A clue for Michael Vick warning: graphic image

[northernlights]

The first step to healing is admitting you are sick. He is a sadist. He has refused any real help.

He refused psychoanalysis. He refused therapy. These were not "crimes of passion." He did not lose his temper, snap and beat a dog (bad enough). He got pleasure from torturing his dogs. That is sadism. When they failed to perform, he hung them to death, soaked them in water and electrocuted them. In at least one case, he picked the victim up and swung him like a jumprope, slamming his head into the ground until he'd killed him. For pleasure.

Here is a survivor of a sadistic torturer who took pleasure from inflicting pain:

[demmiblue]

1. PLEASE include a graphic warning. n/t

[JackintheGreen]

2. Seconded on the graphic warning

I WORK with abused dogs, and I don't want this thrown in my face without a word of caution.

[Canuckistanian]

3. Now he's saying he "needs" a dog for therapy

Wrong! Get a therapist first, THEN you can say you're getting "therapy".

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. And?

He served his time. He has become an advocate for animal rights and is doing so to more than the satisfaction of the ASPCA. He is under no obligation whatsoever to you or anyone else to receive psychotherapy, and he has been cleared by authorities to rejoin society.

You don't have to forgive him, but that's really your problem, not his. By the same measure, don't think you have any right to say what he should or shouldn't be doing so long as he's within the limits of the law. If you don't like that, work to change the law.

[Mojorabbit]

5. If you substitute child

for the above instead of dog the story changes. If he abused children society has a say in what he does.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

6. And we did have a say.

He went to court. Then he went to jail. He fulfilled his debt to society as prescribed by law.

If you don't think that was an appropriate debt, go change the law. You can't blame Vick if the law is inadequate - there are a lot of things that are his fault, but this isn't one of them.

[northernlights]

7. I can blame Vick for refusing to get a clue. nt

and I can blame him for:

1. refusing therapy
2. daring to ask Best Friends to advocate for him in court
3. being so stupid it didn't even dawn on him to pretend to care about the well-being of the dogs he tortured.

Vick is choosing to run a PR campaign in an attempt to rehabilitate his image. I am choosing to disabuse that PR campaign.

As is my right.

[CLANG]

30. You might as well blame him for being black too.

Blame him for all bad things that affect your daily life, but it won't change the fact that he paid his dues to society, which is our society. If you don't feel included in that society, so be it, but that's not his problem.

[northernlights]

60. your post makes zero sense. His problem: he's a sadistic dog torturer who refuses to get help

and then has articles written about how he deserves to be forgiven and how he hopes to get a dog again.

I blame him for refusing to get a clue and refusing to get help.

I certainly do not blame him for any of the problems that affect *my* daily life.

And exactly why are you trying to make this about me? Oh, wait, I know. Because if we look at Vick and at what he did, we might see a sadistic dog torturer running a pathetic PR campaign instead of the rehabitated dog-lover he apparently expects us to believe he is.

[CLANG]

78. I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Booster]

29. Part of his debt to society included that he never own another

dog. I think that part of his sentence should stick. What this man did to dogs was plain sick and I agree with other posters who say get professional help first, then we'll talk about you owning another dog.

[lolly]

87. Convicted Child abusers

Can never work at a preschool--even after they've finished their sentence. Imagine if someone who had tortured small children, then served his sentence, said "I think it would be good for me to adopt a child." Um, no.

I believe he is still on probation--which would explain why he has to ask permission to get a dog in the first place.

So, no, we (society) don't have to let him get dogs, for therapy or otherwise.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

90. My point is, and has always been this:

If you don't think the law is strong enough, change the law. But as it currently stands, Vick has fulfilled his obligations and repaid his debts. Once he's off probation, that's it. Society will have had its final say.

