Would we ever elect a Scientologist as President?

[NightWatcher]

CNN's been pushing the idea that (Romney's) religion isn't fair game and doesn't have any bearing on a candidate's judgement.

Religion doesn't matter? Would you take a Scientologist and the "stuff" they believe?

Is the real point that certain beliefs are acceptable and others are just a little too far fetched.

[Kennah]

1. L Ron Hubbard 2012

He's not dead, you know.

:sarcasm:

[Drale]

29. He's living under Disney World with Walt /nt

[TheWraith]

2. I sure as shit hope not.

Any more than we'd elect a chemtrail believer. I'm not exactly a big fan of organized religion, but there's still a huge difference between religion (under which Mormonism falls) and just plain fucking gullibility.

[sharp_stick]

17. I don't know

what's the difference between some wacko that says he found some golden plates that only he can see and some wacko that says aliens were dropped off on the planet thousands of years ago?

One person's sky wizard is another persons plain fucking gullibility. Personally I think they're all full of shit in exactly the same way.

[Arugula Latte]

20. I don't think so.

If you really boil down the stories, they're all completely whack-job. Virgin births via rape-by-deity, a dead guy coming back to Earth, golden tablets, spaceships ... all are nutty. It's just that the Jesus story-myth is familiar in our culture, so it seems less insane to most Americans.

[TheWraith]

38. The "virgin birth" thing is actually a gross mistranslation.

The original Hebrew text actually uses a word to describe Mary that means "a young woman of marriageable age," not "a virgin." In other words, there's no actual reason to think she got knocked up in anything aside from the conventional way. But in successive translations, and in the filtering of the New Testament through classic Greco-Roman polytheism--something that happened both deliberately to help ease the way for new believers, and accidentally through cultural bias--her story became associated with and shared characteristics of the Roman virgin goddesses, particularly associated with spring, birth, and purity. Hence, she became a "virgin mother."

It's a case like Christmas and the birth of Jesus. While the Bible doesn't specify when he was born, the description of the shepherds implies that it was probably early autumn, around what would be September today. But the end of December made a convenient date to co-opt the Roman pagan tradition of the solstice feast of Sol Invictus: the unconquered sun, rising again from the depths of winter to bring new life. Sound familiar?

[Arugula Latte]

39. Right. Christianity co-opted and stole many of the myths of an earlier people.

To believe them as "the truth" is nuts, in my opinion, yet millions of people do believe them and think Jesus is going to come back to Earth at any time and "save" people. Substitute "Mork from Ork" or "Bob the busdriver" for "Jesus" and you've got a case of mental illness on your hands.

[customerserviceguy]

42. You're exactly right

We have our own favorite national myth, and most of us are sticking to it.

Unfortunately.

[awoke_in_2003]

40. Really?...

Like what?

[Taverner]

3. All religions are equally silly

But there are not enough Scientologists - or Mormons for that matter - to put either in the White House

[MineralMan]

8. They are, in my opinion, too, but most Presidents have

religious beliefs of some sort, so it's pretty much impossible not to vote for someone who holds religious beliefs. A guy's gotta check out what the candidate has done.

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. No, most Presidents CLAIM religious beliefs of some sort.

And they all give lip service to it - but I'd wager there's been more than a few atheists and agnostics in the WH.

[MineralMan]

27. You could well be correct. Too bad, that.

[TheDebbieDee]

21. ITA! Why wouldn't America vote for a Scientologist?

After all, for centuries, America has been voting for men that believe in pregnant virgins.

America has been voting for men that believe in burning bushes that talk and hand out rules to live by.

America has been voting for men that believe that the decendants of ancient shepherders in the Middle East are more special than everybody else - because it says so in a book - that just happened to be written by the shepherders' ancestors. Gosh!

[yurbud]

47. cult + time = respectable religion

Mormons are in the gray zone, but upstarts like Scientology make them look more credible.

[Codeine]

4. One hopes not. nt

[Lint Head]

5. Only if they run against Xenu.

[dbackjon]

16. xenu vs Kolob?

