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OPERATION COOPTATION: THE DEMS TRY TO SEDUCE THE OCCUPATION MOVEMENT

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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 08:19 AM
Original message
OPERATION COOPTATION: THE DEMS TRY TO SEDUCE THE OCCUPATION MOVEMENT

OPERATION COOPTATION: THE DEMS TRY TO SEDUCE THE OCCUPATION MOVEMENT

If the Occupy Wall Street phenomenon were to collapse tomorrow, it will have already greatly advanced the struggle against the rule of finance capital, simply by virtue of having pointed out that Wall Street does, indeed, rule. For the general, white American public, from which the initiators of the movement spring, the idea that finance capital utterly dominates every mechanism of societal power, is felt as a kind of revelation. The relatively sudden intrusion, historically speaking, of this elemental fact of life under the current order, which was thrust so painfully into the collective consciousness by the meltdown of 2008 and the great “betrayals” that followed in such swift and stunning succession, threatens to detonate like a social bomb. The explosive human device has implanted itself in the very “belly of the beast” – politically, figuratively and, in the case of the New York City encampment, literally.

snip

The Lords of Capital understand they are at peril – or, more accurately, they employ legions of people in all social sectors and both major parties (and plenty of better camouflaged political groupings) who are well compensated to figure out such situations for them, and to respond accordingly. The cooptation offensive is in full swing, commissioned from the very top of the Democratic Party, which is determined to claim the Occupation movement as its own.

African Americans are the indispensable ingredient in any genuine U.S. progressive movement. Historically, Blacks are the constituency that is most opposed to war and to concentrations of economic power, most eager to join unions, most concerned with issues of elemental social justice, and the most aggrieved in good times and bad. That African Americans were initially slow to join the occupations can be explained by the white organizers’ shallow contacts with Blacks. But a much more serious challenge looms. The Democrats, who are as wedded to Wall Street money as the GOP, know full well that any significant crack in the “Black Wall” around Obama will mean defeat in 2012. And they are aware that historical Black progressivism and distrust of Power has been effectively short-circuited by the advent of the First Black President. That’s why African Americans are prime targets of the Democrats’ cooptation response, along with the heavily overlapping union constituency.

The goal, of course, is to keep the attentions of African Americans and unionists focused on the Republicans and their Tea Party annex, as opposed to Wall Street, with which the administration has been intimately entwined from day-one. Therefore, the Democrats are the most clear and present danger to the Occupation Movement, because their entire purpose is to negate the central message: that Wall Street controls both parties, all three branches of government, and most social discourse in the United States. Republicans growl on the sidelines about “mobs” and “anti-Americanism,” with little effect. But the Democrats aim to divert the movement into nonexistence, to reduce it to (warmed over) Obama groupies and snuff out its potential in the bud.

http://blackagendareport.com/content/operation-cooptation-dems-try-seduce-occupation-movement
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. Get on board or get out the way.
Running parallel is good but they best not try to jump the track. We've all been there and done that and it's a bonafide deadend.

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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
36. +1!
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. All these co-opting scare articles and OPs are silly and irrelevant.
OWS has a built in filter. Is something you are advocating going to benefit the 99% or the 1%.

If it is going to benefit the 99%, you should be supported. If not, you should be opposed. Same thing if you are a Democrat, Green, Socialist, Conservative, Tea Partier, etc.

The filter is going to filter out most Conservative and Tea Party initiatives in general.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I don't believe there is such a rule
you could say that putting all their energy into re-electing Obama "benefits the 99%", because it would be better than Romney, but this movement is not going to do that.

As the article points out, the movement is a fundamental critique of Wall Street. It's not just an arbirtrary rule such as you put out there.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Two points. First, the entire framing of OWS is about supporting the 99%
If you are doing things in support of the 99% over the top 1% you are in step with them.

Second, I dont think OWS has made any decisions at all about supporting individual candidates and I am not sure they should support individual candidates.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. 99% is a slogan, it's not something they're going to base their decisions on
This article discusses whether OWS endorsed the "March for Jobs", which is essentially a Democratic Party event. This article claims they did not endorse it, the Danny Schecter article claims that they did endorse it.

