Libyan Revolution Week 34 part 3

[joshcryer]

[joshcryer]

1. Libyan Revolution Day 238 updates below, current time in Libya, 3:50am Thursday, October 13

[joshcryer]

2. Libyan city of Sirte on the brink of falling

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/12/libya-sirte-falling-government-forces?newsfeed=true">Libyan city of Sirte on the brink of falling
The Libyan coastal city of Sirte was on the brink of falling to government forces as fighters loyal to the former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi were trapped in a tightening pocket 500 metres wide and twice as long.

The latest gains for the forces of the National Transitional Council (NTC) came as its officials said Gaddafi's son Mutassim, who had been commanding the city's defences, had been captured in a car trying to flee with his family on Tuesday evening and taken to Benghazi for questioning.

News of the capture, which was announced by Colonel Abdullah Naker of the NTC, spread quickly around jubilant government fighters in the area who fired tracer and anti-aircraft rounds into the air to celebrate.

The reported arrest of Mutassim – referred to as "Number 1" on pro-Gaddafi forces radio traffic – underlined the depth of the collapse of Sirte's loyalist defenders in the past week. Mutassim is the first major figure in Gaddafi's inner circle to have been captured by the NTC.

[CJvR]

27. Lets hope...

...it is accurate this time. The Libyans have thrown out optimistic proclamations before that have turned sour.

Still such a small pocket is encouraging, barring abyssmal incompetence it should be over soon, then there is only Bani Walid left.

[pinboy3niner]

3. Hey, first rec! What do I win?

:rofl:

[joshcryer]

5. Wait, we have positive recs? WTF!

I wish I could unrec to fix it! :rofl:

:P

[pinboy3niner]

9. Don't worry

Bu at the least I should have gotten a pony...or a Moammar bobblehead doll.

In fact, I'd rather have the latter. Especially in his 'Where's Waldo?' getup--it would be PERFECT in my car's back window. :)

[joshcryer]

4. Libyan rebels abuse, torture prisoners, rights group says

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/12/2451208/libyan-rebels-abuse-torture-prisoners.html">Libyan rebels abuse, torture prisoners, rights group says
Libyan revolutionary forces are holding more than 2,500 detainees in makeshift prisons where they're subjected to beatings and languish without charges, the human rights advocacy group Amnesty International said Wednesday.

Despite pledges of speedy prosecutions, the National Transitional Council, Libya's provisional authority since the ouster of Moammar Gadhafi, has yet to try any detainees, Amnesty said.

In at least two cases, Amnesty said, officials in charge of detention centers ignored orders that detainees be released.

The failure of Libya's revolutionaries to respect the rights of some of their detainees has been the frequent subject of news stories in the nearly two months since rebel forces seized control of Tripoli, but Amnesty's report, based on visits to 11 revolutionary jails, is the most systematic examination to date of the former rebels' murky and haphazard detention operation.

[joshcryer]

6. Football murder probe opened against Gaddafi's son

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/10/13/idINIndia-59861020111013">Football murder probe opened against Gaddafi's son
Libya's interim leaders have approved a request to open an investigation into Muammar Gaddafi's son Saadi over the murder of a footballer who played for the national team in the 1980s, prosecutor Abdullah Banoun said on Wednesday.

Banoun told people gathered at the player's club for a memorial service that the National Transitional Council (NTC) had agreed the investigation into the murder of former midfielder and coach Basheer Al-Rryani could go ahead.

Al-Rryani was known as 'number nine' because of a law forbidding any players but Saadi Gaddafi, who had a brief career as a soccer player, from being mentioned by name. He was tortured and killed in December 2005.

During the Gaddafi-era there had been no independent judiciary and no attempt had been made to investigate the role of Saadi Gaddafi, who is also the subject of an interpol arrest warrant, the prosecutor said.

Wow, no words. Oligarchs really do think they are above the law.

[pinboy3niner]

7. Libya's Fighting Guitar Heroes

Source: The Atlantic Wire

Photo: Getty Images


Uri Friedman 12:38 PM ET


There's a steady stream of dramatic photos and videos emerging as National Transitional Council forces move ever closer to seizing Muammar Qaddafi's hometown of Sirte and scoring a definitive victory over the ousted Libyan leader's remaining loyalists. But one photo in particular has captivated the international press: a shot--or series of shots--by Aris Messinis of Agence France-Presse showing an unnamed anti-Qaddafi fighter strumming a guitar on Monday in Sirte while bullet casings fly and his fellow soldiers fire their guns around him.

...


In April, the AP ran a story about Massoud Abu Assir, an amateur 38-year-old "Libyan Bob Dylan" whose rock band had split up after his bass player was captured by Qaddafi's forces and his drummer joined rebel fighters. "My homeland will be strong. My homeland will be free," he sang in one performance for rebels on the battlefield outside the city of Ajdabiya. ....


Getty captured Abu Assir singing, guitar and gun slung over the same shoulder, in April:




...


http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/10/libyas-fighting-guitar-heroes/43584/

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

22. I hope that first picture is posed, staged

because it looks a bit silly.

None of them would be able to hear an acoustic guitar after firing automatic rifles, all they'd hear is ringing.

Those with guns would be yelling at Guitar Boy, telling him to put down the f'ing guitar and grab a weapon. Unless, of course, if Guitar Boy is their lieutenant - in that case, he's just as useful holding a guitar :)

Also, the two guys with guns are not in a very good position, exposing themselves to return fire when there's a perfectly good wall to peer and shoot from.

I think the photo is an exercise in creative staging, I doubt if there's any lead or brass flying.

:hi:

[joshcryer]

56. If you click the link you'll see that there is a second picture.

Yes it is real. What's interesting is how many people are focusing on the guitar guy, when the flip-flops guy is doing something even crazier. Ever try to run in flip-flops?

[pinboy3niner]

67. Get that guy some combat boots!

Nobody makes 'combat flip-flops.' I've hiked some terrain where you'd think tennis shoes would be fine--but they're really not fine at all.

In VN, we took the military's jungle boots for granted--but they really were well-designed to stand up to actual combat conditions. I can't imagine trying to operate there in flip-flops. Besides the obvious limitations on ease and speed of movement, medics would be constantly tied up dealing with foot injuries.

But hey, if you can go to war in your wheelchair, anything is possible. :eyes:

[joshcryer]

8. Gadhafi son captured? Rebel reports conflict

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44880832/ns/today-today_news/t/gadhafi-son-captured-rebel-reports-conflict/">Gadhafi son captured? Rebel reports conflict
Moammar Gadhafi's son Mutassim was captured in Sirte trying to escape in a car with a family, one spokesman for Libya's National Transitional Council said Wednesday, but a later report said there was no confirmation of that.

"He was arrested today in Sirte," Col. Abdullah Naker told Reuters on behalf of the council.

Other sources said he was taken to the eastern city of Benghazi, where he was questioned.

But another spokesman for the council in Benghazi, Jalal el-Gallal, said his office had called commanders in the besieged city of Sirte and "so far as we are concerned there is no confirmation that Mutassim Gadhafi has been captured."

IMO this is the NTC playing it cool since the Saif thing. We'll see what happens as time marches on.

[pinboy3niner]

10. It's hard for me to find these threads now

Suddenly, I've lost the color-marking of threads I've visited. Now I wish I'd messaged elad about it earlier. I haven't seen any complaints about this problem on DU, so I guess it's just me and my OS. And it's the same on re-boot.

I may have accidentally hit an F key that caused it--I've done that before, and messed things up royally. In Win7, it's easy to screw up and throw your keyboard into a diferent mode with one wrong strike on an F key.

This is new to me, and I'm looking for a solution (which probably is very simple, but it escapes me for now).

[pinboy3niner]

11. Gaddafi loyalists' last escape route cut off in Sirte

From AJE Live Blog:

Libya's National Transitional Council fighters have reached the costal route in Gaddafi's hometown of Sirte, cutting off the last escape route for loyalists.

Gaddafi combatants are now surrounded in the city and are said to number no more than 2,000.

However, they are still putting up stiff resistance and inflicting casualties.

Al Jazeera's Tony Birtley reports from Sirte (2:43):

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-oct-13-2011-0218

[pinboy3niner]

12. Thanks for the recs

We know this is a controversial issue here, but apart from a pro-revo cast to the OP, this is a news update thread--something that should be valuable to anyone following these developments, whatever their views.

By consolidating news here, we mean this to be a one-stop site for updates on the conflict. We work very hard to provide the latest information on what is happening in Libya--the good, the bad and the ugly.

Thanks again to those who understand and appreciate the value of what we're doing here.

:patriot:

[pinboy3niner]

13. VIDEO: Libyan fighters storming a street in #sirte

@IbnOmar2005

http://t.co/NaEbsDdR Libyan fighters storming a street in #sirte.

http://t.co/NaEbsDdR

[tabatha]

14. Praise the good people of the Sirte Libyan rebels treated them

http://youtu.be/3fcqdXTqiIU
assured the people of the city of Sirte, the Libyan rebels treated them well when they enter the city

[pinboy3niner]

15. It's after 7am in Libya--time for hostilities to resume

I wish to God it weren't so, but some will stupidly make it a fight to the death.

