I wonder if we can by pass the multinational corporate hold on

[mmonk]

the political process by forming co-ops that pool their money together and reopen closed factories. After the shock doctrine was implemented down south, they did this. We could have CEO's that are elected for terms and the CEO accepts not to be paid more than four or five times what the others make. What do you think?

[Vincardog]

1. That is the only solution to the fascist capitalistic state we find ourselves in. Employee OWNED

businesses. We have to kick the parasites out of our economic system.

[mmonk]

3. It would definitely add a new dimension in this country

and give the people some stability and choice.

[OneGrassRoot]

5. Other countries are kicking our butts in this regard. The UK...

has a really vibrant co-op industry. There's nothing close to it yet here.

Like I said, I've been really looking into this in depth for the last year.

[mmonk]

6. I knew this would be right up your alley.

You're way ahead on this.

:-)

[bluestate10]

17. True. But enlightened owners are an acceptable option.

This thread is fun. Finally a thread that probes how we can impose our will instead of threads filled with whining and hero worship.

[leftstreet]

2. I think we should make beer. Fortify it with vitamins, minerals and antioxidants

You think I'm kidding?

:o

[bluestate10]

18. Reduce the alcohol content some and go for it. nt.

[OneGrassRoot]

4. That's exactly the kind of thing I've been obsessed with....

and working toward. ;)

I have many links in the small business forum here, gathering information, and have gathered much more not posted since then.

I'm enamored of all types of co-ops: worker co-ops, member-owned co-ops, professional co-ops, marketing co-ops.

I think it's a great idea. Especially when there is a built-in community, people have a vested interest in the product or service, so that helps spread the word right there.

Marketing and PR is usually the hardest part for any venture, even if the idea alone is brilliant.

Creating co-op opportunities is one of my many goals via Wishadoo (and The Piece Process). I've been trying to find an attorney who won't charge a fortune who is familiar with new structures that are coming out (hybrids between non-profit and for-profit, for example), and the best way to organize a corporation to be able to implement cooperative ventures. Most aren't familiar with these new structures yet, and even fewer really know the best way to advise regarding co-ops. It's different, so that's understandable.

But I'm definitely with you.

:hi:

[Octafish]

7. K&R

Thank you, mmonk. Your proposal would create a direct guarantee between workers and the wealth they produce -- a system all can believe in, work for, and live with.

[mmonk]

8. OneGrassRoot is more of the expert on this subject.

I originally started thinking about it through something Naomi Klein did. But thanks.

[OneGrassRoot]

9. Oh, I wouldn't say that...lol

But I AM very interested and have been for decades, and have actively been gathering information in the last year regarding how to implement co-ops (beyond the typical farm and utility) here in the States.

Getting OTHERS interested in it has been the challenge lately.

If anyone truly wants to start brainstorming about this, I invite anyone to join me here, or we can gather in the small business forum here at DU.

:hi:

[mmonk]

10. I will soon. I've been going back and forth between here, my work,

forth coming bills, and Christmas. My head is spinning right now.

[OneGrassRoot]

11. No worries! :)

Maybe I (or someone) will have found an attorney who can guide such a project in the meantime, and whoever is interested can gather and hit the ground running after the first of the year to see how viable some of these ideas are.

:)

[eomer]

12. That's just what I've been thinking lately.

We give our money and our labor to the multinationals and they use it to own our government and thereby essentially own us too. There doesn't seem to be any way to break the cycle other than denying them our money and labor that they use against us.

http://www.mondragon-corporation.com/language/en-US/ENG.aspx">Mondragón Corporation is a pretty interesting example.

[mmonk]

13. Thanks for the link.

Interesting.

[OneGrassRoot]

14. Here is a collection of links that may be of interest:

I started collecting and posting items of interest re: co-ops; Mondragon was one of the first ones, I believe, as they are a WONDERFUL example of what can be done.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=264&topic_id=454&mesg_id=454

:hi:

[handmade34]

27. no time right now

but very interested... will be in touch

[Octafish]

28. Thank you.

Sunset and Moonrise Over Monument Valley

From Detroit: Thank you!

[eomer]

37. Thanks, good stuff. Here are some more links from drilling into yours:

Here's video from the 2010 National Worker Cooperative Conference at UC Berkeley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_KWPFqOI84

The conference was co-hosted by the U.S. Federation of Worker Cooperatives, whose website is:

http://www.usworker.coop.