I don't know which is the truth, but the decision wouldn't have been as simple as you say. They wouldn't have asked, "will this help the 99%", they would ask whether their endorsement furthers the movement's ends or does it detract from it?
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I'm going to OWS again this weekend at least once if not both days. I will ask...
and put the speculation about these kinds of things to rest.

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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. let me guess what you find
you will report back, "the OWS believes the best way to help the 99% is to elect more dems to Congress so they can help Obama implement a progressive agenda."

And I will respond, yes, more dems in Congress would be better for the 99%, and re-electing Obama would be better for the 99% than electing Romney, but neither of those is what OWS is about, whether you tell me that, or Howard Dean does, or Al Gore, or Al Sharpton, or anyone else on MSNBC including Rachel Maddow, or whoever. OWS is about Wall Street influence, and we see their influence in the Democratic Party.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Actually, I will get it on video. Or will you claim the video is edited?
First of all, I doubt anyone from OWS would say such a thing as you suggest (or suggest that I would suggest). I think they will confirm that they are about the 99%.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Looks like the far left is getting anxious that their message is being rejected by
the OWS.

Looks like they are too smart to fall for Troskyite bullshite.

They also know that they have more common fences with Democrats than the Far Right that is currently masquerading as the Republican Party.

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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Who is nervous?

Seems like it is the Democratic Party, perhaps anxious that their monopoly on 'alternative to Republicans' is starting to crack.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. So that's why the polling for Democrats is getting stronger?
You need a reality check, that failed religion you subscribe to is deader than disco, and the kids at OWS know it.


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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. How is polling for Socialism doing?
:shrug:

Anyone know?
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
50. Religion? Your ignorance is showing.


Science and logic got nothing to do with the metaphysical.

You might try a little historical perspective, it took capitalism, from it's humble beginnings is chartered medieval cities about 600 years to overthrow the feudal order. We have hardly gotten started.
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a simple pattern Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
79. They weren't a very good alternative, after all.
If they had been, we wouldn't be where we are, would we?
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. You get your choices...

just like in 3 card monte.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Is it going to filter out neoliberal Democrats? nt
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
62. What if OWS decides that what benefits the 99% is not supporting either of the two major parties and
beginning a start-up party?
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #62
70. Not something we are allowed to advocate here - -
but obviously, theoretically, anything is possible.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. I'm not saying it should be advocated, but playing devil's advocate, it's a thought that
should be explored, but people keep dancing around it or completely ignoring it.

At some point, OWS is going to need to decide whether or not to try work within the Democratic party, or outside of it.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. Maybe OWS will let the Democrats or Republicans come to them
Maybe?

:shrug:
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
64. "The filter is going to filter out most Conservative and Tea Party initiatives" - wrong..
There are a lot of folks who identify as "conservative" in this country - it's almost as if it's become the cool lifestyle choice in many (often rural) areas. That does not mean those folks identify with trust fund babies.

We need to be as inclusive as possible to bring in ALL workers, no matter how they come down on social issues. With this movement we are focusing on economics and we need to include everyone in the 99% - and not "filter" folks out because we don't like which political party they vote for.

In fact, most of the folks we really need to reach don't vote at all.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. "We need to be as inclusive as possible ..."
And that will be the downfall of the movement. Social issues and economic issues are not mutually exclusive, in fact, they often go hand in hand.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #66
69. Politics=Economics
the social issues are the way the wealthy have very successfully split us into two factions at war with each other. If we ever let the social issues go and just focus on economics it will be the day we are able to change things in favor of the poor.

