There is a central message behind the occupation. The critical meme that

[Zorra]

there is not a central message is ridiculous and is a PTB propaganda device generated and promoted in order to denigrate and erode the solidarity of the movement. We've just witnessed the unreasonable blatant blackout of the coverage of the movement by the MSM. This media blackout was by design; I think most of us agree that this is a fact.

Please, don't buy into, or spread, the meme.

"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power."
-Franklin D. Roosevelt

The essential initial message for promoting the spread of national and worldwide non-violent democratic revolution is directly stated by the NYC General Assembly:

"To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone."

Isn't this obviously all about establishing an egalitarian, citizen controlled process, that will ultimately, through whatever means necessary, strip all power from the dictatorial wealthy private interests that have usurped our democratic state, and that have taken control of our government, as well as many of the governments of other nations throughout the world, by means of buying power and control with their wealth?

The Declaration of the NYC General Assembly outlines a myriad of problems. All of these problems can be traced to the source from which they originated: Control of our government by wealthy private interests, wealthy private interests that usurped our democracy by buying political influence and then using this influence to legislate the demise of our democracy so that they could control our government for their own purposes and benefit.

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City
Posted on September 30, 2011 by NYCGA
This document was accepted by the NYC General Assembly on september 29, 2011
Translations: French, Slovak, Spanish, German, Italian

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-of-new-york-city/

[loyalsister]

1. It's actually not obvious

"Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone."
It has very little meaning.

"create a process".... New government structure? System for airing grievances?

"generate solutions accessible to everyone." Get together around a bon fire and talk about what should be done?
Hold committee meetings with stakeholders and people in power to discuss possible legislative\policy measures?

Without more definition, I still have no idea what the goals are. I have participated in advocacy and protests often. We have always had legislative goals to get behind.

[EFerrari]

2. Generating legisltive goals at this point would only deliver people

right back into the pocket of the corrupt system that brought us here.

[loyalsister]

11. So, what is an alternate solution?

I mean one that is realistic and doesn't trash the lives of people who rely on the current system for basic needs and services?

[EFerrari]

25. I think the point here is that basic needs and services are already not being met.

People don't begin a process like this because their lives are comfortable.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. They're fighting to get rid of the corrupt politics-as-usual system that you're proposing they use.

:crazy:

[loyalsister]

4. So, how is that to be accomplished

and what would replace it?

[Ship of Fools]

5. Amendment -- get money out of politics. Ratigan's meme ...

It seems to me that is where it all starts. Just an opinion ...

[loyalsister]

9. That makes more sense than anything else I have heard

Has anyone explored a way to do that after citizens united? I would think it could be possible, but I'd like to know how.

[Ship of Fools]

40. Go to getmoneyout.com and sign!!! It's a Ratigan thing.

[CrispyQ]

42. Revoke corporate personhood.

We need to take our government back from the corporations. Money equals free speech? :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Give corporations some rights, but not equal rights. Some resources:

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/

http://movetoamend.org/

http://movetoamend.org/model-resolution

http://citizenworks.org/

http://www.citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=183

[Cats Against Frist]

17. Two Constitutional Amendments

One ending corporate personhood and one prohibiting corporations from campaign funding.

[loyalsister]

23. You do realize the 2\3 state approval process?

One way to do that would be to get it on ballots in all 50 states.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Who knows? What replaced the rule of George III?

The revolutionaries who signed the Declaration of Independence had a laundry list of grievances and only the vaguest of ideas about what was to replace the rule of the monarchy. They had no defined "goals" at the time except to break with the government in power.

The same goes with most revolutions. At best, the "what now?" question isn't answered until after the revolution. But, using the same system one is opposing and trying to unseat isn't going to work.

[loyalsister]

8. You mean democracy had never been discussed?

Or even tried?
Or autonomy from a ruling government miles away was not practical?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. I'm pretty sure that the demonstrators are "discussing" similar things.

I'm also pretty sure that some of them, at least, like the founders, have come to the conclusion that buying into the corrupt system is fruitless. Democracy (of sorts) has been tried in many places but it has usually devolved into the rule of few over the many...as it is here.

You mentioned "legislative goals" which infers, if not advocates, use of the the system that they're trying to overthrow. Tantamount to the founders putting in a monarchy to replace the one they had rid themselves of. Which, was advocated by a few of them.

[loyalsister]

18. Okay so if democracy doesn't work and

the goal is to overthrow the entire government and\or financial services industry....
If the current systems were to go away, how would people access the goods and services they need while waiting for someone to decide what to replace it with?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. My crystal ball being inoperative, I will venture...

