Message to Barack Obama : Protect Social Security or give up the Presidency.

[kentuck]

The choice is yours.

[ProSense]

1. Come on

Everyone knows he's not going to do either of those things!

The reports clearly indicate he wants the cuts.

[whosinpower]

4. Prosense?

Et tu?

[damntexdem]

8. Primary challenges!

Protests in the streets.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

13. And how do you feel about it?

[Lorien]

24. Wait...what?

Where's the little blue linkies that suggest that Obama would never support cutting social programs?

[Cherchez la Femme]

51. Sssshhhhh

:whisper: can't mention them.
That's deleted message time.

[Cali_Democrat]

28. Hmmmmmmm?

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dept of Beer]

45. Perhaps the persons was fired from their job

and are spilling?

[Sparkly]

33. "... he wants the cuts."

Enough said then.

[McCamy Taylor]

49. He WANTS the cuts? If he lets that bit of pr go viral, he is toast in 2012.

If Obama does not get his act together quickly, he will be beaten by either Mitt Romney or Rick Perry or possibly a combo of the two in 2012. Dems will lose the Senate because he will have no coattails. And people like Prosense will claim that it is the fault of "fringe" Democrats who were not willing to see their moms eat cat food for the greater glory of Obama.

Obama has one job----get himself elected again in 2012 and help out Democrats in Congress. And yet, he insists upon emulating (not Reagan) but Bush Sr. And we know what happened to Bush Sr.

Prosense, have you dumped Obama? Is that why you are posting things like "He wants the cuts"? If you meant that to be sarcasm, please use the sarcasm icon. Folks like you are the president's worst enemy right now.

[rhett o rick]

62. Doesnt make sense. Why would Obama do something that will lose him the race? nm

[defendandprotect]

83. Seems something else is more important to him -- and I don't think it's conscience --- !!!

The corporate money is probably weighing him down --

but imagine the rewards when he leaves office!!

[avaistheone1]

136. $$$$$ IMAGINE $$$$$

K&R

[snappyturtle]

177. Bingo! nt

[Myrina]

119. He's not going to lose ...

.... he's a Corporate Trojan Horse. Run as a Dem, talk all progressive, get the voters out in droves, & when elected he took off the mask and is governing like the Republican he really is.

Mid-terms/re-election cycle, the GOP - as directed by their corporate bankrollers - will run some totally implausible batshit loony candidate that they KNOW has a 2% chance of winning. The Dems will suck it up with "what other alternative do we have?" and re-elect President Trojan Horse and the corporates get 4 more years to implement the rest of their Kabuki class-warfare policies.

[n2doc]

128. With a Republican Senate and House

So that Obama has 'no choice' but to go along.

[rhett o rick]

129. I agree except for one thing.

He doesnt need the left but he needs the middle badly. He would have it won if he doesnt mess with SS and Medicare. If he does he will lose a lot of the middle. I agree that our overlords will run some bat-shit crazy against him, but if he messes with SS and Medicare he is risking it.

I think this may be a ploy to "save SS and medicare" but having to give up something in return. What do the Repukes want more than anything?

[INdemo]

175. Not if we organize a progressive party..

We have many progressive candidates we could choose from to represent our party and we could win..

[ThomThom]

182. You may be speaking the truth

the fix maybe in ...... again

[defendandprotect]

84. It's over -- Obama is toast now -- could never be trusted again re 2012 ....

and we need a new contender for 2012 --

[rhett o rick]

130. But who can defeat him? The overlords will run a bat-shit crazy against him,

guaranteeing him victory. The left is screwed with no where to turn.

[defendandprotect]

189. The nation is in a mood to totally overturn the CONGRESS -- both parties --

they know what's going on --

possibly also now recognizing the role computers have been playing in all

of this since the late 1960's -- ?

But I think we have to find out what's left of government and the party --


Also keep in mind that nation has woken up to the corporate control over

government, but corporations can't go anywhere without the protection of

our MIC/CIA --

CIA destroyed the Carter administration, imo --

which, imo, was really about putting Poppy Bush into the presidency --

they say after the attack on Reagan, Bush was president --


Poppy Bush might have been our first CIA presidency --

Certainly Bush/Cheney showed signs of that in Cheney's control over CIA --

They'll be back for it -- !!

[ooglymoogly]

152. Grayson is acting like a contender.

We can only prod push and hope. I believe he is waiting to be pushed....Grayson-Sanders. Thats a winning ticket.

[BobbyBoring]

158. I would do anything I could to get Grayson in!

I put a lot of effort in to Obama and have never regretted anything more. I don't think that would be the case with Alan~

[ooglymoogly]

166. I'm in that boat.

I think Grayson would go viral if he chooses to run.

[robinlynne]

135. hisjob isto get elected? THAT NOTION IS the problem.

[The Green Manalishi]

157. To paraphrase Harry Truman

People will vote for an out and out Republican who at least admits what they intend to do to them, rather than someone claiming to be a Democrat who is obviously going to do all the same things a Republican would.