[MineralMan]

6. I don't know. I would not knowingly vote for one, just as I would

not knowingly vote for a Republican. I don't really care about the religious beliefs of candidates, unless their citations about their beliefs demonstrate that they would base their actions on their religious beliefs. I don't like that sort of thing. Where religious beliefs coincide with society's ethical values, I have no problem. Where they do not, I have a big problem. Scientology pretty much dictates a lot of actions, so I would be opposed to a Scientologist in principle.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. Obama opposes marriage equality because of religious belief

and he clearly states that his religion is the only reason he can come up with for that opposition. His actions, speaking in opposition to equal rights for some minorities, are dictated by his religious beliefs, according to him. God is in the mix.

[MineralMan]

26. I do not know of a single Presidential candidate in my lifetime

with whom I agreed 100% on every issue. If I only voted for such candidates, I'd never cast a vote at all. You are correct, and I believe he is wrong to hold that position. To his credit, he is doing nothing to fight with states that have made marriage equality happen, and supports the repeal of DOMA. I needn't mention that DADT ended during his presidency.

Every President I know of has claimed religious beliefs. The one possible exception was Franklin Pierce, who affirmed, rather than swore, the oath of office.

I do not judge candidates or Presidents based on a single issue, ever. It is the composite I vote for, because I know there will never be a President who believes exactly as I do on every issue. It is a mistake to expect it, and it will never happen. So, your pointing out of this single issue is more or less irrelevant in my decision, and will be in 2012, too. Despite my firm support for marriage equality, which I have expressed for decades, I will not vote for or against a President solely on the basis of that issue. Instead, I will continue to work toward marriage equality in my own state and support efforts in other states and nationally.

[Bluenorthwest]

34. Edited

Double post, second version better.

[Bluenorthwest]

36. Inconsistent with your post about the other religion, that's all...

I would never ask any straight person to take an actual stand, that is far too much for them. What I ask is that you inform the politicians you are voting for in spite of their bigotry toward your neighbors that you are voting in spite of that, not because of it. I ask that you do so regularly, clearly, so that they do not confuse your support of their candidacy with support of their religious bigotry. Let them know the bigotry is a drawback, not a selling point, ask them to explain it in non religious terms, as you are not religious. Those are things you can do. Ask the WH what 'sanctity' means in the context of civil law, it is a good question, ask them. Send them $500 while you do if you want, but also let them know that the opposition to equal rights for minorities and their reasons for that opposition are not shared by you.
So that and vote for any Democrat. But the silent thing is not support, it is just silence and silence = death. So go with knowledge, which equals life, and let them know what you think. That is all you and your community are ever asked to do. Very little is expected of the straight community. Just speak up, speak for yourself.
Does that seem so difficult? I don't think so. Does that ask you to make any choice over this or any 'one issue'? No it does not.

[MineralMan]

37. But I do take a stand on that issue, among many others.

And I have informed President Obama of my support for marriage equality and my disappointment that he is not fully supporting marriage equality. I'm rarely silent on any issue. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I take no stand on this important issue, but you're quite mistaken.

Perhaps you're speaking in general terms. I don't know.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. Well you were talking about 'single issue voting'

and how you'd never let this issue be a decider, and I never asked you to do that. It all seemed rather off topic to me, so I explained exactly what I do ask of straight folk who say they support both equality and politicians who oppose equality. Because there is a contradiction in that, just as there is for all of us who year after year have to find ways to vote for candidates who insult us and employ surrogates who do far worse. If any gay person was a single issue voter, they'd never get to vote, so where that comes from is anybody's guess. But the subject at hand is religion, and the rhetoric from politicians, and the question is should one religion get a pass that is not issued to another? And if so, why?

[MineralMan]

49. The bottom line is that Presidential candidates all profess

Christianity. I can vote for a Democrat or not at all. I do not make decisions on any individual issue, but on overall position. When it comes to the Presidency, I get two viable choices only. So, I vote for the Democrat. Your assumption that I'm not a solid supporter of marriage equality is insulting. I have stated that support again and again, and am active in informing elected officials and candidates of it. Yes, I'm a straight guy, but that does not mean I don't stand for equal rights for all.