About the same way that they did after the first revolution. Trial and error ruled the day then and would likely do the same now. The Articles of Confederation weren't done away with because they were working so well.

Do we really have a "democracy" in place now? Have we ever?

[loyalsister]

26. And yet

There are people who live life they are basically satisfied with. They have jobs, send their kids to school and have dinner out once or twice a month. There are people who are satisfied with that. There are people who lives they are satisfied with IN poverty. There are people in this country like me and many of my friends who are satisfied with having a place to live, food, and basic necessities.
The people claiming to represent 99% are people who have the privilege of being able to put their health at risk, or keeping the job that feeds their kids in order to make their statement. Not everyone is in a position to slide by on anything goes if the current system is significantly damaged or destroyed.
Is that part of the 99% being asked to sacrifice lives that work (not in an ideal way, but still operate with basic needs met) to indulge this "revolution?"

I think we do have a representative democracy that is not perfect, but does function. There are ways to make it work better without overthrowing it. Those of us who have been involved with legislative advocacy and put ourselves in positions up some influence have been a part of some changes that have mattered.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. The same arguments were made in 1776, 1789, and 1917.

Clinging to the status quo and accepting it's many faults is what is probably going to kill this revolution...for now. I think you need not worry, for now, that the protestors on Wall Street are going to take you out of your comfort zone. Rather, you should worry that our "not perfect" democracy(?) is far more likely to to cause you or your children to suffer the consequences you now dread.

[loyalsister]

29. Seriously

My comfort zone is one the people at the protests fear. They don't realize that they could easily find themselves there. A patch of ice, bad driver, serious bump on the head and the things that are currently inconvenience in the midst of this protest, could be life threatening.

[Zorra]

12. OK.

I'm sorry that one of the points of my post was not clear to you.

Maybe try to think of it as something like this: What we have is a recognition that the legislative process is irrevocably broken, and many people are suffering directly because the legislative process is broken and has been compromised, and therefore, the legislative process cannot be repaired by using the legislative process.

We are trying to unite to make enough people aware of this problem and the myriad of other problems that have arisen from the corruption inherent in the legislative process, so that we can form a consensus on how to solve our problem from outside of the legislative process.

I would say that the (unstated, but obvious) primary legislative goal would be to make it possible for the majority of people to once again individually and collectively legislate in their interests by electing representatives that are not financed by wealthy private interests without the corruption of wealthy private interests in the legislative process. Due to the fact that these wealthy private interests have majority control of most legislation and legislators, we cannot effectively legislate to remove the power and control of wealthy private interests from our government.

At this time, there is no possible workable option of solving the problem through the legislative process.

If you do not believe, or at least suspect, that the undemocratic co-opting of our legislative process is a major problem that basically neutralizes the egalitarian interests of the majority of people in the US, then there is nothing I can do to ever clarify the basic message of the occupation for you.

"Isn't this obviously all about establishing an egalitarian, citizen controlled process, that will ultimately, through whatever means necessary, strip all power from the dictatorial wealthy private interests that have usurped our democratic state, and that have taken control of our government, as well as many of the governments of other nations throughout the world, by means of buying power and control with their wealth?"

We apparently can no longer solve our problems through the established system.

These folks had a similar problem, and they tried each and every avenue to solve their problems through the legislative process of the established system that existed at the time. It proved impossible to solve their problems through reason and legislation.

Ultimately, they had to solve their problems by thinking and operating "outside of the box".

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

etc

[loyalsister]

22. And those of us for whom it has worked?

Why should people who have gotten legislation passed decide this is a better method? For example people with disabilities who got services restored, a peace treaty signed, the ADA passed switch to a more random method?
Why should women whose predecessors marched for and got a constitutional amendment passed that allows women the right to vote?
Why should people who have been a part of those accomplishments suddenly decide it's fruitless?

What is the similarity between an ongoing foreign government rule and the government that has been voted in by a majority IN this country?

You may halfway have a states rights argument, but this analogy does not work.

[Zorra]

24. Whatever floats your boat, hon. Don't join the movement.

Good luck.

peace

[KamaAina]

6. I asked my boss, a veteran lefty, to deconstruct that meme

Her response: "The message is, tax the rich!"

[loyalsister]

10. There ya go

Get behind a policy or bill.

[Zorra]

14. We tried that exact thing.

We were unsuccessful because our legislative process has been co-opted by wealthy private interests.