I prefer President Obama to any potential Republican, and will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is in 2012, but I think we should get Jimmy Carter to walk around rattling some chains here.
In my observation and opinion, he has centrist tendencies that might have been highly effective in good economic times and without two or three wars going on, but I think a lot of Americans would rather double down on batshit crazy, on either side of the road, than share the fate of a flat armadillo.

Our next president is going to be either FDR or Ronald Reagan. The only people who are going to get off their asses in the primaries are going to be driven by ideology and a sense of panic; it just remains to be seen if there are more of such people on the l;eft or the right.

Of course, I could be wrong, I hope I am.

[Bryn]

54. I am getting worried about you

It's not like you. Maybe one of your kids is at your computer?

[JDPriestly]

70. Then he should give up the presidency.

What a two-faced _____. Worse than I have ever dared imagine.

This is unbelievable.

[defendandprotect]

85. Founders spoke about "suspending administrations" ... We need a RECALL -- !!

[MissDeeds]

93. Agreed

The next best thing is a primary. Maybe Dems in DC are getting the message that this guy doesn't play for our team and will realize the only way out is with a primary challenger.

[defendandprotect]

188. Agree with you overall ---

but we can also see that it's more the RARE Democrat who is complaining about

anything the Dem Party/Obama is doing -- too little of it -- too much SILENCE

for too long --

Rather it looks to me like the nation wants to completely OVERTURN this Congress --


Also keep in mind that corporations don't travel alone -- they need the protection

of our MIC/CIA --

CIA destroyed Carter --

Poppy Bush administration gave CIA control over presidency --

Bush/Cheney imo was another closely affiliated with CIA --

They'll be back for it -- !!

[Bandit]

104. He may do one willingly and the other because of his actions.

I seriously doubt he will win re-election if he cuts SS and Medicare without substantial tax hikes...If he continues to capitulate to the Tea Baggers at every opportunity, he can not claim the mantle of being a Democrat. Actions speak much louder than words..

[Ganja Ninja]

105. Whatever meds your on keep taking them.

They seem to be working.

[_ed_]

121. You forgot to post a bunch of links and photos

that prove nothing.

[_ed_]

127. What the fuck are you talking about now?

This makes even less sense than when you post 45 links that mean nothing.

Running out of propaganda to post? Did the central DLC office not send out the talking points on time today?

[creon]

140. Prove it

[DainBramaged]

169. Meh, meh and meh

you don't speak for us.

[Lucky 13]

2. Your threats don't scare him.

He's not listening. And he does he care.

Now prepare for your portion of the "shared sacrifice".

[Autumn]

3. I called the White House, I told them that

if they were going to keep SS and medicare cuts on the table and if any bill is passed with cuts to those programs, I would hope he would have the decency to say he will not run in 2012.

[Liberalynn]

I emailed them that.

[Liberalynn]

5. dupe

[donheld]

76. +1000

[EFerrari]

6. That's not enough. If the Democrats allow this to happen,

and the Republicans need their help just like they needed Chris Dobbs and Bernie Franks for the bail out, we need to demand new leadership. We need a new slate of people leading this party.

[nashville_brook]

9. +1000000

[swilton]

19. Totally agree

I'm not versed well enough in US party politics to develop a plan - We have the ideas and there is public support - I wish there were candidates.

There is a big umberella protest happening in DC on October 6 -

October2011.org

[crazyjoe]

98. yes, because DC protests have been so effective lately.

[woo me with science]

20. +100000

[swilton]

23. October 2011

OPEN LETTER: THE U.S. OCTOBER 2011 MOVEMENT STANDS IN SOLIDARITY WITH OUR GLOBAL ALLIES
Inspired by the courageous, nonviolent uprisings in Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen, Greece, Spain, and elsewhere, people in the United States have come together to form the October2011 Movement. This fusion of peace, social justice, environmental, student, and immigrant rights organizations is in solidarity with all who seek a peaceful, just, and sustainable future and stands ready to engage in its own campaign of nonviolent resistance beginning in Washington, D.C., this October.

http://october2011.org/welcome

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1235538

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x601892

[Lorien]

25. Agreed. It will be time to organize like never before. nt

[deacon]

59. I am now on this bandwagon. A bad deal = someone else 2012. He won't leave us a choice. n/t

[marions ghost]

94. A worthy goal...logical, sensible

ie. "demand new leadership" in the Dem party. But where would it get us? If we don't vote, then we get a takeover by our worst enemies like what happened in 2010.

These times are not responsive to this kind of logical approach. Politicians in general don't listen to the will of the people. I'm tired of the whole charade that they do. The few who do have our interests at heart don't have the power.

If Obama didn't hear us, after all the "Change" rhetoric, then who will? Obama's administration proves beyond all doubt that our corporate masters rule both parties. We are disenfranchised pawns in their game.

:argh: I don't have any answers.

[defendandprotect]

190. From what I'm seeing ....

the nation is in a mood to overturn all of Congress -- both parties --

they know what's going on -- and they know it's not just Repugs ---


Below is copy of a surprising e-mail I got from an acquaintance the other day --

just out of the blue --



However, imo, we need to find out exactly what's left of our government --

and the party --

We also have to understand that corporations can't stand alone -- they need the

MIC/CIA --

CIA destroyed Carter's presidency --

Poppy Bush may have been our first real CIA president ---

and certainly Bush/Cheney saw Cheney with strong affiliation with CIA --

They'll be back for it -- !!



