I make well under 250k and my taxes are going to go up

[Freetradesucks]

with the new health care laws.

I participate in a flexible spending account through my employer, and over the counter medications and items will be exempt in 2011.

How is that fair? This change affects everybody regardless of income, and it's a new tax.

[Skink]

1. I make under 20,000 and my health care goes up every year.

[Uben]

3. My premiums alone are more than $20K/yr

If you get cancer, you're outta luck. They just keep raising it and raising it. It's been eight years since surgery, no signs of cancer, but premiums have gone up 400%.

[Freetradesucks]

4. Ok, but that is due to an increase by your insurance provider.

This is a new TAX implemented by the Obama administration.

[piedmont]

23. And your point is?

It's odious if your taxes go up, but no big deal if insurance premiums rise by a greater amount?

[uppityperson]

27. It's odious if you have to pay for OTCs with your own money but not if insurance premiums

rise by a large amount? Maybe that is the point? I am reading the thread and don't really see the point, or do but don't like the point I see.

[Freetradesucks]

28. What I'm pointing out is that

Obama has said that taxes will not go up on people making under 250K, as well as that their health care costs will not go up.

Both my taxes and health care costs have gone up. Period.

What I'm saying is that Obama did not tell the truth.

[uppityperson]

40. I don't think "their health care costs will not go up" was part of it since that is way to broad

what if you break a leg or need an operation or even if that OTC aspirin costs more due to grocery prices rising?

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

44. Are insults all you have? I don't think "their health care costs will not go up" was part of it...

I don't think "their health care costs will not go up" was part of it since that is way too broad. No, I'm not talking about inflation but "Obama has said that taxes will not go up on people making under 250K, as well as that their health care costs will not go up."

I disagree that he said "their health care costs will not go up". If you want to have a civil discussion, watch what you write. If your purpose here is to insult those who disagree with your assertions, I have no need to have anything to do with you.

[Freetradesucks]

46. You stated...

"even if that OTC aspirin costs more due to grocery prices rising?"

You are clearly talking about inflation or other market related costs.

I am talking about a new tax increase due to LEGISLATION by the Obama administration. Surely you understand the difference, don't you?? Don't you?


Here is a direct Obama government sponsored link stating that my health care costs will go DOWN by as much as $2,500. Additionally it states that If I like my current plan, nothing will change. Both blatant lies. I'm sure if I looked harder there are dozens of similar statements....

"Under the plan, if you like your current health insurance, nothing changes, except your costs will go down by as much as $2,500 per year."

http://change.gov/agenda/health_care_agenda/

[uppityperson]

48. Looks like you don't have "insurance" but a "flexible spending account"

It may seem like splitting hairs and it really is a way of getting around the laws and rules, but sometimes things like "flexible spending account" do not have to follow the same rules as "insurance".

From your quote "Under the plan, if you like your current health insurance, nothing changes, except your costs will go down by as much as $2,500 per year." So, you don't have "insurance" but a "flexible spending account". If you HAD "insurance", it would go down. So, not a lie.

BEFORE you start insulting me about this, I do not agree it should be this way. I've run across this from the provider angle, trying to get people's (what they think of as) insurance to pay for care, to authorize payment for care to find...it isn't insurance but a Trust, or FSA or some other thing that doesn't have "insurance" in it's name and doesn't need to follow the rules/laws applicable to "insurance".

It sucks. It is wrong.

Finally, you take the last 1/4 of what I wrote, and ignore the rest. Taking bits out of context is rather like statistics. You can try to prove anything but you end up with egg on your face.
"I don't think "their health care costs will not go up" was part of it since that is way too broad what if you break a leg or need an operation or even if that OTC aspirin costs more due to grocery prices rising".

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

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[uppityperson]

60. Maybe you need to read it again before insulting me again. Copy/pasting, now read again...

"BEFORE you start insulting me about this, I do not agree it should be this way.

It sucks. It is wrong."

OK, now go ahead and insult me on that.

What I wrote IS the spin, and IS how it is and IS wrong. I've been working to get this changed and feel it is very wrong.

OK, now go ahead and insult me on that.

Rather than you being outraged, how about reading what I wrote?

