#Occupywallstreet protesters block Brooklyn Bridge

[cal04]

Thousands of protesters brought traffic to a halt on New York’s Brooklyn Bridge on Saturday afternoon, as they took their gripes with government away from the commercial heart to one of the city’s main arteries. Police began arresting people as the situation grew from a small gathering to a car-stopping mass. Follow the action live below with a video livestream and our list of sources covering the marches.



http://storyful.com/stories/1000008876

NY Times:Video: Police Arresting Protesters on Brooklyn Bridge
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/police-arresting-protesters-on-brooklyn-bridge/


http://gothamist.com/2011/10/01/breaking_occupy_wall_street_protest.php

Occupy Wall Street Protesters Arrested on Brooklyn Bridge
http://www.dnainfo.com/20111001/downtown/occupy-wall-street-protesters-arrested-on-brooklyn-bridge





"We're fighting for your pension. You belong with us"

Bloomberg Staffer Number
212-788-1400

Charles Blow
http://twitter.com/#!/CharlesMBlow
Police vans moving through oncoming traffic headed toward bridge.
Just overheard traffic cop say they used 5 cities buses to arrest people on the bridge
Police boat in the water under the bridge with lights flashing. Wonder what that's for...

[dana_b]

1. live stream is a bit delayed BUT

it's still good: http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution

[louis-t]

11. They're showing a loop right now.

Starts with the arrest of the 13-year-old. It's about 10 minutes long.

[dana_b]

12. I think they are at Liberty Plaza now n/t

[steve2470]

2. k&r nt

[stevedeshazer]

3. How long can the media continue to ignore this?

It's blowing up.

Fast.

[valerief]

6. As long their money holds out, and that's a very long time. nt

[socialist_n_TN]

50. I saw an inside page article in the Tennessean

about it today. So they're not totally ignoring it. But it's not front page news yet and it's obviously not on the TV NOOZ yet. Or at least not much.

[dana_b]

4. there are a bunch of paddy wagons there now

such b.s.

[Oceansaway]

5. K&R...n/t

[Puregonzo1188]

7. Most my friends were there, hope they're ok. I, on the other hand, had signed up to take the LSATs

today.

[MADem]

8. Asking to be arrested?

Did they have a permit? If not, they're as much as demanding to be arrested. That "blocking public thoroughfare" thing is a big bozo nono.

[Kurovski]

9. Does it still count as civil disobediance?

R

[MADem]

15. If that is the goal, then, yes, it does. If the goal is simply to

show large numbers behind a cause, then getting a permit (e.g. March on Washington) is the way to go.

[sabrina 1]

58. The police tricked them. They let them on the Bridge, they were

sticking to the pedestrian sidewalks. But when they got halfway across, the police were ready and blocked them. Then they arrested them, falsely, for blocking the bridge.

They want to stop this badly. It is spreading so fast they do not know what to do. The police Commission is military, and this was a military operation against the people.

But it won't work. Yesterday, the police arrested no one, despite the huge crowds marching to Police Plaza, when the police did not initiate anything, there were no problems.

Any problems blocking traffic were caused by the police.

Bloomberg thinks he can stop this for his buddies on Wall St. but if he tries, it will only grow bigger. So, let him try. This makes the point that those in power do not listen to the people. And that is why this is spreading like wildfire.

[TNLib]

63. I think the NYPD approach is back firing

The more arrests made people getting pepper sprayed ect.. The more people are getting pissed off and joining and I think this movement is crossing over in political lines as far as the public goes. I posted a picture on FB of the posters and oddly a republican coworker "Liked" the picture.

[sabrina 1]

65. I agree, they have arrested over 700 people some of them children.

I don't know what they're thinking, but you are correct, the more they do this, the bigger the movement will grow.

[loyalsister]

16. Where is the injustice

Not generally. What unjust law designed to filter traffic is being disobeyed?
I hope that a movement that taking advantage of the right to assembly doesn't turn into an uprising that breaks legitimate laws inconvenient to protestors.
Getting arrested is often part of protests. It is most effective when people are arrested on grounds that break unjust laws or no laws at all.
If a legitimate law is broken, where is the argument that favors the protestor?

[MADem]

17. It is an issue of public safety. That is why permits are requested.

If your granny died because the ambulance couldn't get through an unscheduled protest, you would be unhappy. When there are permits issued, then the ambulance would know, ahead of time, to take another route, or the police would set up jersey barriers to limit the space used and provide a lane for emergency vehicles, and granny would live.

I am simply saying that if people assemble in large numbers and block a public way, they should fully expect to be arrested. If that is their goal, to bring attention to their message, well, bully for them, they've done what they set out to do.

However, by the same token, people should not whine or cry or complain that the police are being meanies for doing what they have to do--ensure access for ambulance, fire, police in support of public safety.

[loyalsister]

22. Exactly my point

Breaking legitimate valuable laws does nothing to forward a valid and legitimate cause.

[Kurovski]

25. See post 28 below here

[MADem]

51. A teen or pre-teen got arrested? That post?

That wouldn't have happened if they had a permit, I'm sure. Unless the kid was spitting on the police, or something.