[nc4bo]

8. Sometimes I think society cares more about dogs than kids.

Just the many people I've seen here in backwoods NC that would run into a ditch to avoid hitting a dog scampering across a highway yet think nothing of blowing through school zones between 2:30-3:30pm, kids walking/bicycling/playing on either side of the street (no sidewalks in my area).

When I constantly see crap like that (and I do), I really have to wonder where our (or their) priorities lie.

[northernlights]

9. it has been well-documented that sociopathic torturers and murderers

usually start with animals and work their way "up" to children and other humans.

[nc4bo]

18. Well - that puts my neck o' the woods @ around 6 out of 10. Marvelous.

Then again, I'm surrounded by Fort Bragg soldiers and their families.

Sobering, eh?

[hlthe2b]

33. I'd be willing to be the people who blow through school zones...

are NOT those who would "run into a ditch to avoid hitting a dog scampering across a highway..." Even in your cynicism, you must surely realize that they would be equally concerned about hitting an animal by blowing through the school zone stretch of road as they would any other area.

In fact those who learn and appreciate compassion towards animals extend it to humans as well. Unfortunately, you can not automatically state the converse as true.

[nc4bo]

39. Umm.....no.

Our neighbor down the street (she's one I know personally) is a classic school zone blowing, drive it in a ditch dog lover :S.

Sorry. There's many like her around here.

[hlthe2b]

42. An n=1 is hardly grounds for correlation...

There are assholes among every group and demographic. FWIW, I likewise detest those that blow through residential areas and schools zones. I have always lived in dire fear of hitting someone. An adult would be bad enough, but a kid..... I don't know how one would live with that.

[nc4bo]

44. You don't live here, I wish you could for about 2 weeks. You would be horrified

at what I see daily. Perhaps it's because of where I live.

This is dog (as well as god's) country.

[hlthe2b]

48. So while deriding them for their obvious irresponsibility

(and hypocrisy vis-a-vis living those religious tenets), why do you find their concern and compasssion towards animals likewise worthy of derision? Seems to me that would be one aspect of otherwise unpleasant people that you could applaud. :shrug:

[nc4bo]

53. Hey, I just find it hypocritcal that I see a predominance of animal love

over the love of child and ironic that this is supposed to be the bible belt.

Which is why I said that it seems that there is more love of dog than of child.

But, this is in my neck o' the woods and it's my observation. Yours is obviously different.

What more can I possibly say? Oh wait, before you call me a dog hater, I'm not. I have my very own fur baby.

[hlthe2b]

56. why does it have to be one or the other? either/or?

Can't you find it in yourself to have love and compassion for both? I did not call you a dog hater and would not. I would likely put my life at risk to save a child if I could (I say "likely" because who among us knows for sure until it happens). I would be likewise likely to do so for one of my beloved pups, if I could. I just don't see why there has to be love for humans OR love for animals and not both?

[nc4bo]

63. I doubt anyone except each individual person, could answer that...

Why do humans do half of the things they do I just don't know.

I can use a broad stroke only because of the tiny development I live in. Outside of it, it's getting really populated because of the Base Closure and Realignment activities. Inside it's very country and rural and so are the people. We've been here long enough where we can recognize neighbor's cars at the store, going down the street, coming and going down the main street and to their streets and homes and they, ours.

I've also seen neighbors take a rifle and shoot at dogs trespassing on their property here. It really is a little of everything where I am.

But, it must be an either/or for some, it obviously is here. For me it's not. I do think that some folks just don't really think about it or they have their own opinion on what is more important. Maybe their priorities are in their subconscious?

I kindof wish I knew. What I do know is that it's sad and scary and I'm a bit selfish when I say I'm relieved that my kids are grown.

[cleanhippie]

16. But you can't.

He didn't abuse children.

[northernlights]

21. yet

not all animal torturers move up to children. But many if not most child torturers/serial killers started off with "lesser" victims.

Sadism is sadism.

[cleanhippie]

61. Your assertion is laughable.

Totally baseless and nothing more than an emotional plea.

