To the Steve Jobs bashers here...

[begin_within]

Pixar and Disney-Pixar (Jobs was the single largest individual stockholder in Disney)
have won 205 awards for their films, including two Academy Awards for Best Animated
Feature Film, for both The Incredibles and WALL-E.

I am typing this on a 7-year-old eMac which has run every single day since I bought it,
that's 2,555 consecutive days without a system crash. Not even once.

Jobs donated to the campaigns of Ted Kennedy, Bill Bradley and Nancy Pelosi:
$209,000 to Democratic candidates and only $1,000 to a Republican candidate.

In other words,

[hlthe2b]

1. Nice....

:thumbsup:

[Sal Minella]

6. Luvvit. Well done! n/t

[uppityperson]

2. I'd also like to know if they are using personal computers, mice, any window sort thing

[Kahuna]

29. Exacrly. Don't like the guy, don't use any of his inventions.

See how far that will get you.

[GOTV]

35. I think mice and graphical user interfaces were invented at Xerox

I don't have anything against the guy but personal computers, mice, MP3 players tablet computers all existed before he made one.

[uppityperson]

37. He made them common household items. Dont like the guy personally, but he did do a lot

[GOTV]

41. Yes, he was a slick marketer and had an eye for design...

... and he put more consideration into the user experience than most did.

[Bandit]

43. Bull

Ipods came before MP3 players and I know of NO personal computer on the market that had mice and used a windows format before Apple.. While it may be possible that some similar format was being used in private by Xerox, it was Apple that revolutionized the personal home computer industry...

[GOTV]

45. Arrogant and misinformed. And it's so easy to look up too

This article contains a list of MP3 players several of which predate the iPod

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_audio_player

> I know of NO personal computer on the market that had
> mice and used a windows format before Apple

Of course I didn't say there was one. I said there were personal computers before the apple.

And it's still true that the mouse and GUI were not invented by apple.

[cogswell]

58. I used to have a Diamond Rio

It kept working and I kept using it until the company went out of business and no drivers for the latest version of Windows was available any more.
I had an iPod once and hated it. Ridiculously restrictive, had to convert mp3 to some other format to play. It seemed the only purpose of it was to drive business into their goddam apple website. Terrible.

[northoftheborder]

3. I really like the first digital image.

[Rhiannon12866]

4. WALL-E!!!

:loveya:

And incredibly cool graphic! K&R! :applause:

[Honeycombe8]

15. I LOVED that movie! Did Pixar do that? nt

[Rhiannon12866]

33. Yes... And I thought he was adorable.

I also loved Ratatouille. :loveya:

[Evasporque]

34. EEEEVAAAHHHH!

[Rhiannon12866]

57. Awwwwwww!

:cry:

[pintobean]

5. IBTB

Edit - I didn't want to kick this pos with a new post.
Bite this


Disney stock.

[Hutzpa]

40. You hate much? n/t

[pintobean]

48. Not at all.

The 'bite me' in the OP is what I replied to. It's reciprocal.

[unkachuck]

7. "Jobs...

...donated to the campaigns of Ted Kennedy, Bill Bradley and Nancy Pelosi:
$209,000 to Democratic candidates and only $1,000 to a Republican candidate."

....other than that, he's just another slimy capitalist who bought the farm....nothing to get excited about....

....casy anthony, amada cox, micheal jackson, sarah palin, octo-mom, now dead Jobs....endless fodder for the worthless corporate media....

[Ellipsis]

60. ...with young children and died early. Get bent.

How many kid did Gates have.

Get off this maniacal bent would you.

[kstewart33]

8. Don't understand why anyone would bash Steve Jobs.

Makes no sense at all.

[begin_within]

9. There are threads around.

[AngkorWot]

13. He was as cutthroat a business man as any on Wallstreet.

He was a 1-percenter

He was in the top 1-percent of the top 1-percent.

[kstewart33]

23. Oh, so he's awful because he is super rich.

Kinda like Buffett, right?

