10 month old baby girl kidnapped, no luck in search for her

[proud2BlibKansan]

This is so damned sad. Sounds like someone came in the house through a window in the middle of the night and took this baby. And it doesn't look like it's a family member, as so often happens in chid abductions. She disappeared Monday night/Tuesday morning.

Parents plead for return of child

By BRIAN BURNES and ROBERT A. CRONKLETON

The Kansas City Star

The parents of 10-month-old Lisa Irwin, missing since early Tuesday, pleaded for her return during a Wednesday afternoon press conference.

“Anybody who might have her can drop her off anyplace safe — a fire station or hospital or church — no questions asked,” said Jeremy Irwin, the child’s father.

“We just want to have her back.”

“We just want to bring our baby back, please bring her home,” Deborah Bradley, the child’s mother, added tearfully. “Our two other boys are waiting for her.

“Just bring her home.”



Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/05/3189103/parents-plead-for-return-of-child.html#ixzz1Zxr4O6xK

[cbdo2007]

1. This can't be random....it must be an acquaintance at the very least.

Praying for this family though, this is just a few miles from where I live with my own 1 year old :(

Whatever happened, I hope the situation gets resolved peacefully and that the child is brought back safe.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Sure looks random though

It's a horrible story.

[Xithras]

26. I really doubt that. There has to be some sort of connection.

It doesn't look like a burglary. Someone knew the baby was there. Someone knew where the baby was in the home. Someone knew that they didn't have landline phones in their house and took the time to hunt down and steal their cellphones to delay their 911 calls.

This wasn't an random snatch off the street, but a targeted incursion into a house where the kidnapper KNEW the baby would be located. There has to be a connection. A neighbor, a gardener, a relative, a friend, a former co-worker, a nurse. It's probably someone they don't communicate with regularly, but who knows them well enough to have at least some basic background info on them.

[Blue_Tires]

35. Unless there was some kind of accident and the parents decided to pull a Casey Anthony

[Xithras]

43. That should be easy enough to prove/disprove.

There are other little kids in the house, and kids are generally easy to break under questioning. The dad was supposedly at work until he came home at 4AM and discovered his kid missing. Again, easy to verify. The cellphones were taken from the home and presumably turned off. Once again, there will be records showing exactly when the phones were powered off or moved, which will identify the time of the kidnapping. The mother could have theoretically done it herself, but there would have only been a limited time window for her to act. If the killing was accidental, she wouldn't have had time to plan the body disposal and would have probably disposed of it nearby. It hasn't turned up yet. If the killing was deliberate, it would be unusual because mothers who kill their children generally try to kill them all.

It's not outside the realm of possibility that this is a coverup, but I think it's unlikely. You know that the first thing the police did was to verify their stories, and if there were holes they'd already be focusing on them.

[Blue_Tires]

51. Of course for the hypothetical sake of discussion

IF there was an accident/murder, it would have happened before the night of the 'incident'...It's easy enough to smokescreen the other kids for 24 hours on why they haven't seen their sister, in which time you still go through your normal routine, dispose of the body and setup the big 'kidnapping'...

And as I said before, if there really is a kidnapper (with no collusion with the parents) and he/she did take the phones, then that kidnapper is one of the stupidest criminals around and it should have taken cops 30 minutes to make an arrest...

[xmas74]

57. The oldest kid is eight.

He's old enough that if questioned he would know the difference in a day.

I don't think it's the parents. I do suspect it's a neighbor or maybe someone they know.

[cbdo2007]

27. The police are focusing on the neighbors....

Because it must have been someone who somewhat knew their house and their routine and had watched them.

Yes it is horrible, we could hear search helicopters flying around last evening and my wife had our baby sleep with us.

[xmas74]

58. I know someone else in the area

who has their kids sleeping with them. She said she's telling the kids that they are having a huge sleepover in mommy and daddy's room for the next few days.

Even the morning djs on the radio stations are talking about how scared they are. One was saying this morning that she made her husband get up and repeatedly check all the doors and windows.

[TheWraith]

2. Usually when children under 1 are kidnapped, the perp is a mentally ill woman...

Sometimes women in delusional states like that will kidnap a child to raise as their own.

[CTyankee]

9. I hope you are right and I hope that the deluded woman returns the child or

someone recognizes the baby from the photos that are being published.