OK, now you can insult me on that.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[uppityperson]

62. AH.

You don't want any input, just to have us listen to you whine. Gotcha.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

65. I would not attempt to tell you how to feel, merely passing on information

I figure you have the right to feel as you do about things and I don't have the right to tell you how you "should" feel. All I am doing is passing on information about Insurance companies and their schemes and scams. Perhaps you missed, several times, where I said they were wrong. Somehow you are assuming that by passing on this info, and saying I disagree with their schemes/scams, that I am passing judgement on you. Somehow you are assuming that I am defending their schemes and scams which I am not.

And you dare accuse me of being a hypocrite.

[Freetradesucks]

47. BTW, yes he DID say that health care costs would

not only not go up, they would be reduced for my demographic.

[uppityperson]

49. health insurance costs. See above. eom

[Davis_X_Machina]

2. If you were really scratching...

....and couldn't put anything aside into the FSA, you wouldn't be buying OTC meds with tax-advantaged money now.

Don't see how that's a tax increase.

[Freetradesucks]

5. Believe me, this is not "extra" money.

We try to anticipate our co-pays and medication costs and put that amount into the FSA.

[Davis_X_Machina]

6. I do the same, for a family of 4...

...and max out every year without any OTC expenses from the FSA.

[Freetradesucks]

9. OK, but what does that have to do with me?

We use it buy medication for the children such as aspirin and many other things.

It is a change, and MY taxes are going up.

How can you justify a tax increase for somebody making well under the 250K threshold?

[Davis_X_Machina]

10. Your taxes are not going up.

The marginal rates of income tax haven't changed. The rules surrounding some categories of previously tax-advantaged purchases have.

[Freetradesucks]

13. And how is that not a tax increase?

Your spin is incredible.

Should I deserve this tax increase because I have health insurance, regardless of my income?

Is that what you are saying?

[Statistical]

50. And thus taxes paid are going up.

If previously one put $400 in medicine on the FSA and is in the 25% bracket they won't be able to in 2011 and will PAY and extra $100 in taxes.

Your belief that only a change in rate is a tax increase is nonesense. Try this on. Standard deduction goes to $0.00, exemption goes to $0.00 and you can't deduct mortgage interest, however rates remain unchanged. Is that a tax increase?

[Sheepshank]

57. and before FSA?

what a load a bull that you are linking FSA to HCR....unrelated and fwiw, fsa qualifiers are always in flux.

[Statistical]

64. Um not the exclusion of OTC drugs was specifically part of HCR.

It was used to make HCR look "cheaper". By including the exclusion all OTC drugs will be excluded from FSA purchases, thus be taxed, thus raising revenue and making net cost of HCR cheaper.

FSA holders were essentially sold out to camouflage the trust cost of HCR.

[KansDem]

7. I'm in the same situation

I believe the OP is referring to the situation wherein money is taken out of the paycheck to go into a pre-tax account for medicine. Now, with the new health-care insurance legislation, OTC medicines can not be purchased with the FSA card, meaning that we will have to pay for it out-of-pocket.

So, in essence, it's like getting a "tax increase."

Something similar happened to me some 10-12 years ago. I received a letter from the county telling me that wastewater removal will no longer be covered with my country taxes. Instead, I will be paying a bi-monthly "fee." That's right, I'll be paying for a public service with an additional "fee."

Horseshit! It's an additional "tax" and it means less money for me each month...

I live in a very red county: Repubs may hate taxes but they sure love fees!

[Politicub]

15. Might I suggest you re-read your benefits package info?

OTC medications are absolutely reimbursable from your FSA.

[Freetradesucks]

17. Spin. Almost a lie.

Doctors don't usually prescribe medications that are available OTC. Perhaps in rare cases where they want you to take a dose that is in excess of the OTC, but that's it.

[WillowTree]

32. While doctors usually...

....don't write prescriptions for OTC items, they certainly can. Frankly, a doctor could write a prescription for Kleenex if they wanted to.

With the HCR changes that will go into effect on 1-1-2011, your ibuprofen and NyQuil can still be reimbursed under your FSA, but you'll need to get a prescription or statement from your doctor to the effect that s/he recommended those items for you. That's Federal law and does not change from one FSA to another or one state to another.

[Statistical]

51. So to expense a $5 bottle of ibprofin I need to make an appointment with my doctor.

Paying $25 co-pay and wasting a half hour of Dr time.

This is somehow suppose to make health insurance costs go DOWN?

[uppityperson]

41. Mine does when the copay is less than OTC pay. Not a lie there. Or a spin.

[KansDem]

18. Now they are...

...but not after the new health-care insurance legislation goes into effect.