Rich folks on both sides of the aisle (and their minions) will not willingly let this happen because they have a lot to lose. Which side are you on?

http://youtu.be/mwFN9f8q5g0
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. Alright, let's take a social issue and tell me how you plan to split the economics from it.
Climate change.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #71
73. You are missing the point - take care of the economics and the rest takes care of itself. nt
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. No, you're missing the point. For arguments sake, I will play devil's advocate.
I say that climate change is a natural phenomenon and nothing we will do will change it. My livelihood depends on drilling, and if you want to go green energy and get rid of fossil fuels, then I will be out of a job.

This is a perfect example of how the social and economical are perfectly intertwined. Give me any social issue and I can show you how it's married to the economical.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. We can go back and forth saying "no you are" but that does not advance the conversation -
the fact is that capitalism puts profit before people and interjects the quest for profit into everything. Do you think a rich woman wonders whether she will be able to get an abortion?

You and other minions will continually try to mask that as much as possible to keep people divided, because you profit from it.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. The point is, at some point OWS needs to take a stand on social issues, otherwise it flameout
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 11:05 AM by Exilednight
when the social issues take hold. Right is right and wrong is wrong. I understand that not everything is black and white, but many social issues can be broken down into black and white. There is no doubt that climate change is real and that it is man-made. The fact is, someone is going to have to pony up the money and invest in green energy alternatives.

As far as your abortion example goes, rich women don't get abortions.

Black women are three times more likely to have an abortion and Hispanic women are twice as likely to have an abortion.

33% of all women who have abortions are between the age of 20 and 24.

66% of women who have abortions are not married.

60% of women who have abortions already have 1 or more children.

73% of women who have abortions are living below the poverty level (earning $9,570 or less per year).

75% of women who have abortion cite lack of money to raise a child as one of their reasons for having an abortion.

27% of women who have abortions cite "unexpected sex or rape" as the reason for their pregnancy.


Every social issue is intertwined with economics.

The problem I have with the movement is that I am not sure what their goal is in terms of economics. Is it to knock down the top 1%, or to create equality for the other 99%.

Edit: Allow me to clear this up a bit, this could easily be misinterpreted. I'm not saying that top 1% should be forced to give something up, but the main goal should be to lift up the 99%, not knock down the top 1%.

I'm hoping it's the later, and not the former.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. "As far as your abortion example goes, rich women don't get abortions" lol
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: ; Ok, let's skip the silliness and get right to your real question -

"The problem I have with the movement is that I am not sure what their goal is in terms of economics. Is it to knock down the top 1%, or to create equality for the other 99%?"

That is a fair question and cuts right to the heart of it. I can't speak for the folks in the movement - I can only speak for myself. The goal is economic equality. My own household income happens to be pretty high, therefore any sort of change (ie taxes or whatever) could be seen as "knocking down". But I've never cared about having more money than other folks (maybe because I grew up without it). My goal is to see as many people as possible have a decent living - housing, health care, education, employment. Not only myself but everyone else as well. Sure I work hard - but so do most people. My personal opinion is that we should all be guaranteed a minimum standard of living - we shouldn't have folks who are homeless or die for lack of health care for example. But as I said that's just my personal opinion, ymmv.




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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. Good point.

'Conservative' as a social statement does not necessarily translate to a conservative political agenda, particularly when the results of conservative politics are coming at you like a speeding truck.

But what happens when those supposedly the diametric opposite of conservatives, the liberal party, is imposing similar hardships though with different rhetoric? Then it is time for a different perspective, working class analysis.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
11. K & R.
Edited on Fri Oct-14-11 10:48 AM by chill_wind
Sharpton is one shrewd, calculating partisan hack for Obama. Not to be underestimated.

In the comments section is a link to a Paul Street piece on the 1%. He says things that much or most of the OWS movement already know, but as well, things Sharpton would probably never admit in any simple summary. Not on M$NBC night after night, anyway. Other than hammering on the tea-baggers.