[TheWraith]

33. It's not too hard to catch unless she's a hermit.

If, say, your slightly creepy neighbor lady suddenly has a baby without you noticing her having been pregnant, it tends to set off alarm bells for most people.

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. I have heard of that happening before.

[CoffeeCat]

4. It had to be someone familiar with the family...

I'm not saying that the family is guilty--but someone had to know that this family
had a baby. They knew what they were after when they broke into the home.

Look at that gorgeous baby. She's so adorable. Someone wanted her for their
own. It's just sick.

With all of the security cameras everywhere--you'd think there would be some kind of
tape of cars going in and out of the area, etc.

I can't imagine what this family is enduring. It's just heartbreaking.

[Shagbark Hickory]

5. Raising Arizona n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Except this isn't the least bit funny

[Shagbark Hickory]

8. Why is it national news? Because it's been a year since the last media fixation on 1 missing girl?

[seabeyond]

10. publicity for something like this is a good thing. nt

[Little Star]

12. +1

[Shagbark Hickory]

13. But it's not fair. How come one missing child out of MANY gets it?

All missing children and all missing pets should get the same level of publicity IMO.

[seabeyond]

15. really? generally this is with an argument of a pretty blonde. never resentment associated w/ pets

for a baby to be lost in this manner, or stolen from hospital, or out of car, it would be put on tv to address people who may know a woman that all of a sudden becomes a mom.

i dont get your real problem with this.

maybe you need to escalate the anger when they have a pretty blonde missing or dead. you will have others support you more.

[Shagbark Hickory]

19. It's selective.

Not fair.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. Thus proving my DU Axiom #2,075

some people will complain about absolutely ANYTHING.

[Shagbark Hickory]

28. OK. I originally posted because the whole story is reminiscent of Raising Arizona.

It's a perfectly relevant reply.

We got off topic and I let it known that I think selective coverage is unfair.

I have nothing more to contribute to this discussion.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. I think you said it all with the 'missing children & pets' comment.

Rarely do I read anything here that makes my jaw literally hit the floor, but that one did.

OTOH, Raising Arizona is a classic movie.

[Shagbark Hickory]

37. You obviously don't have pets. N/t

[Warren DeMontague]

40. I've had pets AND kids.

They're not the same thing. Not even close.

[Shagbark Hickory]

42. I took the liberty of searching MissingKids.com for children missing in your state in the last year.

There's 8 Children missing.

I've not heard of any of them. Have you?



BURGANDY IELANE COUCH
Missing Since: 8/20/11
Age Now: 14
Missing from:
BAKER CITY, OR
View Poster
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children

ARIANA PEROT FLETCHER
Missing Since: 6/28/11
Age Now: 14
Missing from:
MONMOUTH, OR
View Poster
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children

KAYLEE RAE FOWLER
Missing Since: 8/24/11
Age Now: 13
Missing from:
GRANTS PASS, OR
View Poster
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children

MONIQUE A. HOBBS
Missing Since: 6/28/11
Age Now: 15
Missing from:
PORTLAND, OR
View Poster
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children

NATALIE MARIE LYONS
Missing Since: 9/26/11
Age Now: 14
Missing from:
MILWAUKIE, OR
View Poster
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children

PAUL WILLIAM TODD MARENCO
Missing Since: 10/17/10
Age Now: 10
Missing from:
FOREST GROVE, OR
View Poster
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children

HECTOR ZUNIGA
Missing Since: 3/11/11
Age Now: 6
Missing from:
PORTLAND, OR
View Poster
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children

SHEIMY A ZUNIGA
Missing Since: 3/11/11
Age Now: 11
Missing from:
PORTLAND, OR
View Poster
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children

[Warren DeMontague]

46. Maybe since you're not a parent, you don't know the difference between a 14 yr old

and a 10 month old baby.

Rest assured, they're not the same, any more than snookums the cat is indistinguishable from Richard Feynman.

Re: Your list (which leaves out another one, Kyron Horman) I had to guess, for instance, the Zunigas are a custody situation. Not good, not happy, but significantly different than a 10 MONTH OLD BABY BEING TAKEN OUT OF A WINDOW BY GOD KNOWS WHO.