................


Sent: 7/18/2011 9:39:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: Fwd: Charley Ressee's final column: 545 vs. 300,000,000 People


Charley Reese's final column for the Orlando Sentinel...
He has been a journalist for 49 years. He is retiring and this is HIS LAST COLUMN.

Be sure to read the Tax List at the end.

This is about as clear and easy to understand as it can be. The article below is completely neutral, neither anti-republican or democrat. Charlie Reese, a retired reporter for the Orlando Sentinel, has hit the nail directly on the head, defining clearly who it is that in the final analysis must assume responsibility for the judgments made that impact each one of us every day. It's a short but good read. Worth the time. Worth remembering!

545 vs. 300,000,000 People
-By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.

What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? John Boehner. He is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the President, can approve any budget they want. If the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.

If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it's because they want them in Iraq and Afghanistan ...

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

They, and they alone, have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.

Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees...

We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!


What you do with this article now that you have read it... is up to you.
This might be funny if it weren't so true.

Be sure to read all the way to the end:

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table,
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for
peanuts anyway!

Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.

Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his ass.

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid...

Put these words
Upon his tomb,
'Taxes drove me
to my doom...'

When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Sales Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax


STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What in the heck happened? Can you spell 'politicians?'

I hope this goes around THE USA at least 545 times!!! YOU can help it get there!!!

GO AHEAD. . . BE AN AMERICAN!!!

[TheKentuckian]

7. Amen

[kentuck]

11. Social Security should not even be in this debate.

That is the money that belongs to the working people of this country. It is a contract signed with the government and it fully paid for until about 2036. It did not cause the deficit or the debt problem.

I would suggest to the Republicans, and the Democrats, that if they do not intend to pay back the working people's money, then do not borrow it in the first place. Those are hard-earned dollars that working people pay into Social Security. It belongs to them, not the politicians.

[sad sally]

14. Economist Dr. Allen Smith sez' we should get it this way:

The entire article is worth reading - prepare to be madder than hell...


http://ampedstatus.org/how-your-social-security-money-was-stolen-where-did-the-2-5-trillion-surplus-go/#oba?du

The Social Security Trust Fund should currently have $2.5 trillion in surplus. So how is it that these checks could stop being issued if the debt ceiling isn’t raised? Economics professor Dr. Allen Smith, author of The Looting of Social Security: How The Government is Draining America’s Retirement Account, has been reporting on the theft of Social Security funds for years. As he sums it up:

“The government’s $2.5 trillion debt to Social Security is the real reason that so many politicians want to cut benefits. They are trying to find a way to avoid having to repay the looted money…. Given the fact that much of the surplus revenue from the 1983 payroll tax hike ended up in the pockets of the super rich in the form of income tax cuts, I propose a special tax on this group of taxpayers to recoup the missing Social Security money. The government used revenue from the Social Security payroll tax hike to fund tax cuts for the rich because that was where the money was. I think the government should recover the ‘embezzled’ money by taxing the rich.”

[woo me with science]

21. Spot on post. nt

[Bryn]

53. Ditto!

Yes, it's spot on! 10000+

[Lorien]

26. This deserves it's own thread. nt

[louslobbs]

65. I absolutely agree.

Lou

[Cali_Democrat]

29. Thank you for that. n/t

[OwnedByFerrets]

37. Please make this its own thread

[sad sally]

44. I linked the entire article with "The IOU's in the Social Security Trust Fund"

post earlier this afternoon, which included this paragraph:

On October 13, 1989, Senator Ernest Hollings of SC stood on the Senate floor and warned, “…the most reprehensible fraud in this great jambalaya of frauds is the systematic and total ransacking of the Social Security trust fund…in the next century…the American people will wake up to the reality that those IOUs in the trust fund vault are a 21st century version of Confederate bank notes.”

Too bad we don't have a few more senators like Hollings and Monynihan in the Senate to help Senator Sanders tell Americans the truth about the scam we're about to be witness to and feel the brunt of. What's coming down the road is going to hit us and generations far into the future like a semi truck loaded with concrete. I have very little faith in either the President or congress to do the right thing.

[Frisbee]

124. Agreed, this should be it's own thread on the front page! n/t

[Raster]

66. Now THIS is the post I want to recommend!!!

“The government’s $2.5 trillion debt to Social Security is the real reason that so many politicians want to cut benefits. They are trying to find a way to avoid having to repay the looted money….

[erebusman]

100. end wars + end tax cuts would do it

and then some...

[Raster]

187. Wars and tax cuts benefit THE RICH. Good luck with that!

[truedelphi]

78. Never heard of this man Allen Smith,

but I am liking everything he says. Thank you for posting this.

[jtown1123]

108. I urge you not to buy Allen Smith...there are much better and credible experts out there...

[Enthusiast]

86. I like it! nt

[MissDeeds]

96. Great post

Thanks for bringing this article to our attention.