From that website, here is a page with handouts and other documents from the 2010 conference:

http://www.usworker.coop/content/2010-conference-workshops

[OneGrassRoot]

38. I've gathered more in the last few months...

Need to collect them and get everything in one place, and add yours to the list!

:hi:

[mmonk]

15. Any who are looking for change that can be done organically

without dependence on the politicians, take a look and maybe this is something that can engage you.

[bluestate10]

21. Opportunities abound. many can be launched on a shoestring.

The internet is an enormously powerful tool. The Net allowed person to person marketing whereas during the past, one had to work through a smoke filled room to reach customers.

I am creaming my shorts, I so love this thread. I have been on DU for the better of one month and have not previously seen a thread that so hit at the heart of the problem that pesters our democracy; big, uncaring, rich companies and individuals that have power to change the national dynamics, but who view themselves as too small and weak to do so.

[OneGrassRoot]

34. LOL! I'm with you, bluestate10...

Excited about this thread. I've tried to generate discussion about this type of thing before, to no avail. I'm VERY grateful to mmonk for engaging those of like mind.

We don't have to feel so powerless; there ARE things we can do. We can at least try....

Thanks again, mmonk! :hi:

bookmarked

[bluestate10]

16. YES, YES, YES.

FINALLY! A DUer that hits the mark. Coops formed by a group of committed founders flourish. The important considerations is having a founding member with proven skill in the key areas of running a business, product development, product manufacturing, materials sourcing, finance, sales and marketing, transportation.

By forming coops, DU members can not only create jobs, they can start to define the shape of our nation a decade or more out. Running a business is hard work, there are many setbacks. But for a progressive that wants to shape the nation's direction, there is no more noble pursuit.

[mmonk]

22. I've been self employed in businesses most of my life.

I, of course, always did it the traditional ways. Since 2003, I've been a real estate broker but the bubble generated by the sub-prime scandals has smashed that in many ways for me. Ideas of co-ops facinate me, so I think I'll study up on structures. I think this may be a vehicle people can use to turn around communities and lives at this time.

[OneGrassRoot]

35. I really do think entrepreneurs must be given more support...

including from other regular citizens.

I've realized as I've tried to "gather the troops," so to speak over these last few months, that the way I think, versus the way most others think and approach things, is very different.

I've been a social entrepreneur my entire adult life, and even though I've been a single parent and literally live paycheck to paycheck, I'm much more inclined to think -- and DO -- outside the box and take chances. I think the fact that I've been self-employed, creating new ventures and now focused on what is essentially my life's dream at Wishadoo! which includes these cooperative initiatives, enables me to have a different take on things.

You evidently have a similar entrepreneurial background, mmonk, which is why we click so frequently on ideas. Plus, it sounds like our different strengths can complement one another; no doubt there are others here in this brilliant community to fill in other gaps.

:thumbsup:

We need more support from other citizens, and for them to join with us to realize we all have more power than it may appear right now. I firmly believe we can DO things as a community to start to turn things around.

:hi:

P.S. -- If people are interested and want to gather where we can brainstorm about this topic, I invite them to join Wishadoo, and this group. Alternately, perhaps we can use the small business forum here (I have a thread there devoted to co-ops but there is VERY little activity in that forum.

edit for typo and to add link

[OneGrassRoot]

39. Sorry, it's hard for me to NOT keep coming back here...lol

I wanted to mention that, since you have experience in real estate, one of the things that seems obvious to me, is the potential to convert and eco-retrofit existing, often abandoned structures. We see them everywhere we look and many of us ask why these buildings can't be converted for low-income housing and other Common Good initiatives (urban gardening/co-ops), etc.

It seems that would create jobs and do some serious GOOD.

I've found initiatives in very localized pockets (Milwaukee, if I recall, has a great program), but I don't understand why this can't be implemented as a national grassroots initiative, providing those with knowledge of real estate and zoning laws, as well as construction and eco-retrofitting, can spearhead it.

