Raw Story: Protesters indiscriminately pepper sprayed at Smithsonian

[markpkessinger]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/09/how-many-protesters-were-pepper-sprayed-at-the-smithsonian/

[Lint Head]

1. This is PUBLIC property. The people have a right to be there as TAX PAYING CITIZENS.

We live in a police state. Isn't it obvious?

[aquart]

2. No. It isn't.

I'm guessing you haven't lived in a "police state."

You know what happened to the peaceful protesters in Iran? They were murdered, arrested, executed, disappeared. THOUSANDS OF THEM. Check out a few stories about Syria. China.

Our people got desk appearance tickets. Fines. They didn't get torture and rape in Evin Prison.

Pepper spray isn't a gun. It's nasty, unpleasant crowd control. You live to tell about it.

[MADem]

4. Thank you for racheting down the hyperbole.

I still am horrified at the round of arrests/murders at Evin following the stolen election.

[aquart]

28. I will always be grateful that I get to come home alive from demonstrations.

Members of my family were, as near as I can tell, arrested and detained under every form of government in the 20th century. Not all of them lived. Only here, because of habeas corpus, was my grandfather released.

Pepper spray is nasty. But it actually means we DON'T live in a police state. Our cops are trying not to kill us.

In Iran, thousands were executed. And everyone else is walking around pretending normalcy now. Our hikers were in Evin. They heard the screams.

[dixiegrrrrl]

5. Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Congress shall make no law
abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So Americans get maced and arrested instead of executed for practicing their Constitutionally protected rights,and that makes it ok, eh?
We have to lose ALL rights to life before we can say it is officially repression?

sorry, but this spurious "it is not a police state unless they kill you" attempt at minimizing the extent of loss of freedom does not cut it.

[TomClash]

8. +1

"If you're not Iran it's ok" is a bizarre mantra and a surefire way to become like Iran.

[dixiegrrrrl]

21. Exactly....

" I didn't beat you up as much as your last husband did, so what are you complaining about?"

" We don't torture like the Spanish Inquisition or North Korea, just a little waterboarding, so what are you complaining about?"

[MADem]

23. Congress shall make no law, but municipalities may issue regulations,

approved by the citizens of said municipalities, that require people to notify law enforcement before they gather in numbers or disrupt the orderly flow of traffic.

And that's just the way it is, because the CITIZENS of the municipalities vote for, and support, those sorts of regulations. They aren't coming from "the man," they're coming from the "We, The People" who live in the town, city, or county.

Google "Evin Prison." That's what democracy doesn't look like.

[Lint Head]

27. I'm guessing you 'have' lived in a "police state".

Good luck with your calming down. The frog is boiling. The police are owned by the rich and the middle class and poor protesters can do nothing more than be kettled and isolated to "free speech zones" and go away because the people that own the golden rule want you to calm down and suppress the hyperbole. By the way hyperbole is free speech. You know nothing about me, my education or my experience so please calm down your assumptions. You know what they say about assuming.

[aquart]

30. I've been "kettled."

And in "free speech zones."

The zones were annoying, the kettling was as frightening as it was unnecessary.

And I get to brag about being gassed once, too.

I've also seen people in protest crowds deliberately try to incite riot and attempt to turn the crowd on the police. If there is no one of courage to stop that crap, it can get ugly indeed.

Peaceful protest is just that: no matter what THEY do, YOU don't fight back. And if you can't follow those really simple rules, STAY HOME.

[bainz]

3. If this were a police state, none of this would be allowed to happen.

How many were shot or "disappeared"? Why does the video show what happened after, but not prior and/or during the "police state" action. As far as those involved, where do you get the idea that they are tax paying citizens?

[MADem]

6. Come on--what MUSEUM is going to let a bunch of angry people in with huge SIGNS?

The museum guards are there to protect the property. Hell, they won't even let you walk around most museums with a backpack, never mind a giant sign. And the video says they were carrying signs. They weren't there to see the wonders of the Smithsonian, they were there to do a sit-in. Fair play for the attempt, but they can't get annoyed when they get checked, either.

I don't think the doorway of the Smithsonian is a good place to try to negotiate the issue, as these individuals learned. The security guards weren't about to play.

[bluestate10]

9. The protesters were there to protest a Drone exhibit.

I have mixed feelings about this event. The protesters are likely good people, but I am not sure some, if not all, realize how dangerous some humans can be and that those dangerous humans will not stop themselves and have to be stopped by force. The issue for me boils down to whether I would rather see the caskets of soldiers that were sent to arrest an evil person, or see a Drone track and kill that person. I will take the latter every time.

I agree with you, the guards are there to protect the property and people that are viewing exhibits. They are not negotiators.

[MADem]

22. Concur-- they shouldn't expect to be welcomed inside the museum with

signs for the purposes of disrupting the access by patrons, which is why I think some may have welcomed or at least anticipated the confrontation. They can protest the exhibit all the live-long day outside if they'd like.

