How do you argue with a teabagger when they

[doc03]

are so f----g stupid? This morning I am at the gym and a teabagger is beside me on another machine. Anyway naturally the tv is on Faux and they are talking about Obama letting the tax cuts expire. Well first of all I am 63 and retired and he is retired, he is 66 years old and worked a good union job with a pension. The guy says we have to get rid of that f----g Obama or we will never have any jobs, he wants to raise taxes on the job creators. I said the tax cuts have been in effect for ten years if that worked we should have jobs out the wazoo. I said it comes down to either they cut SS and Medicare or let the tax cuts expire. He said well the Republicans only want to cut SS and Medicare on people under 55 and it won't affect us. I said what are you supposed to do if you are 54 years old? He says you have to save your money. I said most people today under 54 aren't lucky like we were and have a pension to supplement their SS either or a Medicare supplement from their employer if they even have a job. He said in that case they should get a job that pays benefits. I said what about my friend that is 53 years old and has been unemployed for three years and has no prospects for a job? He said SS isn't an entitlement it is our money and if you are laying around collecting unemployment and not paying into SS you shouldn't get any SS. I am telling you these people are so f----g stupid and brainwashed by Faux you are waisting time even trying to talk to them. I just gave up, got off the machine and walked away before my head exploded..

[livetohike]

1. Did he have an explanation for why the tax cuts haven't created

tons of jobs in the last 10 years? Or that "trickle down" economics don't work at all?

The teabaggers have lost their ability to think logically (if they ever had the ability in the first place).

[doc03]

2. Hell no all they know is Faux tells them you can't raise

taxes on the job creators, case closed.

[treestar]

3. Good on you for trying

The point about the jobs not being created after the Bush tax cuts is a good one. It makes them think. I bet he dodged that one. They will do anything to change the subject once you think of that one question that exposes the fallacy in conservative "thought."

I always like to ask them about the Great Depression. 33% unemployment, were they just lazy? They will start on some excuse that the government caused the Depression. But they still are dodging the question - is being unemployed always a choice due to "laziness?" When they have to consider the depression, they can't say that. So it tests their theory and they know there is a flaw, they can't stand it so they change the subject.

Mostly they just want to blame others and take no responsibility themselves.

[doc03]

6. It is Obama's fault there are

no jobs. If you have a job today that doesn't pay benefits it isn't because you don't have a union, it's your fault, you were just to lazy to go out and find a job that pays benefits. Then if you are out of work you are sitting on your ass collecting unemployment and don't want to work. How can you blame Obama because there are no jobs and still blame the guy on unemployment for not haveing a job?
Like Spock said "It's not logical Jim." But who cares about logic, we have Faux.

[Sirveri]

4. I don't talk politics in polite company.

It really does just make things easier.

[theaocp]

5. Why do we have high unemployment with 10 years of tax cuts?

Again, and again, and again. Rinse, lather, repeat. No sidetracks. Where are the jobs?

Oh, and he's a selfish fucking bastard. Fuck him.

[doc03]

9. He is a selfish fucking bastard for sure. The guy took an early

retirement buyout at 60 years old and gets a good pension and his wife still works. Guess what she is a teacher. So there you go two people that both had a good middle class life because they worked on a job with union representation. He is also rabidly anti-union, go figure. He thinks he got all of his benefits in life from his vast intellect, I guess.

[Brigid]

21. He had a union job, his wife has a union job, and yet he's anti-union?

:wtf:

[BiggJawn]

27. He has his, screw the rest of us.

Maybe someday they'll write a book about the Teabaggers called "The Selfish Generation".

[NBachers]

7. Demand that they put something on besides Fox

[rgbecker]

8. We'll have to assume the guy has neither children nor grandchildren.

What makes him think those under 55 are going to have any way of paying for their living expenses or health care when they are unable to work. Is something going to happen in the year 2022 that this guy is hiding from us? The Rapture?

[doc03]

11. He has children and grandchildren. His children have good

jobs he was able to send them to college because he worked a union job and made a good middle class income. Now fuck the blue collar workers.

[rgbecker]

19. I know plenty of college educated, good job retirees dependent on Social Security and Medicare.

Funny how those pensions never really add up to much and then, there's the sickness thing.