[myrna minx]

102. I wish I could recommend your post. n/t

[jtown1123]

106. Please don't quote Allen Smith

He's not a credible SS expert. When you say SS is stolen, that allows Congress to get away with not paying it back. Please read NCPSSM, CEPR, CBPP, etc. if you want good SS info.

[RaleighNCDUer]

142. +1 - I wish i could kick a post.

Perhaps this should be a thread of its own.

[FLyellowdog]

171. If a deal isn't reached,

whether there's money or not for SS checks, who will be working in the offices to send them out? There's a lot more to this than just the amount of money in the coffers. A government shut down means no one manning the posts and no work getting taken care of. Just a thought...

[mochajava666]

173. Excellent point. This clarifies as to why SS cuts are linked to debt.

[Blue_In_AK]

16. There are some here at DU who are suggesting

that the social security money is NOT ours. That doesn't make sense to me, since I paid into it for 44 years, but you can't argue with the "new" Democrats, you know.

[xiamiam]

18. well you cant argue with anyone with an agenda or a roll to play

i'm probably not allowed to say it but it is my suspicion.at least in some cases

[littlewolf]

41. actually the SC has ruled you have no expectation of

getting any money from SS .....

[Blue_In_AK]

46. So if social security is all a mirage

why were they sending me all those notices for years telling me how much I could expect each month if I retired at 62-1/2 or 65, 67 whatever it is? Are you saying it's been a scam all along? That makes me even madder.

[indurancevile]

47. that's not what they ruled. but it is a right-wing talking point.

[Divernan]

50. What an outrageous claim to make with no substantiation.

Let's see the Supreme Court case citation, buddy with the language of the ruling quoted.

[littlewolf]

145. this is the first thing that came up on Bing

http://www.ssa.gov/history/nestor.html


The fact that workers contribute to the Social Security program's funding through a dedicated payroll tax establishes a unique connection between those tax payments and future benefits. More so than general federal income taxes can be said to establish "rights" to certain government services. This is often expressed in the idea that Social Security benefits are "an earned right." This is true enough in a moral and political sense. But like all federal entitlement programs, Congress can change the rules regarding eligibility--and it has done so many times over the years. The rules can be made more generous, or they can be made more restrictive. Benefits which are granted at one time can be withdrawn, as for example with student benefits, which were substantially scaled-back in the 1983 Amendments.

snip


In this 1960 Supreme Court decision Nestor's denial of benefits was upheld even though he had contributed to the program for 19 years and was already receiving benefits. Under a 1954 law, Social Security benefits were denied to persons deported for, among other things, having been a member of the Communist party. Accordingly, Mr. Nestor's benefits were terminated. He appealed the termination arguing, among other claims, that promised Social Security benefits were a contract and that Congress could not renege on that contract. In its ruling, the Court rejected this argument and established the principle that entitlement to Social Security benefits is not contractual right.


snip

from the Court


2. A PERSON COVERED BY THE SOCIAL SECURITY ACT HAS NOT SUCH A RIGHT IN OLD-AGE BENEFIT PAYMENTS AS WOULD MAKE EVERY DEFEASANCE OF "ACCRUED" INTERESTS VIOLATIVE OF THE DUE PROCESS CLAUSE OF THE FIFTH AMENDMENT. PP. 608-611.


(B) TO ENGRAFT UPON THE SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM A CONCEPT OF "ACCRUED PROPERTY RIGHTS" WOULD DEPRIVE IT OF THE FLEXIBILITY AND BOLDNESS IN ADJUSTMENT TO EVER-CHANGING CONDITIONS WHICH IT DEMANDS AND WHICH CONGRESS PROBABLY HAD IN MIND WHEN IT EXPRESSLY RESERVED THE RIGHT TO ALTER, AMEND OR REPEAL ANY PROVISION OF THE ACT. PP. 610-611.

[tavalon]

90. They've also ruled that corporations are people

Well, super people actually since they can spend as much money as they want in the political arena. This SC hasn't had any validity, IMO since 2000, when they appoint Bush the lesser. think about it, in 2000, only five people had a vote that counted in the Presidential election. Between Citizens United and the Bush v Gore bullshit, the court has no standing with me nor should it for any patriot.

[RaleighNCDUer]

144. I've wondered about that - if corporations are people, why aren't they

restricted to the same $2500 political donations that the rest of us are?

[rhett o rick]

132. I must have missed that. Do you have sources? nm

[Bryn]

57. I feel like we have no where to go!

I paid into it for 36 years before I took early retirement. I figured it to be around $300,000 for both SS and Medicare paid to retired people while I worked.

I am curious... today there is high unemployment, not enough jobs so where is money paying for current retired people coming from? When USA jobs go oversea, do their paychecks include SS/Medicare deducible for USA?

[trud]

114. where is money paying for current retired people coming from?

Everyone who's currently retired has paid more into SS, counting the compound interest earned, than they will ever see in benefits. This mime about the elderly being a drain on younger workers is Repig crap.

When USA jobs go overseas, the overseas workers are paid dirt, usually have no benefits, there are no expenses for pollution controls (ex: giant rivers of poison in China) and the US government lets those companies sell the products in the US without lifting a finger to put equalizing tariffs on them and then acts like it has no clue as to why there is high unemployment in the US.

