"180 MPG so far is my experience with my Volt"

[Motown_Johnny]

Watching local Sunday political talk show "Flashpoint" on WDIV Detroit. The anchor Devin Scillian discloses that he has a Volt and that he is getting 180 MPG.


I don't have a link since the just happened moments ago.


Here is a link to his interview with Pres. Obama instead, best I can do at the moment.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/28199560/index.html

[Tesha]

1. You can get a million brazillion MPG if you only run in electric mode...

...and you like to lie with statistics.

But unfortunately, in the real world, kilowatts cost money too.

Tesha

[uponit7771]

2. I pay 9cents a killowatt hour,...still worth it

[Tesha]

4. Oh, I agree, but one really can't honestly claim a Volt gets "180 MPG". (NT)

[Motown_Johnny]

6. I thought it was obvious he was mostly running on electricity, sorry

didn't mean to be misleading




The point is that the electric range is adequate for most driving habits and that you don't need to buy/burn much gasoline.

[Tesha]

15. (I didn't expect that you intended to be misleading; my barb was aimed at him.) (NT)

[TheWraith]

35. Here's the actual math on running in electric mode.

The "plug to wheels" efficiency on the Volt (measuring both electricity used by the vehicle, and by the battery charger) is about 295 watt-hours to mile. Here where I live, electricity costs 12 cents per kilowatt hour. That makes the cost of driving in electric mode 3.54 cents per mile.

Now, let's look at the cost to run a gas vehicle. Let's assume you have a car which averages 30 miles to the gallon. And, further, that you're paying $3.77 a gallon for gas. (A number I plucked off the gas station signs in my home town.) That means that the cost of driving on gas is roughly 11 cents per mile.

The figures get better if you have lower rates for electricity at night, when your vehicle typically charges. For instance, if your nighttime rate is 8 cents per kilowatt-hour, then you're paying 2.36 cents per mile.

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. Where did they find a hill that long in Michigan?

[IDemo]

5. MPGE is the correct measurement, and perfectly valid

It's just a method of comparing the alternative energy required to propel a vehicle to the amount of gasoline with the same energy content:

Miles per gallon gasoline equivalent (MPGe or MPGge) is a measure of the average distance traveled per unit of energy consumed. MPGe is used by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to compare energy consumption of alternative fuel vehicles, plug-in electric vehicles and other advanced technology vehicles with the fuel economy of conventional internal combustion vehicles expressed as miles per US gallon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equivalent

[Motown_Johnny]

7. I doubt he is getting 180 MPGE

I also doubt that he is keeping track of how much electricity his Volt is using.


It was an offhand comment and not an accurate assessment of his vehicle.

[IDemo]

8. I haven't calculated the actual numbers for the Volt or seen GM's figures

But MPGE is used by the EPA, the US Department of Energy and the Society of Automotive Engineers, among others. Those who flat-out dismiss its usage in such discussions merely demonstrate their ignorance of the topic.

[Major Nikon]

24. 93 MPGE, and that's in all electric mode

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) officially rated the Volt's combined city/highway fuel economy in all-electric mode at 93 miles per gallon gasoline equivalent (MPG-e) (2.5 L gasoline equivalent/100 km; 112 mpg-imp gasoline equivalent). This rating considers a conversion factor of 33.7 kW-hr of electricity being the energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline. The EPA rating in gasoline-only mode is 37 mpg-US (6.4 L/100 km; 44 mpg-imp). The overall combined city/highway gasoline-electricity fuel economy rating is 60 mpg-US (3.9 L/100 km; 72 mpg-imp) equivalent (MPG-e),<65><68> making the Volt the most fuel-efficient compact car sold in the United States since its introduction in December 2010.<2><3><69>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. It is cleary a fraudlent statement

The laws of physics have not been repealed

[Bjorn Against]

10. The one big environmental issue with electric cars...

Much of our electricity comes from coal which is a much dirtier energy source than gasoline, while electric cars can travel further on less energy than gasoline based cars they can be just as bad for the environment if charged with coal powered electricity. Of course not everyone uses coal power, if you are able to charge your electric car with wind or solar then electric cars really are far better for the environment but if you do not have access to a clean energy source to charge your battery with you are better off getting a hybrid.

[Schema Thing]

12. Could you point me to your data wrt "coal is much dirtier than gasoline", please.

[Bjorn Against]

17. This article shows electric cars are no better when powered with coal...

Burning coal produces about three times as much carbon dioxide as gasoline, according to the Department of Energy. But an electric car, having a more efficient motor, can travel about three times as far using the same amount of energy. For instance, the Nissan Leaf gets 99 miles per "gallon equivalent" of electricity. So in the end, if all the electricity came from coal, the environmental impact would be about even.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/13/autos/electric_car_myths/index.htm

The article goes on to back up what I was saying that if you use an energy source other than coal then electric cars are better for the environment, but if you live in an area that uses primarily coal based electricity then your carbon emmisions will be about equal to a normal car. That is why I say hybrids are better for people who don't have access to a non-coal based energy source.