The end is very near.

[pinboy3niner]

16. Libya official: No confirmation Gadhafi son caught

By KIM GAMEL and RAMI AL-SHAHEIBI - Associated Press | AP – 5 hrs ago.


TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) — A Libyan spokesman said Wednesday that revolutionary forces have captured some fighters close to one of Moammar Gadhafi's sons in the fugitive leader's hometown but that he has no information that the son himself has been seized.

Jalal el-Gallal, a spokesman for the National Transitional Council in the eastern city of Benghazi, said his office has called commanders in the besieged city of Sirte and "so far as we are concerned there is no confirmation that Mutassim Gadhafi has been captured."

He was commenting on reports that the son had been seized, which prompted heavy celebratory gunfire in Tripoli and the eastern city of Benghazi.

Anti-Gadhafi fighters have been closing in on armed supporters of the fugitive leader in Sirte, the most important of two major cities yet to be cleared of loyalists more than two months after the fall of Tripoli. Libyan officials have said they believe Mutassim Gadhafi and other high-level former regime figures are hiding in Sirte and that is the reason for the fierce resistance.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/libya-official-no-confirmation-gadhafi-son-caught-225003296.html

[joshcryer]

17. Islamic hard-liners attack rival shrines in Libya

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-10-13/libya-religious-tensions/50750562/1">Islamic hard-liners attack rival shrines in Libya
TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) – Islamic hard-liners have attacked about a half-dozen shrines in and around Tripoli belonging to Muslim sects whose practices they see as sacrilegious, raising religious tensions as Libya struggles to define its identity after Moammar Gadhafi's ouster.

The vandalism has drawn concern at the highest levels as Libya's new rulers seek to reassure the international community that extremists will not gain influence in the North African nation.

Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, head of the governing National Transitional Council, reacted with alarm to reports that graves were being desecrated and appealed to a top Muslim cleric, al-Sadek al-Gheriani, to issue a fatwa, or religious ruling, on the issue.

He also called for restraint. "I ask those destroying these mosques to stop doing that because this is not the time to do that," Abdul-Jalil said Tuesday at a news conference. "What they did is not on the side of the revolution."

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

23. Apres moi, le deluge

Qaddafi may end up beheaded, though not by something as humane as the guillotine that ended Louis' reign.

Keeping a lid on the factions is a whole 'nuther ballgame. I'm guessing NATO/UN will have to get a bit closer to the action.

:hi:

[tabatha]

28. NATO is a military organization. This is a crime issue.

"Apres moi, le deluge" - South Africa had issues after 1994; it still does - it has the one of the highest crime rates in the world, and it was not freed by war but by negotiation. And it had one of the most revered and admired leaders in the world. I did not see NATO or the UN getting involved in South Africa to combat crime.

That does not mean that South Africa should be denied democracy. And there is enough good stuff there to counter the bad.

And I guess you ignore the crime problems in other countries, even this one, to beat the drum of negativity when it comes to Libya.

Anyone who thought there would be no issues is a fool. There were issues under Gaddafi, but he just killed all of those responsible.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

34. You're right. NATO/UN forces are not in South Africa

And if the Libyans attacking mosques are simply criminals, maybe the Libyan provisional government can handle ths situation.

If it's the start of a secondary civil war to establish Shiite or Sunni dominance, then NATO/UN/US forces might be required (at the request of the recently recognized sovereign authorities, of course).

I figured there would be issues. I just don't think the NTC / Provisional Government has the military or police muscle to handle the task.

Speaking of fools, was anyone foolish enough to buy the "Days, not weeks" slogan last spring? Am I more foolish for believing "Years, not months" when applied to NATO/UN/US supporting the rebels or new government? I really hope I'm wrong on that.

:hi:

[tabatha]

35. Agreed

"I figured there would be issues. I just don't think the NTC / Provisional Government has the military or police muscle to handle the task."

If the NTC needs help, they should look to Tunisia or Qatar. Not the UN or NATO. The NTC is adamant about boots on the ground from anywhere, but I do think there is the potential for good cooperation with Tunisia. They are already doing that over their border.

I think the genuine intention and assessment was "Days, not weeks" - they did not count on Gaddafi's heels digging in to the extent that they did. This is obvious even in Sirte. What are they fighting for?

I think NATO wants out, really badly. However, if something bad or harmful to the Libyans appears, then they have no choice.

[joshcryer]

55. Wow, that's pretty messed up.

If it's the start of a secondary civil war to establish Shiite or Sunni dominance, then NATO/UN/US forces might be required

You do realize that practically all of Libya is Sunni right? Sufism is a subset, there is no radical divide, and it is commonly practiced. Again we're seeing reports being touted as some sort of signifier of a protracted involvement when it's simply not the case.

[tabatha]

58. Yep, messed up because those who know nothing want to criticize.

[joshcryer]

18. Libya's rival military commanders fight war of words

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/13/world/africa/libya-rival-commanders/">Libya's rival military commanders fight war of words
After emerging from the rubble of Moammar Gadhafi's Baba az' Azia palace late in August, Abdul Hakim Belhaj seized control as the military commander of Tripoli.

An Islamist who had taken little public part in the spring uprising against Gadhafi, he claimed his soldiers had won the symbolic battle for the palace, the heart of the Libyan strongman's regime. By taking control of Tripoli, Belhaj gained authority over a third of the country's population and a major slice of its wealth.

It was a power play that other opposition fighters bitterly resented.

Abdullah Naker, one of several rival commanders, claims his fighters endured far tougher and more significant battles than the siege of Gadhafi's palace, not least the struggle to win control of Tripoli's main international airport that lasted several days.

[joshcryer]

19. Tripoli celebrates capture of Gaddafi's son

http://www.eyewitnessnews.co.za/Story.aspx?Id=75667">Tripoli celebrates capture of Gaddafi's son
Celebratory bursts of gunfire and fireworks lit up the skies over Tripoli early on Thursday as word spread that Libyan government fighters had captured Muammar Gaddafi's son Mo'tassim in Sirte.

...

National Transitional Council (NTC) officials told Reuters Mo'tassim was captured on Wednesday after he tried to escape the battle-torn city in a car with a family.

...

"Now we have one Gaddafi," shouted Mohammed, a 23-year-old engineer, who, despite it being banned in Libya, swigged from a bottle of alcohol with three friends. "Soon we will have the old man Gaddafi and all the Gaddafis."

"But fair trial, fair trial," said his friends.

This still hasn't been confirmed by mainstream outlets (edit: just came down, Reuters appears to believe it's legit), so we'll see if they're celebrating for nothing or what soon enough.

[joshcryer]

20. WRAPUP 2-Gaddafi's son captured in Libya's Sirte - NTC (Reuters only ones reporting this)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/13/libya-idUSL5E7LD01M20111013">WRAPUP 2-Gaddafi's son captured in Libya's Sirte - NTC
Libyan government fighters have captured have Muammar Gaddafi's son Mo'tassim as he tried to escape the battle-torn city of Sirte, National Transitional Council (NTC) officials told Reuters.

The capture of the deposed leader's national security adviser, and the first member of the Gaddafi family, is a big boost to Libya's new rulers whose forces are still battling pro-Gaddafi fighters in his home town of Sirte.

"He was arrested today in Sirte," Colonel Abdullah Naker told Reuters on Wednesday. Other NTC sources said Mo'tassim was taken to Benghazi where he was questioned at the Boatneh military camp where he is being held. He was uninjured but exhausted.

Hundreds of NTC fighters took to the streets in several Libyan cities and fired shots in the air in celebration.

[joshcryer]

21. Libya tour operators eye post-war boom for neglected industry

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=20001:libya-tour-operators-eye-post-war-boom-for-neglected-industry&catid=49:National%20Security&Itemid=115">Libya tour operators eye post-war boom for neglected industry
A holiday in Libya may sound like an absurdity now, but many of the country's tour operators and officials are already starting to predict a bright future for the travel industry once the dust of war settles.

The coastal country has all the makings for a vibrant tourism business, they say: warm weather, beaches, antiquities and proximity to Europe -- all factors that helped the industry thrive in neighbouring Egypt and Tunisia.

...

One company, Sherwes Travel, already advertises a three-day, 295-euro tour of "post-war Libya" on its website, featuring visits to sites in Tripoli and to the Roman ruins of Leptis Magna. Employees admit it may be a bit optimistic.

"The tour was very popular, actually. But not now, not yet," said Ibrahim Usta, the company's self-described international customer assistant. He said while some potential visitors had been in touch, it was not yet possible to bring them to Libya.

I'm planning a trip in a few years, after things have stabilized a bit and the Libyan people are receiving the oil funds as the constitution mandates.

[pinboy3niner]

24. NTC fighters pull back under heavy fire in Sirte

From The Guardian's Live Blog:

Fighters from the new government had hoped to take Sirte today, but they were forced to retreat under heavy fire from Gaddafi loyalists according to AFP.