[northernlights]

68. I'm sorry you find it laughable that studies show most serial torturers and killers started with

animals. But that is a simple fact. It has nothing to do with pleading.

Perhaps you could explain the laughable part for all of us to share in your amusement?

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Creative]

94. Okay, we get it. You do not believe anyone deserves a second chance.

[Kalyke]

22. And dog breeders, humane societies and other purveyors of dogs

can also refuse to sell him one.

I hope they all do.

[northernlights]

23. sadly there are puppy mills who won't care about the fate of their puppies

other than, perhaps, the opportunity to sell him replacements.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

55. That's in their right, sure. (nt)

[northernlights]

28. and dogs are not therapists.

Nor are they whipping boys to be beaten and tortured so you can feel all powerful and manly.

Get therapy, Mr. Vick. From a real, honest licensed psychotherapist. Look at yourself deeply. Find out why you are sadistic. Learn why you take pleasure in inflicting pain and killing. Learn how to *not* take pleasure in inflicting pain. Learn to express love.

When you can honestly say you wish you could have a dog to *love* on to try to make up for what you did to countless others. And when you can add that you realize that you do not deserve such a privilege. That jail time, probation, etc. do not *atone* for inflicting torture on countless dogs, cats, owners of the pets you stole to be torn apart to "train" your dogs...that nothing you do can un-do the damage.

When you can look yourself in the mirror and say those things, then you can consider yourself on the path to rehabilitation.

But as far as I'm concerned, you can take your PR campaign and shove it where the sun don't shine. Because I don't give a flying fuck that you spent time in jail, that you spent time on probation, that your career was huwt (boo-fucking-hoo), that you lost money (boo-fucking-hoo all over again).

You ARE AND YOU REMAIN A SADISTIC TORTURER AND KILLER.

[LanternWaste]

43. Actually, we do have every right to say...

Actually, we do have every right to say what a person should or should not be doing--regarldess of whether it's legal or not. Preventing him from doing a thing is a different matter. I suppose that "if you don't like that, work to change the law..."

[lunatica]

85. The only debt he fulfilled was the legal one.

He has no right to be anywhere near dogs or any other animals. His debt was an easy one for one who tortured animals for pleasure and money. And for anyone who thinks he has no more to pay, I can only wonder how his apologists and fans feel about torturing animals for profit and fun.

[northernlights]

10. Another clue for Michael Vick warning: graphic image

Wanting a dog "to prove" to everybody (or anybody) how much you love them is no more acceptable a reason to have a dog than wanting a dog to prove how tough a guy you are. You do remember *those* dogs, don't you? The dogs you "love" so much you tortured them to death?

The dogs you "love" so much that you never once contributed to their care and rehabilitation?

The dogs you "loved" so much that you never even asked about their well-being?

The dogs you "loved" so much that you had the fucking gall to instead ask their caretakers and rehabilitators to help you fix your reputation?

Remember those dogs, Vick? In case you don't, here is what one of them looked like before the press came out with the pretty after pictures to help your little PR campaign:

[Canuckistanian]

11. This one, too, please

[hlthe2b]

12. My question after his heinous crimes towards animals...

if surely not whether he should ever be allowed to own a dog (which he surely should NOT), but rather, why he is allowed unsupervised time around children, including his own?

[northernlights]

13. a third clue for Michael Vick warning: graphic image

You claim to "love" dogs and have "passion" for them.

Here is another clue: Love does NOT look like this.

[MrScorpio]

14. The man has a Twitter account, you know?

I'm sure that he'll get the message a lot easier THAT way, than posting the same picture three times in a row on a website that he's probably never heard of.

[northernlights]

15. as long as people on this board continue to tell us why we should "forgive" Vick

I will continue to highlight why it's not our job to forgive him, it's our job to prevent future victims.

I don't have a twitter account, but thanks for the idea.

And if my posts bother you, there is an ignore button. Feel free to use it. I don't read your crap either.