[Schema Thing]

22. I'll have to dig deeper. Many writers aren't qualified and don't dig deep.

"Burning coal produces about three times as much carbon dioxide as gasoline".


Perhaps yes, but in what context? Pound for pound? joule for joule? Mile driven for mile driven? (that last one would be the one that would support the writer's argument). A lot more context is needed, and writers for fluffy magazines like Money seldom do their homework. If they can seem like a "mythbuster", then people will believe anything they say uncritically.


I'm not saying the writer is wrong, but it would not surprise me if he/she is.

[csziggy]

34. Before I buy an electric car or hybrid I want a solar powered carport

There are now a number of companies producing them. The nice thing is that not only can they be used to charge up a car, they can also be set up to divert power to the house when it is not used for the car. It makes a much easier way to install solar panels than trying to retrofit them on an existing roof.

[TheWraith]

36. That article is misleading, for several reasons.

The CO2 footprint of an EV running on coal electricity, and one running on gas, is only equal if you basically tilt it completely to the advantage of the gasoline car. Assuming, for starters, that the gas car gets above average mileage. And that the EV is running PURELY on coal power, which is rarely the case even in coal-heavy parts of the country.

Even making those assumptions, one mile of travel in a gas car at 27 miles per gallon releases 0.73 pounds of CO2. An EV like the Volt eats enough electricity to release 0.67 pounds.

The AVERAGE in the US, however, is 1.3 pounds of CO2 per kilowatt-hour, compared to 2.3 for coal alone. That means that the average EV's emissions would be 0.38 pounds per mile. To equal that with a gas car, you'd need one which did 52 miles to the gallon.

[diane in sf]

38. Most of our power in California and the Pacific Northwest does not come from coal.

[Tesha]

19. It's difficult to say whether gasoline/diesel is more poluting than electricity-by-coal.

While it's true that gasoline/diesel-fueled vehicles are
a lot cleaner than they used to be, there are still point-
sources of pollution associated with their fuel chain such
as drilling and refining. Plus, the entire fuel chain has
a relatively low thermal efficiency when you consider it
"end-to-end".

Electricity-by-coal is clearly a point source. And some
base-load power plants are still very dirty in every way
while newer ones are getting down to the point of just
emitting CO₂ and gypsum. But then there's coal mining,
whether open-bit or deep-rock.

Has anyone actually done a fair, complete assessment
of both fuel chains? All I've ever read were done by
partisans of one side or the other.

Tesha

[StarsInHerHair]

26. you have to start somewhere, saying it's not clean so dont do it hardly helps

[Bjorn Against]

30. That is not at all what I am saying

What I am saying is that for some people hybrids may be a better option for the environment than electric cars.

[Kablooie]

11. CPM might be more meaningful. (cost per mile)

I get over 100 MPG in my Prius every morning.
I drive 2 miles down a steep grade.

[midnight armadillo]

13. A bicycle gets about 900 mpg

...in gasoline equivalence since we eat, um, food.

[Initech]

14. I talked to a guy who owned one - it's no that far off

He said it averages 97 MPG, and they took it to Vegas (from LA area) and back and didn't need to fill up once. They only used a total of 26 gallons of gas in a span of like 4-5 months. That's pretty impressive.

[GSLevel9]

16. The volt is about to become irrelevent...

The new Prius plug-in is a superior machine for 15k less

[JNelson6563]

20. I have no doubt Detroit will catch up.

But then again, I am pulling for the hometeam and their organized labor. I'm funny that way.

Julie

[GSLevel9]

21. GM blew it...

The car America needed was A European style compact clean-diesel similar to the VW Polo. 70mpg and 15k usd...
That's a "peoples car"... Not just an elitist toy for a few hundred people a year.

[JNelson6563]

23. lolz

Whatever. www.getaclue.com

[GSLevel9]

49. such a thoughtful answer.... are you 12? nt

[Major Nikon]

25. Makes sense if you believe in supply-side and other fairy tales

GM does make the Corsa, but it isn't sold here because there's no market for it. There have been numerous attempts at selling such cars in the US (Ford Fiesta, Yaris, etc.). None have sold very well. You can't create a market without demand. Fiat is selling a version of the 500 here in the US. Go buy one of those if you want. Not too many others are.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

27. I have driven the Corsa more than 50,000 miles

And I don't see how it could conceivably perform worse than the garbage GM is selling in that space in America.

[Major Nikon]

28. There's plenty of other similar models for sale here, past and present

I don't know of any that put up significant sales numbers. Until gas hits $6-7 per gallon and stays there, I doubt I'll see it. GM isn't completely stupid. If there were a market for the Corsa over here, I'm sure they would be selling it.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

29. The fact they are selling the Aveo suggests they might be completely stupid

The pattern for the Domestics is they fill the small car space with some of the worst vehicles ever made and then extrapolate that there is no demand for small cars.

