way as the OP. I don't think their comments or the OP was directed at you and I think you might be overpersonalizing this.

The overwhelming majority of the people that I see with patriotic bumper stickers and who do the 'thank a vet' thing usually end up being pro-war people. I think this is a stark contrast to people that actually do things for vets or their families.

[whathehell]

83. err...

A. I have thanked veterans on occasion.

B. I give regularly to veterans groups

C. I volunteer at a veterans hospital.

D. I'm generally anti- war.

D. I don't have a patriotic bumper sticker....Anywhere.



You may want to re-visit those "stark contrasts" for their basis in reality

[kenfrequed]

84. You missed it. Again.

It was even in the first paragraph.

I don't think the Op was about you or what you have done. Again, you are over-personalizing a generalization. Generalizations sometimes are problematic but statistically you can make them.

The stark contrasts are there.

One more time. This is not about you. I am not sure why you are making this all about you. This is how a the OP feels as a veteran and having served myself I share their feelings in this case.

[whathehell]

87. As do you....Again.

We know how the OP feels...We know how you feel...but I'm afraid that posting it on a thread invites other perspectives, attitudes, and feelings and therefore extends the circle of "who" it is about.

This is "about me" to the extent that I AM one who has thanked veterans and who does not fit the shallow, pro-war generalization you and a couple of others seem to believe in. How one can determine someone's "caring", conservative attitudes, etc. through a ten second exchange of "thank you for your service"
is beyond me and I would guess a number of others here as well.

Perhaps it's a need to rationalize as "fact" your worst suppositions so you can justify taking out your anger on them, I don't know. As a number of veterans here have said, in one way or another, they may have mixed or even negative feelings about the gesture, but "I would never respond negatively to someone who said "thank you".

If you go over this thread, I think you will see that a RANGE of feelings from many including other vets exist here and they don't all correspond to yours or that of the OP.

Perhaps you will then be able to take your own advice and see that it's not "all about you" or for that matter, even the OP.

Good night and Good luck.

[kenfrequed]

88. I see

I am sorry that my experiences don't match up to what you have been doing but my experiences are just as factual as yours. As a vet I have been thanked by a hell of a lot of people that probably didn't have your good intentions.

The poster was talking about them. Clearly not you.


And by the way, when I was reviewing the posts here I found one line that I found very offensive.

-You may want to re-visit those "stark contrasts" for their basis in reality-

I don't know if you thought I was lying about what I have experienced and felt or if you were accusing me of being ignorant as to reality, but this really upset me.

[whathehell]

91. Okay...

I understand how that line would upset you, and no, I didn't think you were lying OR ignorant to reality and I'm sure I only included it because I was upset at the snarky way that you opened up your initial post with "errrr.."

That kind of thing really grates on me and god knows, you're not alone, there's a lot of it here...That whole style of sarcasm -- especially in a first response to a post can REALLY put someone on the defensive as it seems an attempt to be "clever" at the other person's expense...It makes me feel as if that person is ridiculing me for being "ignorant" or "dim" or some such.....Because of this I always "meet snark with snark"...Probably NOT the "best" response, but understandable, I think.

Well, thank you for bringing it out in the open...We all need to do this more often...As for the substance of this exchange, I get what you are saying..I guess I just felt the poster was "painting with a broad brush"...even now, I kind of wonder why you think that many of the people who have thanked you "probably didn't have" my good intentions....But that's okay...seriously, this is your reaction, your perception and, obviously, you're free to experience it that way.

Peace.

[bobbolink]

11. I appreciate the courage it takes to speak out like that.

Speaking that truth is true heroism. :patriot:

[2Design]

12. now this is something I can get behind - the new way of thanking

seems to be endorsing wrong headed policies. I am sorry people are caught up in the wars and shooting or being shot at BUT DAMN I protested this war before it started - it was wrong headed. DEAN said it. I believed it. Most of our wars are wrong headed since WWII

I am sorry you had to live through that time and all the things it did to so many on both sides.

[kentuck]

13. That's the way I feel also, Jackpine

It bothers me when people say thank you for your service. On Veterans Day, my manager came over and said that in the workplace. Thank me for being anti-war and anti-imperalism and anti-militarism??