I refer you to his contributions - how he changed the world - not how wealthy he was.

[Atman]

27. He got super-rich the old fashion way...

...the way the Republican super-rich claim they got super rich, while living off daddy's inheritance. Jobs started in a fucking garage with $1200 in borrowed money. No silver spoon, no tax-free estate, no trust fund...he was truly a visionary, not a greedy trust fund baby who doesn't want to give up a penny of the bankroll which fell in his lap by accident of birth.

[AngkorWot]

36. I'm fine with the rich. Just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Steve Job's contribution to the world was to sell overpriced computers made in Chinese sweatshops. He never actually invented anything, he just bought, arguably stole, other people's inventions.

Take the OP's pics, for example. Hundreds, possibly thousands of hard working, highly skilled and talented artists worked on those films.

They're beautiful films.

Steve Jobs never had anything to do with any of it. He just owned some stock in it.

[Honeycombe8]

14. Do you know anything about him, on a personal (not business) level?

There have been documentaries done on him. I saw one. I think it gave a pretty balanced view. He was not a nice man. But he was a genius who changed the world.

No one is perfect.

[kstewart33]

22. Agreed. I'm not judging his character.

The man changed how we live - how we enjoy music, how we communicate and certainly how we work. And he spearheaded Pixar and was responsible for some of the best animated films ever produced.

[HuckleB]

10. My iMac lasted 10 1/2 years before I replaced it with a MacBook.

It doesn't get cheaper than that.

[devilgrrl]

11. The haters act as if he's Hugo Chavez.

:popcorn:

[Honeycombe8]

12. I haven't seen any bashing posts. But this may be one....

He was not a nice man. Read that "mean." Not to take away from his genius. I guess a lot of geniuses are that way. But he was an innovator and business man. Not necessarily an icon, character-wise. He had a child out of wedlock & didn't provide for her, I believe. Even though he was a billionaire, and to provide a modicum of support would've meant nothing to him financially. She got to know him after she was grown, though.

But he was supposedly pretty mean (like yelling, insulting mean, in front of others) to those who worked for, and with, him.

But he WAS a genius. And he changed the world. There are no blacks and whites in the universe. Everything is a shade of gray.

[kstewart33]

25. Well said.

He changed how we live, and IMHO, much for the better.

That's how he will be seen by history.

[Historic NY]

16. I think the bashers were the idiots that bought Gateway's

:argh:

[Stinky The Clown]

17. I am very happy to K&R your post

[lynne]

18. I'll happily K&R as I, too, am sick of the bashers -

- Hypocrites, all. If the Will of Steve Jobs included any one of them to get his entire estate, do you think they'd refuse it because they don't want to become one of those horrid 1%er's?

I don't even need to venture a guess on that answer, do I???

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dennis Donovan]

21. Speaking of "dicks"

...:eyes:

[kstewart33]

24. The man is dead, Joe.

And so is his dick.

You don't know Jack about whether Jobs put people out of work. And countless companies? Don't think so.

[tawadi]

20. Great minds discuss ideas...

:toast:

[pintobean]

26. Jobs couldn't have built or shipped any of his products

without the use of petroleum based products. Petroleum betters the lives of a hell of a lot more people than electronic gadgets and films do. Where's the love for the oil company CEOs?

[Taitertots]

28. Steve Jobs didn't make shit, he just took the productive gains of the brilliant people who did...

So the real question is why do you support someone who took money out of the pockets of the people who invented/created the things you enjoy?

[bighart]

30. Because of the "cool" factor of those things.

[Mudoria]

32. True

I'm astounded at the number of people crowing about his inventions. He didn't invent anything. He was a brillant front man who pushed and prodded the real inventors and ideas people and then using his business acumen to make bucks off them. He was an unpleasant individual with the drive and brillance to succeed in the business world.

[truedelphi]

52. You apparently have forgotten that he and Wozniak

invented the Apple.

Invented means that there were inventions.