This is why I was against the bailout, they just don't learn anything and will inevitably be back to the brink.

A couple of years ago I encountered a GM executive through work and asked him why they don't bring more of their competitive models to the US.

He explained that GM is "horrifically" over-exposed to the small car market, at the time of this conversation the only "small car" offered was the Chevy Aveo et-al. He then listed the Malibu, Impala and PT Cruiser knock-off and a couple of defunct Pontiac models as the "small cars" that threatened the survival of GM. He then went on about how it was essential to focus on the cross-over and minivan replacement SUV market where all the growth was going to be in the years ahead.

[Major Nikon]

31. I don't see too many other manufacturers doing much better

Smart was a dumb idea in the US, and even the larger class of subcompacts haven't done well. The smaller versions of the Yaris haven't done much. Neither has the Honda Fit. These types of cars do well when fuel prices spike, but once they go back down for a few months, Americans are back to buying SUVs. These cars market well in Europe where having a very small car to navigate narrow roads and tight parking spaces is a big plus. Gas will always be expensive there as well. It's just a different market here.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

32. Actually they are doing much better

The Nissan Versa outsells the Aveo 4:1, the Hyundai Accent outsells the Aveo 2:1. Even the esoteric Mini Cooper outsells the Aveo.

The Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris aren't a terribly good value, but they too outsell the Aveo.

[blue_onyx]

44. Just because they sell more....

doesn't make them better vehicles. I've been in an Accent (a family member has owned 2 of them) and it's no better than the Aveo. FYI, the Aveo has been discontinued and has been replaced by the Sonic.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

45. Are you arguing the Aveo is equal or superior to ANY of those vehicles?

The Sonic is a straight rebranding, the 2011 Aveo and 2012 Sonic are the same car based on the Daewoo Gamma II platform.

2011 Aveo:


2012 Sonic:


I actually have a barebones Hyundai Accent I bought after clunkering my girlfriends old Bronco, I also got stuck with a Pontiac Wave (an Aveo) company car back in 2006 when I first arrived in Canada and I would be pretty comfortable saying which is the better car, and not just because the Wave had to be towed to the dealer twice and had its engine replaced at 8700 miles.

[blue_onyx]

46. Absolutely

Of course you feel the Accent is better. I've seen enough of your posts regarding cars to know the vehicles would never get an unbiased assessment from you.

That's not the 2011 Aveo that was sold in the US. That's the international Aveo.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

47. Then you would know...

I bought my mother a Ford Fiesta and my love for the Opel Corsa approaches sexual.

[blue_onyx]

48. Good for you

You likely bought your mom what she wanted, not what you wanted. Then you picked a random vehicle sold in Europe as proof that you're not biased against GM. FYI, if you like Opel, look at Buick. The Verano = Astra.

If you had it your way, GM wouldn't even be around right now. Thankfully, Obama was wiser than you.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

59. Only random in I have driven the Corsa on every continent except Antarctica

I bought the Fiesta because it was good value with all the incentives and we were fed up with rescuing her every time her Sebring shit itself.

I was against bailing out GM for the same reason I was against bailing out the banks. They obviously haven't learned anything and we will be right back in the same spot with both of them probably sooner rather than later.

[flvegan]

37. The Aveo is a Daewoo.

It's a horrible car. I honestly can't think of anything recently that's worse. Really.

[Romulox]

53. Problem with conspiracy theories? They're rarely even internally consistent.

What is stopping everyone other than GM from importing these magical European and Asian supercars? The CIA? :rofl: :hi:

[GSLevel9]

50. let me tell you WHY there's no market for those cars.

The Yaris is a little golf cart... not a bad car but you are certainly sacrificing comfort and a little safety.

What do you get for the sacrifice?

The 2012 Yaris 3 door hatchback gets 30/38 mpg.

The much roomier and cozier Toyota Corolla gets 28/35 mpg.

That is NOT ENOUGH fuel saving to sacrifice the comfort and additional safety of the larger car.

Which brings us BACK to the question... WHY DON'T WE SEE EURO SPEC cars in the US?



Meet the Volkswagen Polo.

