When cats are feral for a long time, years, do they change over the generations?

[raccoon]

I mean, like start to change into a subspecies?

[Kolesar]

1. Black domestic shorthairs turn into grey tabbies after several generations

Don't worry, they don't put on a hundred pounds and grow sharp tusks.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Do you mean, do they undomesticate??

[raccoon]

3. Well, yeah, that too. nt

[Xithras]

4. Generally no.

Unless they're under massive selective pressure, divergence into a subspecies would require both genetic isolation (no new breeding members), and at least a couple of centuries. Even then, divergence would require that the breeding group be exposed to some sort of pressures or reproductive influences that the primary species is not exposed to. Evolution doesn't just happen, but occurs as an adaptation to an outside influence.

[lapislzi]

5. Interesting question.

I'm no geneticist, but I know a little about cats.

Cats reproduce fast, so natural selection will do its work quickly over the course of a few generations, probably selecting for traits like aggressiveness and hunting behavior. Recessives will often breed out, producing a physical type best adapted to conditions.

Cats in urban settings often reside in colonies, so traits of sociability might have the edge, whereas cats in a wild setting might be better adapted to solitude, like most traditional wild species.

Interestingly, most cats who are not socialized to humans rarely vocalize, except for aggression and mating.

To develop a true "sub-species" might take longer than a few generations. Consider how long it's taken to engineer distinct breeds.

[Kurmudgeon]

7. My cat buds must be socialized, they vocalize at me all the time!

However, when the 1st frost hits and the outdoor mice start trying to come in through the holes where the plumbing is, I know my Feline Protection Gang will be there waiting!
I despise having things chewed up and the smell of mouse urine, so I urge my crew to dispatch the vermin with all due speed!
Not like they need any encouragement though... ;)

[lapislzi]

13. My old guy is about ready for his Autumn Walkabout

He sows his wild oats in the hills for 3 or 4 days and then settles in for winter. I worry about coyote strikes, though. I hear them on the ridge at night, and there have been strikes nearby where domestic cats were taken.

My little girl can kill anything as large as, or larger than herself. I think she would even attack a bear if she saw one.

And Puddle Cat can still bring down a chipmunk or two. I'm surprised the vermin haven't learned yet that my property is the Bermuda Triangle of rodents.

[TheMadMonk]

6. Given long enough almost certainly. Even over the short term...

...(just a few generations) feral cats in Aust. started to differentiate, some becoming wiry and small, others grow into the 10+ kg range and are capable of taking down a wallaby or small kangaroo.

But for full speciation, there'd also have to be a considerable period of isolation from domestic cats.

[MADem]

8. A ten plus kilo cat? Like a Maine Coon cat!

Those are big cats!

[angstlessk]

17. My catpanion is a Maine Coon...the most laid back kitty!

He loves the barrel chair which I cover with my robe...to make his bed a tent....of course he prefers the softest blanket in the house..a gift from a friend....to sleep upon...In the morning I have to kick him out to go to work!

[MADem]

23. How huge is he? Twenty pounds or more? nt

[angstlessk]

24. I think he is smaller about 15 lbs..might be a mix...I did not purchase him...

he came to us from a person who found him...not sure of his origin...just read about what a Maine Coon is like because I never had a cat like him..and I am a cat person...his hairy ears, and feet as well as his large size led me to believe his is a Maine Coon

[MADem]

27. I used to have some great cats. These days, we've in a dog phase. NT

[SoCalDem]

19. Life expectancy is quite short for true ferals, so Mom-cats

may not have many litters. If they do not range very far, inbreeding can definitely "concentrate" traits, but can also impart diseases and defects.,

Feral cats lead a miserable, short life:cry:

[malaise]

22. You're so right

One of those we feed brought five kittens on our patio during a rain storm. Eventually they left and only two survived. A car hit one of the big ginger ones.

[nomb]

9. There was a BBC Docu on cats, one show was on the arctic cats left behind by whalers 175 years ago

Fascinating stuff.

[raccoon]

10. Can you remember the name of it? I've been googling but can't find it. nt

[nomb]

12. I think this is it.

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4412682/BBC_CATS_DVDrip_1991_


I don't yet know for sure.

[nomb]

14. Here's a photo of an Antarctic cat, but the ones I was referring to are in a diff. location

[FSogol]

11. All of the ferals I run into have been fixed (and have the notched ear to prove it).

So, no natural selection at work with them. Hugs and kisses to the vets and people who are fixing them.

[shanti]

25. is that what the vets do

notch the ears after they are altered? i did not know that.

[kestrel91316]

15. A life out in the wild as opposed to protected by humans WILL select for certain

characteristics which will then allow for more successful reproduction of those with the trait. While not as rapid as in the feral pig, it is pretty rapid in cats, especially when it pertains to color (where there are predators like coyotes) and coat length. Long fur is not a successful mutation, and leads to too many problems when humans don't get involved, so longhaired cats don't perpetuate in the wild. Also, whie cats are rapidly selected against where predators abound.

[MineralMan]

16. Not in human time. Over many thousands of years, maybe,

but not in time periods we'd recognize.

Cats are domestic because we make them that way, one at a time. Their nature is that if they live with humans, they adapt to the behaviors humans expect. Humans are their food source. This only really works if you get the cat when it's young, as in between 6-16 weeks of age. The things we do with kittens accustoms them to the things we will do to them as adult cats. Their reward is food and a warm lap and house to live in.

It's very, very difficult to fully domesticate a cat that has lived apart from humans for more than three or four months after being weaned. That early kitten period is critical. Without human handling, few feral cats more than four months old will every behave like a normal domestic cat.

So, the answer is that cats are already wild. We tame them when they are babies and socialized them to behave as we expect them to behave. They're very adaptable when they're kittens. That adaptability simply disappears at a certain age and if not socialized to humans, they behave as wild cats. There are some exceptions, but not many. I have managed, once, to turn a 4 month old feral kitten into an acceptable house cat, but only once, and that cat was still prone to kick your butt if you did something unexpected to it. All other efforts have been failures. I've gotten some other feral cats to be tame enough to come for food and maybe to be touched in some circumstances, but that's it.

[Contrary1]

18. My main feral, Scarlet...

has been showing up at my back door for about 12 years now. I did manage to trap and spay her, but even after all these years, she shows no willingness to come close. She does "meow" now when she is hungry, which is something she did not do for the first few years.

So, in Scarlet's case, the answer is no. Other ferals showing up at my back door have tamed down a bit.

[Marnie]

20. They don't change into a subspecies.

They were and are tame or wild the same genus. But native wild cats are different species in different areas of the world.

Domestic breeds that go feral and reproduce will revert to the wild type within a few generations. That is the dominant genetic characteristics of the local wild type will mask and eventually eliminate the characteristics of the hybrid domestic cat.

Exactly what that means in the US, as there is no native wild type, is going to depend on the genetic pool that is breeding in any geographic area.

For example the Maine coon developed from an essentially feral population of imported European domestic cats and specialized due to the very cold North Eastern winters. It is a unique breed but not a subspecies.

[ErikJ]

21. YES! Here's proof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0f-eJ8vR64&feature=related

[NickB79]

26. If isolated, like on an island, perhaps. In the real world, no

For the simple fact that the majority of feral cat colonies are not self-sustaining, but rather constantly being infused with new cats from people's homes. Breeding with these new individuals to the colonies act to dilute and unique traits that may arise otherwise. In much of the country, feral cats have a very short lifespan due to disease, weather, starvation and predators.