Occupiers: I love you—but you really have to move beyond this.

[ChillbertKChesterton]

"Neoliberalism couldn’t ask for a less threatening kind of dissent."


http://lbo-news.com/2011/09/29/the-occupy-wall-street-non-agenda/

An interesting article with criticisms and suggestions for the protesters:

By Doug Henwood

I’m not here to disparage Occupy Wall Street; I admire the tenacity and nerve of the occupiers, and hope it grows.

snip

Why the emphasis on multiplicity and process? I think it’s a living instance of a problem that Jodi Dean identified last November—a paralysis of the will, though one disguised as a set of principles:

Once the New Left delegitimized the old one, it made political will into an offense, a crime with all sorts of different elements:

- taking the place or speaking for another (the crime of representation);
- obscuring other crimes and harms (the crime of exclusion);
- judging, condemning, and failing to acknowledge the large terrain of complicating factors necessarily disrupting simple notions of agency (the crime of dogmatism);
-employing dangerous totalizing fantasies that posit an end of history and lead to genocidal adventurism (the crime of utopianism or, as Mark Fisher so persuasively demonstrates, of adopting a fundamentally irrational and unrealistic stance, of failing to concede to the reality of capitalism).

An agenda—and an organization, and some kind of leadership that could speak and be spoken to—would violate these rules. Distilling things down to a simple set of demands would be hierarchical, and commit a crime of exclusion. Having an organization with some sort of leadership would force some to speak for others, the crime of representation.

But without those things, as Jodi says, there can be no politics. “It is instead an ethics. Is it any surprise, then, that under neoliberalism ostensible leftists spend countless hours and pages and keystrokes elaborating ethics? The ethics of this or the ethics of that, fundamentally personal and individual approaches that obscure and deny the systems and structures in which they are embedded?”

[Warpy]

1. Have you been reading those signs?

The union guys showing up are using the "s" word.

STRIKE.

That's the only thing that's going to get their attention without getting a lot of people killed.

[Creideiki]

18. Strikes that are other than stay-home strikes will get a lot of people killed

That's what history teaches. A general strike in the US would be dealt with harshly.

[Warpy]

35. Not if people stay home, which is how it will have to be promoted.

[ixion]

2. unrec for Third Way triangulation nonsense.

That time is over.

[truedelphi]

20. Same here - the protesters have released their Manfesto

And it is up here on DU so that we can all read it and add our recs and send it out to the Lame Stream Media so they get over the Talking Point that no one protesting knows what they want

[Scruffy1]

30. Might be the lamest post ever, but I don't unrec.

As a matter of fact I should recommend for humor. Something is happening here and you don't know what it is, Do you Mr. Jones?

[yardwork]

33. Reccing this response!

[EFerrari]

3. Oh, bulleria. They're occupying Wall Street, for chrissakes

and their movement is spreading all over the country.

Lead, follow or get out of the frickin' way.

[Keefer]

25. They are NOT occupying Wall Street...

The police are PROTECTING Wall Street. I would LOVE it if they were actually ON Wall Street.

[KT2000]

4. One thing is for sure

As soon as anyone DOES something, there is always a lineup of complainers. Screw 'em. They should first of all, get out of their pajamas, and then get out there with what they consider are the correct signs.

Oh and - Complainers - I love you BUT - you are a pain in the ass.

[EFerrari]

6. "We have reservations."

[ChandlerJr]

5. They need to call for Obama to clean out the Wall Street bankers

in his White House or step down. The Media can only shield the President for so long, these people are not going away.

[Ikonoklast]

7. Really.

Sounds like Paulist crap to me.

[ChandlerJr]

8. Timmy Geithner, Jeffy Immelt and a revolving door with Goldman

and Morgan sounds like Pope Paul to you?

Patoooi

[Ikonoklast]

12. Asking for Obama to step down if they don't resign?

Fuck anyone that is promoting that steaming pile.

[ChandlerJr]

26. I haven't seen any Obama, Hope and Change or yes we can signs

or heard any similar chants in this whole #occupywallstreet movement. These people aren't interested in your agenda, They seem to care less about Obama, they want to get the Wall Streeters out of power and take back the White House and the nation for mainstreet. This has the potential to blowback big time on him.

The President had better address this unrest, and he better unload the culprits.

[Ikonoklast]

27. 'My' agenda?

The only person I see with any sort of agenda in this thread is you.

The only potential blowback I see coming from this protest has very little to do with Obama, no matter how hard you try to make it so.

[ChandlerJr]

28. And LBJ said we were just a bunch of dirty smelly malcontent disruptive

hippies just before he said....

"Accordingly, I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination of my party for another term as your President."

[Ikonoklast]

29. LBJ was done in by the Left wing of the Party.

If you think that actually helped things, you'd be dead wrong.


We got that monster Nixon as a result, so be very careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

[ChandlerJr]

32. I'm not wishing for anything, just saying that Obama better get

his comfortable marching shoes on and sprint to the front of this parade. Blaming the "other guy" Just ain't going to cut it anymore.

