What if Obama's healthcare law required every American to buy a gun? How'd you feel about that?

[The Straight Story]

Ken Cuccinelli has not been a well-known public figure -- until now.

He's the attorney general of Virginia, who wasn't given much chance of succeeding in his lonely legal challenge to President Obama's beloved healthcare legislation designed to change whatever you believe in on that subject.

But then, oops, Federal District Judge Henry Hudson on Monday agreed with the Virginia AG, declaring a crucial part of the law unconstitutional. Full details here, including the opinion's complete text.

Cuccinelli's victory which, of course, the Democratic administration will appeal, is but one of several legal challenges to the measure wending their way through the nation's arcane legal system. Arguments resume in a similar federal case in Florida on Thursday. Nothing will be finally resolved until the Supreme Court gets it, accepts it, decides it and a lot of lawyers' financial health benefits.

So in the intervening months, possibly years, we're left with plenty to argue over as both sides seek to make their case to the jury of public opinion.

"Never before in our history has the federal government ordered Americans to buy a product under the guise of regulating commerce. Imagine if this bill were that in order to protect our communities and homeland security, every American had to buy a gun. Can you imagine the reaction across the country to that?"


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/12/ken-cuccinelli-obamacare-guns-federal-judge.html

[DrDan]

1. actually - wasn't tehre a community a few years back that said all residents must own a gun?

[Dawgs]

5. Kennesaw, Georgia

Still a requirement.

:scared:

[DrDan]

12. is it enforced?

[Statistical]

19. No it wasn't and isn't enforced. Also it wasn't the federal govt.

[liberal N proud]

2. Was the mandate put in the health care bill for this reason

Did the republicans working on the health care bill have the mandate added to the bill to provide an avenue for it to be struck down?

A Poison pill so to speak?

[Statistical]

20. How would it be a posion pill?

Striking down the mandate doesn't strike down the other provisions.

Everything else in the bill will remain in effect and the mandate will not.

[liberal N proud]

26. Simple question - poison pill allowing states to challenge it

Making the whole health care law look bad.

Image is everything in the public eye.

[Statistical]

27. That makes sense.

It could horribly backfire on Republicans though.

Say SCOTUS strikes down mandate but keeps everything else in place.
Republicans don't have 60 votes to repeal the rest of HCR.

Health Insurance rates will likely rise. People will complain. It *could* lead to increased support/demand for public option or single payer.

If done right this could be a poison pill to show individual for profit private insurance can never work. :)

[Teaser]

3. A mandate that levied a tax

that all gun owners were exempt from would be bad policy, but likely constitutional. And that is basically what the health care mandate reduces to.

[stray cat]

4. What if freedom of speech was forbidden instead of carrying a concealed weapon?

You can do meaningless swaps on anything

[Chorophyll]

6. Aren't we required to buy car insurance? nt

[City Lights]

9. Only if you own a car. Some people don't own cars. nt

[oneshooter]

22. Only if you drive it on a public roadway.

If you only drive it on private property then you do not need, nor are you required to have insurance or a drivers license.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[City Lights]

25. Thanks for the clarification. nt

[Statistical]

16. No. You have many choices that don't involve buying car insurance. n/t

[RSillsbee]

7. Do I get a tax credit if I already own one? NT

[pacalo]

8. A ridiculous analogy -- especially coming from a federal judge!

And, a little off topic, but this lawsuit (against an American president!) is another example of the hypocrisy of the Republican party who, during the Bush regime, made a big deal about tort reform. Remember when they said the litigation system was broken & that silly lawsuits were driving up costs to fight them? To file a lawsuit against the president when this country's got a trillion-dollar deficit is outrageous! And the article said this litigation will go on for years!

I believe there is a lot of truth to the fears we have about the Republicans trying to bankrupt the Treasury.