[dflprincess]

26. It is not the veterans who need to ask forgiveness for the wars they've been sent to

It is anyone who sat and did nothing or supported the youngs ones being sent to slaughter who should beg forgiveness.

The only way to truly thank veterans is to see to it that their medical, emotional & educational needs are met - and to do our best to avoid sending more people to die in needless wars. I'll bet that most these people who want to shake a vet's hand are the first to bitch about their taxes and don't care if the programs for vets are funded.

[SaveAmerica]

80. Your words brought me to tears, thank you

[madokie]

50. That pretty much says it all for me too

I'm sure happy to see you made it back home and with your wits still about you. :hi:

[Jackpine Radical]

51. "your wits still about you"

There's considerable debate on that issue.

[sirthomas66]

72. I served in that same war, and feel as you do. The experience

altered my life forever and to thank me is to insult me.

[Marr]

4. Just after the invasion of Iraq, I saw something that summed up this sentiment to me.

It was one of those truly massive SUV's, shiny and new, with a "support the troops" magnet stuck on the back. They wouldn't even commit to offering their hollow "support" with a sticker, since it might leave a mark on their paint.

[Supersedeas]

68. some americans cherish 'bling' much more than patriotism - 20 minutes of reality TV can

be an eye-opener.

[Bigmack]

5. What Jackpine and w8lifting said... nt

[old mark]

6. People have thanked me here on DU "for my service"....I had no choice but to go the prison or

into the military, so I took 3 years in the Army. I did NOT approve of the Vietnam war, and certainly did not want to be killed or maimed in it. I never felt like I made any contribution to some notion of freedom or preserving American ideals or any such nonsense - I felt like I had to do things I hated to do or be brutalized by my own country and government. I was merely trying to save my own ass from Federal prison.

The time I spent in the Army, including a year as a hospital patient after a serious accident, cost me a lot of grief, including a divorce, and lost years and opportunities from my very enjoyable occupation of playing music.

I don't want thanks - I want to forget it all ever happened, but I still have physical problems and terrible dreams about it all, and I am glad there is no draft today to force other people into such terrible positions and choices.

I'm glad to see that I am not alone in this.


mark

[SoCalDem]

7. I have always thought it ranked up there with "Have a Nice day"

People abhor silence and seem to always "need" to say "something", in almost every circumstance, so "appropriate" phrases have been developed over time..

How are you? (they really don't want to know)
How's the family? (see above)
What have you been up to? (see above)

Thanking a service person is something they have been trained to think that is a necessary greeting to use...especially if no one in their life is serving/has served.

Since there is not a draft, it's thanking them for doing a job they volunteered for, so it's probably more appropriate (even if it seems a bit creepy at time)

But you cannot ask someone if it;s okay if you thank them, so I guess military people will just have to accept the gesture, unless they want to tell the people to knock it off:)

[2Design]

14. I think this is why KERRY was not embracing them putting him up as a hero

I don't think he liked what he saw or did at that time. IT was an awful time.

[Glassunion]

47. When I have a chance to get in front of a computer I will elaborate.

Not everyone's "thank you" means the same thing.

[Glassunion]

85. Finally in front of a computer.

Like I stated in my other post, not everyone's "Thank You" is the same.

I come from a family that has had many men serve in the military during war time. My uncle was in the same boat as you. He did not agree with the war however he had no choice but to go. My mother was very disturbed when my uncle was drafted. He was her baby brother.

From what my mother tells me, my uncle was captured and was held as a POW for 2 years. This happened 8 months into his tour. No one in the family shares the story and I have no other details than what my mother has told me. All I know is that after 2 years in a POW camp, my uncle and 6 others escaped from the camp and eventually made their way safely home.

In a war with no purpose, that most people hated, what would you say to someone who served? My mother says "Thank You". Not because you defended freedom, or preserved our ideals. But instead, because you brought her baby brother home. You saw to his safety, you protected him and you brought him home. You in all likelihood never met my uncle, or had any direct contact with him. But you did what you had to do, to protect yourself and the guys next to you. All of you did that. In turn that is what saw my uncle safely home.

Today she has a son and I have a brother serving in the Middle East. When I encounter someone who makes me aware they are in the service or who has served, I also say "Thank You". Thank you for keeping my brother alive... Thank you for keeping my uncle alive... Thank you for keeping both of my grandfathers alive.