[Lizzie Poppet]

34. Don't hold your breath.

Expecting Obama (or any other politician) to actually follow through on his lofty campaign promises is naive. He works for that 1%. Only a handful of them don't (Kucinich, deFazio, etc.).

[CoffeeCat]

10. Seriously?

I'm on Ron Pauler, but I certainly believe that Obama needs
to get the bankers, Wall Street and the rest of the corporate
pigs out of his administration. He needs to stop kow towing
to the energy companies and the health-insurance lobby as well.

Corporate power has corrupted our government and we need it out
of the people's House.

Who in the hell doesn't want that?

Geez--Bill Maher, Michael Moore, George Carlin and most Progressive
thinkers and bloggers completely agree with this. In fact most
Americans do not like how the corporations have hijacked our government.

[CoffeeCat]

9. I'm torn about this...

On one hand, I agree with EFerrari. The protesters are on Wall Street. We all see the signs.
We understand that this is about the banks, the economy--and corporate interests corrupting
our political system and our democracy.

So, I do agree that everyone generally knows why they are there.

And in all fairness, this protest is relatively new and growing. It isn't' being run by a
Madison Avenue advertising firm, complete with slogans and soundbytes. This is "We The People".

With that said--as this movement grows--I hope some organizational details will be firmed up.
Centralizing the message and agreeing on a handful of basic points could only help to increase
awareness of the cause and to attract others to it as well.

And like it or not--we live in a "soundbyte" era. You need one sentence or several words--which
conveys your message. This will only attract more people to the movement.

Most Americans understand that the corporations are corrupt as hell and that they pretty much run
our government---and that the little guy is getting screwed. If someone could craft a few
"points" that would reflect these general concerns, it could broaden the movement and make it
more powerful.

In fact, I think that doing this could cause this movement to go viral. I don't care if you're
a tea partier or a liberal or a Ron Paul supporter--if we have no democracy--we all lose. We all
need a legitimate democracy--a framework--from which to fight for our beliefs. The problem is--
our foundation has been shattered and the corporations control our government. If this movement
could define themselves as being for "WE THE PEOPLE" and restoring democracy--it could change the
world.

[CTyankee]

11. Well, it's hard to craft a manifesto for people with the attention span of a gnat.

If this gets enough energy behind it, there could be a refinement of style and message. It will take some leaders and that will come. It always does, if history serves us....

[chrisa]

16. A leader makes the protest about themselves.

I hope it remains leaderless, personally. Not an opportunity for some show-boating tool to waltz on stage, spout some contrived bull crap, and then become the "owner" of these protests. That would just be sad.

[CTyankee]

22. I know. It is a sad fact. But some leaders aren't that bad and we can come up with

a few names like Nelson Mandela. It happens.

[TBF]

31. Agree. They've started this with an emphasis on class which puts them

ahead of many who are slogging away with partisan politics. That needs to remain the focus. The addition of unions would help them with organization, thinking through demands, etc ...

It's a process and this is just starting.

[Worship Money]

13. Strange sort

Of attempted obfuscation, of a very real and growing movement.

I say this because I don't see how the protests AREN'T already doing what the article is suggesting. Talk about Ron Paul supporters aside, this is a populist, leftist movement with tangible demands.

[chrisa]

14. Whoever wrote this, if I'm reading it right, knows nothing about internet activism.

Calling for there to be a leader to the protests shows me this. The nature of the protests dictate that there cannot be a leader of the protests. Not getting this concept means not getting the point of the protests.

[L0oniX]

15. Unrec

[Bluenorthwest]

17. Quaint, dated, last century centrist rhetoric

Rejected.

[RegieRocker]

19. Move on? Only after substantial results are acheived.

If anything more areas of the corruption need to be Occupied.

[pa28]

21. He's expecting something with the look of a mature movement from the beginning.

Every protest movement has to start somewhere and OWS is going about their business peacefully and effectively. They'll eventually develop a message but for now they are doing exactly what they set out to do . . . occupy Wall Street.

We all know how we feel about Wall Street but putting it into words can be like speaking another language that few understand. Just the act of turning out in opposition strikes a chord and we're seeing it catch on. The polish and the words will come as the movement develops.

[loyalsister]

23. I have seen advocacy and protests escalate too soon

Some romanticize themselves out of credibility.
With no clear solution or goal, there is no real tangible explanation for the movement. Why would any outsider who should be a potential ally support these protestors? There should be a concise answers to why and what the goals and objectives are.
There are too many people who rely on the current system to simply say undo it, tear it down, with no replacement that offers security for people who still have jobs, and\or people who rely on capitalistic entities to survive. ie Food suppliers, health care providers, housing authorities, rental agencies, gas providers, etc... are all capitalistic entities. These protestors can not realistically expect people to be willing give up their security and livelihood in support of lofty undefined ideals.
Realistic goals with someone to broker them would go a long way toward gaining support from more ordinary people as well as people who have political power. Like it or not, any real change without doing damage to the lives of most of the citizenry requires accepting the fact that we have to work with the political system we have.

[WilliamPitt]

24. Thanks for your concern.

[spanone]

36. hogwash