"Here's the kicker: The Polo gets 60 to 70-plus mpg. And it's really fun to drive. It's got a good bit of turbo lag, so you need to keep the revs up for serious power, but once the turbo kicks in, acceleration is frisky. And the lag makes the car feel faster than it actually is. I didn't wring it out, but over the course of a short cruise through the suburbs, it felt like a car I could gladly live with day in, day out. Fun to drive, just enough room for a family, and frugal as all get out. In Europe, the Polo sells for less than $20,000

Read more: Volkswagen’s Clean-Diesel, 70-mpg Polo May Head Stateside: Test Drive - Popular Mechanics"

Like I said... the compact cars in the US suck. There is this fallacy that Americans won't buy a car with less than 100 hp. If they bring this VW Polo TDI to the US... it will be a BIG seller.

http://www.greencar.com/articles/vw-polo-bluemotion-tops-70-mpg.php

And for the morons who think DIESEL is a dirty word:

"Now for the real shocker: the Polo BlueMotion is super clean, producing less C02 than a Toyota Prius ... and it does this without a hybrid's advantage of shutting off the engine while stopped. The Polo BlueMotion has both quick reacting oxidation catalytic converter and a diesel particulate filter. CO2 is just 99g/km; the Prius produces 104g/km. "


And let me continue...

produced on a assembly line that makes MANY cars and uses equipment that's already built and in use.

contains NO Hybrid style battery pack that is assembled half way around the world and then transported to the GM factory by cargo plane.

1/2 the price of a Volt... duh!

[Romulox]

52. And what's stopping VW from selling the Polo TDI in the USA? The Detroit 3?

:silly: :hi:

[Initech]

33. Yeah I don't know why America doesn't embrace clean diesel.

The thing is - right now Chrysler has some of the worst MPG ratings on the planet, if they build a clean-diesel Charger, Challenger, 200, and 300, they could seriously move some cars.

[Major Nikon]

51. Diesel is more expensive than mogas

The regulations put in place to make diesel cleaner increased its price so it's not as cost effective to run diesel as it once was. If the price of diesel comes down and stays down relative to mogas, I think you'll see more cars in the US running on it. Personally I see the future going more towards electric and hybrid electric, as it should.

[Initech]

55. I see it moving more toward hydrogen fuel cells and hybrid/electric.

[DainBramaged]

39. Elitist toys, like those japanese luxury hybrids to green-wash the elitists cred?

:rofl:

Someday the elitists on this board will appreciate Union/American products. Until then, they can go to hell.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

43. Says the man who couldn't find an American made TV in the 70's...

How is that Sony working for ya?

[DainBramaged]

58. Oh look I see ignored people

[JNelson6563]

18. I will be buying one in a couple of years.

I'm really looking forward to it! Thanks for posting this. :toast:

Julie

[Whats_Happening]

40. Yes, I'm sure if you can afford to drive a Volt (or a Prius) things are just dandy for right now -

-- while you buy all your food (at inflated prices) as Whole Paycheck or your local "farmers' market" where you mingle with your fellow latte-liberals.

-- As you maintain your lackadasicalness vis-a-vis illegal immigration -- after all, who else will you be able to pay virtually nothing to to mow your lawn while you're gallivanting around the country self-importantly with your iPads, as overpaid consultants. -- But it's cool, right? You douchebags are "creative" -- so it's all cool, right? (God forbid they try to stick us with any more H1Bs, though, right? Some illegal Mexican mows your lawn, that's global freedom! Some subcontinental Indian comes over here to be an IT guy, that's "taking our (elite) jorbs!"

Honestly, is Obama a terribly wishy-washy Democrat, economics-wise? Sure enough he is. But he wouldn't be so hard to swallow, even for the independents, if we didn't know so well that all he stands for these days is for people with granite-topped "islands" in their kitchens where they chop up "organic" produce with hoity-toity knives before you drop it in into "Le Crueset (sp?)" pans -- just to prove how much better you are than the rest of us.

Honestly -- I want to see Obama actually win again in 2012 -- if Democrats could just find a way to throw over you latte liberals, we would make your (annoying) votes up over and over again with middle-of-the-roaders (independents.)

-- I long for the day when we can let the American people believe that the stuck-ups who like to tell us that "no-one I know can SURVIVE on less than 100K a year" (because I live in NYC, or SanFran, and I'm hip) -- that they are, that you are, fundamentally Republicans, no matter how hip and ironic and trustafarian you may seem. :shrug:

[a la izquierda]

41. Um, wow.

What a post. I'm sure you'll make a TON of friends here.
I guess I'm a latte liberal (I'm actually a socialist, but thanks for the really cute moniker). I'm a university professor. Folks like you divide the Democratic party and then whine, whine, whine.

I enjoy future posts on undocumented workers from you. Kudos.

[DainBramaged]

42. "As you maintain your lackadasicalness vis-a-vis illegal immigration "

Wow just wow


99% of us are too fucking poor to afford people to mow the lawns of the rooms and apartments we live in.


Jesus help us.

[Romulox]

54. That's funny. I've read a couple of complaints here on DU about the cheap labor drying up in Al.

:shrug:

[DainBramaged]

56. Definitely not a Union fella, not with using language like that

Some other sentences were, shall we say, suspicious.

[ileus]

57. My jeep wrangler only consumes 20 gallon a year.