[valerief]

125. New Dems are just recycled Repubs. nt

[Peregrine Took]

12. The only way we can show the Democratic party we won't tolerate being

lied to again by a pseudo liberal is to let this turkey slide.

[swilton]

39. There is a debate in DC going on now between

the Senate and House Democrats and Obama on this issue. Olberman covers it tonight in his interview with Schuster and Sanders on the video section of DU. According to this interview, Pelosi has been warned that not only will the Progressive Caucus not support this bill, it won't support her for House leader if she supports the President...the debate is ongoing.....

But perhaps it will be informative and prove telling about the Democratic Party - those that push this and those that try to stop it.

As our 'favorite' president used to say - You're either with us or agin us!

[Liberalynn]

42. sure hope the Progressive caucus sticks to this and the Senate

follows their lead.

[trud]

115. Nancy for Prez. n/t

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Creideiki]

17. Then look at the swing states

Can Hoover--oops, I mean Obama--win Colorado? New Mexico? Ohio? Wisconsin? While pulling this?

And when Hoover--oops, Obama--loses, what will happen to your cushy job monitoring message boards?

[white_wolf]

31. So we should just do nothing and let him destroy the safety net in the country?

You can do that if you want, but if he goes along with this attack on working people he won't get my vote or support.

[Kaleko]

32. Translation:

The democratic President of the US is not afraid of losing the support of YOU, the people. As long as he's doing the bidding of the Titans of Finance, he'll be protected as a valuable player.

"Get over yourself" means 'Abandon all your principles and moral convictions and follow your leader's example: cave!

[sabrina 1]

38. You heard what I heard. I wonder if people realize when

they are actually confirming what we have all suspected, or is it just accidental?

[Kaleko]

43. Unfortunately, the post we're responding to has now been deleted.

But in my experience, people tend to unconsciously express a deeper truth that they are hiding from themselves in just about everything they do and say. It is only a matter of being able to read people's inadvertent self-disclosures with a high degree of accuracy. If you can do that, you're swimming in a world of insightful, intuitive relatedness with everyone you come in contact with.

[sabrina 1]

64. Nicely said, as usual.

:-)

[Kaleko]

71. Thanks, Sabrina.

And the same right back atcha. :hi:

[creeksneakers2]

184. There's a better explanation for his motives

The debt is getting out of control. If we continue on the current path and interest rates go up we could be looking at $1 trillion a year in interest. Even now, our bond rating may be downgraded, costing us billions.

Obama is limited by what he can get through Congress.

I'd like to see him get us out of the world policeman business and eliminate the Bush tax cuts. I know eliminating the tax cuts isn't possible. I think he could do more on military spending if he tried harder. Even if I got everything I wanted, that wouldn't be enough to get the deficit eliminated.

Even though I don't agree with Obama on everything, and worry that he's about to cave, I don't suspect his motives. He's doing what he thinks is best for the country and is willing to sacrifice his presidency to do it.

[woo me with science]

22. I honestly don't know that he cares.

He will do fine either way. I really think we are witnessing the execution of a Master Plan that has been in the works for years, and I am sure that they considered this in the formulation of the plan.

We have two choices this election: Wall Street, and Wall Street.

[Blue_In_AK]

27. Is it fascism yet?

[swilton]

40. But one of the Wall Street choices was

extremely deceitful - I'll let you guess which one.

[BigDemVoter]

30. I'm angry too. . .

But let's be realistic. Obama is NOT going to step down. It's just not going to happen. I'm not trying to flame ANYBODY here; I'm just trying to stick with reality.

What can WE do to ensure our interests are at least considered? Saying we're powerless is not really an option, as ALL of us here vote, I'm sure (otherwise, why would we be wasting our time on a political website?).

We have the majority of Americans behind us, as people do NOT want to see cuts made to SS or Medicare. I was gratified to see that the AARP has already started playing ads warning the government not to even consider these cuts. What's it going to take? I now give MY money to Moveon.org and other oranizations that reflect MY values.

If we can't get our politicians to do what we want, we are responsible for changing things. It definitely looks like the repigs have overreached (as usual), and NOW may be our time to really let them have it.

Any thoughts on what we can do? I sometimes feel like we should just throw in the towel, but I really refuse to let these goddamn clowns cause the downfall of our country.

On edit: Obama needs to hear LOUD AND CLEAR what his constituents think of cutting SS & Medicare.

[JDPriestly]

72. We can repeatedly, loudly and clearly tell Obama and our

members of Congress that WE WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANYONE WHO VOTES TO CUT SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE.

As I have pointed out, I applied for and received my Social Security card during the Eisenhower administration.

He stated clearly that no administration would ever end the program.

Obama is beginning the end of the program. That is his goal.

He must go. He must resign.

Let's start picking a replacement candidate right away. There is no time to lose and there are a number of great candidates.

The candidates must review their own lives and voting records and honestly reveal their weaknesses at the beginning of our campaign for them. That is the key.

Let's get started.

[libmom74]

80. +100

[creeksneakers2]

185. Nobody is talking about ending the program

They are talking about cutting the rate it increases at by a quarter point.