The Affordable Health Care Act enacted by Congress and signed into law by President Obama has mandated a new uniform standard regarding over-the-counter drugs and medicines. The changes take effect Jan. 1, 2011, apply to FSAs and health reimbursements accounts. No reimbursement will be made without your having a prescription from a physician. Health Savings Accounts and Archer medical savings accounts will also be subject to these restrictions.

These changes will not apply to insulin purchases (prescription or non-prescription), medical devices, deductibles/co-pays, glasses or contact lenses.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5769926/irs_issues_guidelines_for_purchase.html

I don't know what category insulin needles fall into, but there are a few other OTC medicines I have been able to buy with my FSA card that I don't believe I'll be able to use after 1/1/2011.

It'll have to be "out of pocket."

[silverlib]

21. Mine are not...

started with the new contract in September 2010. OTC's are no longer covered. I think the OP is reading his plan correctly.

[Scruffy1]

45. Besides which FSA only changes withholding

Taxes are figured at the end of the year. It's just a way of taking your refund earlier. I consider it a scam shell game where the banks make big dollars off of the float.

[Statistical]

52. You an uninformed.

The amount of FSA contribution directly reduces taxable income on your W-2.

So if you make $50,000 and have $1,000 FSA (or HSA) your W-2 would show $49,000 taxable income.
401K work exactly the same way.


You honestly though people used FSA to get refund earlier? Really you know you can set your withholding to anything you want right? No need for an FSA.

[Sherman A1]

20. I have always had a sewer bill, it was never part of my

taxes. That said I completely understand your point and agree with you, it was a backdoor tax increase.

In our local community, in the past we could contract for our own solid waste hauler and there were lots of them. I choose to recycle like crazy and work out a deal with a neighbor for my one small bag of trash each week, so I had no trash bill.
Then the County imposed a program whereby everyone would use the same hauler, they would negotiate the contract and you will be billed by that hauler (failure to pay the bill will get you a fine from the government). That to me was a tax increase, just as moving the SS retirement age upward is also a back door tax increase.

[Politicub]

8. Wrong - they're not exempt

If you get an over the counter medication, you need to get a prescription in order to get reimbursement from your FSA.

But non medication items - contact solution, bandaids, etc. - are treated the same as they always have been.

Typically people who have an FSA have health insurance, so the added requirement shouldn't be an issue for you.

On edit: fixed my reading comprehension.

[Freetradesucks]

11. Reading comprehension is a virtue.

I said "I make WELL under 250K".

Regardless, It's a tax increase to me and my family.

So far every response is in support of this tax increase on working families. Why?

[WillowTree]

30. How is it a "tax increase"...

....when you can still claim those items under your FSA if you just submit a statement or prescription from your physician along with your receipts? The coverage for those items won't change, just the submission requirements.

[pnwmom]

12. Health care expenses are rising too fast and THAT'S the real problem.

If your taxes weren't going up, your benefits would be going down. Something has to give, until health care costs are better controlled.

[piedmont]

26. Exactly. Health care COST reform should have been the higher priority.

I wish I had brand new BMW. But I can't afford one. But maybe Congress will pass a law to make me buy one. That'll work.

[uppityperson]

42. I see it as Insurance companies are making more and more, that's the real problem

If they weren't raking in higher profits, costs would go down. Yes, all health care costs have gone up, as have groceries, but the bulk of the excessive fees are insurance co profits.

[Warren Stupidity]

14. HSA suck to begin with.

yes you will have to pay the diff on over the counter stuff - but a lot of that stuff was already off limits and the total out of pocket to you is not going to be massive, to say the least. but you are correct, the tax law changes routinely nickle-and-dime working families with increase after increase while handing out obscene gifts to the undeniably wealthy. It is a fucking farce.

Those useless HSA's ought to be abolished and instead every dime of your medical expenses, no matter which counter you purchase them on, ought to be deductible.

[silverlib]

24. The OP is talking flexible medical account - not HSA...

All old plans allowed participants to send in receipts for OTC items. Now, these expenses are not allowed under the plan.

[Statistical]

53. I love my HSA. Saves a ton of money.

Also there is no legitimate medical expense which is not reimbursable under HSA (except starting in 2011 OTC drugs). Not sure where you are getting your info.