Occupy Wall Street at the Hub of Global Hypocrisy
Wednesday, October 12, 2011

http://www.zcommunications.org/occupy-wall-street-at-the-hub-of-global-hypocrisy-by-paul-street
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
15. OWS is more then a movement now...pass it on.
Edited on Fri Oct-14-11 11:56 AM by Rex
Sorry, the whole thing has gone viral...out of control for the political mind puppets. It is too far gone now, more then a rally or movement. We are past political parties...this is the PEOPLES party and I LOVE the fact it scares the crap out of the established here on DU and elsewhere. Time for things to CHANGE...sorry if you can't handle it. Here it comes...
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. Several weeks in and still no anti-Obama signs. Never seen anything like it
I guess that's the 'built-in filter' they're talking about

:eyes:

K&R
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. There absolutely were some anti-Obama signs. See the video I uploaded
Edited on Fri Oct-14-11 01:11 PM by stevenleser
Again, that is not the point.

I see lots of people projecting onto OWS what they would like it to be instead of what it is.

It's really simple. If you put forth policies that benefit the 99%, those policies are going to be embraced regardless of who you are.

OWS does not exist to provide some groups on the left ammunition to pursue their vendettas against other people or groups on the left or folks on the left they dont think are left enough. If anything, it is meant as a unifying force for the left, but unifying behind the desire to focus on policies that benefit the 99%.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Do you have any videos of Obama's 'policies that benefit the 99%' ?
Thanks
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Videos of policies? Is that like the taste of a color? I can give you examples of policies.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Tax cuts, more tax cuts, ouch payroll tax cut...HOLY SHIT volunteer labor??!!
Are you fucking kidding me?

A new “Bridge to Work” program: The plan builds on and improves innovative state programs where those displaced take temporary, voluntary work or pursue on-the-job training.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. You're reduced to playing the reactionary game of mischaracterizing programs now? Is that where you
are?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. It says it right there
:shrug:

And they dare to call it 'Bridge' to work

A WPA style Jobs Program would start rebuilding actual bridges
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. If you think members are promoting right wing ideas here, you should alert
Bottom left of the posts
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Tactic, not idea. nt
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Oh. So are there any other links to Obama's policies that benefit the 99%?
But don't do the Bridge to Tax Cuts and Volunteer Labor one
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Let's agree to how many you want beforehand this time. How many is it?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. All the ones that would send the OWSers home feeling victorious
Take your time
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #44
57. "All the ones" Ya, I expected as much. nt
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. When are you going to call him a "bigot against the rich"?
:rofl: :hi:
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. When are you going to address what people are actually saying instead of inventing straw men?
:rofl:
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. That's what you actually said though. Before it was deleted by the mods.
:hi:
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Are you on hallucinogens or something? There are no deleted messages under this OP!
:rofl:
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Why are some posters shocked when posts they made as long as (gasp!) a week ago are remembered?
My guess is YOU have forgotten your little "bigot against the rich!" outburst (long since deleted by the mods.) I haven't. :hi:
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. You forgot where you outed yourself as a paid member of Boehner's staff in a post long since deleted
by the mods. I haven't

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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. I renounce John Boehner now and forever. You still cling to the "don't be bigoted against the rich!"
schtick. That's why your fabrication can't stick to me the way the truth sticks to you. :hi:
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. Ah, its fine to do that under an assumed name but you refuse to quit your job working for Boehner.
We all know your game now!
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. Also pretty telling that you chose to deflect/mud sling rather than deny the truth.
:hi:
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #47
56. If its true, provide a link nt
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. oh
I missed that.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. Everytime this poster posts, lets remind people of that! nt
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. Your schtick is both bizarre and comical. I would alert, but better to let this stand.
I may have to refer back to it later! :hi:
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #54
83. Kinda like every time you post, you remind people you're a partisan hack?
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #17
65. I saw one anti-Obama sign in pictures of a San Francisco march -
and that is the only one I have seen in all the footage I've looked at.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. First step for the Democratic party - renounce Reaganomics.
Or is Step 1 admitting they have a problem in that they still believe it works?
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. I think the proposal of an additional 5.6% tax on people earning a million or above is a step
in that direction.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. The real disparity is in wealth, not income.
High wage earners and the wealthy are two different things. The wealthy don't earn wages-- they're about capital gains. Those rates are through the floor and no one in government wants to touch that.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. +1
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #41
67. Lowering taxes on capital gains -
That is the thing that makes rich folks so happy with Junior - he did that. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States)
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
82. Clueless as always.
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 06:23 PM by girl gone mad
This movement is not about small increases in income taxes.