[MrScorpio]

17. I'm sure all of the board's Vick proxies appreciate the diligent way that you're expressing...

Your concern.

And BTW, on Twitter... It's Neato!

[lukasahero]

89. I do have a twitter acct

And I am connected by it to 300+ animal welfare/rescue advocates. Great idea that poster gave us. :hi:

[northernlights]

19. Vick's invisible victims never had their day in court

Many people aren't aware how dog fighters "train" their dogs. They get smaller dogs and cats, tape their mouths or seal them in burlap bags, and throw them in the ring to be torn to shreds. Of course, they can't adopt them from shelters or buy them, or they might be found out. So instead, they steal them.

Only a few weeks ago, an elderly woman in California was shoved to the ground, and had her purse and her small *yorkshire terrier* stolen.
Her dog was probably torn to pieces shortly thereafter. And she probably knows it, but couldn't protect her dog, find her dog, or prove his fate.

Vick operated no differently. They steal people's beloved pets from their yards and throw them into the ring to be torn into pieces.

Any of his neighbors who had dogs or cats disappear during those dog-fighting years...now suspects the fate of their beloved dog or cat.

They never had *their* day in court. Not the torn up dogs and cats. Not their mourning owners.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cleanhippie]

62. But HE did, and he was convicted.

And he went to prison.

Then he started over, is becoming one of the best football players seen in a very long time, and that really pisses you off.

[northernlights]

71. I don't follow football and don't care if he kicks, throws, hangs or electrocutes balls

as long as he never again has the opportunity to kick, throw, eletrocute, hang or otherwise torture, injure or maim dogs or other animals.

[cleanhippie]

77. We ALL have that opportunity, everyday, right now.

I guess you just want him locked up forever then. Opportunity is one thing, acting on it is another. I am quite sure he will never do any of that again.

[northernlights]

91. No. He should never have a dog again. Period.

How many men tell their beaten up wives or girlfrieds it's all because they love them and they're so sorry and they'll never do it again?

It doesn't matter how much YOU trust that he will never beat, electrocute, torture or maim another dog again. Because *you're* not the one who will suffer horribly if you happen to be wrong. No defenseless animal should be forced to test how much he "loves" animals, for *any* reason, let alone so he can prove any fucking thing to the world.

Clearly he does not. He beat, electrocuted, and tortured dogs.He did it for laughs and kicks. He is a sadist.

Psychopathic sadistic torturing killers don't get to decide they're all over it, and have the opportunity to go do it again.

He should be banned for life from having any animals in his household.

Hell -- I know people who have been banned for life and had all their animals taken away for far, far less.

[lukasahero]

92. Bravo - nice point about battered spouses and those who do the beating

Good catch and one I may use in the future. Thanks!

[canadianbeaver]

24. That Vick monster can go f^ck himself.........

Asshole....penatly for the monster did not equal the deed....imho

[cottonseed]

25. Mike's alright with me. In a country that mows over animals for food and profit...

I think him doing his time, paying his debt to society, and now advocating against what he had done, is fine with me.

[AmandaMae]

26. Fuck him.

Anyone who thinks he deserves another chance needs to look at this picture.

[cottonseed]

27. I love these posts. It brings out all the DUers that advocate killing human beings.

Which is pretty fucking sick if you ask me. I think some people should be alerted on and possibly be handed over to the police.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flvegan]

36. Racism?

(facepalm)

[LanternWaste]

46. Expressing a negative opinion of someone

Expressing a negative opinion of someone who tortured dogs for fun and profit is both racism and advocating the killing of humans...?

Precisely and with relevance, how?

[CLANG]

49. I never advocated killing of humans - that was another poster.

[northernlights]

52. nobody said you did -- try rereading the post

this time for comprehension.

You may also want to peruse the 4 merged threads and find exactly where the 2 references to race are.

Oh, that's right. There are 2 people accusing dog-defenders of being racist. And that's it.