If that upsets you, I am truly sorry. I don't know what else to say.

[JonLP24]

9. It only bothered me a little

well it depends on how often the greeting I received. For example, I HATED being in airports with my uniform on. (This was when I went on leave after basic training and from and back of the deployments during leave) I had several people each time mention thanks.

I always think to myself, "I didn't do it for you or anything I did didn't indirectly help you." It ranks up there for "fighting for our freedom". Not a single thing I did helped anyone stay free.

[whathehell]

10. "So many non-veterans have taken to showing their gratitude and awareness by

thanking veterans who they pass on the street".


Question: How do they know they are "non-veterans"??

[treestar]

15. Then there are the ones who'd be mad that you don't

say it and don't show enough gratitude.

People are so demanding sometimes!

[whathehell]

17. Yep...

One can't read minds or please everybody...obviously.

[kentuck]

18. Are you a veteran?

Of a war?

[treestar]

19. What difference does that make?

I'm saying it is frustrating that no matter what you do when you meet one, you can't apparently do or say the "right" thing - at least can people tell us up front please? I don't want to offend. How am I supposed to know what each veteran wants unless they tell me?

Makes me hope I never meet any, since I have a chance of unintentionally offending. Or err by saying nothing, offending only the ones who want anything from thanks to adulation for it.

[UTUSN]

20. I've been flamed for not liking the "T U 4 ur S" deal, but my reason

the main reason, is that the ones who almost always are saying it are wingnut chickenhawks, and back during Shrub's illegal Iraq attack, they were young dudes who use this thing to make up for THEIR NOT GOING, their being militaristic with OTHERS' lives while saving their own.


Now, here's the problem, that I volunteered in (little did I know) the height of Vietnam, and as I and Charlie RANGEL have said, for ECONOMICS reasons, not gung-ho-"patriotism." So, I've always had my Dem/Lib politics, which at that time meant some level of anti-war convictions, but 4 years of something gives you SOMETHING that you are proud of, so the thank-you-for-your-service deal is triggered in others by my constantly wearing one of my dogtags, one of my ballcaps with my Vietnam-serving ship on it, a Vietnam strip of flag colors on my belt key chain, or my cold weather jackets with Vietnam patches plastered all over. So, as a wingnut said to me, when you WEAR stuff like that, you are ASKING for people to respond. Well, no, I am conscious of an important CHUNK of my life and would like to wear my junk just as what I am without being pestered, since the pesterers usually don't share my values or world view.

So, the flaming, here, has taken the form of, "Can't you just say, 'You're welcome," have you tried just being GRACIOUS?!1"

Sometimes. Mostly, not.

[UTUSN]

21. O.K., I'll confess, too: There's a certain amount of in-your-face to it, too. n/t

[Pool Hall Ace]

22. If anything, I have been tempted to say

"I'm sorry you got caught in Bush's quagmire." I'm sure that would seen as "un-American" by many.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

24. I have seen this too, it can get a bit syrupy at times.

My response normally is "I was proud to serve". I then try to direct the conversation to ask if they have family members in uniform and what they could be doing for them. I also turn down any freebie offered (and there are a lot of them) thanking them and suggesting that they save it for those in uniform or veterans in real need (I am not).

[uppityperson]

25. k&r

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. It's like saying Gesundheit or "Have a nice day" a social custom of no value.

I usually shrug when it's offered to me for doing absolutely nothing of benefit to anybody (other than than the MIC) for long dreary years.

[Ron Green]

28. Perhaps some vets want to be thanked and some don't.

Some vets wear their patches and garb at parades and on holidays. Some vets wear that stuff all the time. Some vets (like me), don't wear it at all.

I kind of think the "professional vets" are always looking for some affirmation of their experience, or perhaps closure, or maybe just a glimmer of sanity. I believe thanking a vet for his service should be an individual act based on knowledge of the experience, not acknowledgment of a category.

[old mark]

57. You mean you think we should be treated as INDIVIDUALS? Now THERE's

a novel idea - Thanks for your Consideration!


mark

[Uncle Joe]

31. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, w8liftinglady.

