Pastors fight IRS ban on endorsing candidates

[spanone]

hey pastors, give up your tax exemptions and you can say whatever you wish....


.....................................................

For the past four years, pastors in Nashville and around the country have tried to pick a fight with the Internal Revenue Service.

The IRS has refused to fight back.

The pastors are challenging an IRS ban on endorsing candidates from the pulpit, which is based on rules that forbid nonprofits from taking part in political campaigns. Preachers say the ban violates their rights to free speech and freedom of religion.

“I don’t want anyone censoring what I say in the pulpit,” said the Rev. Henry Coles of World of Faith Christian Center in Nashville, with a congregation of about 400.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20111001/NEWS/309280146/Pastors-fight-IRS-ban-endorsing-candidates?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

[MADem]

1. Pay up, and pipe up. Otherwise, STFU!!! nt

[roguevalley]

34. agreed

[AsahinaKimi]

37. agree +2

Pay up or Shut up!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

2. They really need to take away tax exemptions for churches anyway.

If we are truly a secular nation, this is an unconstitutional idea anyway.
Duckie

[Tom Ripley]

32. Absolutely. It also puts the government in the position of determining...

what is a "real religion" before awarding the coveted tax dodge status.
It is completely unconstitutional.

[Major Nikon]

3. Jesus paid taxes and didn't have a problem with it

[SpiralHawk]

4. End the Republicon Socialistic tax exemptions for churches

and you can endorse all the damn whackjobs you want.

[krispos42]

5. Hey, Henry... you want to be a player on the political field...

...you're no longer a taxpayer-subsidized entity.


Lemme put it this way... I don't want MY tax dollars to go to YOUR political rhetoric. So STFU or pay your income taxes.


TRUST ME. If the wealthy could avoid paying income taxes simply by keeping their mouths shut, THEY WOULD DO IT.

[hobbit709]

6. Tax the churches

In my view exempting them from taxes is giving them special treatment.

[zalinda]

8. Some churches do a lot for poor people.

If you would tax them all, some would just shrivel up and die. I 'work' with a church that is a big asset in the community. I am an atheist, but I am welcome to come and get free bread on Friday. I also donate clothing and other items to them, as they have an open 'garage sale', where those who need it can come and get what they need free of charge. This is also a place where the kids come after school, or hang out during the summer. They also have a small food pantry.

So, before taxing them all, you need to understand, that some churches are the difference between being poor and having nothing, and being poor with some breathing room.

zalinda

[hobbit709]

9. Jefferson and Madison though churches should be taxed.

[zalinda]

12. At that time, churches didn't do much charity work.

I am not saying that all churches are good, or all are bad. But in some poor communities they are essential.

zalinda

[hobbit709]

13. poor churches, just like poor people wouldn't be paying much in taxes.

[bengalherder]

25. Then they can itemize like everyone else.

So much income in, so much charity out. Like other entities. A church like yours might make out OK.

Tax 'em all and let the IRS sort 'em out.

[Major Nikon]

16. Kenneth Copeland has a $20 million Cessna Citation X

It's parked next to the airport and mansion he also owns. It's not worth the overall cost to the public to give churches a free ride for simply being churches.

I'm all for churches establishing 501c3 entities within their organizations for their activities which are genuinely charitable such as the one you describe, but allowing all churches to qualify for tax exemption regardless of whether they are using their money to feed the hungry or send church leaders to countries with lax child molestation laws is not sound tax policy.

[cleanhippie]

17. If that is the case, then they can file for a different non-profit status...

and then continue to help the poor. It need not be a "church" to do that.

[newspeak]

29. yes, actual charitable work should be exempt

but why should I support a church's right to go against my interest? If they're politicizing the pulpit, then pay the damn taxes.

[csziggy]

22. Activities that qualify non-church organizations for tax exemption

Should be tax exempt for churches. But blanket exemptions for all church related activities, no matter if they would otherwise not qualify as tax exempt should be eliminated. That way, churches that really do good works would be tax exempt. Churches that are basically for profit businesses would not be. I think that would be fair since it would put churches on the same footing as any other charity organizations.