Maybe many of the things that came later were the brain childs of his
employees, but those first computers came from him and the other Steve, with the help of just a few other people.

One of my closest friends was asked to help them out, back when they were a two person show. And his reply was that he couldn't work with others and he wished them well, but he needed to work alone. (And sometimes he regretted his decision.)

If other people helped them out, that was just how things were done back then. Computers (personal computers, anyway) were such a novelty, and sometimes it must have seemed like everyone who had one was helping out other people getting it right. (When you buy a novelty item, how is it repaired? If you have the first automobile - who fixes it for you when it won't work?)

[readmoreoften]

59. +100000000000000000000. Steve Jobs made WALL-E?

It's amazing that people have created such hagiography around this guy. He didn't make ANY of this shit. Workers did. Sure he had a few ideas and some input. So what? I'm sorry he died but I think it's ideologically insane to attribute WALL-E to Steve Jobs. Your iPhone was made by everyone from the market testers to the engineers to the little girls committing suicide at Foxconn. Steve Jobs isn't really that big a part of the process. And that's why you'll still have your iPhone without him.

[Paladin]

31. To The Steve Jobs Worshipers Here.......

....get a little much-needed perspective and give the deification thing a rest....

[uppityperson]

38. appreciation = "worship"? Dichotomous thinking will only get you so far

[moodforaday]

55. If pointing out flaws is "bashing", then

yes, appreciation is worship. What goes around comes around.

Especially when those doing the appreciating are willfully blind to the flip side - like sweatshops, like assembly line workers committing suicides, like outsourcing, like fascist policies at the iTunes store. Anyone remember how they banned the Mark Fiore cartoon app because it was "political", until he won Pulitzer and Apple woke up with egg all over face? That's Steve Jobs too, you know. Not someone I would ever buy anything from.

[uppityperson]

56. Yet I bet you are typing on a personal computer for which you can thank him.

[moodforaday]

62. Um, no,

not for my computer :)

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kentauros]

44. I'd like to point out something that should be obvious,

but all too often isn't in the "War of the Tools":

The tool doesn't make the talent.

Pixar could just as well have started out on Cray supercomputers instead of Macs. Would anyone have cared? Not likely. As a company, they produce high-quality movies because they have a very talented pool of artists. A talented chef can do wonders with the cheapest of tools while a beginning cook buys the most expensive ceramic knife and still can't julienne carrots to 2mm square.

I don't care if you are a Mac person, a PC owner, use Windows, OSX or Ubuntu. All that really matters is what you can produce with your particular talent.

[Hutzpa]

47. Case close. n/t

[Major Hogwash]

46. Nice thread.

And he was the father of 4 children.

[JackDragna]

49. For those of us who realize Jobs as the job-exporting, walled-garden creating..

..man he truly was, bite us. :)

[white_wolf]

50. Like I said before his negatives outweigh his positives.

I'm sorry for his family's loss, but that doesn't change the facts and those facts are: He used slave labor in China to build his products, he was anti-teacher, anti-worker, his company is notorious for not giving money to charity.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

51. Yes he was. .

He could have employed thousands of americans to build his products, and made a little less money.

Instead, he employed sweatshops in China where people jumped out the window and committed suicide because they couldn't take the conditions there.

His solution? Hang nets out the windows to catch the jumpers, and make the workers sign a contract promising they won't commit suicide.

In other words, to do NOTHING about the horrendous working conditions and keep exploiting them. That's not patriotic if you're an American.

He might have died with $5 billion instead of $7 billion, if he had supported American workers, but he didn't.

And he screamed and yelled at his employees, which is inexcusable. It's accepted in this country that we promote narcissists and psychopaths who yell at people, but it kills and stresses workers. See the TV shows of cut throat competition -- like Donald Trump and Gordon Ramsey. Some people think a crazy boss screaming his head off is good TV, but I don't. It's all about humiliation.

