With but one day to go until the TENTH ANNIVERSARY of the invasion of Afghanistan . . . .

[Stinky The Clown]

. . . . is it fair to call for the prosecution of those who started the war and not call for the same for those who endorse and continue it when they have the power to do otherwise?

Yes, that's a harsh question.

[MissDeeds]

1. Good question

I imagine some will try to justify the continuation of the war. It is nonetheless indefensible.

K&R

[Stinky The Clown]

2. Seems to be a topic very few wish to discuss.

Yes, it *is* a fair question.

Maybe someone will step up and defend our country's current position on this issue.

Or not.

[sad sally]

8. The MIC is working on that continuation...

Indeed, in an interview with CBS’ 60 Minutes, Gen. Allen disavowed the 2014 Lisbon Conference date for ending the war, saying “we’re actually going to be here for a long time” and that the troop levels beyond 2014 were yet to be decided.

Allen, who replaced Gen. Petraeus as commander of the Afghan War and became the fourth commander since President Obama took office in 2009, did not offer the usual collection of “foolproof” strategy changes designed to turn the tides in the endless conflict.

“The plan is to win,” was all Allen would offer. This either speaks to a lack of confidence in the latest strategy shift, or perhaps more likely a lack of any strategy whatsoever as the war has a momentum of its own and, with the war planned to extend through 2024, the general likely realizes there will be a dozen or more commanders that will come after him and that what he does won’t matter all that much.

[leftstreet]

3. K&R

Lots of anniversary protests have been in the works. Not sure if they'll merge with OWS, or what

[Stinky The Clown]

4. There is causational reasons to merge them. At least for the day.

Both protests would be about big monied interests looking for ways to suck the life out of our country.

[sad sally]

6. Today is the action day

So let's mark the occasion on Thursday, October 6. Let's have a national, "ecumenical" day of action for peace: to end the wars and cut the military budget.

By "ecumenical", I mean this: everybody will "worship" in their own way. People who are willing to call Congress, will call Congress. People are willing to go to demonstrations, will go to demonstrations. People who get active online will get active online. But everybody who wants peace will do something for peace on October 6. In the comments below, tell us what you are going to do to act for peace on October 6.

Call Congress: right now, the Congressional "Supercommittee" is considering proposals to cut the US government debt by $1.2tn over ten years. One obvious choice: end the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and cut the military budget. Poll data shows that when you ask people "if the supercommittee cuts the budget, where should they cut?" military spending walks to victory. But the military contractors and war profiteers, who have grown fat from ten years of war spending, are pressing Congress not to cut the military budget and to cut your Medicare benefits instead.

If you do nothing else for peace on October 6, call at least one of your representatives in Congress - particularly if they are on the Supercommittee - and tell them to end the wars and cut the military budget. The Congressional switchboard is 202-225-3121.

[lunatica]

5. They're separate issues I think, but maybe both should be prosecuted

It's incredibly complex because there are so many obfuscated layers to the politics of this war (or maybe all wars). Bush and Cheney had a goal in mind and they used the infrastructure their party and their corporate friends had carefully built over the years to manipulate and deliberately lie to get the US to go to war. The media was bought and paid for and it really paid off for them. Without the media being complicit it's possible there would be no wars with Afghanistan and Iraq. But it's hard and maybe useless to conjecture on what would have been. So I won't.

But after being at war for years the new President is forced to face the effects and fallout from that war. Perhaps more enemies have been created than those that have been killed. I think that when we see actions that don't seem to have a very good explanation and don't make sense with the knowledge we have, such as drones being used to cross borders and target groups and individuals, then we're not seeing the entire picture. We are being lied to still and it seems we're being kept in the dark, but the reasons may be very different. Ending a war is much harder to starting one.

I'm pretty sure that Obama was kept in the dark too until he was actually elected. So there's a mysterious reason why he talked about ending the wars before he was elected and yet immediately changed his mind when he won the election.

Much can be garnered from things we don't know. Like Rumsfeld is fond of saying, there are unknowns we know we don't know. I think the lack of logic and information surrounding the wars is a huge clue that there's much more to the wars then we're being told.