"We have been told to retreat to the police HQ and will be using artillery cannon to hit Gaddafi's forces," fighter Hamid Neji told the agency.

We've been trying to reach Peter Beaumont in the city, but he has been having difficulty getting through. The only place Peter can get a phone reception is where there is also a danger of gunfire. He spoke briefly to a colleague to confirm that Gaddafi loyalists are putting up stronger resistance in Sirte today.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/13/libya-mutassim-gaddafi-reported-arrested-live-updates#block-21

[pinboy3niner]

25. Military commander in Sirte denies reports of Mutassim's capture

From AJE Live Blog:

A senior military commander inside Sirte said on Thursday that Motassim remained on the run, denying reports that he was in custody.

"It is not true that Motassim was captured," said Wesam Bin Hamid, brigade commander of the Martyrs of Free Libya Brigade, one of the new regime's main units inside Gaddafi's hometown.

"But some prisoners we have captured are saying that Gaddafi is in Sirte," Bin Hamid added.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-oct-13-2011-1211

[pinboy3niner]

26. Eni reopens gas pipeline from Libya to Italy

By COLLEEN BARRY, AP Business Writer

Thursday, October 13, 2011


(AP) - The Eni oil company reopened the Greenstream natural gas pipeline connecting Libya and Italy on Thursday for the first time in eight months.

Eni said it will run initial tests of 3 million cubic meters worth of gas a day during the preliminary phase, but could not immediately say how long that would be.

Greenstream transported 9 billion cubic meters worth of gas a year to Italy before fighting in Libya forced Eni to shut down the pipeline in February. That's about 12 percent of Italy's annual needs.

Eni called the restart of Greenstream "a milestone." Eni operates Greenstream with the Libya's state-rung National Oil Corporation.

The gas is being produced by the Wafa field, around 500 kilometers (300 miles) southeast of Tripoli. Eni said the field continued to produce gas during the conflict to make electricity for local consumption.

More: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/10/13/financial/f063857D83.DTL

[pinboy3niner]

29. Reports of Mutassim Gaddafi's arrest in Sirte questioned by some NTC figures

Matthew Weaver and Lizzy Davies post on The Guardian's Live Blog:

Reports of Mutassim Gaddafi's arrest in Sirte have been questioned by several leading NTC figures. Jalal el-Gallal, a spokesman for the NTC in Benghazi, told AP that "so far as we are concerned there is no confirmation that Muatassim Gadhafi has been captured." Guma el-Gamaty told the Guardian he did not believe the report was accurate. But Reuters remains convinced that Mutassim was arrested while trying to flee the coastal city.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/13/libya-mutassim-gaddafi-reported-arrested-live-updates#block-25

[tabatha]

31. It has been denied by Jalil.

This is the second time that Reuters has reported false information.

[Iterate]

30. Video essay: At the Front in Libya's Revolution (Oct. 13)

Video essay by Raul Gallego Abellan

The Associated Press is at the front to document Libyan Revolutionary forces attempt to take one of the last Pro-Gaddafi cities left in the country, Bani Walid.
http://youtu.be/akPzmLb8QJw

Dated today, but it refers to the events of several weeks ago.

[pinboy3niner]

32. Die-hard Gaddafi loyalists in last ditch Libya battle

By Rania El Gamal and Tim Gaynor

SIRTE, Libya | Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:22pm EDT


SIRTE, Libya (Reuters) - Fighters loyal to Muammar Gaddafi fought a last-ditch battle in an ever shrinking pocket of resistance in the ousted leader's hometown Sirte on Thursday.

National Transitional Council (NTC) commanders moved up tanks to fire at buildings from close range to try to dislodge the remaining Gaddafi snipers who are now surrounded on all sides in one small part of the city.

"We have control of the whole of the city except neighborhood 'Number Two' where the Gaddafi forces are surrounded," said Khaled Alteir, a field commander in Sirte.

...


"We've noticed now they are fighting every man for himself," said Baloun Al Sharie, a field commander. "We tried to tell them it's enough and to give themselves up, but they would not."


More w/ video (1:15):
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/13/us-libya-idUSL5E7KT4YC20111013

[pinboy3niner]

33. Fighting rages in Sirte; Gadhafi's son's arrest unconfirmed--CNN

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

• Moatassim Gadhafi was reportedly captured in Sirte

• But the National Transitional Council gave no official confirmation

• Battles are still raging in Sirte

• A new report documents widespread abuse of Gadhafi loyalists

By the CNN Wire Staff

updated 12:46 PM EST, Thu October 13, 2011


Sirte, Libya (CNN) -- Libya's National Transitional Council offered no official confirmation Thursday of the arrest of Moatassim Gadhafi, one of the deposed leader's sons believed to have been captured after a four-hour firefight in Sirte.

Abdallah Naker, the head of the Tripoli Revolutionary Council, said Moatassim Gadhafi was arrested, but the National Transitional Council was not announcing it for security reasons.

Naker cited field commanders in Sirte as his sources for the arrest, but two senior council spokesmen said the report was unconfirmed and a third reportedly denied the claim.

Ali Tarhouni, Libya's interim deputy prime minister and oil minister, dismissed the importance of the arrest.

...


http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/13/world/africa/libya-war/index.html?section=cnn_latest

[pinboy3niner]

36. Libya to investigate 'every penny' in oil graft probe

By Simon Martelli | AFP – 46 minutes ago


Libya's new government vowed on Thursday to investigate "every penny" of suspicious oil contracts signed under the former regime, responsible for what it described as "unbelievable" corruption.

"Any corruption under the previous regime will be investigated... There will be specialised committees that will look into all these contracts and agreements starting with the oil sector," the National Transitional Council's oil and finance minister, Ali Tarhuni, told a news conference in Tripoli.

He did not give details of specific contracts or companies under suspicion and said that, due to the ongoing conflict, the investigation had yet to begin.

Tarhuni said the NTC would publish details of past contracts at the end of next week, and promised to turn a leaf on the practices of Moamer Kadhafi's regime.

"There was an unbelievable amount of corruption. What the size of this corruption was is the question. We will investigate every penny openly and transparently," the minister insisted, adding the interests of Libya's people would be paramount in future contractual negotiations.

...


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/libya-investigate-every-penny-oil-probe-172314706.html

[pinboy3niner]

37. Pro-soldiers fighting back in Sirte but they have no where to go; new NTC advance up coast road

Audio report from The Guardian's Peter Beaumont in Sirte, who reports a new advance by NTC fighters up the coast road (4:18):

Pro-soldiers fighting back in Sirte but they have no where to go, Peter Beaumont reports #Libya

http://audioboo.fm/boos/504230-pro-soldiers-fighting-back-in-sirte-but-they-have-no-where-to-go-peter-beaumont-reports-libya

[tabatha]

38. Alleged mercenaries arrested, held in Sirte

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xlo1le_alleged-mercenaries-arrested-held-in-sirte_news

[Iterate]

39. Libyans battle to protect ancient treasures from looting

By Nic Robertson, CNN
October 13, 2011 -- Updated 1519 GMT (2319 HKT)

Benghazi, Libya (CNN) -- Walking along the tree-lined gravel track towards one of the Roman Empire's greatest architectural legacies, little can prepare you for what you are about to experience.

As you emerge from the shade of the tall poplars the towering stone edifice that guards Leptis Magna's approaches appears. It is simultaneously stunning and evocative. Like a blow to the sternum, it quickens the heart.

Septimus Severus's gate, a tribute to the Roman emperor responsible for much of what remains today, stands astride great Roman roadways.

Severus, like the country's most recent modern day ruler Moammar Gadhafi, spent lavishly on his hometown transforming it reputedly into the third greatest city in Africa, rivaling Carthage and Alexandria.

more... http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/13/world/africa/libya-benghazi-theft/index.html

video report: http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2011/10/13/robertson-libya-saved-ruins.cnn

[pinboy3niner]

40. 19 killed in Syria clashes, EU slaps sanctions

AFP – 1 hr 12 mins ago


The Syrian army met armed resistance in two towns on Thursday, with activists reporting 19 killed in clashes, as the EU decided on a new set of sanctions on President Bashar al-Assad's regime.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, updating an earlier toll, said 10 people were killed in Banash town in Idlib province in the northwest.

"The Syrian army backed by tanks and armoured troop carriers launched an assault this morning on the town of Banash and clashes took place with armed men who were apparently dissidents," the rights group said.

...


In Brussels, the European Union decided to freeze the assets of the Commercial Bank of Syria, in a new set of sanctions over the regime's brutal crackdown on protesters, diplomats said.

"Today's decision is a direct consequence of the appalling and brutal campaign the Syrian regime is waging against its own people," said EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/dissident-groups-clash-syrian-army-151903210.html

[pinboy3niner]

41. Battle for Libyan city exposes Gaddafi decadence

Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:23pm GMT


By Tim Gaynor

SIRTE, Libya Oct 13 (Reuters) - When Libyan government fighters seized the vacant home of Muammar Gaddafi's daughter, Aisha, the wealth and opulence they found sent some of them into a rage.