Shutting down an exhibit (don't look at those drones, don't know about them, don't learn about them) isn't going to make them go away.

As we know, they are also used for intel purposes. Not all of them are weaponized.

I have no problem whatsoever with a drone protest outside the museum, though, and a clear articulation of the protesters' POV. It's inside, where there are other exhibits as well, and tourists who have saved their money to make the trip and visit the museum, where I part ways with this group.

[DrDan]

7. sympathy will be hard to find among the general public

A blunder setting the OWS movement back.

[bluestate10]

10. OWS is a broad movement. It includes an anti-war element.

The protesters at the museum were there to protest a Drone display. If the incident sets OWS back, it will be because the general public does not understand that two of the concerns of OWS people was war and defense spending. While I agree with the OWS people on defense spending, there should be far less, I don't agree with them at all on the use of Drones.

[Bluenorthwest]

11. Most Americans find the drones to be wrong, and cowardly

Millions oppose robo death from above. The use of such drones without a declared and legal war should be a war crime. Period.

[DrDan]

20. so then protest their use at a locaion that has something to do with their use - not a museum

just stupid and a setback for the OWS movement.

[DrDan]

19. If you want to protest the use of drones, do it at a location

that has something to do with their use, not a museum.

What's next, libraries that contain books detailing various wars, war equipment . . . . perhaps even pictures of drones.

You underestimate the general public - they do realize that a museum is simply that . . . a museum.

[CoffeeCat]

12. The OWS movement is growing exponentially...

Just two weeks ago, the MSM wasn't even mentioning the protests. Now, the protest
is being covered by most outlets.

OWS is growing in numbers as well. This thing has momentum.

I doubt this isolated incident, that hardly anyone knows about, will affect the
broader picture.

[KharmaTrain]

13. Just Watch The Corporate Media Do Its Thing...

The narrative of "dirty fuckin' hippies"...videos of the clash next to those of the 60s Chicago riots followed by hours of endless spinning and mental masturbation from the pundits. Nothing lives in a vaccuum anymore and having the ability to play to fears and stereotypes is what the corporate media does best. Sorry...this incident WILL hurt OWS as it has nothing to do with the main rallying point which is corporate greed and corruption.

Want to get rid of the drones? Elect more anti-war Democrats....retake the House and just like the teabaggers; push your legislation through the legislature. As one who lived the "golden protest" days of the 60s and 70s I saw the greatest successes...anti-war, environment, civil rights...based on focusing on the issue and educating the public...winning the battle of "hearts & minds". We're seeing how a populist message about income inequality is rallying people together...this is what OSW was set up to focus on...and the focus needs to stay there. When your message gets watered down or distracted, people lose enthusiasm and frustration replaces hope and things fizzle out. I don't want to see that happen.

Cheers...

[MADem]

24. The focus needs to stay on corporate greed, corruption and excess, and the

unholy alliance between corporate powers and Congress.

If they lose the bubble on this, after finally getting it, it will suck.

[greytdemocrat]

14. The OWS Protesters

In this case, were complete idiots.

[Earth_First]

15. This group is NOT #ows, it was "October 11/Stop the Machine"

They are a mostly anti-war group who were protesting the use of drone aircraft overseas.

[greytdemocrat]

16. Ahhhh. Got it.

Another group of idiots. Thanks for the correction Earth_First!!!

[MADem]

25. Thank you for that clarification. Because of all of the attribution on the internet, I mistakenly

believed that this group was OWS.

[CJCRANE]

17. Conservative Magazine Brags of its Agent Provacateur's Role in Provoking Police Action in D.C.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2084473

[MADem]

26. Well of course they would--what did two years of continuous police v. protesters get us

back in the day? Let's see--Richard Nixon.

People don't remember, but he ran on "Law And Order" and that, probably more than his bullshit "Secret Plan to End The Vietnam War" (which, to be totally accurate, he never said--he had surrogates say it for him, and he didn't deny it) gave him a frighteningly resounding victory.

People tuned into the nightly news back then, and every fucking night, it was either beat-downs in the street, or guys getting shot in Vietnam.


The fact, though, that this dickhead ADMITS in writing that he incited people to "civil disobedience/trespassing/disorderly conduct" leaves the Smithsonian open to the option of charging his tiresome smart ass with a couple of nice "pile on" chargers--disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace, inciting violence, whatever they can drum up. Drag him into court and make him pay!

But I thought this group was NOT "OWS?" Why is he saying that they are?

[LiberalEsto]

18. This was obviously a staged event by right-wingers

to smear the Occupy DC protest

[Fire Walk With Me]

29. dailykos has the original, unedited version (it got pulled and edited)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/08/1024352/-Conservative-Magazine-Brags-of-its-Agent-Provacateurs-Role-in-Provoking-Police-Action-in-DC-?via=siderec