[seabeyond]

16. really? generally this is with an argument of a pretty blonde. never resentment associated w/ pets

for a baby to be lost in this manner, or stolen from hospital, or out of car, it would be put on tv to address people who may know a woman that all of a sudden becomes a mom.

i dont get your real problem with this.

maybe you need to escalate the anger when they have a pretty blonde missing or dead. you will have others support you more.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. "all missing children and all missing pets"- are you fucking SERIOUS?

Yes, muffy the cat going missing and a 10 month old baby being taken out a window- 2 situations of exactly the same seriousness.

You HAVE to be kidding, or else you need to re-calibrate some shit bigtime.

[Shagbark Hickory]

32. Why recalibrate? I think I've calibrated it perfectly.

Some people have spent more time with their pets than with their young children.
To some pets are family and have close bonds. To others pets are just animals. Livestock.

I don't want to involve the parents in this case in my example . Like many pet owners, I've spent more time with my pets than most parents of very young missing children and infants have spent with their children. We're very attached. So if my pets were to go missing or get stolen, I would hope their case would get more attention than just a flyer taped to a light pole. At the very least I would want their photos broadcast on World News with Diane Sawyer.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Yeah, you're clearly not a parent.

Guess what? I'm going to put aside my usual attempt to follow the outlines of general semantics in my posts, and make a very non-Korzybyski-like statement:

YOUR "FUR BABIES" ARE NOT PEOPLE, AND THEY NEVER WILL BE. YOU CAN LOVE YOUR DOGGY OR KITTY, BUT IT IS NOT A CHILD. NOT EVEN CLOSE. SORRY.

[Shagbark Hickory]

39. You're right. I'm certain my bond with my pets is stronger than most people have with their children

[Warren DeMontague]

41. Cool.

Your posts here speak for themselves. I have nothing to add.

[Shagbark Hickory]

45. I guess I'll use this opportunity to get the last word in then.

Have a nice day Warren DeMontague. :hi:

[Warren DeMontague]

47. "And when there was no crawdad, we ate sand"

"you ate SAND?"

[Number23]

55. Somehow, your posts manage to get more and more absurd in this thread

Which is pretty impressive considering where you started out from.

I'm certain my bond with my pets is stronger than most people have with their children

Do you work for Leno?

[cbdo2007]

29. Life isn't fair.

[undeterred]

59. I think in this case the publicity is very likely to help find the child alive.

[xmas74]

62. I hope it does.

My child isn't so little any more but this case makes me jumpy. It's too close for comfort, especially for those with younger children.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Because stranger abductions are rare

And this is a 10 month old baby.

[Shagbark Hickory]

14. And this is fair how?

A missing child is a missing child regardless of how they go missing.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. Because if it's really a stranger abduction as opposed to, say, a non-custodial parent

time is of the essence.

A lot easier to track down a non-custodial parent in 6 months or a year, b/c you know WHO THEY ARE.

[Shagbark Hickory]

34. I'm not saying not to do it.

I'm just saying to give every missing person's case the same level of attention.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. I thought it was missing persons and pets?

So wait a minute: You REALLY can't figure out why people display extra concern over a MISSING BABY?

No shit?

Half of me thinks you're putting us on.

Anyway, a 10 mo. old baby, 40 year old man, and missing tabby all ought to be able to care for themselves equally out in, say, a forest, right?

[Warren DeMontague]

22. It's a BABY that's MISSING.

Sorry if the coverage annoys you. :eyes:

[pipoman]

6. It will be interesting

to see who will be implicated. There are a million scenarios.

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. They always look at family, especially Dads, first don't they?

[pipoman]

71. yep. Family first..

Accidents caused by siblings etc. Sometimes it takes a while for the investigation to reveal inconsistencies in stories and/or unusual acts. There was a case locally of a couple who had two sons, I believe 10 and 13, and a daughter who was 3. The boys were playing jackass and killed the 3 year old. The parents tried to cover up the truth. It took 2 or 3 weeks before the boys were charged. In the mean time the official story was that the 3 year old fell out of a tree. I suspect the police knew or suspected this wasn't true shortly into the investigation.

[Cali_Democrat]

20. How horrible. n/t

[ecstatic]

21. So sad. If she's still alive, it could be decades

before they see her again. :( I wonder if they used a baby monitor and the kidnapper listened in to their habits?

[Blue_Tires]

31. So someone just waltzed into a house in the middle of the night,

snatched the baby and left?