If Obama immediately dumps Geithner and the rest of the Wall Street cronies, apologizes for allowing the Wall Street pillage and throws the fraudsters in jail, shuts the fuck up about austerity and starts promoting shared prosperity, turns his back on the rest of his shitty neoliberal agenda.. then he might have a prayer next year.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. Good luck on that

Whatever flavor of Capitalism is in vogue, and the differences are water coloring, the party will be for it.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #22
63. Step 2 is renouncing Rubinomics and tossing out his cronies. n/t
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. Needs to go the other way around
We need OWS to Occupy the Democratic Party for a few years. That just might give us the "change we can believe in".
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. OWS's ideas are in the process of occupying the Democratic Party.
That is in fact what is happening.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Dream on
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Funny someone calling themselves 'Deaniac' would say so considering we saw Howard Dean's
Edited on Fri Oct-14-11 01:30 PM by stevenleser
brother at OWS on Saturday. We talked about stuff like this.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
53. Deaniac21
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
59. Lash out at everyone! They're ALL enemies!
:wow: :silly:
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
46. Great start! Needs to last through November 2012 though
Not just November 2011 -- although I'll be impressed if that happens.

Such things take a Long Time to bear fruit, unfortunately, and we're on a tight schedule. The GOPers got a 30-year head start on us this time, and we're about a year away from some significant electoral setbacks unless the Democrats get Active in a Big Way.

e.g. GOTV begins no later than April in any state where the teabaggers have managed to seriously fuck with voters' eligibility. I don't know that the local Democratic parties are prepared for this impending shitstorm. Even if they are, the voters themselves in those states have to do a lot more than just sign the paper to get the required ID and I'm betting a lot of 'em won't dance through an intricate documentation ballet at the DMV for a lackluster slate of corporate cronies and faceless insiders.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
52. Ah, new window treatments......

can't hide what's inside.
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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
84. Yeah, it's so evident in their "down with jobs, up with free trade" voting.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
60. kick
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
61. Recommended.
Great OP/thread. There are a lot of interesting things to consider here.

OWS is distinct from the Democratic Party; yet there is an obvious overlap: many OWS folks are Democrats. There are also Democrats who are not of the OWS movement, and who will seek to exploit it for $ and votes.

What is needed is a state that brings about what King called "creative tension." For it is at that point, or at that level, that progress can begin to be instituted. "Creative tension" demands communication; it also demands that we understand that OWS is not the Democratic Party.

Likewise, the OWS will have overlap with other groups, such as the Green Party; labor unions; etc. In fact, in time, OWS will enjoy communications with growing segments of republicans, and even Tea Partiers. Again, with a goal of creative tension, necessary for progress.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
78. Obama will NOT own OWS!
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
85.  GOOD!! It will be even more encouraging when we see Republicans actively court the OWS movement
the way many Republicans of an earlier era reached out to unions, the civil rights movement and other progressive forces.

If the Democrats or any mainstream bastions of power see the need to appeal to the OWS movement that is a VERY, VERY positive sign that the movement is genuinely being taken seriously. Roosevelt did not start out as some flaming pro-union liberal. He embraced the labor movement when it was too strong to ignore. The Democratic Party of the early 1960's was still full of southern segregationist dreaming of slavery's return - but the civil rights leadership was politically practical enough to welcome the support of Democrats and the Democratic Party leadership who could no longer afford to ignore the civil rights movement.

As wretched as the Democratic Party is these days - there is no other political vehicle available. There is absolutely no realistic prospect of any other vehicle becoming available.

If this wonderful new movement sustains and grows as I think it will - at some point there will be a need to translate their agenda into specific political legislation and policy. That is what people want, isn't it?
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