...


Alongside the fierce fighting in the streets, the battle for the city of Sirte has also been a collision between two parts of Libyan society.

One the one side is the pro-Gaddafi elite, many of them members of Gaddafi's tribe or extended family who benefited from his largesse and lived in his home-town of Sirte, a showpiece of his 42-year rule.

One the other side, the ordinary people who -- while not poor by regional standards -- only saw a small share of Libya's huge energy wealth.

As forces with the National Transitional Council (NTC) fight their way into Sirte and take control of more of the city, they have been confronted with the reality of how their rulers lived.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LD35320111013?sp=true

[Iterate]

42. NATO helicopter lands to pick up an independent Libya flag from a little girl

NATO helicopter lands to pick up an independent Libya flag from a little girl
http://youtu.be/Yg3MRVJXiEM

Article:
Almost unbelievable but true: a French Tiger helicopter lands on a Libyan beach to pick up a Free Libya flag October 13, 2011
http://cencio4.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/tiger-beach/

[joshcryer]

54. What did I just see? That was crazy!

And that little girl has a heart of gold! Damn! It's like "Oh, look! A NATO helicopter! Let's give it the flag!"

[pinboy3niner]

43. LIBYAN REVOLUTION DAY 239: CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 12:01 AM FRIDAY, OCTOBER 14

Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, UTC +1 hour, GMT +2 hours

[Iterate]

44. Gaddafi and the Tuareg, the "Lords of the desert"

Gaddafi and the Tuareg, the "Lords of the desert"
Hugh Brody, 8 October 2011

Over the past weeks, the Tuareg (at times spelled Touareg) have appeared again and again as the most reliable allies of Gaddafi and his family, fighting against the Libyan revolution, giving their protection to him and his closest entourage as they hide deep in the Sahara, offering guides and escorts for those who have been making their way through remote corners of the desert to find sanctuary in Niger. The Tuareg know the desert as no one else can. This is what we gather from the recent news stories in which they have been appearing. A tribe of the Sahara, whose deep understanding of that fierce and mysterious landscape can offer a profound, ineffable secrecy and safety to Gaddafi himself. They are the indigenous people of a terrain in which no others could live, or even find their way – this is the quite reasonable implication of the recent news stories in which they have figured.

So we find ourselves thinking, or are invited to think: the magic of the tribal world seems to be available to the deposed tyrant. Those who follow the news but know very little of these mysterious tribesmen of the Sahara can find themselves wondering if the Tuareg are the simple, unquestioning beneficiaries of some kind of corrupt generosity, and thus deluded into saving the skins of the Gaddafis. Wondering, too, if we can forgive them for this because they are the children of the desert, the wild people of a wild place.

The images that these snippets of news from the immense and arid border between Libya, Algeria, Mali and Niger evoke, and the questions they prompt, grow from a familiar dichotomy: the simple, primitive, traditional (these all become words for the same thing) are duped, or bribed, into giving their support to the sophisticated, civilized, modern (and these are words for the opposite thing). We can see in our minds’ eyes the nomads of the desert, with their camels and skin tents, living in an ancient harmony with their arid, rather terrifying environment. And see, also, the Gaddafi gang: despots and plunderers who are now having to take their leave of the complex luxuries and brutal politics of privilege and power in an oil-rich nation state. The weather-beaten camel herders, used to a life close to the desert, living in the fascinating harmonies of indigenous peoples; the Arab potentates escaping in their convoys of 4 by 4s, armed to the teeth, hauling their looted millions with them. A compelling contrast. The tribal and the civilized. A version of the nature:culture dyad, perhaps, underpinned, as it often is, with a moral opposition: a natural and aboriginal entity that we are quick to think of as inherently good alongside that which is inherently wicked.

For those who care about the tribal, who support and take inspiration from indigenous culture and ways of life, this conjunction of the Tuareg and Gaddafi is profoundly troubling. There are different sources of upset, various lines of upset questioning. Have the trusting Tuareg been tricked, bribed or blackmailed into providing their support? Or: is theirs such a naivety and lack of understanding of the wider world that Tuareg tribesmen and women just do not know when they are dealing with the devil? Or is there something about the tribal world that makes it susceptible to this kind of exploitation and possible corruption?

more... http://www.opendemocracy.net/hugh-brody/gaddafi-and-tuareg-lords-of-desert

This article has its shortcomings, but in the end even a flawed puzzle piece helps.

[Iterate]

45. Making sense of the chaos in Libya's prisons

Making sense of the chaos in Libya's prisons
13 October 2011 Last updated at 14:18 GMT


Al-Judaida prison is currently run by volunteers

In the chaotic fallout from Col Muammar Gaddafi's ousting as Libya leader, allegations have swirled that the country's prisons have become hotbeds of abuse and injustice. The BBC's Caroline Hawley in Tripoli meets one civilian who is determined to buck the apparent trend.

Fifty-five-year old Taher Husnein used to live in the Californian city of Sacramento, where he sold cars and volunteered as a Muslim chaplain in jail. Now he runs al-Judaida, one of the biggest prisons in the Libyan capital.

And, in the political and security vacuum that persists in Libya, he is doing it as a volunteer.

Since he turned up at the jail last month and began running it - in an ad-hoc arrangement - he and the men working with him have received no wages.

"I want to help build the new Libya," he says.

more, with video report... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15293899

[upi402]

47. No wages?

Still, better than a jail run by a tyrant's favorites.

[tabatha]

48. They have been trying very hard to get assets unfrozen.

The problem with Libya is that the biggest money earner is oil. There was very little produced during the conflict.

That is one of the things that Jibril said - they have to start planning for different revenue streams for when oil run out in about 20 years.

[tabatha]

46. AU better without 'intimidating' Gaddafi - Zuma

Pretoria - The African Union will work better without Libya's ousted leader Muammar Gaddafi, who repeatedly tried to convince members to form a pan-African government, President Jacob Zuma said on Thursday.

"The African Union will have more time to implement its programmes now, because Colonel Gaddafi spent a lot of time discussing a unity government for Africa that was impossible to implement now," Zuma said in a foreign policy speech.

"He was in a hurry for this, possibly because he wanted to head it up himself," Zuma added.

"I had arguments with him about it several times. The African Union will work better now without his delaying it and with some members no longer feeling as intimidated by him as they did."

http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/AU-will-work-better-without-Gaddafi-Zuma-20111013

[tabatha]

49. Libya needs a truth and reconciliation commission.

Libya needs a truth and reconciliation commission
'De-Ba'athification' was disastrous in Iraq. Libyans must choose how far to purge public life of those linked to the old regime.


Libya's NTC prime minister, Mahmoud Jibril, has come under fire over his former allegiance to the Gaddafi regime. Photograph: Li Muzi/Xinhua Press/Corbis

The most contentious popular debate in post-Gaddafi Libya concerns the role that former regime officials and government bureaucrats should be allowed to play in public life. As the last resistance crumbles in Sirte, successfully resolving this issue is key to social harmony and economic viability.

The debate has echoes of Iraq in 2003 when Paul Bremer, US pro-consul at the time, began a process aimed at removing all former members of Saddam Hussein's Ba'ath party from public life – particularly from the military, schools, the oil ministry and the civil service. Most experts agree that Bremer's broad and rigorous implementation of "de-Ba'athification" was the worst decision taken by the Bush administration in Iraq. It significantly hindered rebuilding of the economy while simultaneously fuelling sectarian grievances.

Although Libya under the Colonel had no government party equivalent to the Ba'ath, Gaddafi's ideology and cronies nonetheless infused the governance apparatus, determining its structure and functions. The most crucial difference with post-Saddam Iraq is that Libyans rather than foreign occupiers will decide how far they wish to purge society of anyone connected with the previous regime.

Currently, this issue divides Libyans along class, regional, tribal and educational lines. Fighters and the previously disfranchised – such as the young, unemployed and minorities – tend to advocate a high degree of "de-Ba'athification" whereas the wealthy, the highly educated and tribes favoured by Gaddafi prefer less extensive purging.

On a recent visit to Mellitah Oil and Gas Company in Tripoli, we learned that some members of the management had been unceremoniously ejected by the employees. Additionally, verbal clashes occurred at meetings of the Tripoli Chamber of Commerce and Libyan Businessmen's Council as the new guard accused the old guard of being opportunists who switched allegiance to the rebels for personal gain.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/13/libya-truth-and-reconciliation-commission

[Distant Observer]

50. This is disgusting after destroying all resistance. The AU proposed this before all the killing.

Certain war propagandists kept justifying continuing the war to the bloody, murderous, torturous end.

[ellisonz]

51. Got a credible link?

I don't recall any AU proposal that Gaddafi agreed too that had him, his family, and his cohort relinquishing power. Otherwise you're just talking out of your heine.

"God, Muammar, and Libya" :rofl:

[tabatha]

52. I have heard this proposed many times before. T&C

All I heard about Gaddafi, is that he wanted a position like the Queen of England. And that he wanted to rule over all of Africa.