They decided, decreed, or whatever, that their taxes would not be raised.

[loyalsister]

15. I have not heard anyone from OWS calling for support of a specific policy or bill

When and where was this?

[Zorra]

19. I did not mean that OWS called for legislation. The "WE" that I

was referring to was "We The People".

A large majority of Americans were in favor of extending the Bush Tax Cuts on the wealthy, I believe you probably already know this.

Democratic revolutions usually come about because of lack of genuine representation in government, and thew inability to achieve representative government through established political channels.

edited for a snarky comment that I apologize for.

[Zorra]

16. "...61 percent of people would rather raise taxes on the rich

to balance the budget than cut defense, Social Security or Medicare."

An April 18 McClatchy-Marist poll found that voters support higher taxes on the rich to reduce the deficit by a 2-to-1 margin, including 45 percent of self-identified Tea Party members.

An April 18 Gallup poll found that 67 percent of people do not believe that corporations pay their fair share of taxes, and 59 percent believe that the rich do not pay their fair share.

On April 1, Tulchin Research released a poll showing that voters in California overwhelmingly support higher taxes on the rich to deal with the state’s budgetary problems.

http://capitalgainsandgames.com/blog/bruce-bartlett/2292/americans-support-higher-taxes-really

Etc.

[loyalsister]

27. 61% of people who answered polls, that is

There are many more people who are not invested enough or too busy to care.
They also were not polled on whether they would be willing to have their personal lives significantly disrupted in order to make it happen.

[Zorra]

30. So, do you not believe that the majority of Americans would prefer to tax

the rich rather than cut Social Security or Medicare?

[loyalsister]

31. That does not translate into support for this movement

It is not evidence that they want to see the kind of drastic changes I am hearing from people who are a part of OWS.

[Zorra]

32. I'm sorry, but, to be frank,

it is virtually impossible for me to communicate effectively with anyone that is deliberately obtuse and/or evasive.

I wish you well, and in all honesty am glad that you are, apparently, so satisfied with how everything is going in our country right now.

peace

[Remember Me]

34. You've been very patient and indulgent

People should note that this is one tactic that the opposition uses. I'm sure loyalsister isn't a plant or anything like that, but she is "engaged" at a level or in ways that purposeful forum disrupters might effectively employ. Look how hijacked the thread has been. If she were a doing this consciously, as part of a plan, I wouldn't consider it a particular effective campaign, but it did keep people -- especially you -- distracted.

One of the reasons the right is calling for specific "agenda" items from #OWS is so they can play this sort of game -- and again, I'm not accusing the poster of consciously playing a game, but if people step away and read the thread with a bit of objectivity, it will become clear. Anyway, agenda items would result in our critics being able to pick each one apart, refuting, distracting endlessly, etc. There is no rush for an agenda -- let's let that happen organically.

The Republicans in Congress play this game very well too. They demand "specifics" from the Democrats or the President, and then when they get them, they use them as more fodder, more material to blow the whole thing up, whatever "it" is. With the Republicans, it's VERY conscious and purposeful tactic.

[Zorra]

38. Good points.

The RW has had to master the art of deception, because they have no substance and no truth.

[Fire Walk With Me]

21. K&R!

[Zorra]

33. kick

[Honeycombe8]

35. Great post. Thank you! nt

[PETRUS]

36. K&R nt

[TK421]

37. Good post, however...THEY-DON'T-CARE

and, bad news for us, they are in control...the establishment that was protested against for many years...America has NEVER woken the fuck up! Likely won't in the near future! You paint a pretty picture, but most of this country has grown apathetic to this system that is supposed to work FOR THEM but hasn't. Partly the reason for poor voter turnout...people don't trust their to-be elected officials anymore. They all talk bullshit and expect the public to buy it, and they do.

Why is it that I saw and recognized this bullshit in the fourth grade, and yet grown adults, who have the right to "vote" didn't, and in turn,were given the ability to shape and determine what my fucking world was going to be like because of their stupidity or ignorance? I don't give a fuck what anyone has to say to my next comment, but this country is really fucking stupid....stupid, ignorant, fearful, uneducated, I could go on and on and on...but I fucking won't, because I feel it wouldn't even be worth it.

[kimsarah]

39. Meanwhile,

Kay Hagan and John McCain introduced legislation (while O'drama was busy with the WH press corps) introducing the corporate tax giveaway holiday legislation Thursday.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/06/bipartisan-proposal-for-tax-holiday-introduced-in-senate/

[w0nderer]

41. k&r for reading later n/t