No matter whoever is guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity, I wish that there would at least be a transparent and sincere investigation of the entire issue.

[PETRUS]

7. Good luck. K&R (anyway) nt

[sad sally]

9. Fair - yes. The morale thing to do - yes. Will it ever happen - not a chance.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. That's exactly right.

On all scores. The right thing to do, if one chooses to do the former. No one will do either.

Instead we play silly games of silly politics, cheering our heroes and hissing our villains.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. Sad that no one wishes to discuss this.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. I'd really love to see comments about this.

[sad sally]

13. If the President knows that crimes were committed in both Operation Enduring Freedom

(damn I hate the idea that a war would have the words "enduring freedom" in its name) and Operation New Dawn (ask the Iraqi people how that "new dawn" is working out) under international law, he and his administration are obligated to prosecute the war criminals - they shouldn't have a choice not to.

Both George Bush and Dick Cheney should be prosecuted for illegally starting a war in Iraq, for authorizing torture, which is banned by both international treaties to which the US is a signatory, and by US law, which folded the torture bans into the the US Criminal Code, and for holding prisoners indefinitely without charges.

By not only ignoring these criminal acts, President Obama, Vice President Biden and the attorney general, who all have sworn obligations to prosecute these crimes, then they too become criminals. That's what it means to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution," which they swore on oaths to uphold.

The Constitution requires President Obama to faithfully execute the laws, including prosecuting lawbreakers even if they are former Presidents and Vice Presidents. When the US ratified the Geneva Conventions and the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, making them part of US law, we agreed to prosecute those who violate their prohibitions.

People tend to forget that Bush was adamant on the prosecution of war crimes in other countries. In 2003, he insisted, "War crimes will be prosecuted, war criminals will be punished, and it will be no defense to say, 'I was just following orders.' " On June 26, 2003, conservatives applauded as Bush told the United Nations that the United States "is committed to the worldwide elimination of torture, and we are leading this fight by example."

President Obama, Vice President Biden and Attorney General Holder are not only accessories to the crime by remaining silent in 2009 when they took office, they have continued and even escalated the crimes with drone wars. Hypocrisy and immoral actions only make the US weak and its leaders war criminals

[Stinky The Clown]

14. Thank you.

I appreciate that someone else wanted to say something about this. People seem to be afraid to suggest that someone they support and admire could, possibly, have committed crimes. The thing is, if one wishes to excuse these crimes by someone they support and admire (I can actually understand that position and have no problem if someone honestly holds it) they need to excuse it when the other guys do it.

I don't recall anyone here defending Cheney and his liddle sidekick, george.

[sad sally]

15. If the US doesn't adhere to the rule of law (both national and international)

how can we expect other nations to? Our actions and inactions have consequences, and it shouldn't be a surprise if someday we are subjected to the same things we have inflicted on others.

(thanks for starting the post - let me blow off some much needed steam...)

[bigtree]

16. sure, call for it

I wouldn't expect many more than the same amount of folks supporting the action or participating who are already protesting these wars in one form or the other. The potential of the 60% or so who say they oppose continuing in Afghanistan is some galvanizing incident over there which has the prospect of sparking the anti-war sentiment that's certainly festering out there.

Problem is, most of that sentiment is wrapped around the lingering anxieties about 'another attack' and the consequences they imagine in pulling back from the muddled engagement. In other words, I think most Americans are as ambivalent about shutting down all that terra war nonsense as the President is, so it's a long shot organizing that conflicted opposition into a widespread out-of-Afghanistan movement.

[MissDeeds]

17. I heard on the news this morning

(NPR?) that most people are not paying attention to the wars but are focused instead on jobs and the economy. The M$M hardly gives them any coverage, unless we kill 'the number two guy' - again, or if there is an event that results in mass causalities.

It would be interesting to see what the justification for war is at this point. To win? Win what? How will the US know if it is 'won'? We can never eradicate an ideology, and our enemies do not have a zip code.

It's disheartening (appalling, really) to see how the country accepts war without end and does not call for accountability - from the previous administration or the current one.