Exactly how does wanting to protect defenseless dogs from an admitted, convicted dog-torturer and killer equate with racism? Inquiring minds would really like to know. :eyes:

[CLANG]

79. I have no idea what you're talking about.

[cherokeeprogressive]

31. Please stop posting gory pictures that Michael Vick will NEVER see.

They serve no purpose other than to be gory. MY mind is made up about him and showing me tortured dogs won't change it one way or another.

Does posting gory pictures that Michael Vick will NEVER see make you feel good somehow?

Unrec for unnecessary gore.

[northernlights]

45. the warning is there

And I will continue to continue pictures depicting what Michael Vick did as long as people continue to insist he spent time in jail so deserves to be forgiven and allowed to have pet dogs. Because a lot of them never saw that picture, nor the others.

It's not about me. It's about dogs, what Vick did to them before and what he'd likely do to them again.

My posts bother you? Heed the graphic warning or become acquainted with the ignore button.

But don't waste your time telling me what to do or not to do. You are not the boss of me.

[cherokeeprogressive]

54. Hey, if posting pictures of tortured animals is what gets you through the night, knock yourself out.

I don't see what good it does. I see you posting gory pictures, and I see people opening the thread so they can look at the gory pictures. That's pretty much all I see going on here, and I think there's something midly sick about posting gory pictures of tortured animals for the sake of posting gory pictures of tortured animals.

You think there is one single poster on this thread who HASN'T seen your pictures before?

I haven't seen ONE SINGLE post here at DU advocating for Vick to have a pet dog. Have you?

[northernlights]

58. all over this thread there are people advocating for him to have a pet dog

And all over the thread that motivated this, which was the thread on his newest article about how he hopes to have a dog someday.

And also all over the poll thread.

You clearly haven't read the many defenders of Michael Vick on this and the other threads.

As long as they continue to post his PR campaign, I will continue to rebut it.You don't like it? Try the ignore button. I really don't give a fuck.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[northernlights]

74. yet again a would-be enabler of a dog killer tries to make it about race

keep trying. Sorry you don't understand the difference between race and species. :eyes:

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nyc 4 Biden]

34. k&r

[DefenseLawyer]

35. What's your purpose posting this, in Dec. 2010?

Did you need to reinforce to the world that you were a better person than Michael Vick? Given how vindictive and unforgiving you obviously are, perhaps the jury is still out.

[northernlights]

41. What's Vick's purpose in having articles written about how he hopes to have a dog again someday?

And why do people in DU continue to try to help him in his pathetic PR campaign?

This isn't about me. I've written it before; I'll say it here again. As long as DUers keep trying to resurrect this sadistic killer's career, and support his campaign, I will continue to respond for the victims.

The jury is not still out. There is no question about what he did. He tortured and killed countless dogs -- his own and those unfortunate stolen animals that served as "training bait."

There also is no question about what he didn't do:
He refused therapy.
He did not offer a single penny to pay for the expensive and extensive rehabilitation of his survivors.
He asked not once about their welfare.


And what has he done since he was convicted of torturing and killing dogs? He did have the fucking balls to ask Best Friends for a recommendation.

And then he had the fucking balls to start a PR campaign about how rehabilitated he is, bought and paid for NONrehabilitation.

And now he has the fucking balls to go on about how he loves dogs and hopes to have one again.

Look at what he did to them. For fun. For pleasure. For laughs.

[DefenseLawyer]

51. Why don't you just save us all some time and kill Michael Vick?

Chop him into little pieces. He obviously deserves it. No DU jury would ever convict you. They would cheer for you as the most reasonable person in the history of the world.

[northernlights]

57. because unlike Vick, I am not a murderer of sentient beings.

And where, on this entire sequence, have you seen me once advocate violence against Vick or anybody else?

And why are you recommending that I commit murder? Looking for business, DefenseLawyer?