[Kurovski]

24. I just read on another thread that the protesters were being corralled,

blocked, and led into a trap. They were trying to just move to the park and have been detoured in such a way as to facilitate arrests? :shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2037535#2037588

[dana_b]

27. so they may not have been marching across the bridge

and stopping traffic - but they will get the blame no matter what.

[Kurovski]

30. Sounds like the plan

Take away sympathy/solidarity people might feel.

Nice web the NYPD is weaving

[MADem]

33. So, the question of a permit IS a salient one.

If they had one of those bourgeois permits, the police would know the march route, they'd know where to place jersey barriers, they'd know what streets to reroute ambulance/fire equipment on, etc.

There would be no need to "corral" them and get them off the streets.

I don't want to get into a big discussion about civil disobedience, if that's their goal, well, they are getting what they asked for and people should not cry about the police doing their job. If they didn't want to do a "civil disobedience" demonstration, they should have applied for a permit.

All that said, if they DID have a valid permit to march, and the police are pushing them off the permitted march route and then arresting them, then the police are wrong.

I will be interested to learn more about this. Surely, someone could have wandered down to city hall and gotten a lousy permit????

[Kurovski]

36. here's comments on the live feed page...

generalmalaise: NYT gets it right: "police cut the marchers off and arrested dozens of demonstrators Saturday afternoon"

qlimpz: ON THE NEWS , I BET THEY WILL SAY THE PROTESTORS ARREST WERE JUSTIFIED, AND ANYONE WHO SAID "THE POLICE MADE THEM GO THAT WAY" WILL NOT BE BROADCASTED

[MADem]

37. Permits don't cost a dime--I wonder if anyone bothered to get one?

That would have solved the problem, if they'd applied for a permit to march across the bridge or where ever they wanted to go:

Do I need a permit?
It depends on what you want to do. If you want to distribute handbills on a public sidewalk or in a public park; have a demonstration, rally or press conference on a public sidewalk; or march on a public sidewalk and you do not intend to use amplified sound, you do not need any permit. If you want to use amplified sound on public property; want to have an event with more than 20 people in a New York City park; or wish to conduct a march in a public street, you will need a permit. You will also need a permit if you want to conduct a procession involving 50 or more vehicles or bicycles in a public street. If you wish to have an event on the steps of City Hall or in the plaza in front of the steps, you need to make special arrangements with the Police Department.

If I want to distribute handbills; have a demonstration, rally, press conference; or march on a public sidewalk, what do I need to do?
Nothing but plan your event. If you want, you can notify the Police Department, but that is not required. If you do notify the Police Department, officers may appear at the event; if your event involves a significant number of people, the Police Department may set up a “pen” in which they will ask you to stand. In conducting your event, you cannot block pedestrian passage on a sidewalk, so you should leave at least one-half of the sidewalk free. You cannot block building entrances.

What if I want to march in a public street?
You may be able to march in a public street (as opposed to on a sidewalk) in some circumstances. In every instance, you must obtain a permit from the Police Department. If you expect to have fewer than 1,000 people in your march, you can apply for a permit at the precinct in which the march will originate. If you expect 1,000 people or more, you must apply at Police Headquarters (1 Police Plaza, Room 1100A) in lower Manhattan. You can download a permit application from the front page of the NYPD’s website (http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/home/home.shtml), which has a link on the left-hand side under the “Find Services” section to “permits.” There is no fee to apply for a parade permit. As a general rule, the Police Department will only allow marches to take place in the street if the group has enough people so that it is not safe or otherwise reasonable for the group to march on the sidewalk. In those instances in which a group is allowed to march in the street, the police will close a portion of the roadway for the group.

Can I have a vehicle or bicycle procession in a public street?
You are entitled to drive or ride as a group on a public street, but if you have 50 or more vehicles or bicycles in the procession, you will need to obtain a parade permit from the Police Department. These permit applications are handled the same way as applications for street marches.

What if I want to use amplified sound?
If you want to use amplified sound in a public place, you must receive a permit from the Police Department. You can download an amplified sound permit application from the front page of the NYPD’s website (http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/home/home.shtml), which has a link on the left under the “Find Services” section to “permits.” Once you complete the application, you will need to file it with the precinct in which your event is taking place, and that precinct will issue the permit. The fee for a onetime sound permit is $45. Though city rules specify that permits must be sought at least five days before the event, you are entitled to receive a permit even if you apply less than five days before your event. City rules prohibit the use of amplified sound within 500 feet of a school, courthouse or church during hours of school, court or worship, or within 500 feet of a hospital or similar institution. In many instances, the permit may specify a decibel limit on the level of permissible sound. City rules also prohibit the use of amplified sound between 10 p.m. and 9 a.m. in nonresidential areas; in residential areas, amplified sound is not permitted between 8 p.m. or sunset, whichever is later, and 9 a.m. on weekdays and between 8 p.m. or sunset, whichever is later, and 10 a.m. on weekends. Finally, if you intend to use amplified sound that requires electricity, you are not allowed to tap into public power (e.g. a light pole) unless you have made specific arrangements with the city to do so.

