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Historian takes on Christian Right's "Nazis were gay" theory - Stops short of just calling it stupid

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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-11 07:51 AM
Original message
Historian takes on Christian Right's "Nazis were gay" theory - Stops short of just calling it stupid
Professor Jonathan Zimmerman is the latest historian to publicly refute the claim that gay men were largely responsible for the Nazi Party and the Holocaust. Zimmerman is chair of the Department of Humanities and Social Sciences in the Professions at New York University’s Steinhardt School of Culture, Education, and Human Development.

The gay Nazi claim derives from the 1995 book The Pink Swastika, by Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams. (Lively’s routine defamation of the LGBT community led to his Abiding Truth Ministries being added to the Southern Poverty Law Center’s hate group list). In that book, the authors claim that “the Nazi party was entirely controlled by militaristic male homosexuals throughout its short history” and that those men largely orchestrated the Holocaust. Lively and Abrams also argue, in contravention of the historical record, that persecution of homosexuals by Nazi Germany is largely a myth.

But as Zimmerman writes in his editorial, Lively’s “history” has nothing to do with reality. Rather than encouraging or coddling gays, he says, the Nazis banned homosexual activity as early as 1935. And in 1936, the Nazi Party established a Central Office for Combating Abortion and Homosexuality. In 1941, Hitler ordered the death penalty for any SS and police members found guilty of homosexual activity. Between 1933 and 1945, Zimmerman says “the Nazis arrested roughly 100,000 men as homosexuals.” Most were sent to prison, but “between 5,000 and 15,000″ ended up in concentration camps, where they were forced to wear pink triangles. Many died.

Lively’s book has been discredited by other legitimate historians (see here, here and here), but that doesn’t stop people like Bryan Fischer, director of issue analysis for government and public policy at the American Family Association (AFA) from using it as a way to demonize LGBT people (the SPLC lists AFA as an anti-gay hate group). Nor does it stop antigovernment conspiracy sites like World Net Daily (WND) from hawking the book. Joseph Farah, editor of WND, brushes off criticism of The Pink Swastika and instead says that “the book more than stands up to all the attacks I’ve seen, most of which are completely baseless.” That from a man who’s sure President Obama wasn’t born in this country and who publishes articles on his site like this one, in which the writer claims that soybeans cause homosexuality.

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/08/29/yet-another-historian-refutes-gay-nazi-claim/

This is the Christian Right, this is the Tea Party, and this is the New Right; what they do and how they think can be best summed up in the words of Adam Savage... "I reject your reality and substitute my own", as a movement you can't be bipartisan with them and you can't work across the aisle with them. It's just not going to happen.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-11 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sounds like a modern day Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Edited on Tue Aug-30-11 08:07 AM by Smarmie Doofus
Bullshit w. glossy gift wrapping used against another marginalized group in *exactly* the same fashion. ( i.e spread from group to group; ) After a while the lineage of the idea becomes obscure but the defamation at its center persists. And *resonates*.

At least that is their hope.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-11 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. Some things are so ludicrous they almost can't be de-bunked.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-11 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. The SS liquidated the gay minority SA faction of Ernst Roehm in the 1934 "Night of the Long Knives."
Edited on Tue Aug-30-11 08:11 AM by leveymg
See the 1969 film, "The Damned" by Visconti. It was part of a larger blood purge of the Nazi Party, but yes, there were gay Nazis.
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JackintheGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-11 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. No one disputes that there were gay Nazis
only that they drove the car, so to speak.

There's gay just about everything. gay republicans, gay "heterosexuals" (see Larry Craig, et. al.), gay fundamentalists, gay football players (I mention them because they ARE manly, aren't they?). gay popes even, I suspect.

But the Night of Long Knives is a good moment to source.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-11 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Hitler and the SS took the first opportunity to exterminate them.
Edited on Tue Aug-30-11 08:45 AM by leveymg
The Night of the Long Knives, which occurred years before Kristallnacht, displayed the Nazi leadership's aptitude for mass murder and group persecution as a tool to grab total power. The killings of the SA circle around Ernst Roehm (who was gay, as were some of his followers) was justified on the stated grounds of eliminating homosexuals in the ranks. In fact, that was a pretext for a massacre of a number of rival factions within the Party.

In an ironic twist to today's' "Family Value" politicians, Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler created a Reich Central Office for the Combating of Homosexuality and Abortion in the early 1930's, with his own famous "Family Values" campaign. Before the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 (which prevented Jews from participating in normal German society and prevented Jews from marrying "Aryans") the homosexual population was already living as outcasts or hiding in fear.

On June 28, 1934, Hitler showed the world that he could kill homosexuals, in addition to sending them to prisons or concentration camps. All this while terrorizing the rest of the German people with a sense of moral dignity. http://infotrue.com/pagethr.html


I absolutely agree with your basic point. The Nazi Party leadership and movement certainly can not be accurately characterized as "gay". Those who try to push that lie are absurd and twisted.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-11 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. The Christian Right is neither Christian nor correct.
If there were a deity named Jesus, these people should be quaking in their boots. Sadly, they'll probably continue their lies with impunity.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-11 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. And what does the DNC or the administration do to counter this
hateful bullshit? That's right, nothing, in fact they often promote it themselves. The Family is a bipartisan group.
When 'good people' do nothing, they cease to be good people. They become exactly like those they are passively allowing to trade in hate.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-11 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. +1. Of course. Nothing. That's what they do best. nt
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-30-11 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
8. They are busy re writing history.
So that when the evangelicals take the white house and have a permanent majority in the congress they can put it in the text books....then the next generation will think it is the truth.
He who controls the past controls the future....he who controls the present controls the past.
Geoorge Orwell 1984
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