[JustAnotherGen]

32. Good for him!

My dad always has wondered about Veteran's Day - to him? He was just doing a job. And at the end of his service - one he did not agree with anymore.

I like when he responds to people: Don't thank me - thank the low paid teacher, the cop that arrives at the scene of an accident, the social worker that helps a homeless vet get off the streets.

[lukasahero]

33. Isn't this just over-compensation for how our Viet Nam vets were treated?

I think we're all trying to be supportive of our young men and women whether we like the wars or not.

Since it would never occur to me to walk up to a stranger and say anything, I guess I don't have to worry about pissing off any vets but now I wonder if I should even post a thank you on DU when it comes up from time to time.

Starting to feel damned if I do, damned if I don't.

[NuclearDem]

34. I agree with the sentiments...

But even if someone approaches me and thanks me for my service, I still respond with a smile/handshake, even if it just because civility and kind words are so hard to come by in America these days.

But I still agree with the idea. Slapping a bumper sticker on your car isn't going to give a soldier his legs back, or stop an airman's divorce, or keep a marine from going off to an unjust war.

It's funny...a lot of those people who slap on "Support the Troops" stickers are often the same ones who turn right around and scoff at anti-war protesters as being unamerican...when it's the anti-war crowd that's most supporting our servicemen.

[Gaedel]

38. When someone says.......

Merry Christmas

Happy holidays

Thank you for your sevice

Have a nice day

Have a nice weekend

Good luck

I take it as an expression of good will on the part of the person and not as a signal to feel outraged or to launch into a long polemic about religion, politics, or whatever.

The same thing, a "how are you doing" is not a signal for me to unload on the person a lengthy rundown of my physical and medical problems.

[NuclearDem]

43. Nail on the head nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

70. Well said!

I try to remain focused on the intent and not the specific content.

[kenfrequed]

77. I agree to a point.

I think when someone tries to do the 'thank you for your sevice' they are doing something other than thanking me for my service. When I make an off handed remark about the current conflict and wishing that my brothers and sisters could just come home, most of them stiffen up considerably, or at least they used to when Bush was in the White House, now they somehow make it Obama's fault that we are in Iraq and Afghanistan and many take this as a cue to lurch into a rant about how terrible he is.

It really is frustrating.

Once in a while I get a sad nod or a "I hope so too." or something but that is the exception.

Maybe I shouldn't say anything at all, but that seems to just reify the meme and justify the war to the people that don't really give a fuck how many Vet's families are on food stamps or how many people came back sans a limb.

[Ganja Ninja]

36. I've had people thank me for my service.

I always reply "Don't thank me just stop voting for Republicans."

[WinkyDink]

37. As a BB, I marched against TWO Invasions/"Wars," decades apart. WHERE ARE THE

YOUNG?

And you know what? I get plenty of requests for "Thank you's" for veterans, in the forms of money and/or signed cards. I donate to VFW, Eastern PA Paralyzed Veterans, and AMVETS.

Should I cease, so as not to offend?

[Bucky]

39. Thank you for posting this. Wait, I don't mean "thank you". What factors made you post this?

:dem:

[w8liftinglady]

45. I thought it was introspective

I see so much of this in my daily life and my volunteer life.
Maybe it will help others understand the "why"".

[WCGreen]

40. I always thought that tossing off a thank-you to a soldier was kind of

a cheap way to feel part of what it was that they were doing over there...

I respect what they are doing, take into consideration all of the mind destroying trauma that they will have to deal with the rest of their life's and to just say thank you and do nothing about changing the situation is a cheap, very cheap way to exonerate oneself...

[Hosnon]

41. As Bill Maher once said, putting a bumper sticker on your car is literally the least you can do. nt.

[county worker]

42. When someone thanks me for my time in Vietnam I go back in my mind to the time when I came home and

didn't dare tell anyone I was in Vietnam.

My feeling is that all the thanks and yellow ribbons today has some origins in that past that I remember. Since the first Iraq war people made sure to treat the returning vets well.

So when someone says thanks for your service I say thanks for saying that. The past is the past and you have to move on.

[walldude]

44. Shouldn't we be apologizing?

I mean here we have kids sent off to an ILLEGAL WAR that did nothing to protect this country. Shouldn't we be apologizing to soldiers for using them as cannon fodder in a war for profit?