What if I want to have a rally, press conference or demonstration in a city park?
You are entitled to distribute expressive materials or have a rally, press conference or demonstration in a city park. If the event will include more than 20 participants, you must obtain a special events permit from the Parks Department. You can obtain a permit application, which contains the general rules governing the permit process, from the Department’s main office in the borough where the park is located or you can apply online at the Parks Department’s website (www.nycgovparks.org). The application fee is $25. You also are entitled to use amplified sound at an event in a city park. As with amplified sound in other public places, you must obtain a permit from the Police Department to use amplified sound in a public park. Generally, the Police Department will not issue a sound permit until you obtain your Parks Department permit.

What if I want to have an event in front of City Hall?
You are entitled to have a rally, press conference or demonstration on the steps of City Hall or in the plaza directly south of the steps. (City Hall Park also is open for such events, but these are subject to the normal rules for parks events.) You do not need a permit for events in front of City Hall, but you do need to schedule your event with Police Department officials at City Hall. To schedule an event, call the Police Desk at [phone]. Though you are entitled to have an event, there are certain restrictions at City Hall. Groups are limited to 300 people, and only a portion of the steps may be used. All attending an event must pass through a metal detector.

What else do I need to know?
The most important thing you can do to ease the permit process is to apply for your permit as early as possible. Be persistent in pursuing the process, keep copies of any paperwork you submit, and have the names of the public officials with whom you deal. In many instances groups holding events on public property in New York City, whether with a permit or otherwise, will receive a phone call from the Intelligence Division of the Police Department seeking general information about the event. The Police Department is entitled to ask such questions, but you are entitled not to answer them, if you choose not to. You are free to use signs at your event, but the Police Department does not want them affixed to wooden sticks or metal poles; use cardboard tubing or hold them. Signs are not permitted to be affixed to public property, such as light posts or police barriers.

© New York Civil Liberties Union, September 2009

http://www.nyclu.org/content/know-your-rights-demonstrating-new-york-city

[Webster Green]

10. Yeah, arrests sometimes go with the territory.

I've been arrested quite a few times at protests. I expected it, and wanted it to happen. It's called civil disobedience.

Sorry you disapprove of folks standing up to the fucking banksters and con artists on Wall Street.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pipi_k]

21. Just wondering how it can be called

"Standing up to the banksters and con artists" when the protesters are perhaps blocks away from Wall Street itself, blocking traffic, and taunting the police, who are there to ensure the safety of everyone?

They're not standing up to the banksters and con artists...they're standing up to cops who have been sent there to do a job.

Many of those cops look like they'd rather be someplace else instead.

Like home watching college football, for example. Or maybe spending time with their families.

[MADem]

48. It was an offensive personal accusation, to suggest that anyone

is in support of bankers and con artists, simply because one questions the tactics used by this group.

[Webster Green]

61. No it wasn't an offensive personal accusation.

All I said was you disapprove of the protesters standing up to the banksters. Your post calling them bozos and accusing them of doing a no no, pretty much says that you disapprove of their non-violent civil disobedience. I call their tactics a yes yes. We just disagree.

I never accused you of supporting the banksters. I pointed out your quite obvious disapproval of the tactics of the demonstrators, and you went ballistic, calling me an asshole.

To quote one of the signs seen at the protest: "Until you wake up, we will fight for you."

Now wake up!

[MADem]

66. You assumed insulting facts not in evidence. Rather like if I asked you

"When did you stop molesting children?" Now, I will assume you never molested anyone, never mind a child, but when you make a suggestion, or an assertion, as you did, it's as good as an accusation.

I don't disapprove of the protesters standing up to the banksters, but that's not quite how you phrased it. And you never said diddly about how I felt about tactics, either, so no backtracking.

And I didn't call you an asshole, either. I said your conduct was suggestive of one, and that you ought to get off the padding surrounding yours and out from behind your keyboard rather than lecturing me.

I do, however, think the tactics of this group are haphazard and ineffective, but I fully support the goal of ending corporate corruption and unfair advantage for the wealthy, aided and abetted by Congress. It is LONG overdue.

The people who need to "wake up" are the ones focusing all their ire on the police, instead of focusing it on the rich bastards on Wall Street. It seems that these protesters are every where in NYC .... EXCEPT Wall Street. And that, my friend, is entirely unhelpful to their cause, as is making the police, instead of the bankers, the enemy.

[Webster Green]

60. You've missed the point of the protest.

Occupy Wall Street is indeed about confronting the useless banksters and Tom Wolfe's "masters of the universe", who have led us to the brink of economic disaster. The fact that the demonstrators march out of Liberty square does not negate their message. That's a very strange thing to say.

The cops have been sent there to keep order. Cool. They don't need to brutalize non-violent protesters. Who gives a shit if they would rather be watching football? I think the issues being addressed here are a little larger than any football game. Maybe they need to get a job in a sports bar or something.

Yours is a very weak argument to diminish the actions of the protesters (including non-violent civil disobedience), and to defend the 1% greedy mofos who are destroying the country.

[Eric J in MN]

34. You don't need a permit to march on the sidewalk.

According to a Tweet by Michael Moore, when the protest got to the Brooklyn Bridge, some people took the pedestrian walkway but some took the road because the police led them to.