[Maru Kitteh]

59. The very fact that it makes Vick's apologists here so uncomfortable shows how shameful and untenable

their position is. It's important that people remember exactly what this monster did. Thank you for being the voice of his many victims.

[cleanhippie]

64. The only ones "uncomfortable" here are those on your side.

Your side is the one calling for additional punishment, beyond what a court of law demanded and that he served. Those on your side are calling for his dismemberment, his obstruction from working, his obstruction from starting over.

Yeah, the only ones uncomfortable are you.

[northernlights]

72. no. only never to allowed to have a dog again

and uncomfortable with his PR campaign, and those who persist advocate for a sadistic animal torturer and killer for the sole reason that he can throw or kick a fucking ball.

How truly pathetic to be so addicted to a stupid television game that some so easily would send innocent and defenseless animals to be tortured and killed so their idol can get his jollies. Beyond juvenile.

Enabling a sadistic torturer. Sick.

[cleanhippie]

80. No one is doing that. Its only happening in your fantasy world.

No one doing any of what you state. But there are those calling for his death, his dismemberment, his permanent imprisonment.

Yeah, that progressive.

You know what IS progressive? Supporting someone who served their time and is trying to start over. You should try it. It's quite liberating, letting go of all that hate.

[northernlights]

93. I suppose you think incesters out of jail they should get their raped children back too

After all, they served their time. They don't need therapy as long as they've decided their all better. And they LOOOOOOVE LITTLE CHILDREN.

So sure, they should get their kids back so they can have a second chance to rape them again? bull fucking shit.

Or is that only if the incesters happen to be football stars? How about hockey stars? How about presidents? Should W be let off for war crimes?

Dogs are as defenseless as children -- often moreso, since they don't have social workers to check in on them if they're handed back to known torturers. They don't get a choice and they don't have a voice.

[cottonseed]

65. What's uncomfortable is DUers advocating for Michael Vick's death. Is that something you support?

Is this position untenable?

[fascisthunter]

37. people don't care because he's a star

take that away and most people wouldn't defend him saying, he did his time. That's not the fucking point, the man is sick.

[flvegan]

38. Those outside wounds heal faster than the inside ones.

I've liberated fighters that will cower at the sight of a person with a shovel, rake, broom, etc for the rest of their lives. I had one that took 3 weeks just to let me pet him.

These Vick apologists that show up on these threads have no fucking clue what it's like for these dogs. They amuse me to no end.

[ileus]

40. Go Philly!

[Catherina]

47. Rec'd. Recommended! n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

50. Fuck Vick. He shouldn't have been allowed to keep his children.

He doesn't deserve the company of any living thing.

[cleanhippie]

66. Bwahahahaha!

thats funny. You should become a comedian.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BrklynLiberal]

70. Despise the man and all he stands for. The fact that there are many out there

who would still glorify and adore him makes me sick to my stomach.

I hope he gets the karma he so richly deserves.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dappleganger]

75. Cue all the Vick defenders once again.

In our home when Vick is playing or on tv, we turn the channel. We used to be HUGE Vick fans when he was playing for the Hokies (dh graduated from VA Tech). When all of this came out it just made us sick and we wrote him off. He's not our family or friend so we don't owe him SHIT. There's always plenty of other teams to watch beside the loser.

[cleanhippie]

81. Sorry.

Thats too bad. You are really missing out.

[Dappleganger]

83. missing out on what?

Nothing, love.

[cleanhippie]

84. Well,

there is the great football. Perhaps one of the best players to come along in a long time. No worries, its not for everyone I guess.

[Dappleganger]

86. No he's not.

And I've been watching Vick since he was playing for Warwick. There's a lot of people out there with raw talent but can't keep their head together to pull it off, consistently.

[cleanhippie]

88. It certainly is a subjective opinion.

And we see it from different perspectives. One thing I think we may be able to agree on, he is better now than he was before, and looking like he will only continue to improve, no?