Oh, and it gets better: Another story says the burglar also stole three cell phones so no one would call 911?
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#storylink=omni_popular

If it's not the the next-door neighbor or a jealous sister-in-law (which the police probably screened first), I'm betting the parents' "official" version of what happened falls apart in 72 hours...

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. The parents are very credible, IMO

Only time will tell.

[Sienna86]

48. Were the parents polygraphed?

That's usually the first item on the agenda to rule them out and move on to other suspects.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. Yes I think so

[Blue_Tires]

49. I know there are a lot of details left out of the story

but from what I'm reading it doesn't add up...

Was there forced entry? The number of people in their social circle who 1. Knew the family's general schedule and 2. Knew they didn't have a landline and to swipe the cell phones can't be *that* large...There should be a VERY short and obvious list of suspects...

Also, if I'm a kidnapper, why steal the phones anyway? The parents won't find out until morning either way, and the extra 5 minutes it takes them to run next door and use the neighbor's phone doesn't help me in my escape...To say nothing of the fact that unneccessarily taking something from the scene of a crime, even if I dispose of it, can put cops on my trail...

[Blue_Tires]

52. The more I'm learning about it, the less sense it makes...

So...A burglar came in the window, TURNED ON the lights, took the kid and the phones, and presumably left out the front door?? Am I accurate in that recap? No one noticed anything?? Why didn't the father have his cell phone with him??

[Number23]

54. This whole story has made me sick to my stomach

But I have to admit the "they stole our cell phones too" bit is a bit too farfetched. Half the time I can barely find my cell phone in my freaking purse, so the idea that someone knows EXACTLY where people keep their cell phones in their house is absolutely surreal.

It had to be someone who knew these people, if not the people themselves. God, please let no harm come to this baby.

[xmas74]

56. What she said on local news

was that they had a cell phone that no longer worked and that she was charging the other cell phones on the kitchen counter. She had all three cell phones because she was taking the numbers out of the non working phone and putting them in the other phones. If the person walked through the kitchen (I don't know the layout of the house) and saw them on the counter, who knows?

Watching her on local news was just heartbreaking. She seemed credible and the dad's timeline seems to fit too. What I'm curious about is the neighbor who supposedly saw a man with a kid in only a diaper at 1 am. If I saw a man I didn't recognize at one am clutching a kid in a diaper close to my chest, scurrying out of the area I would have called the police. That comment has been repeated on local broadcasts and it makes me think one of the neighbors is involved.

[Number23]

60. Okay. Thank you for that.

I wanted to read more of what you said and I went to an ABC link on this story. I just saw the mother. God, I wish I hadn't

[xmas74]

61. It's a punch to the stomach, isn't it?

She's just distraught. I know I cried with her during her report. The dad's timeline seems to be normal.

I really don't think it's one of the parents. I kinda think it might be a neighbor. The phones were there, someone was in a panic, and maybe it just seemed like a good idea. They thought someone would wake up and it would give them a five minute head start or something.

[alcibiades_mystery]

63. Agreed...parents will end up on the hook here

72 hours sounds about right.

[Morning Dew]

50. Nancy Grace will interfere in the investigation

and foul it all up. Again.

[Logical]

64. This story seems fishy to me. The parents have stopped cooperating....

with the police. Which I understand because I do not trust the cops either.

Nothing disturbed in the house and all three of their cell phones stolen? Sounds weird.

[gkhouston]

68. According to post #54, the mom has said the phones were charging on the kitchen counter. n/t

[Logical]

70. Why take the phones? It delays the police from being called by maybe 2 minutes.

[cbdo2007]

74. That was husband's theory....

Here is an interesting video clip....husband says a few things presumptious, like he's relaying a prepared story and adding explanations, rather than just telling what happened:

http://www.kmbc.com/news/29404237/detail.html

The mom seemed genuine but the Dad's is acting really fishy and he was the only one up and about during the middle of the night.

[gkhouston]

76. We probably won't know unless the police get a confession from someone.

As someone else as already pointed out in this thread, infants are often abducted by mentally ill women, so expecting fully rational behavior may not be productive.

[cbdo2007]

79. Why take the phones and leave all the lights on??

If someone is trying to delay getting caught by going out of their way to unplug cell phones and take them with them, why leave the lights on which would signal an obvious warning sign that something weird is going on? This all doesn't add up.