===
MMFlint Michael Moore

First person account: "The police aided in splittling the parade. They hijacked a group of about 500 and led them onto the bridge roadway"
===

The cops wanted the middle of the Brooklyn Bridge to be a site of mass arrest, knowing that most of the newspaper stories would blame the protesters for shutting down the bridge.

The 50 cops who blocked the march in the middle of the bridge could have directed them to the pedestrian bridge in the first place if it wasn't the plan of the NYPD all along to make mass arrests in the middle of the Brooklyn Bridge and shut it down to make the protesters look bad.

[MADem]

40. The event organizers are at fault. They should have instructed everyone to

wait and use the sidewalk in a single or double file line, or simply have gotten a free permit.

Why would the police "want" to arrest everyone in the middle of the bridge? That doesn't make sense. The police would probably prefer not to have to arrest, book and arraign anyone. They probably are happy for the overtime as the holidays approach, but they probably are not looking forward to the paperwork/court appearances.

On the one hand, some people are saying the protesters got arrested to get publicity, on the other hand, people are saying the police "want" to arrest them in the middle of the bridge? To make them "look bad?"

The goal of publicity is likely achieved, no matter what the motivations were, but if the organizers did NOT want people to get arrested, they should have gotten a free permit from the NYPD. It is a simple process--see post 41. They should get permits even if they decide to use the sidewalk, just to be on the safe side. After all, it's not like, after last week, that everyone does not KNOW that marching in the street requires a permit--it's not a secret, and anyone involved in this effort has been informed of the requirement simply by reading the news following the LAST group of arrests.

Get the permits. Avoid the arrests.

Unless getting arrested is the goal, that is.

[Eric J in MN]

41. No matter how wonderful the organizers were...

...asking them to predict that when they got to the Brooklyn Bridge, cops would be leading marchers to walk in the road is asking a bit much.

As for the cops' motivation for shutting down the Brooklyn, yes, it's to make the protesters look bad.

Audio of woman saying cops directed marchers onto road of Brooklyn Bridge:

http://hw.libsyn.com/p/9/d/a/9da64a6ac141d1fc/Ryan5.mp3?sid=39421f486079c950b894314ffc82366a&l_sid=18778&l_eid=&l_mid=2733439

[MADem]

44. Come on. You are expecting hundreds of people and you plan to go from Point A to Point B.

Get a damn permit...!!!

UNLESS, of course, you WANT to see people arrested for purposes of publicity.

My understanding is they were heading to some park across the bridge, or is that an erroneous piece of information? How else would they get there--swim?

Permits are free, and they've got lawyers in their group. Lawyers know how to lean on civil authorities to expedite processes, like, say, getting permits.

The ACLU has an Idiot's Guide of sorts online--these people should use it. UNLESS, as I said before, they wanted to be arrested.

[Eric J in MN]

45. They were headed to a party in Brooklyn Bridge Park.

Some people used the pedestrian path.

Other people took the road because the cops at the front of the bridge seemed to want them to.

When the front of the march was halfway across, cops kettled everyone on the road and shut down the bridge.

Audio account by anonymous woman:
http://hw.libsyn.com/p/9/d/a/9da64a6ac141d1fc/Ryan5.mp3?sid=39421f486079c950b894314ffc82366a&l_sid=18778&l_eid=&l_mid=2733439

[MADem]

47. Like I said, the organizers should have instructed their charges--or gotten a permit.

If you are marching in a large group in NYC, stay out of the street. Wait in line to take the pedestrian path, or keep walking back and forth on the sidewalk until you can get to the back of the line.

That was how the police got into the arresting business last time, because of people strolling in the street--and that was just a few days ago.

I say get the permit if you do NOT want people to be arrested.

UNLESS, of course, the goal was to be arrested. Then, you're dealing with a different issue altogether.

[Eric J in MN]

56. Police wanted to make mass arrests, and they did.

They had ten buses for prisoners parked near the bridge since this morning.

[MADem]

67. According to someone who was actually there, the buses didn't turn up until the afternoon.

But whatever. http://twitter.com/#!/Adrianchen/status/120240395820081152

[Webster Green]

62. Don't need no steenking permits.

Or free speech zones. Fuck that!

We need to be right in their faces for days, weeks, months or years. Whatever it takes. Good luck with the permit for that.

[MADem]

68. What. Ever. nt

[Webster Green]

71. Well, think about it.

Shall we ask the fat cats for permission for everything we do.

"Please sir, can we have a please have a revolution.....please. We promise to behave ourselves."

[MADem]

72. Just stop. We already had our "revolution," back in 1776.

We have a system of government in place to fix what ails us--we just need the will to use it.

Take your fist out of the air, stop screaming at the police (who are not the "fat cats" of which you complain), and direct your ire at the usurious monetary institutions--and the corporations and politicians who are in bed with them, and then perhaps you'll start to make sense.

When the morning news shows call OWS the "Tea Party of the Left" that is not, in the long term, a good thing. It means just one more set of strident, unyielding bastards has joined the fray. The idea is to BE better and DO better--not the same, or worse.