[JDPriestly]

191. Cutting benefits is the first step in a very well considered

plan to end Social Security and Medicare and shift the money working people put into those programs into Wall Street's coffers.

We traditional Democrats tend to be naive about the real goals of the Republicans and Conservadems.

[Enthusiast]

87. He has heard loud and clear

until it is hurting his ears.

The military and the well being of the wealthy are simply a much greater priority than the "lesser people".

[Hell Hath No Fury]

34. I'm there.

I am a chicken and he is morphing into The Colonel.

Not. Gonna. Happen.

[OwnedByFerrets]

36. K and R

[Kaleva]

48. Yet no challenger will come forward.

[marasinghe]

52. often times, when the need arises, someone steps forward; or, is thrust forward by circumstances.

there was a Gandhi, a Dr. King, an FDR.
let's hope this is one of those times.
else, we in the bottom 4/5 of the capitalist pyramid - are right royally flushed.
:hurts:

[MissDeeds]

99. The need for new leadership

becomes more apparent with each passing day. I cannot believe that other Dems are okay with this. Too much of what they have fought for is being thrown under the bus by this president. Perhaps there are talks going on right now to find a replacement. Surely they aren't going to run the risk of Obama having a second term and four more years to push his right-wing agenda. Someone has to step forward.

[Moostache]

55. I would have profound respect for a resignation above cutting the New Deal to ribbons...

If he cannot or will not defend a cornerstone of the progressive movement (without so much as a simple LAPSE of the Bush/Obama tax cuts), then he would be better served in history to simply resign and let Biden serve out the next 18 months.

[Jim_Shorts]

56. Maybe its time for that epic 360 degree shitstorm

Talking heads on CNN are still touting the Medicare and SS are the major contributers to the debt story. I wish there were a way to counter the propaganda.

Common Dreams story "Barack Obama is gutting the core principals of the democratic party"
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/07/21-6

[upi402]

58. welcome

yes, the corporate media is the root of the evil going down

[JDPriestly]

73. Stop your cable subscription and write and tell your

cable company why you are doing it.

Watch Olbermann on Current, Cenk and other progressive sources (such as MSNBC) online and wean yourself of cable.

The internet permits you to pick and choose what show you want to watch.

[Enthusiast]

88. It ain't just CNN.

It's the universal media message.

[Scurrilous]

60. ROFL

The internets have spoken!!

[grahamhgreen]

61. Kick

[BlueCheese]

63. This really mystifies me.

In the past, I've often disagreed with Obama, but I understood his position. I thought he could have pushed much harder for a better health care bill, for example, but I understood the arguments of people who said it was the best we could do.

But this drive for deep budget cuts and trimming Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid is just bizarre. This isn't a debate between idealism and pragmatism, or liberalism and centrism. This is pod people territory here. This is far off what any Democrat should want that I really don't understand it at all.

Is this the same person who supported same-sex marriage and a single-payer health care system before entering national politics? You almost expect him to pull off the rubber mask to reveal the face of Ronald Reagan, except even Reagan didn't try to go this far.

[Poll_Blind]

69. It IS bizarro-land!

PB

[Hell Hath No Fury]

107. Your answer is right here -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1540315

Mad Floridian lays it out -- this is planned, this is what he has wanted all along. He is more dangerous than you know. :(

[shanti]

150. yes that post nails it

hamiltonian dem, and he IS in on it. it's like a punch in the gut! thanks for the link as i probably wouldn't have seen it.

[DeSwiss]

67. K&R

There ya go.....

DeSwiss

[JDPriestly]

74. Great quote from Dr. Martin Luther King, DeSwiss.

[Liberalynn]

109. Fantastic Quote

[tomg]

172. Thank you. Sometimes all

We have are the words to keep us going or to remind us why it is important. "because it is right." no better words.

[slay]

68. I agree

we don't need a Dem who is going to keep selling us out.

[democrank]

75. He should give up the presidency

and go back to Chicago for a spine implant.

[RaleighNCDUer]

146. I understand they're in need of a good mayor, there. nt

[truedelphi]

77. Unfortunately, in a banana republic, we citizens do not

Tell people in office what to do.

They do as they want.

Obama knows full well that the voting machinery is every bit as flawed as it was in 2004. He does the Puppeteers' Bidding, and they will arrange the votes quite nicely, as long as he's given those people what they want.

And unfortunately, what they want, is our nation, as a "democracy" to be in ruins. They want every last dime, and won't stop till they have it all.

[Denver Progressive]

79. Social security should not be on the table at all. Remember,

this "crisis" was created and manufactured solely by the Republicans. It was picked up and therefore somewhat legitimized by the media. We shouldn't have anything on the table at all because there is no way that the repubs will let the U.S. default and take money away from their wealthy plutocrat friends.

:kick:

[disillusioned73]

101. I agree completely, Although I'd add that the ..

Dems also, as you say - "picked up & therefore somewhat legitimized" the whole SS needs to be on the table meme.

The Dem "leadership" is failing us on many levels... sad.

[Roci]

81. If he doesn't..

The Presidency will be taken from him by the people. (As well it should be) He won't have any choice in the matter.