Okay, I'll really shut up for a while now...I'll try. :rofl:

[mmonk]

43. Funny you should mention that. One of the things I've been

thinking about was solar panels, solar shingles, water recapturing systems, and ways to reduce household energy costs. And I know what you mean about coming back. I keep coming back hoping this thread will be kicked in some manner to collect people and ideas.
:)

[OneGrassRoot]

44. And even that type of venture could be set up as a co-op...

I think people haven't responded to me previously (other than perhaps because I'm simply agitating or a pain in the ass...lol) because they don't realize the co-op structure can be applied to MANY types of industries and ventures.

It truly can be applied to ANYTHING, way beyond the more familiar food and utility co-ops: housing, healthcare, merchandising, publishing, manufacturing.

Certainly some are much more complicated than others to implement, and there are no doubt limitations here in the US due to tax and other restrictive laws that make it more difficult here, but once more people open their minds to the possibilities of how we can at least move in this direction, that will be a wonderful development, imho. We can then figure out how to do it.

:hi:

[mmonk]

45. It's because they are unfamiliar with co-ops.

You're neither agitating nor a pain the ass (obviously). You're one of the better minds around. Most minds in the US aren't geared with a co-op way of thinking.
:hi:

[Auggie]

19. Let's start with health insurance, okay?

[mmonk]

26. That would definitely fill a need.

And being a co-op would mean you wouldn't have to prop up a stock price to attract investors. But I have no idea how high capital reserves would have to be to cover requirements.

[yurbud]

20. one of the last things our government did to yugoslavia was demand they privatize last co-op

a chain of department stores.

Co-ops are kryptonite to oligarchs, which doesn't mean we shouldn't try, only that it can't be done without them noticing.

[mmonk]

23. I'm not going to worry too much about them at this time.

I saw the video from Naomi Klein and Avi Lewis where workers reopened factories in Buenas Aires. It made me understand it can be done when the multi-nationals take the jobs elsewhere. It's a matter of filling the void and need.

[yurbud]

31. I didn't mean that people shouldn't do it, just looking at all the angles.

[TheKentuckian]

24. The wealth disparity makes start up capital a tough nut and insane trade policy makes

competitiveness unlikely.

This is certainly a model we need more of to move forward but the deck is heavily stacked, the dragon has few and ever decreasing weak links in it's armor.

The need to stop digging the hole is crucial. We can't make the dragon's hide more and more invincible while trading our strength to delay the inevitable showdown.

Too much flight and not enough fight. We will be spent and desperate if we keep playing this game.

[mmonk]

25. I understand capital concerns as I have started several businesses

in my lifetime. The goal, I guess, would be to have enough capital in your pool to kick it off. And everyone, not just one or two, would have vested interest in its success. As far as trade goes, pick industries that have niche or growth potential. Picking the right community or sub metro area will be important as well. Do not take a box store chain on for example. Also, look at manufacturing processes as possibilities as well.

[badtoworse]

29. Is there a chance you could work through Fair Trade?

They open markets for people in developing countries that get frozen out of the more lucrative markets (like the USA)by the multinationals. We had a craft fair at my church a few years ago and sold a lot of goods that were made by craftspeople in poorer countries.

It's probably a long shot, but it might be worth an inquiry.

[mmonk]

30. There are all kinds of possibilities.

I used to buy and sell in different markets through trade missions and embassies. Of course, the key here is also to provide jobs in our communities and I suppose import to resale is a possibility or product finishing.

[Norrin Radd]

32. kr

[Hannah Bell]

33. good idea, how to organize it & how to organize it so that people will trust each other with their $

in the latin american case, the people had worked together a long time & trust was already established.

there are lots of good ideas. how to organize them, that's the missing piece.

[mmonk]

41. I agree.

[Capitalocracy]

36. Spot on.

Very good idea. Go.

[rucky]

40. That's how Argentina recovered from their financial crisis:

Worker-owned cooperatives. Check this out, if you haven't yet: http://www.thetake.org/

[mmonk]

42. Yep. Exactly.

And it's always good to have a blueprint that has worked.

[rucky]

46. kicking

[bigmonkey]

47. I'm sorry I haven't had time to read the responses

but I thought I'd mention the nascent resurgence of local manufacturing, as a result of the continued development of computer design and 3-D printing. These factory buildings could indeed house very productive local manufacturing.

Quick development of the possibilities could preclude the branding of such activity as dangerous to the security state.