[Webster Green]

73. The police are protecting the fat cats from having to hear the protests.

The police should be marching alongside the demonstrators. Perhaps the cops will figure it out eventually (when the fat cats go after their pensions). In the meantime, they are getting their rocks off by engaging in a little hippie bashing.

Fuck the NYPD!

[MADem]

75. No they aren't. They are protecting the citizens of NY from

running over idiots in the street on heavily travelled bridges, they are ensuring that fire trucks and ambulances can get by to protect life/property in the event of an emergency, and ensuring that people who have lousy jobs in the city can get to them. When you say "Fuck the NYPD" you are saying "Fuck the wage slave who will not get paid for several hours because he couldn't get to work." Way to grow a "revolution"--not.

[Webster Green]

78. The protesters are not idiots.

The NYPD are idiots. They should be marching in solidarity, not attacking the people who are brave enough to tell it like it is, and speaking truth to power.

This is precisely the way to grow a revolution. May not be as tidy as you would like, but that's the nature of these things. I can think of quite a few laws that are just simply made to be broken.

The cops are the ones who are turning it into a cluster fuck. The protesters are doing their best to keep it non-violent and keep the inconvenience to the NY citizens to a minimum. They are being thwarted in those attempts by dumb-ass cops who hate free speech, think the demonstrators are lazy, dirty hippie commies, and are merely trying to protect the interests of the greedy 1% who are destroying the country.

[MADem]

83. Your opinion is noted ("Take the bridge!" notwithstanding) nt

[jwirr]

39. Agreed but we did it in the 60s with the sit ins etc. It is one of the goals

of civil disobedience. To gain attention and overload the justice system until they have to listen. I will not condemn these kids for anything that we did. Keep it non-violent is my only rule.

[MADem]

43. No one is "condemning" anyone by asking a simple question.

But it IS a valid question, and you--or anyone else--cannot have it both ways.

Either you want civil disobedience, and you actively decide to not get permits and march on the roadways to get arrested and garner attention, or you stick to the sidewalk religiously and obey all the rules which the ACLU have published in excruciating detail for anyone to peruse.

If you're dealing with more than twenty to fifty people, the smart organizer gets a permit -- if he or she wants to avoid arrests.

I don't think it is appropriate to gripe about the police doing their job if the goal is civil disobedience. Like I said, if it was your granny in the ambulance that was blocked by a bunch of people waving signs in the street, and she died because the vehicle could not get through, you'd be pissed. Same deal if your house burned down because the fire trucks couldn't get around a bunch of people who didn't tell the cops they'd be there, so the police could put up jersey barricades and leave open an emergency lane.

It's common courtesy in an urban environment, plus, it is a public safety issue....of course, civil disobedience means that people WANT to be arrested, so no tears when it happens.

[CTyankee]

13. That little girl...

with her hands cuffed behind her back...:cry:

She looks like my youngest granddaughter...

[Fire Walk With Me]

19. Here:

[CTyankee]

26. She's probably 11-13. My granddaughters are 10 and 13.

Why do they have to tie the hands of a child? What possible threat could she be to these big policemen?

The whole world is watching.

[dana_b]

28. from Anonymous:

YourAnonNews Anonymous
Disgusting: NYPD arresting a 13-year-old on the Brooklyn Bridge during #OccupyWallStreet. twitpic.com/6tmdhu

She is 13.

[valerief]

31. Wonder when they'll put a hood on her, make her stand on a box, and tell her if she moves, she'll

fry. Nah, they wouldn't do that, but they'd tase her in a heartbeat. Police have tased more kids this past year.

[CTyankee]

46. This is hurting us the world over! I have notified MSNBC.

I understand that Mika B.'s kids are in the 10-15 age range. What, I asked, if it were one of HER kids?

I don't expect a response...

[MADem]

49. Why is it hurting anyone?

It's a demonstration. People often get arrested at them, particularly if they don't have a march permit.

[CTyankee]

52. Hauling off a kid? Hmm, bad optics. MADem, try to think this one through...

the optics are bad, the scenario is bad (and I am talking about the whole picture of the US at a time of economic crisis and doubt about our capitalist system).

You really have to think harder about this. It is a watershed moment. I have seen this before. It was in 1968 at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. Remember that? the police riot?

OK, now I've got your attention. Now I think you remember what happened after that riot. (And BTW, a commission called it a "police riot"). The beginning of the end of the Vietnam War.

This is the beginning of another "war" of sorts. It is one of those early skirmishes in a war that eventually succeeds. We have yet to see the outcomes, but I will bet you that there will be populist reforms as a result; maybe not right away and maybe not with just this one demonstration, but there will be a spread of this across the country. There will be change as a result.

[MADem]

53. Why are you saying "this is hurting us" though?

I get that some people have the idea that this unfocused effort is the start of something. Personally, I think if it had been a bit more focused, it would have far better effect. You don't get middle class people who have worked their asses off all their lives on your side with "END CAPITALISM NOW" signs. But that's all beside the point.

I still don't take your "this is hurting us" point.

I will wager that the kid will be well treated and released in short order.

If the organizers of this effort don't want to see kids arrested, they should tell protesters to leave the children at home, and get a damn permit so the police are not forced to clear the streets to ensure public safety.