[Marr]

10. Don't bother. Read Bob Altemeyer's The Authoritarians, and feel better.

These people are simply made this way. Talking to them is a waste of time.

[booley]

12. Don't let him lead you around.

It's human nature to ignore things that don't fit into one's POV.

He did that by changing the subject when you asked why the tax cuts hadn't created jobs. He changed the subject to something he thought would be easier for him to argue and while he's full of crap there too (the GOP no more cares about those over 65 as those under), when he starts losing that argument he'll just change the subject again. He's trying to lead you by the nose to an a argument he can win. It's old trick and one I still have to be careful not to fall into to.

Don't' let him do that. Stay on that first topic. Make him explain how these people are "job creators" In short, make him examine his own beliefs on this. Chances are he just accepted that the rich are job creators and never gave it much thought beyond that. So you got to lead him but in a way where he's forced to think about what he believes.

And do it politely (which is probably the hardest part of all) or else he'll get defensive and just stop listening all together.

It takes time. Even the most open minded of us often need to absorb new information before they will accept it. Teabaggers are even worse since to them even a liberal saying something is proof it's wrong. So it will take a while to get through that kind of mental defense.

[PETRUS]

13. I really don't know, but

you might also point out that productivity and profitability have been actually been humming along just fine, and the "job creators" have been doing quite well for themselves by employing FEWER people. (Those people aren't in the business of creating jobs, facrissake! They're in the business of making money and the lowest possible payroll is in their best interest. From their point of view, hiring a new employee is an unfortunate necessity.) I read an article recently that said using logic and reason rarely works in these kinds of discussions, and what's more effective is some kind of narrative that people can grok on a visceral level.

It's good and brave of you to engage. We SHOULD be debating and discussing things with one another, and people do change their minds even if the mechanism is mysterious.

[Obamanaut]

14. Why do you argue with anyone when you know from the very first statement

the two of you have completely different beliefs?

[Fire Walk With Me]

15. You don't argue with a teabagger for the same reasons you don't argue with cultists.

[Zax2me]

16. Let it go.

And this guy is a retired union worker?!
Just, don't.
not worth it.

[thelordofhell]

17. Never argue with an idiot

They'll take you down to their level and beat you with their experience

[pa28]

18. Republicans are great at using the worst in human nature for their own gain.

The position your "friend" took on grandfathering in SS cuts is a perfect example. They know enough people in that age bracket just won't care if they are not directly affected. That's why I think if we're going to have cuts nobody should escape. They'll suddenly become much more politically difficult to achieve.

A good example of this is my own mom. She turned 65 this year and is mostly uninformed and apathetic about politics but she does ask me about some of the plans for cuts out there and what they'll mean to her. When I explain some of the plans floating around for Medicare and SS she gets nervous and the first question is always "will this affect me?" and when I tell her she's off the hook it's "well ok then" case closed, my problem.

However, when I explained the chained CPI idea she hit the roof. She wanted to alert the media and call her congressman right fucking now!

:rofl:

[Brigid]

20. Talk to the gym management.

Ask why the TV is tuned to Faux News. I'm sure you're not the only member who doesn't like it.

[pipi_k]

24. Yeah, so they turn it to some other network...

and then the people who want Fox start complaining.

What then?

I think at that point, if I were management/owner I would shut the damned thing off.

People who want particular channels/networks can damned well bring their own TVs.

[Terry in Austin]

22. There are two schools of thought about arguing with a teabagger

Neither of them work.


(Thanks, Will Rogers!)

[pipi_k]

23. Pointless exercise in frustration...

I mean, you have to know you're not going to get anywhere with them, right?

So what's the point?

You get upset, raise your blood pressure, and set yourself up for a heart attack or stroke. For what?

Is it about winning? What's the prize for "winning"?

If a million dollars dropped out of the sky for winning unwinnable arguments, then it MIGHT be worth it.

Otherwise...nah.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

25. Bernie Sander Would Tell You...............

...........you DON'T argue with Teabaggers because it's like trying to have a conversation with a piece of furniture.

[seabeyond]

26. "How do you argue with a teabagger when they" i don't. nt

[county worker]

28. I had a discussion with my mother-in-law like that today.

She use to be president of a local NOW group. But now she just repeats the same old right wing talking points without a scrap of evidence to support what she is saying.

I just walked away also.