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"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it."

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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 01:58 AM
Original message
Poll question: "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it."
Edited on Wed Oct-05-11 02:17 AM by Skip Intro
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Somebody else can defend the Westboro Baptist church's speech
I know it has to be done, but it's not going to be me.

I do have my limits.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. What they say is not their problem, it's where they say it.
And that can be subject to regulation. Time, place, and manner regulations of speech are consistent with the Constitution.

They should not be allowed to disturb funerals or similarly solemn events. But much as I disagree with them, I think they should have the right to speak freely.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. For example, Australia would have none of that.
When Phelps announced that Heath Ledger was in hell because he played a gay man, Australia pre-emptively banned his ass from entering their country.
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. Free speech has limits?
It's easy to be in favor of free speech when it's speech that you like.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. or "I shall defend to YOUR death the right to say it" not sure who that quote is from lol nt
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. it's by
Voltaire
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
3. If freedom of speech doesn't apply to all then it isn't freedom of speech.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. Thank you. This is the only answer.
Anyone answering any differently will be silenced.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
4. YES!
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
5. If I am responsible for hiring the help to create a musical interlude before my TV network's
airing of NFL football games, I don't want that help saying crap that will piss off half my viewing audience and leave them poorly disposed towards my production.

So,while I would defend the right of anyone to say anything offensive if they'd like, I would also defend my right to say "That shit doesn't fly with me or my audience, hence it's 'so long,farewell' to you, mon frere!"

When your game is dealing with the public, you've gotta figure not all of them share your views--particularly when your views are moronic.

You don't have to shut up and sing, but you do have to understand that if people don't like the crap coming out of your mouth, they aren't going to patronize you. You don't have a "right" to an audience--that, you EARN....or not, with your big mouth.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. In most states, employees can't say what they want while on the job.
That's in the US. It used to be different in Germany, but I don't know what the law is there now.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. Who defines what is and is not acceptable?
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Kennah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
7. I know I'm going to hear complaints over my use of the N-word ...
... but there might well have been some who repeated the OP's quote in Germany before the Nazis.

Germany today restricts free speech in the area of holocaust denial, racist agitation and antisemitism.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. well then they don't have free speech. should we re-evaluate our devotion to it? Should we outlaw
certain speech?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. And we permitted certain remedies to right the wrongs of segregation
but only in those areas in which their was a serious tradition of racial discrimination. That is a different matter. Still, I prefer pretty absolute freedom of speech. It's hard to know where to draw the line, and authorities will almost always err on the side of repression.
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
8. I voted yes, but
As a business person AND as a private individual I retain right of association. If your speech is excessively offensive or otherwise beyond the pale, I may well choose not to associate myself with you on either a business or personal basis.

"Freedom of speech" as protected by the Constitution precludes government interference with the exercise of free speech, and that right is certainly worth defending with every fiber of our being. So it would be completely improper, for example, of the government to impinge on Hank Williams, Jr. for his recent statements.

I, on the other hand, am at perfect liberty to drop him like a bad transmission.

That, too, is protected expression.

Trav
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Of course, but this is much bigger than Hank Williams Jr.
Edited on Wed Oct-05-11 02:32 AM by Skip Intro
What he said is mild compared to what may say and could say.

This isn't about picking and choosing.

Well, maybe it is.

But if we get into qualifying freedoms, as in, some are free to speak, but this and that person needs to be ignored and punished for saying such things, we really don't give a flying fuck about freedom at all, do we?
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. I don't see your point
You can say anything you want. (Let's ignore the sensible exceptions like death threats, "fire" in the theater, etc.)

And I get to hear you. After I hear you, I may or may not wish to associate with you. I may infer that associating with you might be damaging to my own reputation, or may be taken as an expression of a sympathetic viewpoint. If I do not agree with your viewpoint, and find it offensive to myself and a significant chunk of my customer base, it is only logical to distance myself from you.

These considerations are very important in marketing. The marketing value of the HWJ tune to ESPN was damaged by his controversial and outrageous comments. So from a business viewpoint, he shot himself in the foot.



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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. The whole "Freedom of Speech" thing means that the GOVERNMENT won't throw you in the pokey for
speaking your mind.

Your boss can fire you, your friends can shun you, your spouse can divorce you if you start talking crap, but the government can't (with few execptions, like, say, communicating a threat) throw you in jail for simply voicing an asinine opinion.

ESPN, which is as we know 'not the government,' had every right to drop that ugly-ass loser HWJr. like a bad transmission, too. They'll probably have him back after the fuss dies down; pity the voice of the AFLAC duck didn't get the same consideration! He had more talent!
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Yo_Mama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. Of course!
The US constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech and association doesn't limit private rights of speech and association, it protects them from government interference.

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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Well said, sir
You just explained why I can't burn a flag in the courthouse square.

Sure, I'm allowed by government decree, but I have a poor health care plan and the govt won't stop others from expressing themselves to me.
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
11. Absolutely...
One complaint I have with both sides of the political spectrum is that they seem to support free speech only if they agree with the content.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
12. True or false: the AUMF made it legal for President Obama to kill al-Alwaki.
It's true.
And it is not a matter of opinion.
It is the law.
But you wouldn't know that here at the DU where peeps have went out of their way to bash President Obama for that drone attack.
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. Yes, absolutely, but I retain the right to say...
"Fuck you and the horse you rode in on", and I don't hesitate to add the internet shortcut "STFU".

Does that curb a right wing nut's freedom of speech?... I ask them if I can burn a fucking flag.
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Bloke 32 Donating Member (201 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
20. Do you love your mum?
Platitudinous waste of webspace. Unrecced.
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Do you wish that your country had a Constitutional guarantee of free speech?
Are you comfortable that your Government can pass any laws it wants to limiting free speech?
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
23. I will actively defend statements I think have merit. All others I will allow to pass unopposed. nt
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
24. Yes.
But the corollary, of course, is that the answer to harmful speech is more speech. That is what is missing in America today.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
25. Um...I have to laugh a bit
at the results so far.

They seem to be in opposition to what I see on a regular (daily) basis (although not, as far as I can tell, from anyone posting so far).

Not only will some people NOT "defend to the death" someone else's right to say something, they will call someone else with a different opinion all kinds of nasty names, then welcome that person to their ignore list.

All for the crime of having a different opinion.


The irony is priceless.

:eyes:

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
26. You have a right to be an asshole, and others have a right to bash you for being an asshole.
Over in Europe, for instance, they simply ban Nazi stuff. Here in the US when the Nazis come to town they are stared town by an even bigger counter-rally! :evilgrin:
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rustydog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
28. It is so easy and effortless to defend popular speech:
"God Bless America. Blessed are the meek...I have yet begun to fight..."
It is so much harder to DEFEND, not support someone's right to protest at funerals. It is the unpopular speech the constitution refers to and what is the hardest to defend.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-11 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
29. I will defend anyone's right to say anything they want against government interference.
The government has no right to censor speech, and that is an absolute.

Private individuals and companies? Fair game.
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