BTW, the AU has also woken up to the fact that it is better off without Gaddafi who was "intimidating".

Oh, and by the way, the only resistance was in Bani Walid and Sirte - and even in Bani Walid the citizens wanted the FF to control their city.

[tabatha]

57. Zuma of South Africa

4Adam Adam
Zuma of South Africa to france24 "The AU will work better without Gaddafi" "he wanted to head the AU" "now we feel better without him" #wtf
3 hours ago

Maybe this is why the AU did not push hard enough in their various negotiations - they were secretly hoping he would be defeated. But they could not say anything, because if Gaddafi had won, then they would have been killed.

[Distant Observer]

62. Bizzare. How could anyone think that Gaddafi could beat the whole Western military might

Or go around "killing all," after being in a box for over 2 decades.
These are fantasies of propaganda-addled minds.

[tabatha]

64. Who is talking about the whole Western military might?

I don't understand your comment.

[ellisonz]

53. AJE: Gaddafi Fighters in Sirte Surrounded

3 hours 46 min ago - Libya

Muammar Gaddafi’s loyalists now control just one small area of the city. It is thought there are around 2,000 fighters left there.

They have been pushed back as the frontline has moved in recent days. But they are still offering strong resistance, and NTC forces even had to draw back slightly on Thursday because of heavy shelling.



http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

They have no rational choice but to surrender - continuing to fight is hopeless and pointless.

[pinboy3niner]

59. Libya war reaches endgame with 100 loyalists left fighting

Sirte stronghold edges close to falling with pro-Gaddafi troops stranded as rebels prepare to declare total victory

Peter Beaumont in Sirte
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 13 October 2011 15.23 EDT

...


A street corner where, on Wednesday, it had been possible to walk and stare into a narrow canyon of shattered buildings, was at the centre of the battle. Instead of walking, one had to crawl as the pockets of defenders fired RPGs into buildings and at cars.

In response government fighters pulled back a little and brought in tanks, placing them on a low, grassy rise crowned with a shattered white pavilion, from where they could blast directly into the rooftop positions, setting fires, nibbling away at the concrete, filling the air with noise and dust.

For the pro-Gaddafi fighters it is a hopeless situation. There is nowhere to go except further into an area of the city 750 metres wide by 500 metres deep that runs along the coast from the television station – with its pair of wrecked and punctured dishes – to the edge of District Two, overlooked by the pavilion and its sagging roof.

...


"I want to ask him how many of them are left. I've just come from speaking to another captive. A Sudanese. He said there were few left and most were wearing green uniforms. We're fighting the real soldiers now, not the mercenaries. He said some were trying to escape."

...


As evening approached the dynamic of the stalled fighting seemed to change. An advance by government forces through an area of houses on the coast pushed from east to west beyond a tall aerial. Out of sight beyond a flooded series of streets it was possible to measure the progress only by smoke and by the sounds of the truck-mounted anti-aircraft guns and the explosions of tank fire and the recoilless rifles moving – it appeared – inexorably into the pocket.

...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/13/libya-war-endgame-loyalists-sirte

[ellisonz]

60. Gaddafi is being tracked in south Libya by satellite.

2 hours 49 min ago - Libya

Abdul Hafeedh Ghoga, the vice-chairman of the National Transitional Council, told Al Jazeera that satellites are tracking the former Libyan leader in the desert south of Sabha and that it is only a matter of time before Gaddafi is captured.

"We have confirmed reports that Gaddafi is in the southern Libyan desert. He’s not staying in one place. He is moving around with a small convoy which consist of his closest aids and bodyguards."

Ghoga added that the fighters' priority now is to take full control of Sirte. "Once the liberation of Sirte has been achieved – our fighters will track down Gaddafi himself."

Click here to read more.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

[tabatha]

61. Gaddafi's gold-plated chair from Sirte, is now in Misrata.

Gaddafi's gold-plated chair from Sirte, is now in Misrata. It's on display in the 'Martyr Ali Hassan AlJaber Gallery' on Tripoli St.

[tabatha]

63. A report on the weapons caches set up by the Gaddafi regime around the area Waden

freedomgroupTV Freedom Group
A report on the weapons caches set up by the Gaddafi regime around the area Waden in Fazzan, and the chemical... fb.me/u2uX7lZe

http://youtu.be/14XOji91ASw

[ellisonz]

65. AJA: Tunisia to extradite fmr. Libyan Prime Minister

1 hour 30 min ago - Libya

Al Jazeera Arabic reports that Tunisia will extradite a key figure under the fugitive leader Muammar Gaddafis regime to Tripoli shortly.

Mustafa Abdul Jalil, head of the Libyan National Transitional Council said that al-Baghdadi al-Mahmudi, the former Libyan prime minister will be extradited.

Speaking at a joint press conference with Tunisian prime minister al-Baji Qaed al-Sabsi in Benghazi, Abdul Jalil cited an agreement signed by the two countries authorising the extradition of fugitives and criminals, which applies to al-Mahmudi’s case.

Abdul Jalil, has expressed gratitude to Tunisia’s stance in supporting the Libyan revolution, saying the Tunisian revolution was a source of inspiration to the Arab people in their uprising against dictators.

For his part, al-Sabsi, who arrived in Libya in a short visit on Wednesday, has reaffirmed that the two countries were linked by historical connections. The tow countries would be working to maintain bilateral relations in line with the Tunisian people’s support to the just cause of the Libyan people, he added.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

[pinboy3niner]

66. UK tightens arms export controls after Arab Spring

Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:27pm GMT

• New system to allow immediate suspension of arms export licences

• Government censured over arms exports to North Africa, Middle East

• PM criticised for February Gulf trip with defence company executives

• MPs say policy of boosting arms exports at odds with human rights


By Adrian Croft


LONDON, Oct 13 (Reuters) - Britain will tighten its arms export rules so it can swiftly halt sales of weapons, ammunition and tear gas to countries where there has been a sharp deterioration in security, the government said on Thursday.

The move is a response to criticism during the Arab Spring uprisings that Britain had recently approved the export of crowd control equipment that could have been used against demonstrators in countries such as Libya and Bahrain.

Prime Minister David Cameron faced censure for a trip in February to the Gulf on which he was joined by executives from defence companies and other businesses.

...


Britain said in February it was revoking more than 50 arms export licences -- including tear gas and ammunition licences -- for Bahrain and Libya whose security forces were at that time cracking down on protests, killing and wounding demonstrators.

...


The committee's report highlighted a potential conflict of interest between the coalition government's goal of boosting British manufactured exports, including weapon sales, and its commitment to uphold human rights.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LD3IM20111013?sp=true

[al bupp]

68. Guardian: Peter Beaumont audio on friendly fire incident in Sirte

Several killed in "horrendous" friendly fire incident in Sirte, Peter Beaumont reports #Libya http://audioboo.fm/boos/505448

Apparently a mortar round hit a congregation of militia.

[al bupp]

69. UK operations over Libya continue

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/UkOperationsOverLibyaContinue.htm">From UK Ministry of Defense

A Military Operations news article
14 Oct 11
Royal Navy ships and Royal Air Force aircraft have continued operations this week to help safeguard the Libyan people as part of NATO's Operation UNIFIED PROTECTOR.

Yesterday afternoon, an armed reconnaissance patrol of RAF Tornado GR4s was alerted by another NATO surveillance platform to the presence of three former Gaddafi regime armed trucks hidden beneath trees to the east of Bani Walid.

The vehicles were successfully engaged by our aircraft, using Paveway guided bombs, and destroyed.

On Wednesday, RAF aircraft formed part of NATO's continuous armed reconnaissance presence over the disputed cities of Sirte and Bani Walid.

During the course of the afternoon they succeeded in identifying a pick-up truck, armed with an anti-aircraft artillery piece, in use by Colonel Gaddafi's remaining troops in Bani Walid. A Brimstone missile, launched from a Tornado GR4, scored a direct hit on the vehicle and left it ablaze.

Three hours later, a similar patrol over Sirte was tasked to engage a second such armed vehicle which a NATO surveillance asset had spotted. Once again, a direct hit from a Brimstone missile destroyed the vehicle outright.

In the early hours of Monday morning, two formations of RAF Tornado GR4s mounted a strike on a missile depot still held by Colonel Gaddafi's forces near Bani Walid. Our aircraft dropped seven Paveway laser and GPS guided bombs, scoring direct hits which inflicted very severe damage on the facility.

At sea, HMS Bangor is currently conducting maritime security patrols off Misurata, helping maintain confidence in the safe movement of merchant vessels to and from Libya's ports as the new authorities work hard at restoring normal commercial operations.

With her advanced minehunting equipment, Bangor is very well suited to identifying and neutralising any legacy threats from Colonel Gaddafi's regime, such as the abandoned mine and torpedo which she located and destroyed on the seabed off Tobruk earlier this month.