[BrightSideOfLife]

82. Absolutely resign in discrace for falling for this

douchebag republican agenda you dick Obama. Model your presidency after FDR not fricking Reagan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God that felt better. A little.

[WVRICK13]

89. I Agree

A friend argued with me yesterday, saying if you don't vote for Obama again in 2012 a Republican will get the White House. I asked her to explain the difference. Then I asked her where is our outrage about the wars and the tax cuts for the rich. We hated them when they were Bush's actions but now Obama gets a pass on the same shit. I didn't understand Republicans supporting Bush and I don't understand Democrats supporting Obama.

[MissDeeds]

91. Thank you!

Highly recommended

:kick:

[Hubert Flottz]

92. k&r

[liberal N proud]

95. I am telling you - unless people take to the streets

We are going to loose everything that was fought for in the early and mid 20th century.

We are too passive for democracy to work.

[neoralme]

113. Some will take to the streets, but it will be mainly older

mainstream Democrats and other Parties, including the tea baggers, who by now know they have been conned by their leaders. One of the main troubles is that much of the population came from other countries where standards of living were lower, and they now think things are great. So, even though some will take to the streets, it won't be enough to stop the collapse and complete transition into neofeudalism. Reagan began the journey to the end. Obama simply finished it. I will always wonder just what Obama's puppet-masters had on him to make him act so traitorously. Most of us who are old will never have seen a political scam anywhere close to this.

[ctsnowman]

134. Too true.

People died for these rights and they are going away without a fight.

[Vinca]

97. Rec.

The deficit cannot be paid off on the backs of the poor, elderly and disabled.

[blkmusclmachine]

103. Obama's already said he's O-K with 1 term. Apparently, it's all they needed him for.

n/t

[Liberalynn]

116. I just wish those words were truthful.

If they were then he would be withdrawing his bid for a second term. Of course then that might give some Democrat who might actually stand up for Medicare and SS a chance, and TPTB can't have that.

[trud]

110. even the independents don't like him any more

latest polling, losing the independents, 16% of Dems have an unfavorable view, Romney is tied with him. Romney, the guy who thinks it's okay to put the family dog on top of the car when driving on vacation.

That's what happens when you break 99% of your campaign promises and ignore major issues like outsourcing jobs and the environment.

[NorthCarolina]

111. I agree, but Obama does the bidding of Wall Street so the people will undoubtedly lose. n/t

[midnight]

112. He did say this deal would most likely end his presidency....

[Myrina]

117. What I would like to hear from POTUS:

"I shall not seek, and will not accept, the nomination of my party ..."

Don't go away mad, Sir, just go away. Let a real Democrat lead the country.

[neoralme]

118. Me too. And if I have to sell my car to do it, I

will be there to boo himn the day he walks off the podium for the last time.

[MissDeeds]

123. Agree completely

If only...

[ehrnst]

120. And the repugs would be better HOW? (nt)

[RaleighNCDUer]

147. And the repugs would be worse HOW?

Why not try putting a DEMOCRAT in the WH?

[Myrina]

151. ... at this point, there'd be no difference.

Both parties are totally owned and operated subsidiaries of Big Money. At least with an <R> in the White House, we wouldn't get this song and dance bullshit about 'shared sacrifice' and 'making it better by killing it' etc etc.

[truedelphi]

186. The Obama presidency was prophesized a long time ago by

The band that did: "Smiling faces..."

[polichick]

122. Maybe he only wants one term and then he'll cash in.

[neoralme]

137. The payoff will be immense, unless the payoff

is that whatever the Coporatists had on him won't be used.

[Smilo]

126. Who the hell is in the WH?

I thought there was a Democrat there, but looking at the news today and his deal with Boehner, and how the person who resides there is cow-towing to the GOPT, I have to wonder if we were taken big time.

[RaleighNCDUer]

148. pssst - the word you want is 'kowtowing'.

Cow-towing brings up some rather strange mental images.

And welcome to DU!

[sarcasmo]

131. + a Gazillion

[peace frog]

133. + a Brazillion Gozillion

[Faryn Balyncd]

138. The same should apply to every Senator and Representative.

[creon]

139. Proof

Please provide proof that what Obama is going to do.

[creon]

141. Panic

What I see here is blind panic.

Calm down

[felix_numinous]

143. We better come up with a candidate before talking like this--or at least a plan.

Everyone should make a list of demands and see who would run on OUR platform.

The People's Party
The People's Democratic Party
The Progressive Party
The Worker's Party

We cannot just take this and do nothing!!! Staying home and signing petitions, voting and logging onto this (wonderful) site and communing with each other is great--but we have to get out and rattle their cages. Otherwise we are just blips on a screen to them. We have to make it REAL (in a peaceful way, of course).

I hope there is a massive turnout in the Fall. We have to make a noise before 2012 or we will be screwn worse than we can imagine.

[ooglymoogly]

153. I repeat "Grayson is acting like a contender

We can only prod push and hope. I believe he is just waiting to be pushed....Grayson-Sanders. Now thats a winning ticket.

[felix_numinous]

160. I like.

:)

It is going to take a lot to go up against the MIC/PIC and RW propaganda machine, the Supreme Court, the RW in both house and senate--and we are going to have to commit to fighting tooth and nail to be listened to.