[Duer 157099]

46. That phrase always bugs me and just sounds so disingenuous

But then I've never served so my opinion is not really relevent. I'm glad to see that some who have served hold the same opinion, though.

[WinkyDink]

48. I say it, and I assure you I am not "disingenuous," having voted for those who claimed to want to

end the Conflicts (e.g., McGovern = sincere; Obama = not so much).

[Recursion]

56. *shrug* I've never minded "thank you" or "welcome home"

(Only other vets seem to use "welcome home", though.)

Then again I grew up in the south so I probably developed an immunity to civil formalities.

The yellow ribbon stickers don't bug me per sese*, though there seems to be a sense that the money from them goes to Veterans' organizations which for the most part isn't true unless you buy them directly from one of the organizations. The Legion sells a lot of them but I'm torn on that. I'm a member but the national org opposes repealing DADT; a lot of us younger vets are trying to change that, at least. And the Legion does a lot of good stuff, too. Ain't compromise great?

Also, on a tangent, apparently the "yellow ribbon" thing goes all the way back to the English Civil War. The puritans wore yellow ribbons, and so when you went off to battle your girlfriend would wear one to remind all the other guys she's still being true to you.

Anyways, FWIW I don't think a "thank you" is out of place; YMMV.

* My high school Latin teacher would be happy that I remembered the ablative plural there; he used to show us the grammar scene from The Life of Brian at the beginning of the school year.

[westerebus]

89. It ain't easy being green.

[Toucano]

49. Great! I can go back to spitting on them now.

But seriously, doesn't it seem like we're fishing for reasons to be pissed off sometimes?

[whathehell]

55. "But seriously, doesn't it seem like

we're just fishing for reasons to be pissed off sometimes"?


The answer is an unqualified "Yes".:eyes:

[old mark]

58. I have been spit on and had garbage thrown at me by those who opposed the war

I was "asked" to serve in. I wish those who sat by on the sidelines would just shut the fuck up and mind their own business.

If I want to talk to someone about these vet type things, I will talk to my peers, not those former garbage throwers who are now "thanking" me for what they hated me for while I had to do it.
I strikes me as smarmy cynical bullshit, and I have had enough of that already.

mark

[retired af major]

75. can you elaborate old mark?

please tell us where and when and the circumstances.

the worst thing i had happen to me in uniform was a TSA screening. an officer, in uniform, on orders and fully credentialed (pre sept 11th). i was embarrassed to be an american.

[old mark]

86. Back in 1970, I went home on a short leave and made the mistake of wearing a uni...

People in passing cars spit and threw food garbage and soda cans at me, not once but several times.

I never wore it again unless on or near an army base.

mark

[Dawson Leery]

52. There are superior ways to support ones country than

the current worship of militarism that has infected the US.
K/R

[Mudoria]

53. The operative word is "Some"

[unhappycamper]

59. I always say "Welcome home Brother (or Sister)"

"Thank you for your service" seems a bit cheesy to me.

[Recursion]

60. I've never had a non-vet say "welcome home" to me

Not sure if we're the only ones who are "supposed to" say it or the only ones who know about it.

[tomp]

61. dear marine:

you volunteered for your job, apparently unaware that the u.s. public, in general, has little to no say over when and where "our" government chooses to send you.

you were also apparently unaware that u.s. imperialism uses the armed forces in unjust wars in service of the profits of the rich and not in the interest of spreading or protecting democracy.

all things considered, your choice was, at best, naive.

have no fear, i will never thank you for voluntarily serving the interests of u.s. imperialism.

[HEyHEY]

62. Spoken like someone who had choices in life.

Of course, this guy is saying he'd like those in the USA actually elect people who won't send off the military to unjust wars, but fuck him right? It's your turn to be sanctimonious and angry. Feel good?

[Pacifist Patriot]

65. *sigh*

My Ignore list continues to grow by leaps and bounds.

[HEyHEY]

66. huh? You talking to me?

[Pacifist Patriot]

69. Not at all.

The person to whom you responded gave me the willies. Life's too short to read such tripe.