UK missions over Libya are undertaken as part of NATO's Operation UNIFIED PROTECTOR to enforce United Nations Security Council Resolutions 1970 and 1973 and protect Libyan civilians at risk of attack.

UK forces currently deployed on this operation include:

RAF Tornado GR4 aircraft based at Gioia del Colle in Italy
RAF VC10 and TriStar air-to-air refuelling tankers based in Sicily and the UK
RAF Sentry and Sentinel surveillance aircraft based in Italy
HMS Liverpool (Type 42 destroyer)
HMS Bangor (Sandown Class minehunter)
RAF air transport aircraft provide extensive logistic support to the deployed bases in Italy, Sicily and the Sovereign Base Areas in Cyprus.

© Crown Copyright/MOD followed by the year (e.g. © Crown Copyright/MOD 2007)

[al bupp]

70. Bangladesh has recognized the NTC

@FromJoanne
Joanne Leo #Bangladesh has recognized the #NTC of #Libya
27 minutes ago via web

[al bupp]

71. Reuters: Libya government tanks try to end Sirte resistance

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/14/us-libya-idUSL5E7KT4YC20111014

By Rania El Gamal and Tim Gaynor
SIRTE, Libya | Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:37am EDT

(Reuters) - Libyan government forces pushed tanks deep into the city of Sirte on Friday to try to smash the last pocket of resistance by loyalists of ousted leader Muammar Gaddafi in his home town.

The mostly untrained militia army of the National Transitional Council (NTC) has gradually tightened its strangle-hold around Sirte for weeks in a chaotic struggle that has cost scores of lives and left thousands homeless.

It has also held up the attempt by Libya's new leaders to try to build a democratic government, as they say the process will begin only after the city is captured.

NTC commanders say Gaddafi's die-hard loyalists now only control an area measuring about 700 meters (yards) north to south, and around 1.5 km east to west in a residential neighborhood mostly of apartment blocks.

[al bupp]

72. CNN: Report on Gadhafi's home in Sirte and state of Ibn Sina hospital

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/14/world/africa/libya-war/">Gadhafi's once opulent house lies in ruins

By the CNN Wire Staff
October 14, 2011 -- Updated 1342 GMT (2142 HKT)

Sirte, Libya (CNN) -- On the outskirts of Sirte, a mansion with a columned facade lies in ruins, though its opulence is still evident under shattered glass and chunks of concrete. This was Moammar Gadhafi's home in the city of his birth.

The house had its own salon with barber chairs and massage tables. Ornate four-poster beds furnished the bedrooms and there were lavish decorations all around.

...

Medicins Sans Frontieres (MSF or in English, Doctors Without Borders) said some of Sirte's residents remain trapped in the fighting. The medical charity said it has been able to work at the Ibn Sina hospital. from where the International Committee of the Red Cross is evacuating patients to Tripoli.

The 50 remaining patients are mostly people who have suffered violent trauma, severe burns and fractures, according to MSF. Almost all patients need daily dressing and immediate medical care. There are also some pregnant women in the hospital.

[Iterate]

73. Gaddafi loyalists and Libya NTC trade fire in Tripoli

Gaddafi loyalists and Libya NTC trade fire in Tripoli
14 October 2011 Last updated at 14:48 GMT

Between 20 and 50 armed supporters of Libya's fugitive leader Col Muammar Gaddafi are fighting forces from Libya's interim government on the streets of Tripoli.

The two sides exchanged fire in the Abu Salim district of the capital.

Col Gaddafi was ousted in August when troops from the National Transitional Council (NTC) took control of Tripoli.

Gaddafi loyalists still hold parts of the city of Sirte and the desert enclave of Bani Walid.

more... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15311520

ETA: People know about the remnants of the Gaddafi army at Sirte and Bani Walid, but sometimes forget that there are several smaller armed Gaddafi forces, including the Badr group of about 900 active near the Tunisian border and near Zuwara, plus several smaller cells of 25-50 active south of Tripoli and near Sabha.

GihanTadreft Gihan Badi
Alj: #Libya, a smoke coming from #AbuSalim area in #Tripoli The sound of gunfire & heavy weapon being fired was heard in the neighbourhood.
10 minutes ago

@ChangeInLibya
Ismael Zmirli Some people love to blow things out of proportion. The only "clashes" are in #Abuslim - 4 pro-G arrested including women shooting at FF

A note on sources. The pro-Gaddafi social media warriors have been trying their hand lately at reposting old green video as new events. It's so lame as to be comical, but that doesn't stop the yup-yups from cheering. They're all turning lunatic, with mathaba extolling a new inland empire, and Morris Herman claiming an Iranian-Hezbola-Israeli conspiracy that's so complex he can't understand it. Small wonder.

[al bupp]

75. Reuters: UPDATE 1-govt and pro-Gaddafi forces fight in Tripoli

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LE27J20111014

Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:26pm GMT

TRIPOLI Oct 14 (Reuters) - A gunbattle broke out in the Libyan capital Tripoli on Friday between 20 to 50 armed supporters of deposed leader Muammar Gaddafi and forces of the National Transitional Council (NTC), a Reuters witness and residents said.

NTC fighters in pick-up trucks raced towards the scene in the Abu Salim neighbourhood, a centre of support for Gaddafi. The two sides exchanged automatic and heavy machinegun fire, the Reuters witness said.

...

NTC fighters said fighting had also broken out in the nearby Hadhba neighbourhood.

...

Gaddafi has released a number of audio recordings calling on loyalists to fight the new government which ousted him from power when its forces captured Tripoli two months ago.

"I urge all Libyan people to go out and march in their millions in all the squares, in all the cities and villages and oases," he said in one such message earlier this month.

I concur in regards to the flood of tweets claiming that this marks the start of a huge loyalist uprising against the NTC.

I like this tweet in reply:

Marevostrum Marevostrum
20-30 Gaddafists fight in Abu Slim. Where are the other 999,970 from the Million Man march? #Libya
45 minutes ago

[tabatha]

76. and this tweet

Following the fighting in Abu Slim, Muammar Gaddafi's sequel to the Green Book has been announced;
"How to Fight a Guerrilla War and Lose it in Ten Minutes"

[al bupp]

74. BBC: Gaddafi loyalists on Libya's western border

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15311520

14 October 2011 Last updated at 10:48 ET

Gaddafi loyalists have also appeared on Libya's western border with Tunisia, our correspondent says, where they have apparently attacked cars.

On edit removed duplicate info from Iterate's post (have to rmember to refresh before posting!)

[Iterate]

80. Tripoli clash update

Gaddafi supporters clash with NTC in Tripoli
Gun battle breaks out in Libyan capital between armed supporters of Gaddafi and forces from the NTC.
Last Modified: 14 Oct 2011 14:55

...
NTC officials said 10 to 15 Gaddafi loyalists have been captured.
...

"Gaddafi told them in a message last night to rise up after Friday prayers," Abdullah, an NTC fighter, said.
"That's why these few people have come out and are causing this problem.

Gaddafi has released a number of audio recordings calling on loyalists to fight the new interim government which ousted him from power when its forces captured Tripoli two months ago.

"I urge all Libyan people to go out and march in their millions in all the squares, in all the cities and villages and oases," he said in one such message earlier this month.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/10/2011101414312833767.html

Looks like it was brief and intense:
4Adam Adam
video #Tripoli - #FF hunting down Gaddafi's loyalists in AbuSalim district. 10.14.11 youtube.com/watch?v=2r7pon… #Libya #Feb17 24 minutes ago

baysontheroad JAMES BAYS
Still tense. Fighters on the street in Abu Salim, #TRIPOLI yfrog.com/khd2esuj ##LIBYA ##AJE 26 minutes ago

Actually, yesterday there were plenty of tweets from the outraged non-Libyans, all claiming events which no one else seems to have witnessed.

****
It's a god-eat-god world for dyslectic pups. Refresh or rewrite. That's why I usually stick to the back country. :toast:

[pinboy3niner]

77. UN says death toll in Syrian uprising tops 3,000

By ZEINA KARAM - Associated Press | AP – 11 mins ago


BEIRUT (AP) — Thousands of Syrian protesters called on soldiers Friday to abandon President Bashar Assad's regime and join a dissident army numbering in the small thousands, as the top U.N. human rights official warned of a "full-blown civil war" in Syria, saying the death toll in the 7-month-old crackdown has passed 3,000.

Security forces opened fire at protesters, killing at least 11, including a 14-year-old boy, in what has become a weekly ritual of protests met by gunfire, according to activists.

Friday's protests, dubbed "Free Soldiers," were in honor of army officers and soldiers who have sided with the protesters and are reportedly clashing with loyalists in northern and central Syrian cities in an increasing militarization of the uprising.

"The army and people are one!" protesters shouted in the southern village of Dael, where most of the deaths occurred Friday. In other locations, some protesters held up banners that read: "Free soldiers do not kill free people asking for freedom."