You don't need to get in the face of the police to "fight the power" of Wall Street. Put the focus on the corporate tools and fat cats, not the cops.

[CTyankee]

54. My initial thought was that this would hurt us in the court of world opinion.

Of course, it depends on one's assessment of how important that "court" is. For some, it is negligible. For others, it is important, as in "a decent respect to the opinions of mankind."

'Nuff said?

[MADem]

55. I would guess it depends on your perspective WRT the whole "arrests" business.

I think the mindset of the organizers is "All publicity is good publicity."

Unless they had a permit, and the police were arresting just to be dicks, they had to know that a large crowd would not stay on the sidewalk (and keep half of it clear, as required by law) while transiting to a park on the other side of a bridge. I can only conclude that they were hoping for arrests, to raise their profile. I think they may have gotten what they sought. It's in the paper, after all.

[CTyankee]

70. Because I am old enough to remember what happened after the "police riot" at

the Democratic National Convention of 1968 in Chicago, I have a historical sense. I saw it play out on TV as it was happening. Watching with me was my brother in law, a young economics professor at the time, who talked about the labor rights earlier in the 20th century and what they eventually accomplished. As we know, of course, the 1968 riot was certainly significant in the history of this country. But at the time conservatives were just as derisive of it as they are today about these demonstrations.

It is relevant that they are looking for publicity. Even Zbigniew Brzensky has recently said (speaking of the gulf between the richest in this country and everybody else) "I wonder why there aren't riots in the streets."

My point here is that we would do well to pay attention and give some thought to what this tells us about the helplessness and rage against our collective impotence in the face of overwhelming power.

[MADem]

76. You do realize that "community policing" and new techniques came out of that mess?

Good grief--you think you're the only person over eighteen here?

I remember those well. They were a mess. But tell me, how many police do you see with helmets and shields in NYC? Swinging batons?

There's no equivalency--don't try to pretend there is. The police are very restrained. If they wanted to exercise power, they probably would, but they aren't stupid, unlike some of the provocateurs seeded in amongst the college kids looking for RADIOHEAD, and curious day-trippers.

Look, to make it clear, I support the goal of ending the unholy alliance between corrupt corporations and Congress. I happen to think Eisenhower got it right (and I was alive when he made that speech). You aren't the only one with a "sense of history" but there's playing it smart, and playing it stupid. All publicity is NOT good publicity. It may help you in the short term, but keep it up, and it helps solidify in the mind of the public that you are disruptive, fringe assholes--the "Tea Party of the Left" as they were called on the TV this a.m.

Just because something is big in the moment doesn't mean it will last. For an effort to have staying power, it has to make sense. The Arab Spring had LEADERSHIP. It had the will of the people, but it also had educated, articulate spokespersons in opposition to the government who were able to express a cohesive message.

"Come to the RADIOHEAD concert, oh wait, they won't be here, but maybe at the park across the bridge, let's go" is NOT a cohesive message. When Susan Sarandon, a battle-hardened veteran of MANY a protest, showed up to offer support and advice, she was ignored and dismissed by many of the people in the park who had no idea who the fuck she was. Shows how "wired in" some of them are to human justice causes--even if they never saw Bull Durham.

[CTyankee]

81. As I recall the antiwar movement during the late 60s/early 70s, there were

people who were there for the sheer thrill of it all or they didn't really have a good grasp of what was going on. That doesn't mean the overall effort didn't have an effect on the country.

As for the MSM presenting this protest as "disruptive, fringe assholes," well, perhaps you buy into their narrative, but I don't. I certainly look for a little more nuance. I'm interested in the sociology of it. I hope you aren't believing everything the MSM is saying!

[MADem]

84. There were a whole load of people at those old school protests who just wanted to get

high or get laid. They certainly weren't perfect, either, but I will say that even amongst the dilettantes, there was a basic understanding of why they were there.

Right now, the MSM is not saying much of anything. Beyond "Tea Party of the Left" they haven't had much to say, save sketch out the bare bones of yesterday's activities.

Until these people get a spokesman (and one who isn't worried about concerts, but about policy) they won't get coverage. There needs to be someone who can tell the MSM what is true, what is rumor, and what is nonsense--and have the credibility to be believed; otherwise, they'll just send a few junior reporters along, and if they get something good and there's "room" in the news cycle, they'll throw it in.

I'm not getting much of my info from the MSM, at least not the tv media--it's mainly blogs, livestream and the occasional print report.

These people need leadership, or at least a credible agent with some organizational experience to act as a clearinghouse.

[CTyankee]

85. My feeling is that this isn't the end. This is only ONE beginning.

Over the sweep of history you find these outbreaks and often they become one big revolt. They never really start out in one very well organized and centrally controlled and planned out protest. I don't think you can name one in the history of revolts, revolutions, protests and mass uprisings leading to social change, with one EXCEPTION and that is the so-called "Tea Party Movement." That one, I will grant you, qualifies if I use your criteria.

Now, the MSM covered the Tea Party very nicely, just as planned by its real "leaders." The Tea Party leaders knew exactly what they were doing and how to get the media to come along, i.e. they made it easy for the press and that's what our lazy U.S. media wants.