In 2010 I put the following on my HSA credit card:
* dental copay
* Dr. visit costs
* x-rays
* lab work

* pharmacy/prescription drugs
* contact solutions
* contact lenses
* eye checkup
* OTC drugs
* cost of surgery


The cost of my HDHP + $4000 into my HSA each year is less than traditional ripoff insurance.

[obxhead]

16. Self delete

Comment was not welcome by OP.

[Freetradesucks]

19. Once again, what do those taxes have to do

the OP?

Nothing.

This is a new tax implemented by the Federal government on my family and we make well under 250K.

[obxhead]

22. Self delete

[Freetradesucks]

25. It appeared as though you were trying to equate

this Federal tax increase with the local state and county increases that we are all incurring as well.

I'll calm down now!

I just think it's odd that DU is all for this tax increase. I suppose it's just more class warfare, if you have health insurance you must be rich or privileged. I am neither.

[mmonk]

29. My premiums go up every year and I consider that a tax because

these entities call the shots in Washington.

[TheKentuckian]

31. Put your money in, go to Walgreen's and buy them out of reading glasses when they have a coupon

or are on sale and then sell them on ebay or something.

I admit it is back door somewhat there. Probably not too major. I'd also advise you can be reimbursed for doctors consultations and your doctor gets paid for the visit so he/she might be ok with writing you prescriptions for your normal stuff. Have them make it PRN, for Jan 1-Dec 31, for the exact type (Claritin vs the Walgreen's version) the quantity you like to buy and turn that in. They can but several on one script.

It sounds a lil crazy but odds are your doctor would be happy to help you out if you make it a once a year or so deal.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[TheKentuckian]

36. It isn't a scam, it is your money that you will lose if you don't spend it.

I suggested purchases that are legally reimbursable as the fsa's own information will back up.

You use Claritin instead of a more costly pharmaceutical, you are saving money for the greater system and there is no reason such a thing shouldn't be reimbursable. The insurance is not being scammed in any way. Not only are all parties working within the framework of the law, it is the participants own money. The only public concern, if any, is the tax benefit from the percentage of the fsa spent on the sinus medicine or whatever.

Money that is GONE if it isn't spent. Earned income.

[Freetradesucks]

37. I don't think you understand...

I'm talking everything that is CURRENTLY covered that will not be in a few weeks.

-children's aspirin
-contact solution
-band-aids
-cough drops
-cough medicine

The list go's on. This is a TAX INCREASE on my family that I (we) were told was not going to happen. What don't you understand about that?

[TheKentuckian]

39. I understand totally, which is why I gave you a way around the restrictions.

Contact solution and band aids continue to be reimbursable as before. The cough drops and medicine as well as the aspirin can be reimbursed under the code wit a prescription so go in for a visit and ask for a PRN prescription for the dosages, count, and brands brands you buy for the period from 1/1/11 to 12/31/11 so you can get full value.

Failing that buy other non-drug OTCs and sell them to get your money back from the program and then buy your OTCs.

Have you been getting reimbursed for your mileage? It went up to .19 cents. You can be reimbursed for your trips to and from a provider or the pharmacy.

I'm just saying that if you are smart and will jump through the right hoops that you can get your full tax benefit and not lose a nickle of your money.

[aikoaiko]

33. In 2012, you will only be able to max your FSA up to $2500.

For people like me who maxed out their FSA on medical and dental bills for my family, the new health care bill takes untaxed money ($1000-$1250) that was only being spent medical bills and it will get sucked up in taxes. I'd like to think it is for the greater good, but it stings. It is a backdoor tax increase that directly impacts my ability to pay medical bills.

[Freetradesucks]

35. But if you have health insurance, and are paying into

a FSA you must be rich, right? Why are you complaining?:sarcasm:

[obxhead]

38. Kick,

the dirty truths about HCR need to come out. Take your rose colored glasses off and smash them on the ground, they do you no more benefit than a heroin habit.

[Sheepshank]

54. I was told well before HCR that OTC was going to go away

Bogus attempt to include something that was going away anyway. Un rec

[Jeffersons Ghost]

55. we can expect more, not so carefully hidden, taxes like that one too

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

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[Trey9007]

66. Seems to me that the practical solution may be..........

to contribute less to your FSA. If you're going to be able to use your FSA for less things, why not simply contribute less (say 20%), and take that amount and put it in your own savings account.