[Logical]

82. Good point.

[tblue37]

65. Suspicious development?

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Police say the parents of a missing 10-month-old Missouri girl are no longer cooperating with authorities.

Kansas City police spokesman Steve Young said Thursday night that Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin have decided to stop talking to detectives. He didn't provide details

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/parents-of-missing-missouri-1195440.html

Of course, if the parents, even if innocent, feel the cops are pushing to pin something on them, then they'd clam up, just as so many posts on DU warn us to do. Still, it looks bad that they won't cooperate with the cops trying to find their baby.

[Liberal_in_LA]

66. uh oh. hope the baby is ok, whereever she is.

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. I'm not sure what to think anymore

[cbdo2007]

69. The stories aren't adding up. Usually when things seem too strange like this

they usually are. The cell phone/landline thing really got me. I guess we'll see but I think the parents must be involved somehow. Too many unanswered questions. Many times the cops will play along with the parents just to get them to slip up, so I'm guessing the parents are the prime suspects and the cops have just been gathering evidence this whole time.

Still praying for baby. :(

[TwilightGardener]

72. Time to lawyer up.

[xmas74]

73. According to this link from a local station

a family member has come forward and said that the parents have never stopped cooperating. A statement has been released to confirm that info by the family. (scroll down the link)

http://www.kmbc.com/news/29412189/detail.html

I don't know what to think.

[TwilightGardener]

75. If the POLICE say they're not cooperating, then obviously they feel the

parents might be holding back further info and they are being denied access to it for some reason. Which is exactly what I wouldn't do, if this were my kid. It doesn't look good. Edit to add: wonder if they want to see bank records, phone usage, search the house, etc.

[xmas74]

77. Something's up.

They know something, whether it's the parents involved or they think it's a very close family member. Who knows what's going on? No one's talking.

[Logical]

78. Remember, The Ramsey family also refused to talk to the police once...

the police started acting like they were suspects. It ended up the police were wrong and the parents were correct to stop talking to the police.

[cbdo2007]

80. The parents are ALWAYS the number one suspect in these cases, whether

the police go public with their theories or not.

Rightfully so because 9 times out of 10 the parents either did it or know who did. If this ever happens to my kids I'll be the prime suspect too and I'll be doing everything possible from the second I talk to the police to make sure they know I didn't do it. The police are the pros here and they can usually get a pretty good idea whether or not the parents are truly responsible right off the bat.

[tblue37]

83. An innocent man who was recently executed in Texas for killing his young daughters

cooperated fully with the police, who jumped very early to the conclusion that he must have murdered them because he found it too stressful to be a single parent.

The fire that killed them was misinterpreted as arson by bad a investigation, and even though later much more authoritative expert testimony proved it was a natural fire, Texas isn't willing to hold up an execution just because evidence shows the condemned man is innocent.

Cops jump to conclusions early on in an investigation, and often cops are less competent than we would like to think they are. Yes, they are the "pros," but one of the things they are pros at is railroading people in order to close cases because closing cases looks good on their records.

And once they have come up with a theory about a case, even if it is a flimsy one, they tend to stick to it like glue and not even look at other possibilities. What the Italian cops and prosecutor did in the Amanda Knox case seems extreme to us, but a lot of what goes on in the US can be almost as bad in the sense of railroading an innocent person because of a early theory that the investigators fall in love with and won't let go of.

I have also read of many cases where the early part of an investigation is so badly handled that the evidence is made a mess of. That is part of what happened in the Ramsey case. The cops and others tromped all over the crime scene, to the point where they couldn't get much valid evidence from it at all.

The super detective work we see in TV procedurals like the CSI and Law & Order franchises, and other such cop shows, is not what actually goes on most oof the time in real life.

[TwilightGardener]

81. The only reason I can see for it, if they're both completely innocent, is if

they feel that the police are looking too closely at THEM and thus wasting time. Or, maybe they've got some unrelated secrets that they don't want discovered. They should have lawyers by now, at any rate.

[xmas74]

84. The final word this morning was that

they were questioned for eleven hours before the parents chose to end it-for the day. The parents still claim that they are cooperating.

[yardwork]

85. I believe the parents. I think that a stranger kidnapped their baby.

It does happen sometimes.

A woman in North Carolina was killed by a stranger breaking into the house where she was staying to recover from surgery.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/04/16/440735/arrest-made-in-taft-case.html