[Tesha]

28. Then let them divide their tax-exempt 501(c)3 work from their 501(c)4 non-profit work...

...just like thousands of other similar organizations are already
required to do.

Truly charitable acts can remain tax exempt while other expenses (such
as the cost of maintaining the clubhouse) won't be tax-exempt.

Tesha

[SixthSense]

7. On removing exemptions

I don't think churches should be exempt, but removing that will be hard to do without doing the same to all non-profit organizations. Otherwise they just reconstitute themselves as non-profits (which in most cases would be legit) and keep the exempt status.

On the other hand I don't think any federal agency has any legit role in determining what speech is and is not eligible for exempt status. With that ability the right to free speech is gone, as it can be punished materially through tax or other classifications.

The whole point of the 1st Amendment is that the government ought not to be able to either reward nor punish speech; the protection of political speech in particular is the primary reason it was conceived.

[spanone]

10. politicize the pulpit, lose exemption...pretty easy

[SixthSense]

14. what about political non profits?

political parties are non-profits and tax-exempt as a result, and they exist to politicize

[Angry Dragon]

18. Do they pay property taxes?? the non-profits that is

Make the churches open all their books to show how much they help the poor and needy
if that is their defense

[dems_rightnow]

21. Property taxes are a state issue.

All property tax laws are state laws. Non-profits are exempt some places, others not, all at the whim of the legislature.

[Major Nikon]

20. Non-profit is not the same thing as 501c3

Most non-profit organizations can't qualify as a 501c3 like a church can.

[bengalherder]

26. And groups like scientology can qualify for the 501c3

while doing absolutely NO charity work because it is against their religion (out-exchange, those poor people don't give you any money back...), meanwhile they plow their money into real estate which is redecorated by their slave force and stands empty of actual patrons. But just look at that portfolio, they must be doing something right...

Religious exemptions on taxation need to be ended.

[Major Nikon]

27. The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion

-- L. Ron Hubbard

[malaise]

11. Tax them n/t

[RKP5637]

15. Fine then, let them pay taxes! Easy solution! We have mega churches here

that are bigger than large corporations. All tax free. No wonder we have a revenue problem in this country. The more I follow the US, the more I realize how stupid this country is in 'many' ways.

[Initech]

30. Here in So Cal, we have Rick Warren.

He runs the Saddleback Church which has some 40,000 members. Sent e-mails to his congregation telling them to vote for Prop H(8) the night of the elction, gets MILLIONS just for asking, and is working with Ugandan leaders on that gay genocide bill, he's just one evil example of why these people need to start paying.

[RKP5637]

31. Disgusting, absolutely disgusting people. n/t

[Initech]

35. I was seriously pissed when I first heard he was giving the opening prayer at Obama's inaugural.

[RKP5637]

38. I often wonder where Obama is coming from sometimes. n/t

[Initech]

39. Same here.

[B Calm]

19. We hate to censor their right wing agenda, so pay their taxes and problem solved!

[indypaul]

23. Thomas Paine --- Common Sense 1776

Epistle To The Quakers ---- "And here, without anger or resentment I bid you
farewell. Sincerely wishing, that as men and Christians, ye may always and un-
interuptedly enjoy every civil and religious right; and be, in your turn, the
means of securing it to others; but that the example which ye have unwisely set,
of mingling religion with politics, may be disavowed by every inhabitant of America."

[Initech]

24. Mixing religion with politics is so fucking dangerous.

That's how you get Taliban style governments taking over. These assholes need to pay up or shut up - some churches are sitting on millions siphoned from parishioners and they don't pay shit. There's a reason why this hasn't been allowed in our country since our inception. :argh:

[Maraya1969]

33. some more from the link

Coles is one of 475 preachers nationwide signed up for Pulpit Freedom Sunday this weekend, according to the Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian legal group based in Scottsdale, Ariz., that organized the event. Most will endorse candidates and then send their sermons to the IRS.

If the IRS investigates them, the Alliance Defense Fund will sue.

“The issue of whether the IRS can censor what a pastor says in the pulpit has never been tested in court,” said Erik Stanley, senior legal counsel for the Alliance Defense Fund

[Matariki]

36. Pushing a theocracy...