Changing this country means going up against all of these people. I think We The People need to write up the platform, and one by one, refuse to work or cooperate with the MIC until they are enacted:

A progressive administration not working for special interests
Take Bush/Cheney and Co to court for their war crimes
End the War on Terror and War on Drugs
FDRs 2nd Bill of Rights
End Corporate Personhood
Nationalize the Banks
Separate Church and State


Are we ready to play hard ball? That is what the RW are playing. WE have lost our voice but we are going to have to MAKE ourselves heard.

[ooglymoogly]

165. None of these things can or will happen till we elect a new congress

Even if, in the likelihood, that 0 "wins" another term. If both houses change to strong democrat with an emphasis on progressives (in this climate a real possibility) we have a good chance of doing all those things and overriding any veto from 0. Of course the best of all worlds right now is if an FDR type contender like Grayson throws his hat in the primary ring.

[felix_numinous]

179. An FDR contender is what we need.

We have given too much to the Republicans, they cannot have any more. Too many people are unemployed, struggling to make ends meet, or are out on the street. Some people who say that our insistence on receiving public assistance is hyperbole, that we should sit down and just play the game futher.


Many people do not have the time to play word games through another election and through another administration not willing to represent the poor. And others have all the time in the world. I agree, we need to clean house and senate too.

Peace ooglymoogly~~:)

[Inuca]

164. Not even in Vermont!

Get real! No matter how upset you may be with Obama, to claim that a ticket headed by a one term congresman that lost his bid for re-election is a "winning ticket" is amazing.

[ooglymoogly]

167. A stupifyingly ridiculous comment. nt

[shellgame26]

149. Yawn......

more hyperbole from the clueless

[ermasdaughter]

154. Oh come on you guys...

This thread is a bit over the top. I have been profoundly disappointed in this president but I cannot get behind a call for him to step down. The last decade has sent our country down a hillbilly hell-hole AKA the right leaning side of America. I'm not interested in revisiting that dark era. More over he's had to manage this willfully ignorant contingent to gain and maintain his presidency. His has been a perfect storm of impossibly challenging situations to govern and all in all he's done okay, not great but certainly passable. Which, in my opinion, in this political climate is not bad.

The goal now is to build on the some of his "centrist" accomplishments and move the country in a more healthy left-leaning direction.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

155. Obama reduced payroll contributions to SS, one more step to privatizing it

for the banksters.

[ooglymoogly]

168. And that body blow to SS has already been swept under the rug.

[man4allcats]

156. K&R!

:kick:

[Marrah_G]

159. I'm to the point where I don't think I will vote for him in 2012

If there is a left candidate I'll vote, otherwise I'll just stick to the local stuff. Almost everyone in DC is a lying sack of shit. There are a few who speak up but in the end usually toe the line.....

[neoralme]

161. That's what I'm doing. I would change my mind if a

real Democrat were running.

[ooglymoogly]

170. The least we can do is write in the candidate of our choice in the

primary. Mine will be Grayson or Sanders depending who has the most support at that time.

[Safetykitten]

162. He will not be re-elected...not. a. chance.

[SoapBox]

163. K & R

[INdemo]

174. Anyone that would vote for this guy in the Democratic primary is

not a Democrat..We need to draft a progressive candidate even if it means organizing a third party..But it wouldn't actually be a third party because we only have a one party system now..We have two branches of the Republicon Party..We have the Republicrats and the Republicons..both are owned by the corporate mafia..
I find it very difficult to believe this guy was able to pull this con job over on Democratic voters...

[Fire Walk With Me]

176. I =depend= upon my disability insurance. Don't cut it, or anyone else's!

Cut the damn military entitlements first. Halliburton got $100 to clean each 15 pound bag of soldier's laundry in Iraq. I fucking say cut the military entitlement first, or better yet, pay ME that money. I can possibly do a bag of laundry a day for that much money; it would FAR more than I currently "live" on.

Want to know about social security disability? I'm nearly 50, used to have a great income and time in a job in music technology, had a car, apartment, lovely music gear (and I'm one of those who can hear the difference and it DOES matter, music is food for me)...now I'm one of twelve men living in a tiny 3-bedroom house with one bathroom and little choice in food, people begging for nicotine, mental illness, prostitutes outside on the street...I'm grateful for some place to stay, do not get me wrong, there aren't many of them so you have to be grateful, but fuck...they call this "entitlement"?

Kick me in the nuts every month instead of lowering the payment I EARNED from what I put into the system as taxes. Fucking republicans. Fucking democrats who won't defend the weak.

A society is judged by how it treats its weak.

[TxVietVet]

178. No Quarter!

With reasonable men, I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will certainly be lost.
William Lloyd Garrison

[LetTimmySmoke]

180. K&R

I'm willing to abstain on the presidency.

[azmesa207]

181. Protect SS

It seem there a lot of buyers regret in the Democratic Underground these day and well there should be . You all Bashed Clinton and the few that back her were based as well it seems he more a Reagan republican than a Democrat after all .

[Vidar]

183. Most highly recommended.