The scorn heaped on Jobs isn't about Jobs...it's about inconsistent standards.

[Dreamer Tatum]

The guy was a multi-billionaire whose company sold products at inflated prices while using slave labor to produce them.

Those are facts, not in dispute, that usually damn people to hell forever on DU.

But his products are sleek and elegantly-designed, and over the decades lefties have strongly identified themselves with Apple products.

Those are also facts, and deference to the latter set of facts is evidently causing some people to ignore the former set of facts.

Yet the former set of facts are the very things that are supposed to galvanize us, especially now. Giving Jobs a pass because he made pretty toys is galling to many people who prefer a little consistency in their discourse.

How many of the OWSers are carrying iPhones right this minute, while hoisting signs decrying the lack of American jobs? Those phones were all assembled in China, yet they sell at a premium to other phones. That is precisely, EXACTLY what people mean when they refer to corporate greed, yet that mere fact is distilled into "Steve Jobs was a flawed man." Please.

[Odin2005]

1. Nitpick: bourgeois "Latte Liberals" identified themselves with Apple products.

Real Leftists don't give a shit.

[Dreamer Tatum]

2. Your words, not mine. nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

3. No, it is partly about Jobs, actually

he was a deeply unpleasant individual; abrasive, arrogant, with a violent temper. Most people who've worked for him will tell you he was the biggest asshole in Silicon Valley. The stories of him making people cry with his tirades are legion. No-one wanted to be caught in an elevator with him or have him walk over for a little chat. There's an inherent contradiction in people praising a man like that when claiming to support labour and workers; I doubt they'd want to work for him. His anti-union sentiments and attitudes toward charitable giving are also well-documented. He's an extremely unlikely figure for hero worship from DU, to the point of cognitive dissonance.

[Dreamer Tatum]

5. I am seriously beginning to think that people don't want jobs. They just demand cool shit.

That explains the despair around Jobs' death...less cool shit.

[HappyMe]

7. You have won the internets for the day!

:applause:

Where, oh where will the next overpriced doodad come from!

[Odin2005]

9. You win the thread!

[MattBaggins]

14. Talk about hitting the nailon the head

you just summed up the entire fascination with Jobs.

[hfojvt]

8. I doubt if mst people know that

Most of what I have seen is Jobs on a stage giving some quasi-inspiring speech, smiling, and brilliant, and witty, and hawking some new really cool "invention". We sorta imagine that with brilliance comes other qualities like compassion and sensitivity, that he would be a gentleman and a scholar. Others might be willing to give a pass, to a "genius". Such brilliant people are allowed to violate the rules of decency that we lesser mortals are expected to follow. Inventing the IPhone means never having to say you are sorry.

[NYC Liberal]

12. And many people will tell you that his leadership style is what pushed them

to do and be better. Not all, but many.

There is nothing contradictory, and there is no "hero worship."

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. And Roman legionaries would've said the same thing about flogging, crucifixion and decimation

doesn't make it admirable.

[NYC Liberal]

17. Well it is admirable; and no, it's not fucking crucifixion.

:eyes:

[Spider Jerusalem]

19. Screaming tirades that basically consist of "Christ, you worthless shithead!

What the fuck are you thinking? A four-year-old retard could do better than that! Get the fuck out of my sight!" constitute an admirable leadership style? :eyes: right back at you. Protip: a company isn't an army.

[NYC Liberal]

20. Pro-tip: I'm not the one who equated it with one.

:hi:

[Skittles]

21. I agree

I suspect the DUers praising him are among the people who lined up because they HAD to have one of the latest gadgets on day one :thumbsdown:

[seabeyond]

4. galling to many people who prefer a little consistency

point.

[lumberjack_jeff]

6. Apple brand loyalty triggers religious part of brain.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-causes-religious-reaction-in-brains-of-fans-say-neuroscientists/

People have often talked about “the cult of Apple”, and if a recent BBC TV documentary is to be believed, there could be something in it.
...
Riley contacted the editor of World of Apple, Alex Brooks, an Apple worshipper who claims to think about Apple 24 hours a day, which is possibly 23 hours too many for most regular people. A team of neuroscientists studied Brooks’ brain while undergoing an MRI scan, to see how it reacted to images of Apple products and (heaven forbid) non-Apple products.

According to the neuroscientists, the scan revealed that there were marked differences in Brooks’ reactions to the different products. Previously, the scientists had studied the brains of those of religious faith, and they found that, as Riley puts it: “The Apple products are triggering the same bits of brain as religious imagery triggers in a person of faith.”

“This suggests that the big tech brands have harnessed, or exploit, the brain areas that have evolved to process religion,” one of the scientists says. A meeting with the Bishop of Buckingham, who reads the Bible using his Apple iPad, appeared to back up this assertion. He pointed out how the Apple store in, for example, Covent Garden has a lot of religious imagery built into it, with its stone floors, abundance of arches, and little altars (on which the products are displayed). And of course, the documentary doesn’t fail to give Steve Jobs a mention, calling him “the Messiah”.

Cut 'em some slack. Their messiah just died.

[Odin2005]

10. +1,000,000

[ozone_man]

22. Lol!

A cult it is.

[Whisp]

11. there were some here lately screaming that Lady Gaga was a filthy 'elitist'

because she likes Obama and donated to one of his dinners.

I remember too that the Clintons expensive wedding for Chelsea was okay too, because you know, the trickle down to the serving staff and such was really a good thing for them to do!

Lots of inconsistencies, every day. But it is complicated, isn't it? At least to me.

But I'm not as fond of Jobs as most here are. He is a 1 percenter. As the 'boss' he earned how many more times the salary of his lowerst paid employee? Wasn't there a chart on that here a few days ago, about how the disparity in the wage differences between employee and employer has grown so enormously over the last 30 years.

I certainly don't hate Jobs, but I sure the hell am not blind to the fact he is part of the system of unfettered greed at the expense of others. I can't ignore stuff like this:

http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=313

A Real Bite Out of Apple:Child Slave Labor
by Danielle Kurlander
November 2010

Many problems are facing the sweatshop workers and Apple. Not only is Apple supporting this slave labor, suicide rates and deadly chemicals are hurting those working in the factories as well. An audit for the company found that at least eleven 15-year-old children were found to be working in three factories that supply Apple in the last year.It was said: “When Apple investigated further, we uncovered additional records and conducted worker interviews that revealed excessive working hours and seven days of continuous work.” The audit then began to report that at least 55 of factories which produced Apple products were ignoring rules that staff must not work more than 60 hours a week.
The audit also found one facility had attempted to conceal evidence of employing underage labor, while two others had falsified records relating to the number of working hours and days of rest employees were receiving. One of these plants had falsified records for two years in a row in order to conceal that it was using child labor and overworking staff. Based on the repeat core violation and inadequate actions, Apple is terminating all business with this facility.

--
I am not surprised how the media is treating this, but a bit surprised how it is treated here

[barbtries]

13. somehow

i've managed to pretty much not know anything about him other than that he changed the world with his little computer. but with his name popping up right and left today, and after watching Rachel sing his praises this morning, i was beginning to wonder if he was going to lie in state and have a funeral that would be running on every channel (fortunately i don't watch tv so it wouldn't affect me, but i still wondered).

thank you for some perspective. obviously the man was a genius and i'm still going to give him that. apparently he was an asshole too.

[n2doc]

16. We have Standards? We have consistency? First I've heard of it n/t

[pintobean]

18. My solidarity with the Wisconsin protesters ends with my iStuff.