I think it will be interesting to see what the media across the world, including places where the revolts that you speak of as being coherently organized, have to say about the OWs.

[MADem]

86. I do not dispute that "this isn't the end" AT ALL. Not one bit.

We cannot continue along a path of Money Equals Speech, the Supreme Court notwithstanding. It is a pity that it has taken us over half a century to heed the words of President Eisenhower (who as easily could have been a "D" as an "R"--he was barely political).

I am also certainly willing to acknowledge that this OWS effort could morph into something coherent, providing they get some adult leadership. Right now, it is regarded by many as unserious, because that's how the "organizers" are behaving.

They should put Susan Sarandon (veteran activist, as well as an Oscar winner) in charge. She would have no difficulty getting the media to focus on the protest, and I'd wager she'd also do a good job of getting the protest focused, as well. She had some good ideas, and even took the time to offer up some advice to the group at the park. Pity hardly anyone in the crowd knew who she was or appeared to want to take her recommendations onboard.

[CTyankee]

87. You know, maybe we aren't looking at the same photos of the OWs, but

I see PLENTY of protesters who are old enough to know who Susan Sarandon is! These photos are right here on DU and there are some videos, too. Not everyone there looks like they live in the parents basement. Some of them look like the "parents"! I see plenty of gray heads and wrinkled faces there...plus, maybe you know what transpired between Sarandon and the protesters, but I sure don't.

The leadership will evolve, I have no doubt. With enough steam behind it, they always do appear, taking a bit history, political theory, economics and even philosophy to fashion a "Droits du l'homme" type of manifesto, as has been historically the case. I know we think of more recent "declarations" such as the Port Huron Statement which had a heavy representation of students, but this need not be the case in this instance. A larger swath of the American citizenry have grievances they want to be redressed. I see their involvement as being much greater this time around...

[Fire Walk With Me]

18. Mods on the live feed said that this part of the march were driven onto the bridge

so they could arrest them, don't know if that's true but it would not be surprising because all those cops were probably there already :/

[Modern_Matthew]

20. This is beautiful. Fuck permits. Civil disobedience is the way to go with this.

A scheduled protest that has went dotted all its I's and crossed all its T's is about as lame as it gets.

Flood the cells while shutting down everything to and from Wall Street!

[Fire Walk With Me]

23. Michael Moore saying they were indeed driven onto the bridge to be arrested.

Michael Moore
MMFlint Michael Moore
First person account: "The police aided in splittling the parade. They hijacked a group of about 500 and led them onto the bridge roadway"
6 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/MMFlint/status/120252989192671233

[cal04]

29. Elderly woman makes her way off bridge, fist in the air. Prostesters chant at police, "We pay you!"

http://twitter.com/#!/RDevro
Elderly woman makes her way off bridge, fist in the air. Prostesters chant at police, "We pay you!" #occupywallstreet "

[Eric J in MN]

32. The protesters were trying to cross the Brooklyn Bridge...

...to get to a party in Brooklyn Bridge Park.

50 cops in the middle of the bridge were waiting to block them and help kettle them.

The article in the OP makes it sound like the cops were forced to make arrests, which is false.

http://gawker.com/5845775

"We went along fine for a while until we reached maybe midway. There, a phalanx of cops—maybe 50—were blocking the way."

[Fire Walk With Me]

38. =Cops were there already=. Very Interesting.

[jwirr]

42. Hopefully there are videos of this action. We are going to need them. nt

[dana_b]

35. great pictures here too:

http://globalgrind.com/news/occupy-wall-street-takes-over-brooklyn-bridge-shut%20down-nypd-arrest-photos

[backscatter712]

57. The word for today is ENTRAPMENT!!!

The pigs led the protesters to the bridge, then blocked off both ends.

This wasn't arrests for blocking traffic. That was just the lame-ass excuse. This was extrajudicial punishment for exercising First Amendment rights, by throwing them into the bowels of the NYC jail system, disappearing them for a day, and shitting them out the other end with a ticket for disorderly conduct, knowing full-well the charges will all be dropped once the OccupyWallStreet lawyers get a look at them.

[cal04]

59. Cops Accused Of Trapping Wall Street Protesters On Brooklyn Bridge For Mass Arrests

http://gothamist.com/2011/10/01/breaking_occupy_wall_street_protest.php

(snip)
Christopher T. Dunn, of the New York Civil Liberties Union, was walking with protesters when they were met by police at the bridge; he says they announced repeatedly through bullhorns that the marchers were blocking the roadway and that if they continued to do so, they would be subject to arrest.

However, we spoke to two of the last people who were released—not arrested—from the Brooklyn Bridge this evening. Megan Hanley of Kensington, and Sophia Mascia of Astoria—who has been living in Liberty Square for the past three days—both corroborated the accusation that police "tricked" protesters into walking in the walk.

They told us that initially, most people were walking on the pedestrian walkway on the bridge. Cops let them onto the road—most stayed on the walkway, but some stayed on the road. Halfway on the bridge, cops blocked off marchers from both sides, and wouldn't let them go any further. The nets were taken out, and things tense for a bit. People then began to sit down, to imply to the officers that they wouldn't move:

That was when they say the arrests started—they say police just started picking people to arrest one by one arbitrarily, in no discernable order. Neither saw anyone resisting arrest, nor any violence. They said that men and women weren't separated till the very end. At that point, all the people left were in two separate lines by gender. Officers began letting a few of the women go, but another police officer made them stop, and arrested everyone left there.