You're going after the wrong person. I'm on your side. Even if you continue to say that I'm not, I will still be actively<[/i> supporting marriage equality. It is not you I answer to, but rather my own conscience in this matter. I don't really deal with individuals' opinions of me. That's not a worthwhile thing to do. I do what I do to support all issues of importance to me, and marriage equality is one of those, for reasons I will not explain to you or anyone else. I do not owe explanations to random, anonymous posters on discussion forums.

If you're seeking out my posts for some reason, you're wasting your time.

[Enrique]

7. CNN is right

the attacks on Romney's religion that I've heard are pure bigotry, and it's correct to call them out on it.

[XemaSab]

9. I would vote for a Mormon LONG before I'd vote for a $cientologist

There are many people of Mormon faith who are smart, sincere people; $cientologists are just suckers.

If you want to know more, please send $100 and a self-addressed, stamped envelope to:

$cientologists are $uckers
8374 Elm Street
Redding, CA 96016

[bemildred]

10. Everything is fair game.

There are no taboos. That's what free speech is all about.

[KamaAina]

11. Hell, we already had a Satanist as VP

[WinkyDink]

15. More truth than humor.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. He could only be a Satanist if he worshipped himelf.

Oh. Right.

[no_hypocrisy]

12. I'd say four years before an Atheist is elected.

[demosincebirth]

31. Not in this country.

[malaise]

13. If Obama's religion was and is fair game

so is Romneys

[devilgrrl]

14. $cientology?

eom.

[Puzzledtraveller]

18. That's a great poll idea..

List a few prominent scientologists and see who would get the most votes, follow up poll for running mates.

[frogmarch]

19. No.

No.

"Did you ever read poor old George Orwell's uh... 1984? Yes, yes, that's wonderful. That would be, could be, the palest imagined shadow of what a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with no remedy in existence."
-L. Ron Hubbard PDC Lecture #20



http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Stop-Narconon/Baca/Scientology_and_Politics.html

[Warren DeMontague]

23. I think what a Candidate believes is ABSOLUTELY fair game.

If someone thinks the Earth is 5,000 years old and the "end times" are something to be anticipated, isn't that relevant???

[Johonny]

43. I agree

although I also agree with CNN. Romney's religion doesn't appear to be relevant to understanding the person. Romney appears to believe today whatever he needs to believe to attract the audience he thinks he is speaking to. He doesn't appear to be a person deeply motivated by religious thinking. So I don't care about his religion. Other GOP candidates...

[Selatius]

25. Politics is war by any other means. They made a stink about Obama's religion.

I don't see how Romney would escape the same kind of treatment if we assume all religious denominations are open to ridicule.

[Buns_of_Fire]

28. I doubt I'd vote for a Scientologist for President. A Pastafarian, however...

:thumbsup: My kind of people.

[sakabatou]

30. Ramen

[bowens43]

33. If it was up to me only athiests would be permitted to hold public office.

yes religion is fair game....

[McCamy Taylor]

35. Nope. Not ever.

[awoke_in_2003]

41. I bet they would....

before they would ever vote for an atheist- we always come in last in the polls, behind possible gay or muslim candidates.

[Larry Ogg]

44. Americans typically vote against change as well as their best interest...

Besides the psychopath elites decide who most Americans vote for in our pretend democracy.

And I don't think they would want a Scientologist POTUS cutting in on their action.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

45. I don't care what people believe in - as long as it doesn't affect their actions

To know that, they have to allow their entire past to be opened to scrutiny. If they avoid questions on the subject, as most Republicans tend to do, then yeah, reporters need to dog them incessantly throughout the campaign. Of course Romney or any other candidate who professes to believe in something should be throughly questioned on the subject to know if and how his doctrines could affect his/her decision-making.

[LatteLibertine]

48. IMO

Receiving the truth from a burning bush or from an angel with golden tablets is no more sane.

It's all mythical rot.

One should not have to be; married, straight, religious or wealthy in order to be elected.