...


http://news.yahoo.com/un-says-death-toll-syrian-uprising-tops-3-170044800.html

[pinboy3niner]

78. NTC pounds Kadhafi fighters in Sirte, clashes in Tripoli

By Jay Deshmukh and Daphne Benoit | AFP – 46 mins ago


Forces from Libya's new regime launched a fierce assault on two areas of Moamer Kadhafi's hometown of Sirte on Friday, as their comrades clashed with supporters of the fallen strongman in the capital.

The latest offensive in Sirte, aimed at mopping up remaining pockets of stiff resistance, came a day after National Transitional Council (NTC) combatants were forced to withdraw under a hail of withering sniper fire.

At least four people were killed and 46 wounded in Friday's fighting, said a medic at a field hospital in eastern Sirte, Abdulsalam Abdelkani. "All the injuries are sniper shots and bullet wounds."

An AFP correspondent said shortly before 1:00 pm (1100 GMT), a large column of NTC forces, some in trucks and some on foot, pushed out of the central police HQ towards loyalist positions in the Dollar and Number Two districts.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/regime-forces-regroup-sirte-reverse-075011420.html

[pinboy3niner]

79. Summary of today's developments

From Matthew Weaver and Haroon Siddique at The Guardian's Live Blog:

• Gun battles involving Gaddafi loyalists broke out in the capital Tripoli, underlining the continuing instability in the new Libya. Up to 50 pro-Gaddafi fighters were involved in clashes that began in the Abu Salim area but then spread to three other areas of the capital, according to al-Jazeera.


•Several troops loyal to the new government are feared to have been killed in a friendly fire incident in Sirte. Efforts to take the town are being hampered by a lack of communication and inexperience as much as by Gaddafi's forces, according to the Guardian's Peter Beaumont in the city.


• The small area, occupied by Gaddafi's men, has been bombarded by tanks. The plan is to shell for a couple of days and then go for another large assault, says Beaumont, although he suggests they may lose patience. Peter says his sources insist there are only between 100 and 300 Gaddaif loyalists are left fighting for Sirte. The bodies of to 42 bound men, believed to residents of Sirte who refused to fight for Gaddafi, have been found in four different groups.


• One of the sources for reports that Gaddafi's son Mutassim had been captured has backtracked on the announcement. Abdelkarim Bizama, an adviser to Mustafa Abdel Jalil, told AFP: "There was some confusion about the reports of Mutassim's capture. As soon as we have confirmation, there will be an official announcement of his arrest."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/14/libya-muammar-gaddafi#block-25

[pinboy3niner]

81. Tripoli gun battle between pro-, anti-Kadhafi forces: NTC

AFP – 33 mins ago

...


Kadhafi loyalists clashed with several dozen NTC soldiers, who fired at their positions from mounted pick-up trucks.

As journalists arrived at the scene, a young Kadhafi supported shouted: "Allah, Moamer, Libya, that is all!"

Eight people were wounded, NTC fighters among them, sources at the Abu Salim hospital said.

...


Residents said the Abu Salim protest began early afternoon, after Friday prayers, and was prompted by a call to rise from a pro-Kadhafi Libyan television presenter earlier in the week, in a message broadcast on Iraqi TV channel Al-Rai.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/tripoli-gun-battle-between-pro-anti-kadhafi-forces-183252943.html

[tabatha]

82. "To find the $ 2 million in a house in Sirte"

"Found Thoarna brave stationed in Sirte on the amount of money one of the houses, residential area (700) estimated a $ 2 million Libyan dinars, and in dialogue with (Naji Alguenida) A youth who have found this amount has informed us that they are during the Tmsheethm of the neighborhood found that amount in a house , and they found the money buried under the ground while looking for any ammo or the weapon may be found in the house, they noticed that the soil is moving, which indicates the existence of something buried." (Translations)

http://youtu.be/oxF5GGO4ipQ

[pinboy3niner]

83. U.N. rights chief urges 'immediate' international steps to protect Syrians

By the CNN Wire Staff
updated 1:02 PM EST, Fri October 14, 2011


(CNN) -- The top U.N. human rights official deplored the "devastatingly remorseless toll of human lives" in Syria and exhorted the world community on Friday "to take immediate measures" to protect citizens.

"The onus is on all members of the international community to take protective action in a collective and decisive manner, before the continual ruthless repression and killings drive the country into a full-blown civil war," said U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay, in a written statement describing a dire human rights situation in Syria.

Her remarks came as protesters took to the streets Friday in various Syrian cities, a nationwide outpouring supporting the "free army," a reference to personnel who have defected from President Bashar al-Assad's military and to the recently formed Syrian Free Army. At least 12 people were reported dead in the latest protests, according to Syrian Observatory, an activist group.

Pillay said the government has "manifestly failed to protect its population" and has "ignored the international community's calls to cooperate with international investigations," she said.

"At stake are the universal rights to life, liberty and security of person which must never be brushed aside in the interests of realpolitik. The international community must speak with one voice and act to protect the Syrian people."

...


http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/14/world/meast/syria-unrest/index.html?hpt=wo_c2

[pinboy3niner]

84. LIBYAN REVOLUTION DAY 240: CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 12:01 AM SATURDAY, OCTOBER 15

Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, UTC +1 hour, GMT +2 hours

[Prometheus Bound]

85. This is how NATO protects civilians.

The destruction of Sirte


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049108/Libya-wars-stand-Sirte-Pictures-city-shelled-smithereens.html

[mark7sys]

86. Kudos to NATO & the NCT for bending over backwards to get civilians out of Sirte

One little shot-up corner of Sirte is tantamount to “the destruction of Sirte”? You're funny. I like you.

AFAIK, NATO has not been able to or attempted to protect civilians from street fighting in any city in Libya. (With the possible exception of the careful use of the occasional concrete anti-tank bomb within a few cities.) The headline “this is how NATO protects civilians” is humorously non sequitur.

(While we are at it, let's criticize NATO for taking over hospitals, only treating their own injured and making military bases out of them, too. After all, that is no way to treat the civilian population. It's just despicable, that's what!)


Once upon a time (WW II) we found the wholesale firebombing of cities justifiable; I'm grateful that that time has past. The city of Sirte has had a sweetheart deal over the last 4 decades and the city and its civilians have been carefully looked after on this occasion as well. If the goons had allowed families to freely leave, they would have been even better off, still.

If you have a magic formula for clearing the gangsters out of a city without having to fight to do so, I expect there are many people around the globe who would be eager to hear your solution, PB.


(Oh, and thanks for the link. Especially for the pix showing that Sirte is still standing.)

[Prometheus Bound]

87. Welcome to DU.

[Distant Observer]

88. According to BBC almost every building in Sirte has been partially or completely destroyed

Guess after all the killing, the lying is just par for the course

[Prometheus Bound]

91. Yes, I watched that BBC video: "Sirte is being destroyed block by block."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15308065

[mark7sys]

92. I'm from San Francisco, and Sirte is nothing like my idea of a destroyed city

Actually, I am shocked at how good everything looks in the BBC's video.

[joshcryer]

93. Same here, compared to Misrata it's extremely localized.

Misrata was an entire street for several miles, utter destruction (which, btw, and I just spent about 30 minutes looking, the poster in question I can confidently say did not sympathize with once).

[joshcryer]

95. BTW, not sure how long you've been following these threads, but here's comprehensive analyis...

...of the Siege of Misrata: http://shr.aaas.org/geotech/libya/libya.shtml

I have no doubt Sirte is going to get pounded hard by anti-Gaddafi forces, though.

It's like expecting Michael Alexandrovich, Nikolay Alexandrovich and their loyalists to have been treated fairly during the Russian Revolution. Nope, whole groups were killed.

Sorry, but it doesn't work like that.

[tabatha]

97. Gaddafi has won on the killing score - by the thousands and thousands and thousands.

Where were you when that was happening????????????????

Repeat of post above

1) NATO did not do this - the FF did.

2) Unlike Misrata, the FF allowed civilians to flee with ceasefire after ceasefire.

3) The FFs first tried negotiation. The reason that Sirte is like this is because the pro-Gaddafi people refused to leave and refused to surrender.


Where are/were your pictures of Misrata ??

a) When civilians were given NO warnings.

b) There were no ceasefires to allow citizens to leave.

c) Misrata was pelted with grads rockets and cluster bombs for month after month after month

d) Written instructions were found by Gaddafi to not allow food, water, medicine into Misrata.

e) Funny coincidence between Misrata and Sirte - all of the snipers were pro-Gaddafi. Think about that.

[Prometheus Bound]

94. Residents are "gangsters" for fighting to protect their homes and families?

What a curious perspective!

From an AP report

...Many of those fleeing Sirte said that the stiff defense against revolutionary fighters who have been trying to battle their way into Sirte for three weeks is coming not from Gadhafi's military units but from residents themselves, volunteering to take up arms.

"This so-called revolution is not worth it," said Moussa Ahmed, 31, who sat in a line of cars waiting to go through a checkpoint of fighters searching those exiting the city. "But we can't say anything now; when we meet the revolutionaries we have to hide our feelings."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/04/ap/middleeast/main20115223.shtml

[tabatha]

99. Who said gangsters?

These people were given opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to either flee or surrender.