[HEyHEY]

71. Yeah, I remember when I was 18 and had Rage Against the Machine albums though

Maybe we should cut him some slack? Nah! ;)

[sirthomas66]

73. The beginning of wisdom is silence.

[SmileyRose]

63. My husband thanks every soldier and policeman he sees

he's thanking them for their willingness to try to protect his rights as a US citizen. And he says "Thank you for your willingness to serve." He volunteers for the USO at the Atlanta airport so he gets more than a few opportunities.

My husband even thanks the TSA workers and airline pilots for being willing to keep coming to work after 911

if any recipient of the "thank you" has not liked it, they'd kept it to themselves.

[Pacifist Patriot]

64. I learned this from my dad, a Vietnam veteran. When I encounter a Vet...

I just warmly say, "Welcome home." I'm afraid anything else will be insensitive or condescending. I cannot possibly know what he or she has experienced, but I do know I'm glad he or she is back.

[maxrandb]

67. I Hate it as well

and there are many reasons why, but I think the most glaring is that it makes it seem like I deserve some type of "special" praise for "protecting" the freedom of America. Unlike Bush and the Repukes, I happen to believe that "Yes! Freedom is FREE!". I could no more take it away than I could earn enough money to buy a politician, but I digress.

What irritates me is that it elevates me to a level I don't deserve. Teachers, Lawyers, Firefighters, Police, Refuse Engineers, the guy who works 60 hours a week in a factory to provide a living for his family....ALL DO AS MUCH IF NOT MORE TO PROTECT AND DEFEND THE AMERICAN DREAM as I do.

Trust me, this is as much an ordinary job as there is. Just because I wear a uniform does not make it any more "special" or worthy of thanks.

The other thing that bothers me is that the people that feel the need to say "Thank you" are more than likely doing it out of guilt than for any real appreciation.

I had a lady that came up to me once while I was waiting for lunch at a Chinese restaurant and "thanked" me, and then proceeded to tell me how much her and her friends just loved President Bush. I told her I was actually a Democrat, and then she mentioned her kids...I smiled and said; "Oh, where are they serving?"

Of course, they weren't. They were tooooooo busy with school and work, but....she just "loved" Bush.

I think I ruined her lunch, but that's OK.

[Rozlee]

74. I was a non-combatant, helping injured American soldiers and Iraqis

as a nurse. But, that still didn't mitigate the guilt of feeling that I represented an occupying force that had caused the injuries to those Iraqis to begin with. Some of those Iraqi civilians even displayed a form of Stockholm Syndrome. They actually felt grateful for the care we gave them subsequent to the traumatic injuries that our forces had caused them. I didn't join the military out of a sense of patriotism or love of country although I do love my country. At the time, I joined because I had nothing but a string of minimum wage jobs before me as far as the eye could see and two children to support on my own. The Army lured me in with promises of free LVN school with the GI Bill to finish college and go on to get an RN degree. I have to give them credit. They delivered. They also didn't bullshit me; they told me there was also a possibility there would always be a chance I'd go to war. I glamorized it. I'd be Florence Nightingale, being an angel of mercy to the wounded. I just didn't understand how terrible it would feel knowing that the wars I'd be in would be unprovoked, immoral ones and that the injured would be innocents that would haunt my dreams to this day.

Yeah, when anyone says "Thank you for your service," I smile and nod. But, those wounded and dying Iraqis no doubt would have been better off if I'd never served at all.

[SaveAmerica]

82. Rozlee, please please don't let the guilt stay in your head

I know that must be easier said than done, but if you could shake even some of it you will be better off in the long run. Do you have someone to talk to? Are you near a VA hospital? If you haven't done any group therapy meetings for PTSD, please start as soon as you can. You might not be able to clear it all out of your head, but the more you learn about why you are where you are in your mind, the better you'll be. I think the more caring you are, the worse the effects of your deployment and PTSD will be. Take care of you now, I'll be thinking of you.

[JVS]

81. Max should know that we don't get to make those decisions.

[soryang]

90. Implied in the thank you is that something was accomplished...

...as a flat generalization I find that to be nonsense, although it could be true in certain cases. I think a medic, physician or nurse is most likely deserving of thanks, as to others I'd have to know more about what they did over there.

On the whole the wars have accomplished nothing of benefit. So what is the thanks for?