He also screwed over Steve Wozniak, many years ago. It's in the article about "9 things you never knew about Steve Jobs".
He got several thousand dollars for a job and only gave Steve Wozniak $375.00 and Wozniak never knew he got screwed.

That shows me a despicable, greedy human being. Seven billion dollars does not a saint make.

[Puglover]

53. I have a PC,Ipad,Ipod,Iphone.

I like them all. He was a smart guy.He was most certainly human. However if people say bad things about him, or Bill Gates or (insert any rich celeb or CEO that I or you will ever know here) on the internets it's hardly worth getting my undies in a knot.

Seriously, take a walk. The leaves are pretty.

[GreenTea]

54. These are my thoughts & observations of Steve Jobs, mixed with Jobs quotes at various times in life

Steve Jobs: “My model for business is The Beatles. They were four guys who kept each other's kind of negative tendencies in check. They balanced each other and the total was greater than the sum of the parts. That's how I see business: great things in business are never done by one person, they're done by a team of people."

Steve Jobs grew up in the sixties (was in high school in 1969). Jobs grew up just 25 miles south of the city (San Francisco) went to shows at the Fillmore West. He was of a different consciousness than most of the money hungry designers of today “you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something -- your gut, destiny, life, karma,. This approach has never let me down, and it has made all the difference in my life”."That's been one of my mantras -- focus and simplicity. Simple can be harder than complex”.

Jobs was like so many in SF bay area back then (hippies if you will) trying to improve oneself was an incredible creative & inventive person, funny & witty, socially aware, music....... whether through eastern philosophy, dropping acid (LSD) Steve Jobs freely spoke how profound his acid experiences were for him as it was so many others, along with his diet, his world consciousness, the environment, socially & politically aware and the caring of others, Jobs certainly did not have that part missing from his brain certainly Jobs had a grasp and understanding of the inherent nature of greed (that so many of the rich & greedy are missing) - Jobs was surely was no saint, (who is)?

Jobs: I think part of what made the Macintosh great was that the people working on it were musicians, poets, artists, zoologists and historians who also happened to be the best computer scientists in the world."

But here's a guy (Jobs) who's a multi-billionaire who casually wears his jeans, tennis shoes, t-shirts most days without the least bit self-consciousness or pretentiousness, comfortable within himself, but he had always been that way....not trying to show everyone how many billions of dollars he has, ala Donald Trump. A perfect example - “Jobs lives in a regular neighborhood, not behind a gated estate, other people (with that kind of wealth) have compounds and walls with all the security guards,”. (Something republicans would never understand in a million years).

It takes a lot more than just being rich or having foresight, intelligence, designing skills, creativity, it takes more, the person inside.....Do any of the people you see in business today even have any concept or clue of this?

"Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything -- all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart. ... Stay hungry. Stay foolish."

Steve Jobs had it strived to make himself a better person as hard as that is (and it is hard) but that’s what it takes. Steve jobs will certainly be missed for a lot more than just concepts & designing & making billions - But for a hell of a lot more. Good-bye Steve Jobs one of a kind!

"I read a study that measured the efficiency of locomotion for various species on the planet. The condor used the least energy to move a kilometer. Humans came in with a rather unimpressive showing about a third of the way down the list....That didn't look so good, but then someone at Scientific American had the insight to test the efficiency of lomotion for a man on a bicycle and a man on a bicycle blew the condor away. That's what a computer is to me: the computer is the most remarkable tool that we've ever come up with. It's the equivalent of a bicycle for our minds”

How could one not miss Steve Jobs?

[Major Hogwash]

61. He was one of the greatest Americans to ever live.

In the last 50 years he created more jobs, created more products, spun off more companies, inspired more people, and improved more lives than any other single American.

[Paladin]

63. I Rest My Case About Steve Jobs Worship.

Hey, I'm a big "Toy Story" fan, but I sure don't see Steve Jobs as the second coming of Christ......

[Major Hogwash]

64. You never had a case.

Jobs was a Buddhist.
He gave away more than you have ever had your sticky little fingers on.