(snip)
Update 8:45 p.m.: Protesters have settled into Liberty Park for the evening—15 Marines are reportedly on their way to protect protesters—and make plans for more marches (and Drag Queen shows!) tomorrow. We'll have more coverage—including pictures, interviews with protesters, video of the arrests, and more—tomorrow. Until then, here's a short video to end the day: protesters chanting the Beastie Boys' classic "No Sleep Till Brooklyn" at cops on the bridge.




500 Arrested After Protest on NY's Brooklyn Bridge
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/wall-street-protest-shuts-half-brooklyn-bridge-14648059

[Denzil_DC]

64. Somebody got a bird's eye view of it

Blogged here: http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/Live_From_WallStock_nypd_driftnets_scoop_up_a_nyt_reporter/

[Divine Discontent]

69. they did this on an iconic landmark, so funny. Thanks Coppers! lolz

Notice that little is being said about these rather large protests by the mayor (that I've seen, at least, I know he's said a little), and powers in DC.

I think they're sorta like, "UH OH! why when I'm in power?"


Or maybe some of them are thinking, "good, while I'm in power"...

I'm sure they're keeping a watchful eye on the events in NYC, and seeing all these different organizations, unions, and skilled workers protesting - I just wish I knew what they where thinking about it.

I don't know if we'll ever get another chance to get the change we want to see, so let's really support, however we can, those there already, or who are going.

I am sure that by now, every politician in DC who doesn't have blinders on, and sees all these images is thinking wow, this is really starting to spread to an actual instrument that can bring about change!

Solidarity!


http://www.zazzle.com/republicans_2012_keeping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128002960205017719

[Meandering Kitten]

74. I don't think this is the way to go

After democrats in Brooklyn stayed home in droves which opened the door for a right wing to take NY-9. It just galls me that so many democrats have time to protest but don't have time to vote.

[MADem]

77. All politics is local.

You're quite right.

[Flubadubya]

80. Would you mind taking a moment to comment upon this please?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2041678

Now, 3 questions for you...

Is a permit necessary if the police on duty give the crowd direct permission go into a certain area?

Why would the media turn around within 20 minutes and change the story to make it look as if it were totally the protesters' fault?

Do you still hold the police completely blameless for their actions?

[MADem]

82. The organizers knew how many people they had on hand.

At around two PM, they should have gone to the precinct with one of those lawyers who offered them help, and expedited a permit.

The police continue to maintain that they told people with a megaphone, repeatedly, not to go onto the paved traffic area, and that they would be arrested if they did, but the crowd linked arms and pushed forward, and there were not enough police to control hundreds of people streaming through so the police stepped back and let the cops further up the road deal with it. That's what the POLICE are saying. It's in direct opposition to a claim that they were "directed" through.

I am not a clairvoyant--I do not know who is telling the truth on that score. Until we see video, real video, not crap without sound, unedited, not ten or fourteen seconds, we won't know what really happened in a macro sense. There's got to be video out there--why isn't it on the net? What does it show--or not show?


As for the media reports, were our friends Al and Colin holding hands as they covered the story? Or was one of 'em at the back of the protest, and the other at the front? Two people can be at the same place and have completely different experiences, that can only be resolved after both experiences are heard. Again, video--not clips--a nice long stretch of video--would help clarify the matter.

I never held the police "completely blameless" so why are you even saying that? That's a false assertion on your part, designed to try to put me on the defensive and in a position of advocating for the police. There are some good police, and some bad. My only consistent point is that they are NOT THE ENEMY.

This protest is against WALL STREET, I thought. You know, corporate corruption. Congressional interconnection with Big Money fatcats who toss reelection money at slick politicians to do their bidding. The whole concept of Money Equals Speech. That was my impression of what the overarching goal was, initially. Silly me!

I fail to understand how screaming "Take the bridge" and getting pissy with cops enroute to Brooklyn (which, according to even the WORST GPS, isn't the way to Wall Street) aids this effort. Police officers are solid members of the MIDDLE CLASS, not fatcat bankers. They are tasked to make sure the ambulance can get to your house to save your dying aunt, or the fire truck can pass so your house doesn't burn down. The thing they do the MOST is direct traffic. Mixing it up with the cops does not send a message that "99 percent" of America is sick and tired of these asshole corporatists. It sends a message that young kids are feeling their oats, and that's a pity.

If these OWS people don't get their shit organized soon, they'll fade. If they focus their efforts, they can make change. This is not at all like Cairo--in Cairo, they had leadership, discipline, focus, and a primary goal that they stuck with. They weren't marching all over hell, they sat their asses down, they stayed put, and they were joined by others who swelled the crowds to "We will not be denied" proportions. They had a fucking PLAN. OWS needs to get one, too.

[Webster Green]

79. You are assuming that the activists in the streets don't vote.

I suspect you are incorrect.