If they wanted to protect their homes they should have surrendered.

All of the other towns and cities in Libya, were taken over by the FFs after consultation with the elders of the town.

Every single one.

The FFs tried very hard to do the same with Bani Walid and Sirte.

But Bani Walid, despite the people in the town wanting to surrender, did not because Saif refused.

If anyone has blood on their hands it is Mutassim. Saif and Muamar.

[Prometheus Bound]

111. Post 86

[mark7sys]

105. What a curious perspective!

Let's see. A family and their cronies forcibly take over a country and rob its resources while leaving many of the nation's outsiders in squalor. In order to maintain control of this breathtakingly huge ill-gained treasure, the “King of Kings”, et al., impose brutal repression the likes of which would make others of their ilk (Idi Amin Dada, Saloth Sar, Hitler and so on) proud. Their intrusive monitoring system and suppression of the Imazighen would make the SS proud. They spend the resources of the nation lavishly on themselves and also use it to promote terrorism and subversion and instability elsewhere around the world. These activities I am pleased to refer to as “gangsterism”. You think it amounts to something else? What do you call it?

I'm sure some dead-enders think their best bet is to fight rather than to submit to any kind of accountability for their actions (and may well be correct in thinking so). And I suppose there are some misguided families who hold that those families that safely leave Sirte are (somehow) not 'protecting their families' (although the logic certainly escapes me). For that matter, I rather doubt that fighting from one's home is a very good / logical strategy for 'protecting their homes', either.

Admittedly, I may misunderstand the situation completely. Correct me if I'm wrong: the dead-enders in Sirte are fighting for Gaddafi's homes and Gaddafi's family. On the other hand, the “civilians” of the nation, of whom you speak – the people we would like to see NATO protect – are fighting not merely for family and home but to take possession of their own lives and country. Does there exist some rationale by which they have no right to do so?

[Distant Observer]

113. You do miss-understand,. Nothing you say reflects the 40 year history.

Before the latest Western intervention there were several opposing factions in power struggle. There was never the kind of bloodshed and hatreds spawned by the current NATO-backed war.

The wealth of Libya was likely more justly distributed tham in any of the Arab Kingdoms and Emirates that the US currently supports.

[mark7sys]

114. Wow. I am all astonishment.

nt

[tabatha]

115. Have you spoken to any Libyans about wealth disitribution?

You are sadly misinformed.

"Muammar al-Gaddafi rules Libya as a police state and is considered by many in the world community to be mad. He oppresses his citizens through poverty, despite great oil wealth, and oppresses the basic civil rights of all citizens outside his inner circle." wiki

[joshcryer]

89. Another pic:

[tabatha]

96. You statement is incorrect.

1) NATO did not do this - the FF did.

2) Unlike Misrata, the FF allowed civilians to flee with ceasefire after ceasefire.

3) The FFs first tried negotiation. The reason that Sirte is like this is because the pro-Gaddafi people refused to leave and refused to surrender.

Where are/were your pictures of Misrata

a) When civilians were given NO warnings.

b) There were no ceasefires to allow citizens to leave.

c) Misrata was pelted with grads rockets and cluster bombs.

d) Written instructions were found by Gaddafi to not allow food, water, medicine into Misrata.

e) Funny coincidence between Misrata and Sirte - all of the snipers were pro-Gaddafi. Think about that.

[Prometheus Bound]

118. No, NATO and its minions are destroying Sirte.

[Prometheus Bound]

90. In the chaos of Sirte, anti-Gaddafi fighters are killing each other

In the chaos of Sirte, anti-Gaddafi fighters are killing each other

Fight for last uncaptured ground made more deadly by Libyan government forces' rivalries and inexperience
guardian.co.uk, Friday 14 October 2011 18.06 BST

.....Without proper communications and a dangerous rivalry between the forces from Misrata on the pocket's southern and western fronts, and fighters from Benghazi and the towns to the east, those fighting Gaddafi's soldiers are killing each other in increasing numbers.

Eastern soldiers said three men they lost on Thursday in an attempt to assault the pocket were killed by Misratan fire. Shells and mortars misfired or falling short have killed others while crossfire is commonplace.

.....Blame has fallen on "weekend fighters", who are unwilling to go forward and fire from behind their colleagues towards their backs, or inexperienced government troops, who lack the ability to accurately aim their mortar batteries or are ignorant of their targets.

The randomness of the government fighter's fire was underlined on Friday at a battery made up of odds and ends of improvised rocket systems, a recoilless rifle, anti-aircraft guns and an armoured carrier parked on a rise a few hundred metres from the pocket's southern edge. The Guardian watched rockets from a homemade system on a pickup truck fly in wildly different directions and distances.

"I've had too many friends die in this fucking city," said Mhjurb Ibrahim, a lawyer from Misrata. "Twenty-two of them have died. Five in the first day of the fighting."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/14/sirte-fighters-shoot-own-side

[tabatha]

98. They have since changed tactics.

These fighters are not trained. They are ordinary citizens. They voluntarily took up arms against Gaddafi. Their performance has been astounding. If you think that mistakes do not happen in war, then you are very ignorant.

Why are you on these thread only posting anti-FF stuff. I have never seen you post anything pro-FF.

Unlike the rest of us who post both pro- and anti-.

If you are here to post anti-FF stuff to "teach us a lesson", then you are wasting your time.

We have agonized over the positive and negative for seven months.

Here you come in the last throws gloating over the failure of the FFs.

It is an insult to all those who have given their lives to be free.

[tabatha]

100. Destruction on Tripoli Street Misrata

[joshcryer]

102. Oh tab, you took the bait.

It's a nice rebuttal but, it assumes that the people making these statements actually care about the Libyan people, they don't.

[tabatha]

104. No, the hypocrisy is sickening.

[tabatha]

101. Scenes of destruction - Misurata main street(Tripoli Street) 6-April-2011 Libya

http://youtu.be/1NdtHShwYgU

[tabatha]

103. Misrata: Life inside Libya's besieged city

http://teakdoor.com/1736825-post1470.html


Burnt out: Wrecked cars are seen next to a plume of black smoke in the port of Misrata yesterday

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1381068/Hundreds-dead-bodies-streets-city-reduced-rubble-Full-horror-Misrata-siege-finally-emerges.html#ixzz1aomnMGNA

[joshcryer]

106. Qaddafi-Era Flag Is Said to Have Set Off Gunfire in Tripoli

http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20111014/ZNYT03/110143032/1042/news?Title=Qaddafi-Era-Flag-Is-Said-to-Have-Set-Off-Gunfire-in-Tripoli">Qaddafi-Era Flag Is Said to Have Set Off Gunfire in Tripoli
Hundreds of anti-Qaddafi militiamen converged on several neighborhoods of Tripoli on Friday, firing heavy weapons on residential streets in a rare outburst of violence that may have started with demonstrations in support of the deposed leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.

There were reports of gun battles between Qaddafi loyalists and former rebel fighters, though it was not clear who started the fighting. Adam Ahmed, an anti-Qaddafi fighter, said he and his colleagues had come under fire on Friday afternoon after responding to reports that loyalists were trying to raise Colonel Qaddafi’s green flag. At least seven armed men were arrested, he said, including one who was carrying a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

If confirmed, the protests would represent the boldest attempt by loyalist elements to assert their presence in the capital since its capture in late August. The violence that followed underscored Tripoli’s still-combustible mix of armed militias with no central command, patrolling a city growing weary of their presence.

Paid provocateurs, most likely.

[tabatha]

107. I read that story and did not believe it.

October 14th was supposed to be when millions of Gaddafi forces were supposed to rise up against the NTC. Some did, not many.

There is a Tripoli Festival tomorrow - I hope two things, there is adequate security and that there is no celebratory gunfire

[joshcryer]

108. I think it's likely that it happened due to the Oct. 15 Tripoli Festival. They don't want...

...positive news to happen, the Green Flag Fascists are just dwindling from existence, hard for them to keep holding on.

[tabatha]

109. More Sirte pictures

The pro-Gaddafi fighters are in a very small area of Sirte.



Not all buildings have been smashed to smithereens.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049108/Libya-wars-stand-Sirte-Pictures-city-shelled-smithereens.html?ITO=1490

[joshcryer]

110. Week 34 part 4 here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2120863

[Prometheus Bound]

112. By the way, does anyone notice anything odd about Angelina Jolie's handshake in the OP pic?

[tabatha]

116. She has not completely closed her hand.

Maybe it was the timing of the photo.

[Prometheus Bound]

117. Gaddafi home town largely destroyed

Gaddafi home town largely destroyed
By Mary Beth Sheridan, Sunday, October 16, 4:09 AM

SIRTE, Libya — After weeks of intense fighting, Moammar Gaddafi’s home town appeared Saturday to have been largely destroyed, with most of its population fled and holes the size of manhole covers blown in apartment buildings and the ousted leader’s showcase convention center.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/gaddafi-home-town-largely-destroyed/2011/10/15/gIQApLojmL_story.html