[Statistical]

17. What is ridiculous about it? Even IF SCOTUS finds it Constitutional it is a good challenge.

The Commerce Clause has never been used so broadly before. In its simplest form the lawsuit boils down to if the Commerce Clause allows this.

Given that no prior precedent goes as far as requiring citizens to purchase private goods/services from private for profit corporations it is a valid question.

"Does the commerce clause allow the federal govt to force citizens to buy goods/services they may neither want nor need?"

Yes/No.

The lawsuit is good even if SCOTUS says yes because it more clearly defines the limits (or lack thereof) of the commerce clause.

[pacalo]

30. Comparing mandatory health insurance to forcing people to own a gun IS ridiculous.

Health insurance can't kill people.

And I wonder if the idea for mandatory health insurance was an attempt to pacify the Republicans, who are so afraid of people getting a service for free, while others have to pay for the same service. I wish there were a way to find out for sure.

[mstinamotorcity]

10. I will not see the validity

in this question since the Judge in question has a vested interest to not support the Affordable Care Act. And I know its a ploy to try and keep this bill from being enhanced with a single payer or public option amendment in the later years. Only response.

[greymattermom]

11. without insurance

The hospitals will probably ask you to "post bond" before treating you. You'll have to give up the deed to your house or sign over all future earnings to them before they stop your bleeding. Just wait. Hospitals can't afford free care. What happens to you if you drive an uninsured car and get in a wreck. Same thing without health insurance.

[vi5]

13. If it's a law Obama wanted then I'd be for it.

Kidding.

I'm kidding.

Although again, sadly this is the subtext of far too many posts/posters on DU.

[City Lights]

21. Ya got that right!

:fistbump:

[brewens]

14. The gun would be the Republicans idea of insurance for poor

people. If you get cancer or some other fatal disease you won't get any treatment so you might as well just blow your brains out.

[last_texas_dem]

15. Well, there was the Militia Act of 1792, which required just that

It wasn't based on Congress's power to regulate interstate commerce, but it came up several times during the discussion of the health insurance mandate. Surprised a state AG would be oblivious to that law. Or perhaps he's just playing dumb...

Relevant to nothing, why are the comments sections of all newspapers so heavily dominated by teabaggers? I swear; the NY Times has the only comments sections that don't make me want to curl up in the fetal position after reading them.

[gkhouston]

18. Hmm... it might cut down the time I spend in the waiting room.

:evilgrin:

[lame54]

32. or make the waiting room twice as crowded

[HEyHEY]

23. I'd buy gun company stock

[Statistical]

28. So did you buy health insurance stock? n/t

[HEyHEY]

35. I wouldn't want to make money off people's misery!

So it's just gun stock.

[Bandit]

24. Seems to me in the beginning America did require every able bodied man to buy a gun

I guess like Bush* said about the FISA Laws, that was then, we have outgrown those laws..

[Statistical]

29. However the Congress didn't use the commerce clause to make it Constitutional.

The militia act was Constitutional even without the commerce clause.

The government has asserted that they can mandate private purchases (any private purchase) via the Commerce Clause.

So maybe gun is a bad analogy.... can the govt force you to buy an xbox 360? What about a Kindle? What about force you to purchase high speed internet?

[lame54]

31. i'll own a gun when they place it in my cold dead hands

[Vogon_Glory]

33. I'd buy a flintlock rifle and store it in the closet. n/t

[social_critic]

34. We are already required to buy guns

We pay for all the crap our military buys, don't we? If they asked me to buy one, then I would buy me a NERF gun.

[Johonny]

37. +1

[dimbear]

36. Worried we're spiralling into some hellhole like Switzerland?

Of course it's only one per family there. One apiece is even more severe.

[Better Believe It]

38. So we would end peoples misery by shooting them? Sounds like a plan!

[Tx4obama]

39. There once WAS a LAW that had a mandate to buy a gun - see below

See comment #34 on the link below
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x198#3983

So, what does everything think about that?
I'd love to hear ya'll's commments :)